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Without doubt it's Warren Greatrex, his horses are over bet and it's an outfit that is totally clueless. Massively inconsistent but for most punters his horses are unavoidable as they will regularly feature at the top of the market.
Of course you will have the morons who say "why don't you lay all his horses ?", well it's not as simple as that as regularly he is going to train something that looks to have a great chance, so blind laying is not an option. Although ignoring the outfit and possibly opposing them when the situation arises that there is credible opposition, wouldn't be too costly at the end of the year.
There are others too who are costly to follow but nobody in my book who has such a big reputation and who's results are so disappointing.
Of course you will have the morons who say "why don't you lay all his horses ?", well it's not as simple as that as regularly he is going to train something that looks to have a great chance, so blind laying is not an option. Although ignoring the outfit and possibly opposing them when the situation arises that there is credible opposition, wouldn't be too costly at the end of the year.
There are others too who are costly to follow but nobody in my book who has such a big reputation and who's results are so disappointing.
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think jonjo oniel is an underachiever and his horses are hard to assess
I agree with most of that. He strikes me as someone who tries too hard too soon, and leaves himself with nothing to work on ahead of the big days. He is sure to hit the bullseye occasionally given the talent in his hands but there doesn't seem to be much planning to most of what he does, and when there is a long-laid plan in place, the end results suggest the execution leaves a lot to be desired -- La Bague Au Roi being a prime example last week (kept fresh for months and trained for one day, only for the jockey to go way too hard up front).
I know a guy who delivered diesel to jonjo...........said you wouldn't meet a nicer guy
To be fair guys like Paul Nolan are nigh on avoidable as they will have only a half dozen favourites a year, whereas the likes of greatrex has that many in a week .
Jon Joe is another enigma in that you can't back his horses with confidence, for many reasons.
Jon Joe is another enigma in that you can't back his horses with confidence, for many reasons.
Embarrassing thread. Mincer pretending to have a home.
Mustang, thought you'd be stuck up halcyon days at this time. Hope everything is ok between you?
As a man who's ridden horse Mincer you should be well able to lay the WG nags, Have seen at least 5 of his that were fav this year go to post lame as f@ck.
Gallops them into the ground daily, Just another butcher who breaks his stock to compensate for lack of ability.
Gallops them into the ground daily, Just another butcher who breaks his stock to compensate for lack of ability.
As a business model all these bumper winners has probably served him well. But agree the only way he's done that is by pushing them hard.
surely philip rothwell and hourigan have to be mentioned here?
Gutfeeling, I have never ridden a horse and I wouldn't know if a horse was lame or not.
Ah was my understanding you was once a jockey, No bother & apologies for my mistake.
Rothwell and Hourigan are non entities kavvie. The game is littered with those kind of trainers, who are perfectly avoidable.If you are betting every day of the week the likes of Greatrex is hard to avoid
true i suppose.but consistently are bottom of the trainers wins/runs % but as you say neither count.
' Gutfeeling, I have never ridden a horse and I wouldn't know if a horse was lame or not. '
The Tehran Cowboy aka paulie wallnuts...
What a fist class moron !
The Tehran Cowboy aka paulie wallnuts...
What a fist class moron !
^ cue homophobic rant from an idiot who can't debate !
Gutfeeling, I was in an argument one night over some jockey giving a horse a bad ride. Some cretin asked me how many winners had I rode and I told him I was a former jockey in Iran. The moron actually believed it and has mentioned it on other threads since. He refers to me as the Tehran cowboy. It's funny actually and others have been duped into believing I was a jockey, only because I haven't bothered to say I wasn't
You complete & utter teller of falsehoods....
you stated on here you rode professionally in Iran !
you stated on here you rode professionally in Iran !
Plausible, The tThran Cowboy is a bloody funny nickname though.
You responded to a poster asking how you could be so critical of jockeys !
Memory going Paulie Well Nuts ?....
Memory going Paulie Well Nuts ?....
Yes I did halcyon days , but I didn't expect anyone to actually believe it. How could anyone be so stupid as to believe such a thing. I doubt if there's even a racetrack in Iran. It takes a special kind of tool to swallow that one
That's the difference Guta...
