Moore stuffs up yet again!

They hang because they are tired in most cases, which was not surprising in this case given he expended most of his energy making up ground on the winner in the hottest part of the race.

Hope he does not mess up on Caravaggio later.

I wonder if we'll see the horse with some sort of headgear next time out?

Won without the jockey having to pick up the whip lto.

But look at the race before, under pressure and head plenty high enough and to the left when it finished second.

That looks like a dog to me. Although a very talented one.

Thought the horse showed a ton of guts myself

mainstream is clearly a horse that you want to cede 20L on. Same mistake as yesterday. ie drop them out show nil positivity and.,.........not get there.

Well done Ryan.Top Ascot jockey again probably.

I would have ridden at least 2 more winners than he has this week.

This has been done to death so often - he's clearly a liability - I have him as a 3lb penalty and I think I'm erring on the generous side.

under pressure and head plenty high enough and to the left when it finished second.

Head to the right rather, the same side it was hanging yesterday.

Same ride as he gave him last year, only he had to come wider this time.

He was always going to get there, except when he did get there he decided to hang into the other horse instead of passing it.

Caravaggio

luved Moore's brief post race cooment--

I gave him a message and he responded

btw--a big fan

Let's hope he does not run into a cul-de-sac on Limato; Caravaggio yesterday similarly Minding (Epsom Oaks) got him out of jail.

Rode the perfect race on Caravaggio.

Terrible Jockey This Ryan Moore Chap .

September,settle,travel,quicken and battle. This obsession for being up with the pace is not my cup of tea.Obviously it suits certain horses,such as Big Orange,Lady Aurelia etc but not in general.

money, praising any other of his steering job wins doesn't erase the wrong he did here.

Moore has been comfortably the best jockey riding in Europe for at least 10-12 years. Unfortunately, we live in an age where everyone wants to criticise, plus we also see a lot more races and replays than we did in previous generations which means that holes can be picked. Since Piggott no one has been the top jockey in Europe for as long as Moore has.

If anyone thought Moore was the best jockey riding in Europe for at last 10-12 years either they had not lived or followed horse racing in this period, why? Moore had lost uncountable number of prestigious races he ought to have won with the best horse in the race, full stop!

Nonsense.

I'd agree with Impossible, Ryan is average at best .

Be no market if we all had the same opinion, always good to see who is for or against

I also agree- his decisions have lost countless Group races on the best horse.

And all his winners have been steering jobs I assume.

No of course not but that fact does not mitigate his errors, errors that repeat on a very regular basis.

Not sure what races we are talking about but this week Churchill was not good enough on the day and Order Of St George was delivered perfectly to win the race but wouldn`t go past. Any others?

I haven't the time to list them on a Saturday of races.

Delivered perfectly. Not so sure about that. He should have won on OOTG for me.

September should have won by a lesser margin to preserve a mark for a nursery.

poor ride for the queen yest ...today ?

Blows the placepor like every other day this week

Heffernan would win all the races Moore wins for Coolmore and probably more.

Heffernan would win all the races Moore wins for Coolmore and probably more.

Poor?

Went too soon

Are you suggesting Dartmouth should have won?

As I said the lad is average.

A poor judge of pace is his main weakness, going was probably a bit quick for Dartmouth but never mind set it up for the boss.

The ground was too fast for Dartmouth.

Why run it then ? take it home for another day.

So what was average about the ride on Dartmouth?

He took it up FAR too soon for starters,when it won at York never got to the front till the last strides.

So you are suggesting he should have won the race?

O'Brien just said Seamie is world class.

World Class Heffernan vs UK class Moore.

The Dartmouth ride is not the issue for me. He gave that horse a chance and it wasn't good enough on the day. So many others he throws away (or at the very least makes it unnecessarly very difficult to win)long before the race end.

workrider, you say you work in the industry so why do you come across as thick? Moore took it up because it's strongest suit is it stamina.

Mac, if its strong suit is stamina why the heck didn't it win then ?...York showed the way it needs to be rode,Ryan a one trick pony imo.

Strangely enough Moore was too far forward this time and had no option but to take it up sooner than he'd have liked when the pacesetter dropped back. I do not think Dartmouth would have won regardless.

However, would Bentley have won on Limato in the Diamond Jubilee? He knows the horse much better than Moore.

You couldn't make it up. People with their own agenda looking like absolute fools. Anyone criticising the ride on Dartmouth might as well give up the game. Totally ludicrous. He also had Limato in the perfect spot and it wasn't quite good enough on the day.

So he gets two favs beaten one after the other and asparagus is still licking his arse,that's right mate you couldn't make it up.

Asparagus, you couldn't make it up, no plan B when race is not working out, at beat average in a sea of mediocrity

I cannot remember if Limato had ever challenged between horses at the business end. Can anyone help? I'm not saying he'd have won but..........

Oh dear, Moore is on the fav Raucous - 3 fav defeats in a roll?

Keeps it LAST for most of the way ffs, guy should be roasted for that ride.

Another bad ride from Mr Moore. He positioned his mount Raucous right at the back (yes stone last). Very good jockey, anyone disagree?

