void race on betfair

they said it wasnt noticed for 90 mins

betfair twitter says on sportsbook , paying out on fyre cry but bets on princess mandarin still stand?

yep it's as clear as mud

Do somethibg right for once Betfair

Surely they either pay out on first past post, or pay out on 1st & 2nd or void race?

Everyone who have been betting for a while, know the rules. You can argue the rules need changing but you can't change the rules retrospectively.

For betting purposes the result stands. Skybet are paying out on the first two. That is their choice.
The winner will be disqualified and placed last at Portman Square.

Thinking about it, the winner will be disqualified but isn't forced to be even placed last because he shouldn't have run in the first place.

my knowledge isn't great but for a trainer to put a saddle on a worn in 3 year old instead of an unraced 2 year old, I am gobsmacked.

then for that horse to be paraded in the paddock and nobody noticed, not even the head lead/lass, again gobsmacked.

the horse not to be scanned prior to leaving the saddling enclosure, thrice smacks of my gob.

Millies Kiss should now be banned from all racetracks for invading the race course during the 1st at Yarmouth.

For betting purposes the result has to stand if they weighed in.

That is the definitive line where there is no going back.

What happens next week if the new winner fails it's drug test, will you want paid on the 3rd.

I laid the horse that finished third so don't want race to be void.

They can either:

1 leave the result as it is;
2 declare the "winner" a NR and pay out on second horse (the fav);
3 void the race

IMO "2" is the fairest outcome.  Absurdly, according to BF rules, it has to be "1" as the jockey weighed in and results can't be amended afterwards, for whatever reason.

Voler la vedette weighed in and punters didnt get paid!!!!!

Betd** paid out IR on VLV., see your point though.

Betfair Help‏Verified account @BetfairCS 3m3 minutes ago

We have now fully settled the 13:40 at Yarmouth on the Exchange following the statement from the BHA. 1/2


Betfair Help‏Verified account @BetfairCS 3m3 minutes ago

This has now been settled on the official result at the time of the 'weigh-in' announcement (or equivalent) as per our Exchange rules. 2/2
0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes

So most bookies including BF Sportsbook and Paddy Power(who are also voiding all losers) are paying out on the Horse that was not there and the Fav.
Funny that BF(owned by PP) can't do something similar or at least void all bets.
As i backed the Fav i am biased of course lol

Flockton Grey weighed In but the bookmakers did not pay out on him..  What is the difference please?

Ridiculous
Common sense out the window

Flockton Grey was obvious From minor trainer, he won by 20 lengths and was well backed off course ringing alarm bells.

so to summarise this fred. 

i backed the fav it has to be void,
i layed the fav can't see anything wrong with it ....

right guys this is where i am,, i backed the second in the 1,40 yarmouth today ,, and have just been refunded my stake,,but not with betfair exchangs,, with 1 of the others.

u can light your cigs with the exchange

should have been paid as winner a lot of firms have

happy with the refund

must agree with big boss
surely there must be a huge difference betwwen the look of an unraced 2 year old and a ten race 3 year old including only 2 weeks ago..the trainers an idiot

Results on Betfair Exchange will not be altered.  They have settled in accordance with their rules.  Whether you think the rules are fair or not is another matter, but you knew the drill (or should have) when you placed your bets.

Bookmakers refunding stakes on the 2nd past the post are doing so as a gesture of good will out of their own pocket.  Betfair Exchange cannot do this, as it is not their money to do so with.

why can other exchanges do it then

If this race is not voided, it leaves racing open to corruption

Jul 27, 2017 -- 8:15PM, Rob_The_Bantam wrote:

Results on Betfair Exchange will not be altered.  They have settled in accordance with their rules.  Whether you think the rules are fair or not is another matter, but you knew the drill (or should have) when you placed your bets.Bookmakers refunding stakes on the 2nd past the post are doing so as a gesture of good will out of their own pocket.  Betfair Exchange cannot do this, as it is not their money to do so with.

You seem to be wasting your time explaining.

Some still unable grasp the concept of an exchange.

westdag  .. its an exchange that has refunded my bet on the second,

not betfair though

betfair need not void the race merely pay out the loers out of their profits as a goodwill gesture that is merely what the bookmakers are doing

its an exchange that has refunded my bet on the second,

And what do that particular Exchange's rules say?

Rob fair point re rules,you can look at Volers  glitch or whatever, but the weigh in rule went out the window then simply because it cost betfair money.

Although it is an extreme example.  If exchanges had been around when flockton grey won... based on betfair's stance gere.. the cheats would have got away with the money scott free.

what rule did they use tovoid bets re the Voler race ?