Paulie can't do wit, so resorts to homophobic rants !
Paulie can't do wit, so resorts to homophobic rants !
More Baghdad Bullsh1tter than Tehran Cowboy then.
Venetia Williams - over the years her horses have popped up at a big price to nail a good thing I am on many many times. Usually they have little form for months or years before. Can't remember ever winning on one of hers I have backed.
So, two years to say you were ''spoofing!''
Credibility zilch Paulie... keep seething you plum !
Credibility zilch Paulie... keep seething you plum !
And, there is a racetrack in Tehran... as well you know, you Gaelic ejit !
Have never rated him, think his campaigning of a few of his horses is very questionable as well. I'd say someone like Mulholland would do a lot more with his type of ammo.
Of the young English trainers, Skelton and Fry are probably the clear picks and the way things have gone downhill (relatively speaking) in Nicholls speaks to this as well. The ground obviously went against Neon Wolf, but I'd say he would've won anyway but for the mistake (only just), Anyway he was produced perfectly for the day which is the main thing.
A guy I've criticised plenty on here is Ben Pauling, but I must give him his due and say his horse that won the Neptune ran his guts out and he has taken nthe pretty tough decision to put him away now, (tough because there will be clearly better fancied novice chasers around and he'd obviously give Aintree a good rattle in all probability). I'd say he has probably learned something from the decent 3 mile novice hurdler he had last yr that got injured pitched in too deep first time.
Of the young English trainers, Skelton and Fry are probably the clear picks and the way things have gone downhill (relatively speaking) in Nicholls speaks to this as well. The ground obviously went against Neon Wolf, but I'd say he would've won anyway but for the mistake (only just), Anyway he was produced perfectly for the day which is the main thing.
A guy I've criticised plenty on here is Ben Pauling, but I must give him his due and say his horse that won the Neptune ran his guts out and he has taken nthe pretty tough decision to put him away now, (tough because there will be clearly better fancied novice chasers around and he'd obviously give Aintree a good rattle in all probability). I'd say he has probably learned something from the decent 3 mile novice hurdler he had last yr that got injured pitched in too deep first time.
Apologies if the last bit appears to be damning Pauling with faint praise, he has done a super job with Willoughby Court. What happened to that Novice Chaser could be the making of him, looks like it might be, even.
hi mincer some had said you were banned yest glad your still with us !
i think some trainers cost the bookies to much and ar bought out
laying wd be more profitable for some ! one must wander how some trainers survive
i think some trainers cost the bookies to much and ar bought out
laying wd be more profitable for some ! one must wander how some trainers survive
I fully agree with the op. Greatrex seems to overhype all his horses beyond all recognition. Last year you'd swear he was going to be top trainer at Cheltenham with all the horses he fancied to win and the market bought it. I don't know what has happened to that alomomo horse and out sam was pulled up with nearly 2 circuits to go in the midlands national. Both those horses went off favourite at last year's festival. When he was doing interviews about cole harden, he kept just spouting negatives about unknowwhatimmeanharry rater than speak about the merits of his own horse. Even though Fry's horse didn't win, he still finished in front of Cole harden.
Speaking of which, Harry Fry is much shrewder operator and a class act to booth. He'll be disappointed to have not won with either neon wolf or the world hurdle horse but they'll still win big races in the future and no doubt Fry will be a lot better trainer in the long run than greatrex.
Speaking of which, Harry Fry is much shrewder operator and a class act to booth. He'll be disappointed to have not won with either neon wolf or the world hurdle horse but they'll still win big races in the future and no doubt Fry will be a lot better trainer in the long run than greatrex.
Wouldn't send anything to Skelton myself neill, He got one from a yard I was on, Lovely horse with stacks of potential, He invited me down a few times & to the races when it ran.
Told him it wanted 2m4f on good ground as did the lad who rode it in work yet he kept running it over 2m on anything as it did show loads of speed for a jumper.
It's now broken to pieces and is only a young horse.
I have considered buying it back from where it is now but I couldn't afford to give it all the time off & veterinary attention It'd require to get it back if it's even possible as I haven't seen him in the flesh for a year now and his head is probably wrecked too
I know you're only judging on his results so just saying if you're ever in the position to get a horse please take him off your list of trainers you'd consider if you want a horse to survive more than 2 seasons.