Where exactly do you suggest he went on Limato? He had a clear passage until the first 2 came across towards him on either side. If his horse wasn't fast enough to get past them, it was inevitable that he would be squeezed.

Sage,a top jockey makes sure that don't happen.

This is what I cannot understand about the journos of horse racing these days.

Starkey got roasted, admonished, castigated and discarded for his Dancing Brave ride in the Epsom Derby yet Moore with his repeated injudicious ride of Group races were forgotten or accepted as "unfortunate"; his ride on Raucous is the worst so far but there is still one race left to better that.

If I remember correctly Limato does not like to be crowded thus generally challenged on the outside of every horse but glad to be proven wrong.

All Ryans fans gone off to lick their wounds after the last few results.

Jun 24, 2017 -- 6:44PM, workrider wrote:

All Ryans fans gone off to lick their wounds after the last few results.

Even though he's retired Johnny would've ridden at least another 3 winners over the week if he'd ridden the same horses

Ryan rode 12 favs at this years ascot, a ridiculous number really. He won on only 4, but then only 7 jollies obliged from 30 races all
week.
Its ultra competitive racing at ascot and there are a lot of really bad prices available on favourites owing to factors which often have
nothing to do with the ability of the horse.
He does tend to ride a lot of these.
Churchill and Order Of St George were bittely disappointing results.
If nothing comes to light regarding the fitness of CHurchill then Ryan needs slating for the ride he gave Churchill. Doubt there was much he could have done in the Gold Cup.
As for the Wokingham. Well if you go in on a 11/2 fav in a 30 runner handicap then vaya con dios..

Moore rode 12 fav in 30 races of which 4 were odds-on ie Churchill, Winter, Order of St George and Caravaggio - 1st 2 long odds -on but only two obliged. All these were in non-handicaps of which a normal success rate would be about 66% regardless of jockey but he only achieved 50%.

Anyone betting against Moore on the fav would be many squids in, agree? Some of his 30 races - he was riding in most if not all -
had little or no chance given the position he adopted on them eg behind a wall of horses/too far back. 

Moore is no great jockey as most like to think he is, but for Coolmore I do not think Godolphin would have him as their numero uno either.

Some very interesting comments here about the ride on Dartmouth.
Same with the ride on Churchill.
Horses that clearly weren't good enough on the day.

To read some of the stuff, you'd think it is the horses that run like clockwork, and the jockeys whose form is all over the place.
Instead of the other way around.

And the trainers as well who give the jockeys their riding instructions, or at the very least discuss tactics with them. Such as riding for the win, going for the place money, or even simply there to give the horse a run for another day.
They also get regarded as idiots here.

Jun 24, 2017 -- 10:26PM, Dr Crippen wrote:

Some very interesting comments here about the ride on Dartmouth.Same with the ride on Churchill.Horses that clearly weren't good enough on the day.To read some of the stuff, you'd think it is the horses that run like clockwork, and the jockeys whose form is all over the place.Instead of the other way around. And the trainers as well who give the jockeys their riding instructions, or at the very least discuss tactics with them. Such as riding for the win, going for the place money, or even simply there to give the horse a run for another day.They also get regarded as idiots here.

I genuinely couldn't give a toss about Moore, to me racing is 90% jumps and 10% flat these days. While I have no opinion about the 2 you mention the Gold Cup was a shambles as far as Moore was concerned (and I backed the winner). Anyone who blamed the horse is just being purposely as blind as the TV pundits who refuse to see a bad ride. Moore had ridden way more bad big race rides since he's been at Coolmore than his supposed talent should allow. Its impossible to not win big races with the ammunition he gets but he should have a lot more. The great jockeys down the years have always ridden winners where I'd say only he would have won on that, I've never seen a race where I've said that about Moore. Not his fault of course that the general standard of flat jockey is the worst ever, indeed he was born at the right time as far as he is concerned, as in plenty of previous generations he'd be lucky to be on a 3rd string. Anyway this rubbish is nearly done for another year and we can soon get back to the proper racing :)

Ps, all the jockeys and trainers now say the tactics are left up to the jockey so the wrong instructions angle is rubbish.

Ps, all the jockeys and trainers now say the tactics are left up to the jockey so the wrong instructions angle is rubbish

They also tell us that every horse in the race is trying to win.

I bet you believed Fallon as well, after Tommo had said in court under oath that Fallon had told him the trainer had told him not to win on Top Cees?

I also don't care much for your opinion on reading races if you think that it was the ride that cost them the Gold Cup.

im no jockey basher,and ive won a good few quid off RM in my time,but he did seem to leave alot of horses with too much to do this week.

PS, who do you think tells the jockey to give the horse an easy run?

Does the jockey decide that himself?

''Sorry guv I thought he had a hard race last time so I decided to give him an easy run this time.
What you and the owner had ten grand apiece on him? Oh sorry about that.''

kipling
     22 Jun 17 17:36   
Most of you guys would be better studying the horses attitude and forget the jockeys.

Absolutely right Howard. No doubt the horse dodged it and hung in towards the winner. Everyone would have known that in the old days on Betfair. 

