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SATURDAY 18th MARCH 2017 Share the results
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LUNCHTIME DRAW - 12:51:20
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TEATIME DRAW - 18:02:47
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WTF thats either a fix or the same odds as elvis singin on the moon to lord lucan whos sat on shergar
Miss the old days like mad Ronnie. Only now I realise how good it was and how much cash was to be had. Last 4-5 years before we went were crap with the gamb comm sis fees levy pubs closin etc prior to that it was a licence to print money as they say. I cant stand the places now I cant believe they can get away with givin out scratch cards for he fobs and persuading young lads who are after a small footy bet to have a go on em. The Hill s shop near me did 77 bets on Chelt Wednesday !! We did well over 1500 as well as loads on the phones they never stopped during chelt by now I would have me head in a Cosmos holiday brochure courtesy of the previous 3 days at chelt, happy days.
How are you doing ?
How are you doing ?
Dont know what the odds of this happening but i think somethings gone wrong ,, is it fixed
How you doin Capt. Was in me loft the other week found an old greyform dog sheet, To think 10 blokes used to crowd round one them at 11.00 every sat morn.
MR.
I was actually thinking about you only a few days ago was trying to bring your post up about the exes of a shop.Games changed so much I bet you miss the days of locking the Chinese in to play the fobts even they have had the day lovely to see you are still looking in.Have you used all the duplicate slips Take care.
Ronnie.
I was actually thinking about you only a few days ago was trying to bring your post up about the exes of a shop.Games changed so much I bet you miss the days of locking the Chinese in to play the fobts even they have had the day lovely to see you are still looking in.Have you used all the duplicate slips Take care.
Ronnie.
ive just sent you a reply but its saying a moderator needs to approve it WTF !!!!!!!
STEEPLEDOWNS
The virtuals were the same races played out every time - there were 10 races in total. Basically all they did was move the horses around. Race one would be won by the hose 3rd from the rail race 2 8 from the rail race 3 the nearest the rail and so on. Sprint valley wand portman park wee the same the same stall won the race it just had a different horse in.
The prob with portman and sprint was they were in the stalls so you had no idea of the number. HOWEVER when steepledowns appeared the hoses lined up as in national hunt about 5 second before the race. This gave him time to clock the number so he had 5 seconds to place the bet. It could be the fav or a 100-1 shot. He memorised the colours to make it faster. He cleared up in Ireland then came over here and cleared up again. In the end he sat in a shop in Ireland and had a lad over here on the phone with an ear piece in he would tell the lad the number he would act like he was on the phone to the mrs and just listen then put the bet on. In the end if the irish fella said number 7 he would place £50 on number 7number 8 and number 9 to make it look like a guess. I saw this work with my own eyes
The virtuals were the same races played out every time - there were 10 races in total. Basically all they did was move the horses around. Race one would be won by the hose 3rd from the rail race 2 8 from the rail race 3 the nearest the rail and so on. Sprint valley wand portman park wee the same the same stall won the race it just had a different horse in.
The prob with portman and sprint was they were in the stalls so you had no idea of the number. HOWEVER when steepledowns appeared the hoses lined up as in national hunt about 5 second before the race. This gave him time to clock the number so he had 5 seconds to place the bet. It could be the fav or a 100-1 shot. He memorised the colours to make it faster. He cleared up in Ireland then came over here and cleared up again. In the end he sat in a shop in Ireland and had a lad over here on the phone with an ear piece in he would tell the lad the number he would act like he was on the phone to the mrs and just listen then put the bet on. In the end if the irish fella said number 7 he would place £50 on number 7number 8 and number 9 to make it look like a guess. I saw this work with my own eyes
Busyfool ???? I said exactly the same I said I would take them all .Believe me I took 3 bets myself all winners. It took me about 3 days to finally see how it was done. It was always a couple of seconds before the off and only steepledowns. There's someone else on here who knows about it and new him.
They must have made zillions before the glitch was discovered
Except they didnt
Except they didnt
No not millions thousands and it wasn't a glitch - they stopped taking bets 10 secs before the race.
As I say i seen this with my own eyes and it cost me a few bob.
As I say i seen this with my own eyes and it cost me a few bob.
Interesting stuff, Did you know there was a large period of time where the off times for virtuals and some other stuff was not transmitted in time, and often not until after the result of the event?
Further to what you posted when we where looking into this I was told that Paddy Power stopped taking virtual bets in shop for a few months.
Further to what you posted when we where looking into this I was told that Paddy Power stopped taking virtual bets in shop for a few months.
They often have the result on the screen before the first horse has crossed the line in Fred’s. I know it’s computer generated but it wouldn’t be very inspiring if you bet in them. At least give the illusion that the result isn’t known until several seconds after the race.
Fred spends hours on a Saturday morning pushing virtual horses. He does virtual doubles daily. I’ve always wondered whether he’s just playing the odds or if he knows the results beforehand.
Fred spends hours on a Saturday morning pushing virtual horses. He does virtual doubles daily. I’ve always wondered whether he’s just playing the odds or if he knows the results beforehand.