Told him it wanted 2m4f on good ground as did the lad who rode it in work yet he kept running it over 2m on anything as it did show loads of speed for a jumper.
It's now broken to pieces and is only a young horse.
I have considered buying it back from where it is now but I couldn't afford to give it all the time off & veterinary attention It'd require to get it back if it's even possible as I haven't seen him in the flesh for a year now and his head is probably wrecked too
I know you're only judging on his results so just saying if you're ever in the position to get a horse please take him off your list of trainers you'd consider if you want a horse to survive more than 2 seasons.
what about the demise of p nicholes he went from top prem to bott of 1st div 
look at the egg and spoon races during week he is not interested
just wandering how much of a loss owners have made , not much to write home about these days
look at the egg and spoon races during week he is not interested
just wandering how much of a loss owners have made , not much to write home about these days
Interesting gut, that's first-hand experience so will certainly bear that in mind, a good insight; cheers.
Evan Williams up there surely seems he still somehow gets expensive purchases and does fark all with them
Mincer was champion jockey in Iran 4 times, he was known as Camel head ,claiming 7,he was ran out of there by the Shah for talking shyte .....
lisa williamson. 5/2 favs running with the wrong weight ...
end of fred.
end of fred.
I agree with gutfeeling regarding Skelton, another over rated outfit who thinks their geese are swans. A big negative with trainers is when they utilise sub standard riders. Greatrex Nicholls Skelton are just 3 who fit that bracket
lay the "winner" at 1.01, back everything in behind at 1000.
someones got the game by the nuts ....
someones got the game by the nuts ....
Wouldn't be a fan of Skelton myself, always have to laugh at the RP comments re is horses chance "in great hands" etc you'd swear he's been around for years and had a good track record in big races
loads stables that churned out fit horses looking like champions ie martin pipe
etc just cant seam to sustain long levels of form anymore
etc just cant seam to sustain long levels of form anymore
Re:Skelton stable,I'm sure I read on here from someone who had strong connections with the stable that it was generally regarded that Skelton worked them too hard at home,and that would not be conduisive to keeping animals at a high level over a long period of time.
May well have an element of truth as many of his only have a limited peak period.
May well have an element of truth as many of his only have a limited peak period.
you simply cant keep them at the top of their game for a long period of time.
horses are exactly the same as athletes the faster u get a horse to form the less it will keep it
the slower you bring a horse to peak the longer it will stay at peak form for , luca used to do this bring them along slowly put them in harder races each time
the slower you bring a horse to peak the longer it will stay at peak form for , luca used to do this bring them along slowly put them in harder races each time
they need down time, to be taken out of training for a few weeks, then brought back to the boil the majority simple cant go through a whole season in full training
Dealer,not a long period of time.
I refer to many Skelton horses who win as novices,and only weeks later get beat at prohibitive odds,appearing to lose form quickly.
May of course be a coincidence, or just bad luck.
Seems to happen to him more than most.
I refer to many Skelton horses who win as novices,and only weeks later get beat at prohibitive odds,appearing to lose form quickly.
May of course be a coincidence, or just bad luck.
Seems to happen to him more than most.
no i agree with you similar to johnston on the flat, you keep working them hard they go stale
im just saying it would be impossible to keep a horse at the top of its game for six months of a season, thats if they stay sound
dealer, slightly off topic, whats your opinion of the kd yard ?
dealer a guy assistant trainer to 2nd biggest stable in new zealand came here for a year he done 6 months with balding just to see dif training method he told me he had 3 horses better than play school in his barn at a cost of around 50k gr2 or 3 geldings not over raced just lost a bit of speed , he said they are as tough as old boots thats was around 20 years ago but still a lot of horse for that wonga , i still remember him telling me i was on this 2 year old at baldings barn and it nearly pulled my arms out the sockets ! he sad it going to be a very good horse looks a bull of a horse more like a 3 year old ! i sais should i back it 1st time up . he said i wd back it 2nd run as its so big it might just burn out 1st run , i said whats it called ''selkirk' he replied ! it fooken won at 20s 1st time out ! 
