Timeform Rep on RUK

And she makes some relevant points.

Rachel won that on points i reckon

I didn't see them. Frankel the best by miles in my living memory. But I think it is hard to make direct comparisons over very different eras. Frankel with the exception of one race where I feel the rider completely misjudged the race (and he still won) looked unbeatable. He destroyed numerous Group One winners. I find it hard to believe the other two horses were far better, though I guess it depends on your criteria.

Desert Orchid achieved more than Sprinter Sacre as an example. I would still say the latter was the more outstanding horse.

good evening sparrow

both the brig and sea bird only ran in one classic also,regarding big races the dewhurst,the st ja

Evening foxy, I was wrong about the classics but you and I both know that Frankel was not campaigned competitively. You can't compare his racing record with the other 2 in terms of the opposition he faced.  That 2000 guineas field Frankel beat was one of the weakest in many years.
We shall never know how good Frankel was due to the races he should but never ran in.

i totally agree about his 2,000 guineas and would even admit that the opposition that day were ridden to finish 2nd at best,however his performances as a 4 year old at royal ascot and york were outstanding his queen anne performance the best i have ever seen his juddmonte win only bettered by troy in the 79 derby and the 86 arc he was around for 3 seasons and was champion 2 year old something neither the brig or sea bird were,sea bird finished 7 from 8 the brigadier of course had a fine record beaten only by a derby winner at york ,i never saw either brigadier gerard or sea bird but dont for one minute think they were anything but top class but frankels run of wins in the style he did it was something i wont see again.

The Brigadier was not as effective at 12f but it never stopped him running and winning the King George. He ran over trips from 5 to 12f. Frankel was running over a mile as a 2 year old and was bred to get 12f. Had he run in either the Arc, King George or Breeders Cup then we would have known just how good he was.

indeed crepello i keep promising myself not to get involved in frankel debates anymore but cant help myself sometimes.

almost 5 years since we last saw him i would have thought by now everybody would have accepted he was the best racehorse ever to race

brigadier was less impressive than frankel in the st james palace a 4 runner race one had won the thirsk classic trial and the diomed stakes one was last in the 2,000 guineas the other had won a maiden,the brigadier got up in the last few strides.

7 seconds slower than frankel as well in that race.mind you kingman was more impressive than the pair of them in that particular race.

Where the hell is brigust. He has forgotten more than I know about Brigadier Gerard.

cirrus,nathanial,farhh,st nicholas abbey,twice over,excellabration,strong suit,dick turpin,canford cliffs,dream ahead,and treasure beach maybe not mill reefs but not a bad bunch who won plenty of top races.

i know i did sparrow could not resist it,it would be nice if we could see something 1/2 as good as these three over the coming flat season.

See him live, Sparrow?

Well we can but hope, foxy.

Not live I'm afraid barton. My father saw Golden Miller who won 5 gold cups and he said Arkle was in a different league.

Arkle would have sorely tested Kauto's jumping foxy. I think he would have broke his heart as he did with Mill House in the end. He was relentless.

Trying 12f might not have made Frankel a better horse, but it would have given him the opportunity to become a great one. The greatest thoroughbreds for me are the ones who are asked to do the business in adverse conditions, and still find a way to win, even if the ratings they produce are a stone below the ones they've achieved in perfect conditions.

Nijinsky's Leger, Desert Orchid's Gold Cup, the Brigadier's King George ... they were races where horses of the highest class in terms of ratings were all out to get home from second-raters, yet those were also the races which sealed those horses' greatness. The Triple Crown and that endless Doncaster straight, the Gold Cup, left-handed in the mud, and taking up the challenge of the mile and a half trip which has made the breed what it is.

I can understand all sorts of reasons why a great horse might not necessarily make it to post on Derby day itself. But to duck the 12f challenge at every stage, even without the added difficulties of the track, date and atmosphere offered by Derby day itself to contend with, that's just a waste of a good horse.

excellent example with nijinsky screaming,a horse often forgotten when people talk about the greats ,nice of ballydoyle to have a crack with camelot hopefully i will see a triple crown before i pop it,saw oh so sharp but that was not quite the same.