I would imagine the latter kenbo.
Years ago a mate of mine used to do the video’s for money-raising greyhound nights, he just went the rounds with the same vids. Played at different stages on different events and few if any cottoned on. Except his daughter, who it became clear did know the results of each tape. Caused him some embarrassment when it was noticed and complained about. Advance knowledge seems always to be available to someone, about almost anything that can be gambled on imo.
Years ago a mate of mine used to do the video’s for money-raising greyhound nights, he just went the rounds with the same vids. Played at different stages on different events and few if any cottoned on. Except his daughter, who it became clear did know the results of each tape. Caused him some embarrassment when it was noticed and complained about. Advance knowledge seems always to be available to someone, about almost anything that can be gambled on imo.
maine-road11 Nov 25 12:49
STEEPLEDOWNS
The virtuals were the same races played out every time - there were 10 races in total. Basically all they did was move the horses around. Race one would be won by the hose 3rd from the rail race 2 8 from the rail race 3 the nearest the rail and so on. Sprint valley wand portman park wee the same the same stall won the race it just had a different horse in.
The prob with portman and sprint was they were in the stalls so you had no idea of the number. HOWEVER when steepledowns appeared the hoses lined up as in national hunt about 5 second before the race. This gave him time to clock the number so he had 5 seconds to place the bet. It could be the fav or a 100-1 shot. He memorised the colours to make it faster. He cleared up in Ireland then came over here and cleared up again. In the end he sat in a shop in Ireland and had a lad over here on the phone with an ear piece in he would tell the lad the number he would act like he was on the phone to the mrs and just listen then put the bet on. In the end if the irish fella said number 7 he would place £50 on number 7number 8 and number 9 to make it look like a guess. I saw this work with my own eyes
This makes perfect sense in terms of computer programming and how most computerised random were generated 10-20 years ago.
Paddy power roulette machines, side by side would land on the same number on both machines if the 'play' buttons were both pressed at the same time.
I worked out that the number was generated using the the time to the second as a seed.
I didn't manage to exploit this leak (shame) and it stayed until the next generation of machines arrived which were connected to the internet and didn't generate the winning number internally.
Some maths guy worked out that the random number used to generate hands on paradise poker was seeded using the time down to the millisecond (millisec times are a feature of UNIX machines, PC's used seconds mostly)
So your guy saying there were 10 races in total, was probably a factor of what time past the hour they started, and thus the sequence would stay the same and repeat.
Escapee - exactly your correct. 10 races all different but with the same outcome going round in a loop.
The computer randomly chose the horses starting position but the winner was always lining up in the same place.
Isuppose if this fella spent all day in the shop watching which people used to do he eventually noticed.
I used to know the lad he was in with over here after he'd done Ireland he didn't even know himself how he did it.
It took a bit of working out but we knew he didn't have prior knowledge as every bet was right at the off and only steepledowns process of elimination finally got us there.
The computer randomly chose the horses starting position but the winner was always lining up in the same place.
Isuppose if this fella spent all day in the shop watching which people used to do he eventually noticed.
I used to know the lad he was in with over here after he'd done Ireland he didn't even know himself how he did it.
It took a bit of working out but we knew he didn't have prior knowledge as every bet was right at the off and only steepledowns process of elimination finally got us there.
6 Guys sat round a table playing bingo one of them shouts Ronnie we need number 22 with 8 balls to go I look on the box behind the counter and. Say to myself hard look its not coming out
Ronnie.
Ronnie.
Ronnie there's only one firm left that do the 2 part slips.
They make them for the bars in Spain n Tenerife with cash investment on them.
I still use em for gold cup day and ladies day at ascot but running low need to buy 5000 !
They make them for the bars in Spain n Tenerife with cash investment on them.
I still use em for gold cup day and ladies day at ascot but running low need to buy 5000 !
Hi Ronnie
Found this from 13 years ago
Ronnie still do the pub at the odd big meeting. Gold cup day was just like the old days, 2 part slips loads of 10ers scores and a few 50s, results were crap but I got away with it and won a few bob, the lad in an Irish boozer ap the road got cleaned out, a few Irish winners went in. Was in Portugal on a stag doo on National day took a load of slips found a bar that had the racing on and threw a load of slips about took about a five hundred euros and payed out next to nowt, paid for the trip !!!
I dont half miss the old days, mainly the money ! Once the Irish lottery came in thats when things started to change £475 for a £1 it seemed impossible but it seemed to be won every week, I also gave someone £450 for 10p on thing you could never do that on the horses. I counted 10 people in a Corals the other day, 4 on the machines 4 playin bingo or some numbers game and 2 fillin football coupons in, if you would of unplugged SIS no one would have noticed, the bird behind the till was foriegn probably thinks a round robin is a fat bird you get in the garden. Hoes it treatin you ?
Found this from 13 years ago
Ronnie still do the pub at the odd big meeting. Gold cup day was just like the old days, 2 part slips loads of 10ers scores and a few 50s, results were crap but I got away with it and won a few bob, the lad in an Irish boozer ap the road got cleaned out, a few Irish winners went in. Was in Portugal on a stag doo on National day took a load of slips found a bar that had the racing on and threw a load of slips about took about a five hundred euros and payed out next to nowt, paid for the trip !!!