, i still remember him telling me i was on this 2 year old at baldings barn and it nearly pulled my arms out the sockets ! he sad it going to be a very good horse looks a bull of a horse more like a 3 year old ! i sais should i back it 1st time up . he said i wd back it 2nd run as its so big it might just burn out 1st run , i said whats it called ''selkirk' he replied ! it fooken won at 20s 1st time out !
More chance if you just keep them ticking over at home,rather than working their socks off though.
have been to the yard, his gallops although not long are very stiff especially the last 2 furlongs. i think he is a bit like Johnston in that he also trains them hard. he gets results though but you find they also go off the boil. when the money is down it rarely goes astray but that info is only available to the inner inner sanctum. not many trainers would start a horse like Tommy Doc in a sprint at southwell and a few months later its running over 2 miles.
he has done well with cast offs as well as i found out to my cost but thats a long story. he has one at southwell tomorrow that is interesting. if tomorrows not the day then i would bet you in the next 2 weeks it will win with the money down
Back in the day,a few horses came over from New Zealand to race here.
I remember Grand Canyon was one such champion he was a star over here.Trainer was D Kent and jock P Haynes from memory.
I remember Grand Canyon was one such champion he was a star over here.Trainer was D Kent and jock P Haynes from memory.
mark johnston is a trained vet so he knows exactly when a horse is right !
imo mark johnston would hardly know the front or the back of the majority of horses in his yard
he purely plays the numbers game, it works for him so who am i to say he is wrong
a nice gut though but with a major patron in his stable i doubt he will be worrying much about anything
at £2K plus a month for having the pleasure of someone else training them i doubt he would be my first choice of value for money
thanks dealer, i got to following a few of his horses, his runner at newcastle tommoz being one of them, just looking thats been on the
go since leaving bells yard in july 2016. as you say also one to note when the market speaks.
go since leaving bells yard in july 2016. as you say also one to note when the market speaks.
he is a good trainer, he gets the job done. heard a few rumours about certain things that might be happening in the yard that would seem to show substantial improvement in how horses have ran but its all here say.
how prolific a winner was play school not the biggest of horses either
its funny how u meet people the connection was through rugby my brother brought
4 lads over from new zealand , who played , sean lineen who most have hear of was one
they stayed at my flat and my nephews for around a year , they brought the assistant trainer
with them 4 big strapping lasts and this little guy who just loved his rugby !
soon i was talking horse ! they dont have that many jumper over their mike but
boy the ones that do are pretty dam good ! D H Barons what was the other one he brought over about same time as play school ,
its funny how u meet people the connection was through rugby my brother brought
4 lads over from new zealand , who played , sean lineen who most have hear of was one
they stayed at my flat and my nephews for around a year , they brought the assistant trainer
with them 4 big strapping lasts and this little guy who just loved his rugby !
soon i was talking horse ! they dont have that many jumper over their mike but
boy the ones that do are pretty dam good ! D H Barons what was the other one he brought over about same time as play school ,
i am not sure hes ideally berthed inside (1), hoping he gets a nice tow in behind the irish horse, and then its just up to
connor to earn his fee. !!
simples. ran well on his only run here before when stuck out wide (13). g/l.
connor to earn his fee. !!
simples. ran well on his only run here before when stuck out wide (13). g/l.
he got too big dealer and yes he over sees the work he done the getting his hands dirty in the stables
just a watcher now , yer u not getting the same one to one from him have to agree !
just a watcher now , yer u not getting the same one to one from him have to agree !