As far as i remember "The dealer" they blamed it on a bot gone wrong and the person hadn't the money in his account.

ta

The one that suited them best, dealer.  They had a rule that said "all bets stand, regardless of errors" and another that said "bets are void if there's a technical error".  They chose "void".  If they'd paid out on Voler it would've have cost them big money because the punter who "lost" that bet didn't have the money in his account to pay it.

ta again

I'm not a "racing" man but surely, if you've got a 2yo making its racecourse debut, someone who knows the horse well will be on course, watching it closely, to see how it handles things?  All very strange ...

Jul 27, 2017 -- 8:30PM, cardenden wrote:

westdag

As i said before to their eternal credit the da* paid(pre laddies)

Jul 27, 2017 -- 8:30PM, cardenden wrote:

westdag

cardenden • July 27, 2017 8:30 PM BST
westdag  .. its an exchange that has refunded my bet on the second,

Do you reckon if you were the layer at 999-1 they would've refunded that?

If it's Betfair it ain't the Exchange,has to be the Sportsbook.

I watched ATR coverage today and also my recording of the whole event from parade ring and especially the after-race coverage.
The really suspicious thing for me is that after the race there were at least 3 owners,a stable girl,and the trainer.
I'm not having it that none of these people thought there was something unfamiliar about the horse.
Henry Cecil would go on the Newmarket gallops with over 60 horse and could identify them all from 100 yards,so something needs investigating starting with the trainer.

i think everyone would love to see a picture of both horses side by side.

Of course if we had a proper trade newspaper, they'd have cameraman and reporter on site before first lot.  Still you never know.

I would be amazed if John Egan who must have rode 3000 horses, did not spot this was not a 2yo filly.

Yes dealer, if there are any flecks of white on either horse, then that would be really strange.

Should be a bit of a difference between an unraced 2yo and a 3yo handicapper, honest mistake or not.

didnt realise so many clueless people gambled.

cringeworthy.

betfair need not void the race merely pay out the loers out of their profits as a goodwill gesture that is merely what the bookmakers are doing

Sure the shareholders would be delighted to have their cash dished out for no good reason.

I think the "real" horse would've won anyway imo

equine

not really Egans job to question wether its the right horse or not

Bookies have shareholders too and they are showing goodwill..please explain difference please

Are you talking about the Exchange or Sportsbook?

wrong horse ran, doesnt matter about the weigh in,,  all stakes should be returned,,END OFF

And how do you get those stakes & winnings back from your fellow peers hours later?

Should last week's void at Killarney which has now been overturned now be re-settled?

I can sort of see how the wrong horse could go to post, but how did the trainers and connections not see it was the wrong horse when it came back to the winners enclosure? Do you think they decided to stay stum & not say anything & hope it wasn't routinely doped tested? That seems the strange part of it all to me and where questions should be asked.

What actually happened here?

Read the thread with interest but can only discern part of the story, something along the lines of:

A trainer ran one horse using the name of another or horse was withdrawn but ran anyway?

What happened?

https://www.racingpost.com/news/yarmouth-fiasco/drama-as-wrong-horse-wins-ra...

A different horse (3yo) ran in a 2yo race and won, the majority of the betfair forum think thats okay as they "weighed in".

Betfair think it is right and fair,

I sheeete you not, you couldn't make it up. (no financial interest myself)

Voler La Vedette is a very important precedent here. Betfair did what they liked then.

They will do the same here, 5% commission on whatever,a greedy,greedy company, a rare occurence but pure common sense to void everything,even if it did cost them something, people backing the fav never knew they were up against a 3yo.
Nothing right morally in collecting that commission.

Thanks for info.



Looking at yesterdays PnL I can see I lost ££££lots laying Mandarin Princess, reading the RP website they're saying
that Millies Kiss won the race.

I was suspicious at the time because the bookmaker price was 50/1 and the BFSP was 60, which is a tiny premium to the normal
industry-Betfair differences at those kind of odds.

Somebody new.

guessing I'm not going to get a refund of the money I've been cheated out of.

other exchange refunded stakes on loosers

name?

I don't believe any exchange would refund stakes.

I don't understand why the exchange bets aren't voided?

1) Mandarin Princess did not win the race, regardless of the weigh in or any other 'paper work', it simply didn't win.

2) Betfair have a record of voiding markets "in the interests of fairness", why are they abandoning the moral high ground here?

Escapee, agree with you totally. This situation is not like a normal weigh in. Betfair really do have to do something in this instance.

Like what? Raid peoples' bank accounts?

They've resettled plenty of races in the past. They can also make ex-gratia payments.

What 3 hours later?



What happens to winnings which were subsequently gambled?

Yes,re what happens to winnings subsequently gambled, fair point,the minus deficit could go on an account or better still leeway could be shown or simply just hand in the pocket time like nearly every other bookmaker has done.

The crux point is as said above Mandarin Prince didn't win. You cannot defend that.

pa lapsy    28 Jul 17 20:10 
Yes,re what happens to winnings subsequently gambled, fair point,the minus deficit could go on an account or better still leeway could be shown or simply just hand in the pocket time like nearly every other bookmaker has done.