I dont half miss the old days, mainly the money ! Once the Irish lottery came in thats when things started to change £475 for a £1 it seemed impossible but it seemed to be won every week, I also gave someone £450 for 10p on thing you could never do that on the horses. I counted 10 people in a Corals the other day, 4 on the machines 4 playin bingo or some numbers game and 2 fillin football coupons in, if you would of unplugged SIS no one would have noticed, the bird behind the till was foriegn probably thinks a round robin is a fat bird you get in the garden. Hoes it treatin you ?
Me account got took down so not been able to get on forum for years but back on now somehow - still cant bet though.
Found this ronnie from 13 years ago !!!
Ronnie still do the pub at the odd big meeting. Gold cup day was just like the old days, 2 part slips loads of 10ers scores and a few 50s, results were crap but I got away with it and won a few bob, the lad in an Irish boozer ap the road got cleaned out, a few Irish winners went in. Was in Portugal on a stag doo on National day took a load of slips found a bar that had the racing on and threw a load of slips about took about a five hundred euros and payed out next to nowt, paid for the trip !!!
I dont half miss the old days, mainly the money ! Once the Irish lottery came in thats when things started to change £475 for a £1 it seemed impossible but it seemed to be won every week, I also gave someone £450 for 10p on thing you could never do that on the horses. I counted 10 people in a shop
the other day, 4 on the machines 4 playin bingo or some numbers game and 2 fillin football coupons in, if you would of unplugged SIS no one would have noticed, the bird behind the till was foriegn probably thinks a round robin is a fat bird you get in the garden. Hoes it treatin you ?
Found this ronnie from 13 years ago !!!
Ronnie still do the pub at the odd big meeting. Gold cup day was just like the old days, 2 part slips loads of 10ers scores and a few 50s, results were crap but I got away with it and won a few bob, the lad in an Irish boozer ap the road got cleaned out, a few Irish winners went in. Was in Portugal on a stag doo on National day took a load of slips found a bar that had the racing on and threw a load of slips about took about a five hundred euros and payed out next to nowt, paid for the trip !!!
I dont half miss the old days, mainly the money ! Once the Irish lottery came in thats when things started to change £475 for a £1 it seemed impossible but it seemed to be won every week, I also gave someone £450 for 10p on thing you could never do that on the horses. I counted 10 people in a shop
the other day, 4 on the machines 4 playin bingo or some numbers game and 2 fillin football coupons in, if you would of unplugged SIS no one would have noticed, the bird behind the till was foriegn probably thinks a round robin is a fat bird you get in the garden. Hoes it treatin you ?
main rd....a suggestion for 2way slips
is use the check pads restuarants use
most of those(if not digital) are two
copys ie, one for kitchen n for foh...
very similar to old skool books..
is use the check pads restuarants use
most of those(if not digital) are two
copys ie, one for kitchen n for foh...
very similar to old skool books..
jasstardust - it would work if we wrote the bets out on a pad but the slips are scattered all over the place individually.
Ronnie dug out the old post about the expenses - 154k gross profit but came out of it with just about enough for a bowl o soup.
turn over 750k profit 15% making £113k. Fob profit £41k giving you £154k to play with.
Expenses;
SIS 19000
TURF 8000
COUPONS SLIPS 5000
GAMB COMM 1800
LICENCE 600
RENT 13000
RATES 3000
INSURANCE 600
LEVY 1000
FOB SHARE/RENT 8500
EPOS 4000
GAS/ELECTRIC/WATER 6000
BITS N BOBS 5000
BETTING TAX 23000 (INCL FOBS WHICH WILL COME SOON)
MAKING 115K
leaving you a profit of £39000.
Assuming you run it yourself (impossible but lets say you do) open at 9.30 till 9.30 7 days = 84 hours.
£39000 profit makes £750 per week at 84 hours means your earning £8.90 an hour and wont see daylight.
The form filling never ends, the gamb comm will talk to you like you are supplying heroin at the school gates, every night when its dark your waiting to be shot at/knifed/attacked .
The business will not get any busier it will only dwindle.
If you can get it for nowt and not tied in to any long rents, your only hope would be to get a few mugs on the phone (they are still out there) and just keep that under the counter.
You will find you can make an awful more that way than the other way.
You will be taking over a business that turns well over a million pounds, gives you a constant headache, and makes you buttons.
OR
you could sit in the corner of a busy boozer/working men's on a Sat or busy festival days and your expenses will be a pint and a pen and all you win is yours,
Taking on this shop will only line the pockets of everybody but yourself.
Oh I forgot another expense NEWSPAPERS £1600
Good Luck Either Way.
turn over 750k profit 15% making £113k. Fob profit £41k giving you £154k to play with.