Mart,was Play School the horse that Paul Nicholls used to,ride in his pomp?
do you blame him though mart, around 250 paying £2K a month
thanks penz i am sure your right , he was convinced playschool was doped befor the gold cup says what every they gave the horse fk up its nervous system bas tards , says the horse was shaking like a leaf and was never the same after was costing bookmakers too much to win !
mart all the doping scandals there has been, not one to do with bookmakers, you keep making that assumption imo it just isnt true.
no dealer i rem sitting in mcbets every sat in the loo he used to call him every say at 10.30 i used to evs drop as he had a silly partition next to loo u cd here every word he sais it was 2,3o number 4 should win etc , he had only ave horses then , look at the rise of Gordon Elliott
dealer not so long ago he was running 3k horses around perth and mussel that look like ragged old goats ! look at him now !
dealer not so long ago he was running 3k horses around perth and mussel that look like ragged old goats ! look at him now !
i see that dealer, be a watching brief from me, first time on a/w ?.class horse a fews yrs back.
yeah GC tomorrow probably not its day but had a wee pop at the prices but interesting to see where it goes next. good luck with the other one
RothmanMike
RothmanMike 20 Mar 17 22:38 Joined: 02 Mar 02 | Topic/replies: 3,632 | Blogger: RothmanMike's blog
Mart,was Play School the horse that Paul Nicholls used to,ride in his pomp?
yes i think so but i cant find its early form sure it won around 7 races on the bounce must be 30 years ago now
RothmanMike 20 Mar 17 22:38 Joined: 02 Mar 02 | Topic/replies: 3,632 | Blogger: RothmanMike's blog
Mart,was Play School the horse that Paul Nicholls used to,ride in his pomp?
yes i think so but i cant find its early form sure it won around 7 races on the bounce must be 30 years ago now
thats 2 out of the 8 we have put up a word for, i am guessing we have a 25 % chance of a winner. 
Very much agree with OP and I think part of the problem lies with Gavin Sheehan and his all too frequent tendency to lose the plot when riding a fancied Greatrex horse in a big race. Western Ryder should've finished placed at least in the Festival bumper but Sheehan chose to take the brave man's route on the inside where he was continually squeezed for room and baulked by the other runners. As has already been mentioned, the ride given to La Bague Au Roi was just as poor and ill judged.
Only Fry and Pauling did a decent job of flying the flag for the new wave of high flying young trainers at Cheltenham last week. The likes of Skelton, Longsdon, Mulholland and Greatrex all went AWOL.
Only Fry and Pauling did a decent job of flying the flag for the new wave of high flying young trainers at Cheltenham last week. The likes of Skelton, Longsdon, Mulholland and Greatrex all went AWOL.
lol 
i do think my one is for another time but 20's was too big
i do think my one is for another time but 20's was too big
Why did Denmark pull his horses from Greatrex after such a short time?
Did not know Gordon Elliott worked for Paul Nichols ,and Paul gave him his first big Winner , Silver Birch
Talking of skullduggery ,Norwich and Bravefoot ...what was the final outcome there ? never really became known who was really behind it
Backed them both
thort it was finding money in the street
if it was not the books behind it who else would bother and why ? there was no exchange to blame back then ,only layers were the books.
Talking of skullduggery ,Norwich and Bravefoot ...what was the final outcome there ? never really became known who was really behind it
Backed them both
thort it was finding money in the street if it was not the books behind it who else would bother and why ? there was no exchange to blame back then ,only layers were the books.
hopefully so, of course i might be talkin bollix and totally wrong, cant see why he would still have it though
Nicholls won the Hennessy and Welsh National in 87 and Irish Hennessy in 88 on Playschool.
I agree entirely about Greatex could not train Ivy Up A Wall how does he get Owners,But even worse Jonjo O’Neill always got that false laugh when interviewed but a smiling sneaky assassin to punters has had two warnings already but still pulling strokes except for JP when the money is down,The gutless BHA are to frightened to take the big men on so **** the little punter who after all only put 85% into racing.But these crooks will in the end ruin racing.
mincer11 • March 20, 2017 8:07 PM GMT
To be fair guys like Paul Nolan are nigh on avoidable as they will have only a half dozen favourites a year, whereas the likes of greatrex has that many in a week .
Jon Joe is another enigma in that you can't back his horses with confidence, for many reasons.
Jon Joe
Ha - like certain Irish pay masters - who like throwing curved balls - at least every other day
To be fair guys like Paul Nolan are nigh on avoidable as they will have only a half dozen favourites a year, whereas the likes of greatrex has that many in a week .
Jon Joe is another enigma in that you can't back his horses with confidence, for many reasons.
Jon Joe
Ha - like certain Irish pay masters - who like throwing curved balls - at least every other day
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