BENT SPS AGAIN FROM WOLVS

The Betfair SP of the last fav. was 5.66 and it would be interesting to hear from any other Wolverhampton bookmaker as to what was actually going on there.
I assume you was there factmachine and laying 4/1 right up to the off.

Shows from SIS; 11/4,3/1,7/2 and minutes after the result 9/4!hilarious

ALAS SPARROW UNABLE TO ATTEND BUT I KNOW FOR A FACT IT WAS 4/1 AT THE OFF WITH AT LEAST ONE OF THE FIVE BOOKS IN ATTENDANCE,SEEMS TO BE A REGULAR OCCURRENCE AT WOLVS,BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS,DESPITE WARNINGS NOTHING IS EVER DONE!

potty layer, last shows from the course before the race were 5/2 and 9/4 not 7/2.
factmachine, how many of those books were used for the SP return?

THEY SEEM TO USE THE SAME ONES EVERY MEETING IRRESPECTIVE IF THEY STAND A BET OR NOT!

This also happens at Kempton on a regular basis and often in the last race. But if an off course rep was prepared to back at below the odds shown and the on course man happy to lay then this will continue to happen.

i'm informed that there were FIVE bookmakers. at the off four of them were offering 9/4 and the fifth was 4/1 but there were no punters in the ring then.
the sp returners use all bookmakers and dismiss the highest one and the lowest one , the sp being the average of the other three , hence 9/4 was correct.

adge , if there were no punters in the ring , how are the on-course bookmakers creating their odds

Thank you, adge.

ADGE,"SP RETURNERS USE ALL BOOKMAKERS" THAT IS PATENTLY NOT TRUE!

the sp returners use all bookmakers and dismiss the highest one and the lowest one, the sp being the average of the other three ,






factmachine,  adge used the above wording which is quite different to "ALL Bookmakers"

Why are oncourse bookmakers so concerned about betting shop sp

nobody's really backing at 5/2 when you can get 5.66 here, more a nod and a wink and the rep will see you in the car park in 15 minutes ... 9/4

hulk23    Joined: 04 May 12
Replies: 4812 06 Jul 17 09:16 
nobody's really backing at 5/2 when you can get 5.66 here.






Nobody on here at the time would be backing, but what about all the bookmaker punters?

Why would the public consider going to punt at a track that's trading at 5.2 on here, but in reality is 4/1 in the ring ?
On course punters don't care about the show, if 4/1 is available, that's why they go to a track surely. So no problem for oncourse punters, more fuel added to the "come racing" motto.

READ THE POST AGAIN RED ??????????????????????????????

ANYONE LOOKING FROM THE OUTSIDE WOULD THINK THE HORSE IN QUESTION COULD ONLY BE BACKED AT 9/4 WHEN IN REALITY ITS 4/1 ONCOURSE

OK facts, teach the uninitiated. Hypothetically, if a bookie is attending a meeting where a few fancied horses have won, he gets to the last race, the bags took a bit of a hammering, on his own he is 4 the field, at what stage does he reduce the price, will it take 100, 200, 500, how much ? or does it not matter as long as the horse is 5.2 on here ? . Because by your reasoning he should not cut the price if it's 5.2 on here. Do bookies carry an endless supply of readies ? I am asking out of ignorance so ignore it if it sounds stupid.

THE 5.2 ON HERE MIGHT BE TO £4, ITS UP TO THE BOOKMAKER WHAT PRICE HE DISPLAYS,A HORSE QUITE OFTEN WILL BE 2.96 ON HERE YET BE 2/1 FREELY OFFERED IN THE RING,THE POINT OF MY POST IS THE SP IS 100% BENT!

Come on now the "5.2 on here might be up to £4" is absolute nonsense and well you know it. The fact is that 3 minutes before the off it was 5.5 with 4 figures available to back which is quite normal near to the off. It then returned 5.66. We know what happens with the bookmakers SP and this talk about £4 to back at 5.2 is just ridiculous.