Expenses;
SIS 19000
TURF 8000
COUPONS SLIPS 5000
GAMB COMM 1800
LICENCE 600
RENT 13000
RATES 3000
INSURANCE 600
LEVY 1000
FOB SHARE/RENT 8500
EPOS 4000
GAS/ELECTRIC/WATER 6000
BITS N BOBS 5000
BETTING TAX 23000 (INCL FOBS WHICH WILL COME SOON)
MAKING 115K
leaving you a profit of £39000.
Assuming you run it yourself (impossible but lets say you do) open at 9.30 till 9.30 7 days = 84 hours.
£39000 profit makes £750 per week at 84 hours means your earning £8.90 an hour and wont see daylight.
The form filling never ends, the gamb comm will talk to you like you are supplying heroin at the school gates, every night when its dark your waiting to be shot at/knifed/attacked .
The business will not get any busier it will only dwindle.
If you can get it for nowt and not tied in to any long rents, your only hope would be to get a few mugs on the phone (they are still out there) and just keep that under the counter.
You will find you can make an awful more that way than the other way.
You will be taking over a business that turns well over a million pounds, gives you a constant headache, and makes you buttons.
OR
you could sit in the corner of a busy boozer/working men's on a Sat or busy festival days and your expenses will be a pint and a pen and all you win is yours,
Taking on this shop will only line the pockets of everybody but yourself.
Oh I forgot another expense NEWSPAPERS £1600
Good Luck Either Way.
MR Than you so much that was the one I was looking for said many times otc going through the floor exes going through the roof.Never heard from home for tea for about a decade.
Hope you are well.Was you shop near Main Road.
Ronnie.
Hope you are well.Was you shop near Main Road.
Ronnie.
Little wonder the RP has been relentless on the looming tax
Curtains for them
Curtains for them
jasstardust - it would work if we wrote the bets out on a pad but the slips are scattered all over the place individually.
yes i see ware ya coming from now n after i posted reply earlier i did think about that n its obviosly
open to freud, hence why books went digital am presuming
yes i see ware ya coming from now n after i posted reply earlier i did think about that n its obviosly
open to freud, hence why books went digital am presuming
Read the write up in the RP, is was so precise on the numbers, have bookmakers indicated which shops they will close to The Betting and Gaming Council?
According to the BGC's analysis an increase in MGD to 50 per cent would cause 3,464 betting shop closures, 25,086 job losses, and reduce horseracing’s funding from betting shops, which comes via the levy and media rights payments, by £84m.
An increase to 40 per cent would lead to 2,912 closures, 21,088 job losses, and halve contributions to racing to £70m
A hike to 30 per cent would cause 1,992 closures, 14,425 job losses, and a £48m loss to racing, the BGC said.
This is before the withdrawl of bookmakers sponsorship of, Horse Racing, Football, Greyhound Racing, Darts, Rugby League, Snooker, Boxing etc. etc
It’s an act of economic vandalism against communities, workers and Britain’s sports, particularly Horse Racing.
Pubs and Clubs, Bingo Halls, Arcades and Casinos will also be massively impacted.
https://www.racingpost.com/news/britain/racing-tax/tax-proposals-would-close-3400-betting-shops-and-wipe-84m-from-racings-income-abG8M1N0Jar2/
According to the BGC's analysis an increase in MGD to 50 per cent would cause 3,464 betting shop closures, 25,086 job losses, and reduce horseracing’s funding from betting shops, which comes via the levy and media rights payments, by £84m.
An increase to 40 per cent would lead to 2,912 closures, 21,088 job losses, and halve contributions to racing to £70m
A hike to 30 per cent would cause 1,992 closures, 14,425 job losses, and a £48m loss to racing, the BGC said.
This is before the withdrawl of bookmakers sponsorship of, Horse Racing, Football, Greyhound Racing, Darts, Rugby League, Snooker, Boxing etc. etc
It’s an act of economic vandalism against communities, workers and Britain’s sports, particularly Horse Racing.
Pubs and Clubs, Bingo Halls, Arcades and Casinos will also be massively impacted.
https://www.racingpost.com/news/britain/racing-tax/tax-proposals-would-close-3400-betting-shops-and-wipe-84m-from-racings-income-abG8M1N0Jar2/
Great post. Sadly, I feel it is all too late to stop the onslaught.
I feel satisfied that I did my individual bit to try to stop it by three times pressing my M.P. ( who co-incidentally loved his football and enjoyed regular days at the racing ) on the matter. I also urged everyone on here to do likewise and feel sure that many did.
How we miss the Robin Cook’s of our past world who had many ears in parliament and stolidly supported and enjoyed Racing.
I feel satisfied that I did my individual bit to try to stop it by three times pressing my M.P. ( who co-incidentally loved his football and enjoyed regular days at the racing ) on the matter. I also urged everyone on here to do likewise and feel sure that many did.
How we miss the Robin Cook’s of our past world who had many ears in parliament and stolidly supported and enjoyed Racing.
Rationality can't defeat ideology. To these people, job losses are a necessary evil. Just collateral damage in the quest for overall good.