A couple of good posts there.

Sums up too many on here unfortunately.

Doubt whether any result would have been too different with different tactics----many punters put their expectations of a horse before the horses's true ability within the contest of the race--Big O is a world class horse and on the day doubt if any other horse would have passed it.

Was a great carnival spectacle

The forum clown has reinforced his star billing in this thread.

thanks

greedy got the gig,=+5 off 30.,4/5 top prize money Churchill duff.

Leaving aside some of the pro and anti Moore comments, I have to pick up on the comment that Order of St George was bitterly disappointing. Finishing a neck second to a horse like Big Orange was a mighty effort regardless of where he might have finished with a different ride and who knows which would have won had Big Orange run last year? Churchill was disappointing but he had run in both Guineas and winning those 3 races is never easy.

both RM & Frank Spencer have a habit of leaving the horse too much to do - & getting second on horses that should have won , would rather have the Mark Johnson idea of riding - keep them up with the pace , as they then rarely lose races they should have won - & if they empty out inside final furlong - then they weren't good enough on the day - I believe Frank has done this for two decades - RM is getting worse - I believe it also cost Jos O'B the Coolmore job -  not weight - all have badly      miss judged - position . pace & where winning line actually is - & consequently lost many races they should have won.

and again...

looked as if he came to win the race then stopped when he came along side.only my opinion and yes i did back it so probably pocket talking before someone says it.

ryan on that horse then 2.00 the horse come absolutely swinging what does ryan do stop riding .....the punters will never learn he is a disgrace

totally agree i did think he stopped riding.

that feeling when you just know your horse will win in a driving finish because SDS is on it and Moore is on the other one

Moore easing up on a stud owned, Stoute trained newcomer that pulled heavily once he knew he felt he couldn't win is eminently surprising.

Abingdon g1 entry

Abingdon group1 entry

finally won won lol

cheer up loser

This response was from one of the guest panelists at ATR Forum this morning when answering a criticism from a viewer who emailed about the ride on Order Of St George (OoSG) by Moore.

..."Doyle rode a brilliant race"...and that was it, no comment/opinion offered about the ride that Moore gave to OoSG eg OoSG in 2nd/3rd last with the winner in the front two throughout the race. Maybe they ought to have an alternative forum to non-parasitic industry journalists/reps but racing fans/punters, etc.

What kept you?

What's Doyle's highest speed figure?

We know he gets a trip but is he as good on soft?

Another parasitic journo heaping praises on Moore's winners but could only offer these for others.

"Tremendous on Thomas Hobson, cool on Caravaggio, stunning on September and Sioux Nation, and hard as nails on Highland Reel, Moore was once again the top jock at Ascot. He would probably love to have another go at getting OoSG up in the Gold Cup and might have sat closer on Churchill, but he did a lot more right than he did wrong."

Who is he trying to hoodwink?

Thomas Hobson could have won with a monkey onboard - he very nearly won again just three days later; Caravaggio would probably have an easier race and victory with another jock onboard; September was the best horse and was never going to lose with another jock onboard; Highland Reel is a seasoned campaigner, the best horse in the race and as tough as nails - he won the race not Moore.

Keep digging.

I nearly fell om the settee this morning when those on RUK said he made a mistake and would love to ride the race again

Totally agree.  Even if he sits 5th or 6th on OOSG it would of won 2 or 3 lenghts. The ride was glossed over by the media because the winner was such a popular winner. Jason Weaver was the only person to have the balls to say it like it was.

Can anyone still remember the race Moore rode on Found in the Breeders' Cup Turf when behind Heffernan on Highland Reel? What an embarrassment for him!

How many needles in your Ryan doll?

Just watching RUK replays and scratching my head how Abingdon, a Group filly with a 9lb advantage on official ratings and no potential improvers to beat, could start odds against. Certainly didn't need a champion jockey to win on that.

impossible123 is spot on.
OOSG was done out of a 2nd Ascot Gold Cup by Moore's ineptitude.  Doyle's ride and Big Orange's popularity is neither here nor there.
For a long time now I have regarded Moore as a liability on the Ballydoyle horses in particular. Numerous times the horses are so talented and tough they win despite Moore putting them in poor positions.

So why do they persist with this useless jockey,after all, there are far better jocks out there to choose from .

I think I've built up sufficient knowledge and experience of this game thus I can be clinical and critical in my assessment of other professionals for instance jockeys, and even trainers eg Moore; Gosden (screwed up running Jack Hobbs in the Prince Of Wales); Palmer (over ran Galileo Gold); Candy (choosing wrong race for Limato in America).

My key betting criteria in order of importance eg:-

1) ability/suitability
2) going
3) horse's win rate
4) draw (esp in sprints)
5) jockey

The use of an unfashionable jock does not deter me as it merely means a better return or less outlay. As for O'Brien/Moore combination I've always laid off stake money plus a little bit more from antepost bet esp if odds-on/Moore onboard even Caravaggio, my Ascot banker, why? Moore's success rate for odds-on shot on O'Brien's horses is well below industry average.

abbingdon ponty, group1 horse in listed 1/1,won by half a furlong chrs greedy