What actually happens at Wolverhampton when there are very few bookies and no punters is with a minute to offtime the off course firms
will approach the books that are offering 4/1 and ask for £500/£200 the aquieescent books then fire it straight onto the exchanges at 5.5 and upwards and then promptly cut the price to 9/4.So for the sake af a grand or so they can then return an SP of 9/4 thereby robbing 7000 shop punters and countless online customers of the proper market price.
It is Bribery,Collusion and a Cartel for price rigging which of course is illegal.

you forget the BOG savings as well, if a fav is 9/4 in the morning and is 5.5 on here a minute prior to the off, the books are going to back it in to 9/4 on the off using little money.

Calculate worldwide how many people will have taken a price online with them, you do the maths.

In a similar vein
Sometimes when I am bored I watch RPGTV and am amazed the 3 bookies and about 5 punters can create an SP that is used throughout the world. Don't know what over-rounds are, but surely it can't be right and fair. Maybe the punters taking these prices aren't bothered, but somebody or some organisation should be protecting them.

If they were Not Chopping so much off you might think they were betting the Return FAV in the Shops

SPARROW,WHATS ABSOLUTE NONSENSE IS THAT YOU THINK YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO BACK A HORSE ON HERE AT 5.5 TO 4 FIGURES AT WOLVERHAMPTON AND YOU THINK THATS QUITE NORMAL,ALL I WILL SAY IS WATCH THE NEXT MEETING,I THINK YOU MIGHT BE SHOCKED!

AS POSTED MANY TIMES BEFORE,I WOULD PROBABLY GET MORE ON IN MY LOCAL PUB

I play every meeting at Wolverhampton and don't need you to tell me that 5 minutes before the off I can't get above £5 on. Neither do I believe your much repeated assertion that you beat all exchange prices. We can also check at the next Wolverhampton meeting as to whether we can get 4 figure bets on horses 5 minutes before the off.

rep walks past bookie showing 4/1 to get on with someone else going 5/2, who then cuts to 9/4 and that's what the SP is derived from.

nothing suspicious there then ...

HULK,REP ISNT SUPPOSED TO KNOW WHO IS IN THE SP SAMPLE,BUT THEY HAVE AN UNCANNY SKILL OF KNOWING WHO IS, IRRESPECTIVE OF THE NUMBER OF BOOKS IN ATTENDANCE AT ANY MEET,THE SP IS 100% CROOKED! SPARROW OF COURSE YOU CAN GET MORE THAN A FIVER ON,BUT I DONT NEED YOU TO TELL ME THAT YOU CAN GET 4 FIGURES ON ALL HORSES AT WOLVERHAMPTON ON THIS SITE WHICH IS PATENTLY NONSENSE,THE ONLY WAY THAT WOULD HAPPEN IS IF YOU TOOK 9/2 FOR A 14/1 CHANCE,I ALSO DONT KNOW WERE YOU GOT THE "I BEAT ALL EXCHANGE PRICES" FROM EITHER,BUT I CONSTANTLY AM BIGGER THAN THE MACHINE EVERY FAVORITE WHICH IS A FACT,HENCE WHEN THE SP RETURN AT WOLVS IS 6/4 AND ME AND THE MAJORITY OF THE RING WERE 9/4 IT CAN BECOME RATHER IRRITATING!

I will alert you 10 minutes to the off time at the next Wolverhampton meeting and we shall see if we can get a 4 figure bet on at the bookmakers price for the first 3 in the betting.

WHY JUST THE FIRST 3 IN THE BETTING? I SHALL LOOK FORWARD TO IT.

SORRY,"BOOKMAKERS PRICE"?????? NO I THOUGHT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WHATS AVAILABLE ON THIS SITE??? AS FOR THE RETURNED SPS FROM WOLS,THATS MY WHOLE POINT,THEY BARE NO RESEMBLANCE AT MOST MEETINGS TO REALITY!

Ignore bookmakers price as I am just talking about horses at the top of the betting. We shall see how many we can get 4 figure bets on. All of which is a complete waste of time as everyone on here knows they can get these bets on.