As RR will confirm many shops are operating at a small loss or breaking even but many firms let them gently roll on as its not going to sink the group and you never know what might happen and once gone they are unlikely to return
I buttonholed a Hills area manager who was in a local shop and he said most people dont realise the costs, like media rights, and showing SKY TNT Eurosport, etc and increase in NI contributions, and whatever else Ive forgotten
A business that has lost a chunk of shops now in danger of being finished off by an even worse chancellor than the last one. And her mantra was 'growth' Ha ha nice one Rache
What a disaster, but the hard core of Labour loons who hate gambling, like the idiot I have to suffer, won't givash1t, even though their constituents will very much
I tried with my MP who said the increase in gambling among wimmin and children was alarming. I pointed out that most gamblers were male and that she was supposed to be the MP geezers also but she could not wait to scarper
I buttonholed a Hills area manager who was in a local shop and he said most people dont realise the costs, like media rights, and showing SKY TNT Eurosport, etc and increase in NI contributions, and whatever else Ive forgotten
A business that has lost a chunk of shops now in danger of being finished off by an even worse chancellor than the last one. And her mantra was 'growth' Ha ha nice one Rache
What a disaster, but the hard core of Labour loons who hate gambling, like the idiot I have to suffer, won't givash1t, even though their constituents will very much
I tried with my MP who said the increase in gambling among wimmin and children was alarming. I pointed out that most gamblers were male and that she was supposed to be the MP geezers also but she could not wait to scarper
You have to remember the ideology. It's not really gambling they despise, per se. It's that thick people can't avoid succumbing to it. So how can they possibly walk past a bookmakers without being sucked in. It's the same mentality as taxing coke, or hiding chocolate from the checkout. Basically, thick people need all temptation taken away.
Maineroad - I was working in an indy shop when all the virtual racing began. I remember the attempted scams on the Steppledowns stuff. We also had a couple of people attempting the slow count trick on the greyhound racing.
We even had one of the guys from the hole in one double act trying to get his golf bet on.
Those were the days!
We even had one of the guys from the hole in one double act trying to get his golf bet on.
Those were the days!
Maineroad - I was working in an indy shop when all the virtual racing began. I remember the attempted scams on the Steppledowns stuff. We also had a couple of people attempting the slow count trick on the greyhound racing.
We even had one of the guys from the hole in one double act trying to get his golf bet on.
Those were the days!
We even had one of the guys from the hole in one double act trying to get his golf bet on.
Those were the days!
If they really cared, they would be campaigning against lotto, omaze, postcode lottery. These are pernicious forms of gambling, and do prey on some peoples' lack of mathematical prowess. A touch of false hope for the proles. But there are no virtue signalling points to be earned in that space, and 'profits go to charidee'.
Paddy Power owner cuts profit forecast sharply
Flutter, the world’s largest online betting company, sharply cut its full-year profit growth forecast on Wednesday, primarily due to another long winning streak by gamblers that increased its payouts.
Already number one in the booming US sports betting market through its FanDuel brand, Flutter and its partner CME Group also announced the launch of the FanDuel Predicts app next month to target what it described as a significant growth opportunity in the rapidly expanding event contracts market.
Event contracts allow investors to bet on the likelihood of specific events occurring, from sports and entertainment to politics and the economy.
Flutter estimated that the investment needed to “aggressively” expand the new business will reduce its group core profit by $40 million (€34.5 million) to $50 million in the fourth quarter and another $200 million to $300 million next year.
Flutter cut its full-year 2025 core profit forecast, to $2.9 billion from $3.3 billion, in August, mostly due to the run of customer-friendly sports results in the third quarter that only got worse in the first six weeks of the current quarter. Bookmakers tend to suffer when gamblers’ favourites win and chief executive Peter Jackson said Flutter had “complete conviction” in how it calculates odds after sports results have now gone against the Irish-founded group in the US for much of the last year.
Flutter’s third-quarter adjusted earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation (EBITDA) of $478 million, up 6% year-on-year, beat the $459 million average estimate of 17 analysts with LSEG SmartEstimate.
However, Flutter’s full-year outlook for 24 per cent year-on-year earnings growth was well below analysts’ expectations for earnings of $3.2 billion. While FanDuel Predicts will allow users to bet on specific events such as election outcomes or the performance of financial markets across almost the whole of the US, it will limit event contracts on sporting events to states where online sports betting is illegal.
As new states legalise online sports betting, Flutter will cease offering sports event contracts there and said it believes the boom in prediction markets will accelerate the legalisation of sports betting that offers tax revenues to states. - Reuters
Flutter, the world’s largest online betting company, sharply cut its full-year profit growth forecast on Wednesday, primarily due to another long winning streak by gamblers that increased its payouts.
Already number one in the booming US sports betting market through its FanDuel brand, Flutter and its partner CME Group also announced the launch of the FanDuel Predicts app next month to target what it described as a significant growth opportunity in the rapidly expanding event contracts market.
Event contracts allow investors to bet on the likelihood of specific events occurring, from sports and entertainment to politics and the economy.
Flutter estimated that the investment needed to “aggressively” expand the new business will reduce its group core profit by $40 million (€34.5 million) to $50 million in the fourth quarter and another $200 million to $300 million next year.