The exchange layers are not bookmakers.

Wesdag, they can make ex-gratia payments as late as they want. And yes they have already resettled races after other races have taken place so your post is irrelevant.

I understand that Sparrow,however the system of just collecting commission has hit a moral "brick wall",rather than just collect,collect collect there has to be an allowance for special circumstances,this is one.

asparagus,

You seem not to understand how an exchange works.

For every loser yesterday, there was a winner.

Try to just take it on the chin.

Btw, should they re-settle last week's race at Killarney which was voided but has since been overturned?

Bookmakers make these concessions simply to promote their business. I'm sure Betfair have refunded the sportsbook customers but the exchange is a completely different situation.

I'd say that would only be true to an extent Sparrow(promoting business), they did the "right" thing anyway imo and v quickly as well.

So why you here pa?

Bookies seem to be the way ahead?

fck knows Wesdag.just sociable i suppose.

never a dull moment

'For every winner there is a loser on exchanges' and vice versa.
I agree but the same can be said regarding bookies and how much was swept up by BF's own bots anyway.
I feel a bit perturbed to say the least that i lost £6k instead of winning approx £4.5k.
I would have thought at the very least BF could have voided the race or return funds as a matter of customer service as soon as this came to light and the 'Winners' surely not have much to complain about as common sense would say that it was not correct in these circumstance.

As mentioned above, exchange layers are not bookies.

Jul 28, 2017 -- 8:20PM, Wesdag wrote:

asparagus,You seem not to understand how an exchange works.For every loser yesterday, there was a winner.Try to just take it on the chin.Btw, should they re-settle last week's race at Killarney which was voided but has since been overturned?

Didn't know that had bee overturned, was a nice race for me.

I think you will find many bookies use exchanges in one form or another

Yeah, and..?

Still a bookie whether they do it on track or on the exchanges.Someone also mentioned that another exchange had done something.
If most can do it then why not BF and i do understand where you are coming from with your statement, but i (and many others) would have thought BF would have been a bit more amenable, like the others, who include the parent company.
I can understand if a result is reversed at a later date but this should have been done immediately the fiasco came to light, about an hour after the fact. Which BHA etc should have done instead of quoting the obvious that will happen in a couple of weeks.
Like someone else mentioned, the BF SP was way out than is normal for a 50/1 shot so i suspect, being the cynic i am, that someone probably was aware.

Could you explain how you would re-settle markets which had been played with winnings from this race over the following 2-3 hours?

BF exchange pay at the weigh-in for that reason - money is taken from 1 punter and given to another immdeiately.

If the lure of getting your stake back from a small exchange in this situation is attractive, why not just play there?

4builder4    29 Jul 17 18:02 
Still a bookie whether they do it on track or on the exchanges.





Absolute rubbish.

exactly wes

understandable frustration, the situation is farcical

but it is what it is, the rules have been applied to the letter

pointless continuing the pocket talking whingeathon

4builder4,
I doubt if anyone was "aware" but a lot of laying is done by the paddock and gate watchers, If they weren't tickling the horse themselves given how mature it must have looked, they certainly weren't laying it.

Sparrow to refute your 'Absolute Rubbish' statement
Fred Blogs Bookies who stands on course and also plays on exchanges is the same company and would show in their accounts.
Wes
Like i said i am fully aware of the rules on here and not looking for facetious retorts and only mentioned the other exchange as a point of comparison
My comments are towards BF as an entity and individual company that is run by a bookie(and BHA) and allegedly use their own platform to enhance profits, not necessarily the individuals that use the exchanges.

4builder, throughout all of this you are deliberately ignoring the ordinary layer on betfair and try to give the impression that they are all bookmakers.

Not at all birdman like i said my gripe is with the bigger entity that is BF which is owned by a bookie and used by bookies.
I have been using BF and its predecessor for as long if not longer than yourself. I understand and accept the rules accordingly but does not mean i have to agree with them and i think they could do with amending slightly to cover a situation like this.
i know it would be difficult to address the situation after the weigh in but an ex gratia solution would have been attainable quite easily by the parent company which it and others have already done in the mainstream.

Hence the statement from my previous post 'My comments are towards BF as an entity and individual company that is run by a bookie(and BHA) and allegedly use their own platform to enhance profits, not necessarily the individuals that use the exchanges.'
So not ignoring anyone, my opinion is that bookies use the platform and probably the reason the liquidity is there 90% of the time which you don't get with the other exchanges.
I am here Wes because of this and more and will carry on regardless as i have used the others in the past and on the whole BF is the only one that works for me and thankfully YOU don't decide who plays on BF and 99% of bookies pay at the weigh in as well

trying to sort out trainer/jockey/owner fiddling/non triers etc to sort a Bet is hard enough without **** ups like this.
But he ho life and gambling will go on regardless along with my own punting lol