The SP is the best available price available on one half of the boards in the sample.
If at Wolverhampton there were five bookmakers, the SP in this case would be the best price available on three boards.
It seems that 9/4 is the correct return.

think we've established that jamilla.  what we're curious about is who was happy to back the fav at 5/2 (with enough to knock it into 9/4) when the bookie next door was going 4/1. 

why would you do that ... maybe just didn't want to win too much ?

Hulk,all the non off course books. at the time would be laying at 4/1,the off course firms approach them with an offer of (bribe)500 to 200 (not 4/1) to tip the wink which they are only too happy to accomodate
As I said before  it is BRIBERY, COLLUSION and PRICE RIGGING.

Shouldn't our trade paper be focussing on integrity rather than stiring up whip issues again? Just doesn't make any sense.

so u have Laddies, Hills, Corals, et al price rigging on course a 4/1 shot to return 9/4.

Yet boot on the other foot, if you have the temerity to even back one slightly better than the exchange or a shortener with these firms they cut you to peanuts in an instant.

Seems to me they want it all ways up

don't the BHA still have ring inspectors to ensure this kind of thing doesn't happen

they used to be ex CID and men of integrity, back in the day!

BHA / RING INSPECTING.     

oh dear, yes i get your point, a rather unfortunate choice of words. nothing to do with my brighton roots i can assure you.

only banter hv, i have spent many happy days at the greyhound track at hove, not so happy at the horse track. !

GC yes i know, i thought it was very funny. we used to bunk into the dogs once or twice a week, now you'd be lucky if they let you out

had lot of luck up the hill, but have to think onlooker might be right about the fodder they serve up their now due to Northern Racing or whatever they are now called.

trying to remember the name of the chief Ring Inspector whom i knew fairly well and who was nearly always on duty at Brighton. Could have been George something or other. Often wore a panama and always wore well-polished brown leather brogues

he was as straight as a die and would never have tolerated the above kind of shenanigans. indeed the SP reporters were also of the utmost integrity, imo

happy valley

do you remember wormwood scrubs sadly died way before his time
loved to read ringlets as the lady sang
those were the days my friend
regards
ronnie

yes of course i remember him and his ringlets column, such a good bloke, had such a feel good factor about him, really brightened up the press room with his bonhomie and general kindness

he also knew his job inside out and upside down and i would never have doubted his integrity

and he also used to love to deal here and there in horse racing books, too, and other memorabelia

EYES DOWN FOR TOMORROWS ACTION,1.55 START

Last winner at Windsor was 7/2 and returned 6.76 on here. I posted this earlier as they were going in the stalls with plenty available at 6.6.

BENT SPS AGAIN SPARROW!

Perhaps Barry Dennis was present there and can enlighten us on the goings on.

IF THE HORSE IN QUESTION WAS 6.7 ON HERE,THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE RING WOULD BE AT LEAST 5/1,WITH PLENTY OF 11/2.

The point is that the majority of bookmaker backers would be on at 7/2 SP off course.

The joke is that I backed it at 5.6 and was annoyed
Apologies for aftertiming but I did post the price discrepancy as they were going in the stalls.

But Sparrow , what price was it in the place market on here, 11/8 ? I doubt it.

No idea, Redrob. But why should it matter about the place market?

because I think that SP's are taken from boards going each way and not win only boards. If a bookie goes 11/2 cos bf is 6.6 and someone has 200 each way, he's snookered if the place is 4/5 on bf , and he's laid 11/8 a place.

a lot of books price up so the place book is at least 100% , and of course this affects the win book.

Win only books were probably bigger, but not used for purpose of SP.

Factmachine will answer for the bookmakers.

Harebell (IRE) 3, ch f 8-13 (Mr J H Richmond-Watson)
(Drawn 6) Rated 77
Halling (USA) - Prairie Flower (IRE)(Zieten (USA))
(Morning price: 13/2 6/1 13/2 6/1 13/2 6/1 5/1 9/2 7/2 100/30 7/2 4/1 9/2 4/1 100/30)
(Ring price: 4/1 7/2 10/3 3/1 7/2) SP 7/2

The horse was 4th best so I very much doubt it was 4/5 a place on here. Prices were 9/4, 11/4, 11/4, 7/2, 10/1 with bookmakers.