Flutter cut its full-year 2025 core profit forecast, to $2.9 billion from $3.3 billion, in August, mostly due to the run of customer-friendly sports results in the third quarter that only got worse in the first six weeks of the current quarter. Bookmakers tend to suffer when gamblers’ favourites win and chief executive Peter Jackson said Flutter had “complete conviction” in how it calculates odds after sports results have now gone against the Irish-founded group in the US for much of the last year.
Flutter’s third-quarter adjusted earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation (EBITDA) of $478 million, up 6% year-on-year, beat the $459 million average estimate of 17 analysts with LSEG SmartEstimate.
However, Flutter’s full-year outlook for 24 per cent year-on-year earnings growth was well below analysts’ expectations for earnings of $3.2 billion. While FanDuel Predicts will allow users to bet on specific events such as election outcomes or the performance of financial markets across almost the whole of the US, it will limit event contracts on sporting events to states where online sports betting is illegal.
As new states legalise online sports betting, Flutter will cease offering sports event contracts there and said it believes the boom in prediction markets will accelerate the legalisation of sports betting that offers tax revenues to states. - Reuters
Give it a rest cider - we've had 20+ years of the most liberalised gambling laws in the world. I'm using the word liberalised in the actual dictionary definition of the word btw - rather than your preferred use of the word which usually involves trying to demonise somebody that disagrees with you!
The 2005 Gambling Act was absolutely lauded by the big players in the Gambling Industry at the time. Share prices rocketed off the back of what was effectively the biggest ever loosening of regulation.
Yet, rather than just enjoy the fruits that this incredible opportunity and the new freedoms this offered to them, the gambling industry chose to go much further and to completely ignore even the most liberalised gambling regulations in the world.
Driven by pure greed (and emboldened by a regulator that was asleep at the wheel), they have driven a wagon and horses through even the most lax of regulations and protections - and used marketing, advertising, data and technological advancements to brazenly exploit people in every demographic. They have done that outwith the Act.
That's why we are where we are today.
For sure, some of our politicians (from all parties) don't have the first clue about gambling let alone the nature of addiction or problem gambling - but their instincts aren't ever going to be far wide of the mark given the actions of the industry. Your patronising, condescending and sneering assumptions that the people that have been exploited are "proles" or "lacking in mathematical prowess" or "thick people that succumb to temptation" also puts you firmly into the clueless bracket!
Some of the brightest people in the world still smoke, some of the cleverest people on the planet use drugs, some of the richest, most powerful and most intelligent people in the world are addicted to alcohol.
In that context (the reality of how addiction works) Why would you make the lazy assumption that that all gambling addicts are thick?
The 2005 Gambling Act was absolutely lauded by the big players in the Gambling Industry at the time. Share prices rocketed off the back of what was effectively the biggest ever loosening of regulation.
Yet, rather than just enjoy the fruits that this incredible opportunity and the new freedoms this offered to them, the gambling industry chose to go much further and to completely ignore even the most liberalised gambling regulations in the world.
Driven by pure greed (and emboldened by a regulator that was asleep at the wheel), they have driven a wagon and horses through even the most lax of regulations and protections - and used marketing, advertising, data and technological advancements to brazenly exploit people in every demographic. They have done that outwith the Act.
That's why we are where we are today.
For sure, some of our politicians (from all parties) don't have the first clue about gambling let alone the nature of addiction or problem gambling - but their instincts aren't ever going to be far wide of the mark given the actions of the industry. Your patronising, condescending and sneering assumptions that the people that have been exploited are "proles" or "lacking in mathematical prowess" or "thick people that succumb to temptation" also puts you firmly into the clueless bracket!
Some of the brightest people in the world still smoke, some of the cleverest people on the planet use drugs, some of the richest, most powerful and most intelligent people in the world are addicted to alcohol.
In that context (the reality of how addiction works) Why would you make the lazy assumption that that all gambling addicts are thick?
Ive given up smoking but stiil take a drinky-poo every now and again and again
And you can come off it n all. Youve been droning in simialr fashion quite long enough
We are where we are now, whatever has gone before and you cant blame them for maximising profits when the opportunity presented itself. The regulator is there and didnt see anything wrong and it wasnt illegal so be quiet and address the problem we have now
This calamitious administration has made an absolute cobblers of everything and now all are being asked to pay their 'fair share'
But theres nothing fair about a chancellor-chancer would more accurate, making a cobblers of everything and penalising everyone to make up for it. And she kept going on about growth. The only thing thats grown is everyones bills and the national debt.
Nobody in business thinks she is not a disaster, including Labour
In your desperation to exculpate the stupid Theeves, you came up with the notion that shops were on the way out so it didnt really matter. If they are then market forces should decide, it should not be the business of the UK Govt to help them into extinction
And you can come off it n all. Youve been droning in simialr fashion quite long enough
We are where we are now, whatever has gone before and you cant blame them for maximising profits when the opportunity presented itself. The regulator is there and didnt see anything wrong and it wasnt illegal so be quiet and address the problem we have now
This calamitious administration has made an absolute cobblers of everything and now all are being asked to pay their 'fair share'
But theres nothing fair about a chancellor-chancer would more accurate, making a cobblers of everything and penalising everyone to make up for it. And she kept going on about growth. The only thing thats grown is everyones bills and the national debt.
