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Can they legally short change each way backers of first 4 home to fund paying out an extra place. Hills and Paddy Power both paying 1/5 1.2.3.4.5.
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no , they must pay 1/4 odds under the rules of their gambling commission licence...paying a 5th place is a concession only
Yes, I think Hills wil have big complaints over 1/5 Lincoln odds
@adge - what's your authority for "they must pay"?
@OP - I thought the Tatt's rules only applied to on-course bookmakers?
PP's T&C's say:
"From time to time we may offer promotions that pay out on extra placings in a horse race. In these instances we reserve the right to alter the standard place terms as set out above (e.g. we may offer to pay out 5 or 6 places in a handicap with 16 or more runners but to do so at 1/5 of the odds as opposed to standard 1/4)."
and I imagine they've run them past their lawyers....
@OP - I thought the Tatt's rules only applied to on-course bookmakers?
PP's T&C's say:
"From time to time we may offer promotions that pay out on extra placings in a horse race. In these instances we reserve the right to alter the standard place terms as set out above (e.g. we may offer to pay out 5 or 6 places in a handicap with 16 or more runners but to do so at 1/5 of the odds as opposed to standard 1/4)."
and I imagine they've run them past their lawyers....
Think adge was referring to on course bookmakers where meddling with the place terms in now banned.
@IanP - I read adge as replying to the OP's original question about PP and Hills and I wouldn't have thought that was on-course?
1/5th the odds (6 places) in the grand National PPs 
hi longbridge...I'm reading your terms and conditions from paddy power with interest.
I and all other british bookmakers are licenced through the gambling commission who have set specific rules on place terms and the minimum allowed for both on course and off course which have a slight set out difference....not sure how that affects paddy power who are of course registered in Ireland.
as an example ..there were two course bookmakers who set up last year at the grand national to bet 1/5th 1-2-3-4-5 but were stopped within minutes and instructed that they must bet 1/4 odds or must stop betting [ one did bet 1/5th first 3 which didn't come to light until later but that was another story ].
I'm not happy with that phrase "we reserve the right to alter standard place terms " at all. at best a grey area
I and all other british bookmakers are licenced through the gambling commission who have set specific rules on place terms and the minimum allowed for both on course and off course which have a slight set out difference....not sure how that affects paddy power who are of course registered in Ireland.
as an example ..there were two course bookmakers who set up last year at the grand national to bet 1/5th 1-2-3-4-5 but were stopped within minutes and instructed that they must bet 1/4 odds or must stop betting [ one did bet 1/5th first 3 which didn't come to light until later but that was another story ].
I'm not happy with that phrase "we reserve the right to alter standard place terms " at all. at best a grey area
adge
William Hill were going 1/5 the odds 5 places in the lincoin
I am not sure if this was both in the shops and online.
Are you saying they are not allowed to do this ?
Perhaps Intheknow will add his views also
William Hill were going 1/5 the odds 5 places in the lincoin
I am not sure if this was both in the shops and online.
Are you saying they are not allowed to do this ?
Perhaps Intheknow will add his views also
What terms would jockey have offered if he'd had his way adge ? Is it drinks all round after the great Shell Houston escape ? Ooops I forgot it's dominoes night - so off air ! 
I think there is a movement towards a general reduction in concessions in place terms. The 1/4 first 5 which might have been relatively commonplace is being replaced by 1/5. Bet 365 didn't even offer an extra place.
Very few of the firms offered a 1/4 on their Cheltenham ante-post markets.
Very few of the firms offered a 1/4 on their Cheltenham ante-post markets.
The "shrinkinflation" of the betting world imo,
Trumpeted as a screaming "major" concession,i don't think I am a fan for the obvious lesser win prices and if placed in the standard terms,it is a loss, accept it can work in your favour and think overall there would be little in it. Maybe it is an effort to try to bring around indeed as said above "new terms", I doubt very much the books are doing this for the good of the punter,interesting to see the way it goes over time.
Trumpeted as a screaming "major" concession,i don't think I am a fan for the obvious lesser win prices and if placed in the standard terms,it is a loss, accept it can work in your favour and think overall there would be little in it. Maybe it is an effort to try to bring around indeed as said above "new terms", I doubt very much the books are doing this for the good of the punter,interesting to see the way it goes over time.
@adge
PP are (quotng their footer, but it has to be the case for them to legally advertise in the UK) "and for customers in the UK, licensed and regulated by the Gambling Commission."
Where's this bit documented "the gambling commission who have set specific rules on place terms and the minimum allowed for both on course and off course"? I read through I load of the GC's guff a year or two back and don't recall tripping over anything like this.
PP are (quotng their footer, but it has to be the case for them to legally advertise in the UK) "and for customers in the UK, licensed and regulated by the Gambling Commission."
Where's this bit documented "the gambling commission who have set specific rules on place terms and the minimum allowed for both on course and off course"? I read through I load of the GC's guff a year or two back and don't recall tripping over anything like this.
I'm pretty sure the gambling commission don't care what terms you bet to, as long as they are clearly stated when accepting a bet. Bookmakers are free to bet to whatever terms they want.
On Course bookmakers are restricted by the racecourses in what they can offer.
On Course bookmakers are restricted by the racecourses in what they can offer.
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