I was only asking. I have no idea what it was in the pl market.

SPARROW,DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR ASKING,PLUS WHY ARE YOU QUOTING "MORNING PRICES"??? MORNING PRICES ON HERE YOU WILL BE LUCKY TO GET A FIVER ON,AND THE HIGH STREET BOOKMAKERS AND ONLINE NOT MUCH BETTER ????????????

I just copied the text from the website to show the prices from the ring. The morning prices I agree are irrelevant.
All in all the off course industry have ripped off many thousands from their punters in this race and nothing will be done about it.

7.25 Kempton Jane Rose 2/1 fav and 4.66 on here.

At least RUK picked up on this latest stroke tonight.

Hackney Road 8.55. 5/2 and 5.1 on here

IT COULD WELL BE THE FUTURE SPARROW,IF THE LATEST ONCOURSE DEVELOPMENTS ARE TO BE BELIEVED!

What's that all about, factmachine?

WILL KNOW MORE MONDAY.

it's all about the general price of the horse available to B.O.G. online BEFORE the drift on here.

then it's SP is cut to ribbons in the minute or two before the off, with no connection to the machine price, it's final price tallying up to what price it was generally available with the big 4.

so if Horse A is a general 2/1 poke and is backed all day with Lads, Billys and Joke Orals to B.O.G. prices and it drifts to say 5.8 on here, it would be 4/1 or 9/2 oncourse.

then the reps go to the SP sample as they are loading up and force its price back down to 2/1 ISP using a fraction of their liabilities to do so.

THIS NEEDS TO BE STAMPED OUT IMMEDIATELY, WHERE ARE THE HBF, STARTING PRICE REGULATORY PANEL AND GAMBLING COMMISSION WHEN YOU NEED THEM ?

But why don't the on course bookies just keep taking their money and lay back on here for a no lose situation? Or is there collusion going on....................

Sorry, back on here, not lay.

the reps force the price down in increments pre-off and into a target price (the B.O.G. price that they have have laid throughout the day).

oncourse no doubt hedge it back on the exchange, a 500k BOG liability say is wiped out for a couple of grand via the reps on the track.

everyone is a winner, EXCEPT the punter who has a BOG price or the punters doing their conkers in the shops.

prepare to laugh

[/img]http://images.onesite.com/community.betfair.com/user/dav_vin03/thumb/fa97b9b574dbde25592b4db21bd9db03.jpg[/img]

a window into the murky world of the big boys.

all parties clearly in it together, including those that should be policing it.

stinks.

SPOT ON,HULK

it is far from my first day out in terms of betting and racing in general, but some of the jargon on here has me lost

a friend of mine was or may still is an SP reporter. i'm going to check this out with him

What exactly has you lost, happy valley?

all the abbreviations, BOG for instance.

any help for us expats gratefully accepted!

your on here 15 years and you dont know what bog is?if you dont after 15 years you dont deserve to know

happy valley,   BOG means "best odds guaranteed".

BOG OFF,WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE APPROPRIATE IMO

Big Boss
13 Jul 17 10:59
Joined: 08 Jun 02
| Topic/replies: 3,858 | Blogger: Big Boss's blog
the reps force the price down in increments pre-off and into a target price (the B.O.G. price that they have have laid throughout the day).

oncourse no doubt hedge it back on the exchange, a 500k BOG liability say is wiped out for a couple of grand via the reps on the track.

everyone is a winner, EXCEPT the punter who has a BOG price or the punters doing their conkers in the shops.

What about the on course punters backing with the on course bookies? No wonder no one wants to go racing anymore.

thank you sparrow

i am going to have to re-read the whole thread to try to get my head around what is going on!

mccoy carp,
i'll think you'll find that all oncourse punters had placed their bets and were back in the grandstands well before the price drop to the returned sp. just before the off.
unless ,of course , you believe course punters take starting price