Nobody in business thinks she is not a disaster, including Labour
In your desperation to exculpate the stupid Theeves, you came up with the notion that shops were on the way out so it didnt really matter. If they are then market forces should decide, it should not be the business of the UK Govt to help them into extinction
[b]"stupid Theeves"[/b
Classic example of a mitoloism.
No further observations, Your Honour.
Classic example of a mitoloism.
No further observations, Your Honour.
"stupid Theeves"
Classic example of a mitoloism.
No further observations, Your Honour
Classic example of a mitoloism.
No further observations, Your Honour
Why would you make the lazy assumption that that all gambling addicts are thick?
I'm not! This is at the centre of the ideology I outlined. I do have an ideology of my own, adults should be free to make their own decisions, and be responsible for their own choices. Life should not be constructed to account for the lowest common denominator, as people making poor decisions and those resulting in poor outcomes will never be eliminated.
That's why we are where we are today.
What's the problem, exactly?
I'm not! This is at the centre of the ideology I outlined. I do have an ideology of my own, adults should be free to make their own decisions, and be responsible for their own choices. Life should not be constructed to account for the lowest common denominator, as people making poor decisions and those resulting in poor outcomes will never be eliminated.
That's why we are where we are today.
What's the problem, exactly?
Nov 13, 2025 -- 2:05PM, Cider wrote:
Why would you make the lazy assumption that that all gambling addicts are thick?I'm not! This is at the centre of the ideology I outlined. I do have an ideology of my own, adults should be free to make their own decisions, and be responsible for their own choices. Life should not be constructed to account for the lowest common denominator, as people making poor decisions and those resulting in poor outcomes will never be eliminated. That's why we are where we are today.What's the problem, exactly?
Completely agree, no matter what the books did or did not offer, the degenerates would have found a way to lose their money as they are just life's losers. If someone cannot control their vice, they cannot control it. Its not for the other 99.9% to pay the price of that. Its called personal responsibility alongside civil liberties.
When it comes to the activity driving this increase in gambling, the National Lottery is the nation’s favourite form of gambling and gaming by some margin.
In fact, of the £15.122 bn gross gambling yield seen in the 2022-23 financial year, the National Lottery accounted for 23%, with just remote gambling via casinos proving more profitable for the gambling industry.
However, with a one in 45 million chance of hitting the jackpot, the average consumer has more chance of being struck by lightning than winning the lottery. So who’s the real winner?
Figures from the Gambling Commission show that in the 2022-23 financial year, there were £8.184bn in total National Lottery sales.
£4.694bn of this contributed to the prize pot, while £1.709bn went towards good causes.
Retailers’ commissions stood at £255m and the licensee, Camelot, retained £544m. However, the biggest winner was the government, who bagged £982m in a single financial year as a result of the 12% lottery duty paid.
Why do most of the antis ignore this?
In fact, of the £15.122 bn gross gambling yield seen in the 2022-23 financial year, the National Lottery accounted for 23%, with just remote gambling via casinos proving more profitable for the gambling industry.
However, with a one in 45 million chance of hitting the jackpot, the average consumer has more chance of being struck by lightning than winning the lottery. So who’s the real winner?
Figures from the Gambling Commission show that in the 2022-23 financial year, there were £8.184bn in total National Lottery sales.
£4.694bn of this contributed to the prize pot, while £1.709bn went towards good causes.
Retailers’ commissions stood at £255m and the licensee, Camelot, retained £544m. However, the biggest winner was the government, who bagged £982m in a single financial year as a result of the 12% lottery duty paid.
Why do most of the antis ignore this?
It hasn't happened yet aand might not but the noises she is making are not good. for anyone
One of the many things people in power should know but seem not to, is that spiteful tax increases are subject to the law of diminishing returns, and the yield decreases, as it did with excise duty, which made her hole a bit bigger
The N etherlands increased gambling taxes and revunues nearly vanished altogether
One thing she could do but lacks the cobblers, is axe Hs2, the biggest white elephant in history in Britains history and future, when it becomes active 25 years late and 100 billion over budget and already obsolete
The sunk cost fallacy alive and well in Whitehall
She will not be around much longer, whatever happens
One of the many things people in power should know but seem not to, is that spiteful tax increases are subject to the law of diminishing returns, and the yield decreases, as it did with excise duty, which made her hole a bit bigger
The N etherlands increased gambling taxes and revunues nearly vanished altogether
One thing she could do but lacks the cobblers, is axe Hs2, the biggest white elephant in history in Britains history and future, when it becomes active 25 years late and 100 billion over budget and already obsolete
The sunk cost fallacy alive and well in Whitehall
She will not be around much longer, whatever happens
Cider 13 Nov 25 14:05
Why would you make the lazy assumption that that all gambling addicts are thick?
98% of betting shop punters have no idea what an overound is.
Why would you make the lazy assumption that that all gambling addicts are thick?
98% of betting shop punters have no idea what an overound is.
Poor old cider (and mitolo)
Imagine being so invested and obsessed with an ideology - that you can see (quite rightly) why people should be held responsible and pay a price for their own (entirely legal) choices and actions; but simultaneously just cannot get your head around corporations also being held responsible and paying a price for their choices and actions (even when those actions are illegal).
The actions of the individuals (the customers) have been entirely lawful and the actions of the corporations (the bookmakers) have been broadly illegal (for about 20 years). Any you want to hold the customers accountable and for them to take more personal responsibility
You are perfectly entitled not to like the 2005 Gambling Act (because it doesn't align with your ideology or you political beliefs) - but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist or that you can pretend it doesn't exist.
You might as well be arguing that you don't like the laws around drink driving and therefore you have the right and the choice to drink drive. The basis of everything you are saying is that flawed.
To take that analogy to it's conclusion (ignoring the law of the land because you don't much like it), you are effectively saying that a law abiding pedestrian that get his by a drunk driver, is somehow at fault as he should have taken more personal responsibility for his actions and made better choices in order to have avoided getting hit.
Only one party has acted illegally. None of your beliefs, likes, dislikes or ideologies can alter the reality of that fact or that it is why we are, where we are today.
Imagine being so invested and obsessed with an ideology - that you can see (quite rightly) why people should be held responsible and pay a price for their own (entirely legal) choices and actions; but simultaneously just cannot get your head around corporations also being held responsible and paying a price for their choices and actions (even when those actions are illegal).
The actions of the individuals (the customers) have been entirely lawful and the actions of the corporations (the bookmakers) have been broadly illegal (for about 20 years). Any you want to hold the customers accountable and for them to take more personal responsibility
You are perfectly entitled not to like the 2005 Gambling Act (because it doesn't align with your ideology or you political beliefs) - but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist or that you can pretend it doesn't exist.
You might as well be arguing that you don't like the laws around drink driving and therefore you have the right and the choice to drink drive. The basis of everything you are saying is that flawed.
To take that analogy to it's conclusion (ignoring the law of the land because you don't much like it), you are effectively saying that a law abiding pedestrian that get his by a drunk driver, is somehow at fault as he should have taken more personal responsibility for his actions and made better choices in order to have avoided getting hit.
Only one party has acted illegally. None of your beliefs, likes, dislikes or ideologies can alter the reality of that fact or that it is why we are, where we are today.
Nov 13, 2025 -- 4:41PM, The Management wrote:
Poor old cider (and mitolo) Imagine being so invested and obsessed with an ideology - that you can see (quite rightly) why people should be held responsible and pay a price for their own (entirely legal) choices and actions; but simultaneously just cannot get your head around corporations also being held responsible and paying a price for their choices and actions (even when those actions are illegal).The actions of the individuals (the customers) have been entirely lawful and the actions of the corporations (the bookmakers) have been broadly illegal (for about 20 years). Any you want to hold the customers accountable and for them to take more personal responsibility You are perfectly entitled not to like the 2005 Gambling Act (because it doesn't align with your ideology or you political beliefs) - but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist or that you can pretend it doesn't exist.You might as well be arguing that you don't like the laws around drink driving and therefore you have the right and the choice to drink drive. The basis of everything you are saying is that flawed. To take that analogy to it's conclusion (ignoring the law of the land because you don't much like it), you are effectively saying that a law abiding pedestrian that get his by a drunk driver, is somehow at fault as he should have taken more personal responsibility for his actions and made better choices in order to have avoided getting hit.Only one party has acted illegally. None of your beliefs, likes, dislikes or ideologies can alter the reality of that fact or that it is why we are, where we are today.
The Gambling Act was a nonsense bit of ill thought out legislation which was rushed through to help ride the wave that was "new labour", but in reality is has no real standing at all. Certainly not the most thought out, definitely not one that the big corps needed to really pay too much attention to as when has been challenged various occasions its been found to be flawed....
So you can just ignore it?
Your argument is exactly the same as that of cider & mitolo. You want to pick and choose which laws should be enforced - based on your personal opinion of them.
Your argument is exactly the same as that of cider & mitolo. You want to pick and choose which laws should be enforced - based on your personal opinion of them.
I dont say it can be ignored, but it certainly isnt the most enforced bill to pass parliament. They know it has flaws, its been successfully challenged and at times even on the basis of the acts it superseded. The books approach has not been ideal, but certainly not "criminal" in the way you suggest. What should never have been allowed to happen was bookmakers being within so many yards of a cashpoint or having the ability to take payment on any form of card.
The rest of the narrative regarding those who cant control themselves when it comes to gambling, drinking, shopping, drugs is sad but each individuals responsibility and NO ONE elses. Its not the guns that kill people remember....
The rest of the narrative regarding those who cant control themselves when it comes to gambling, drinking, shopping, drugs is sad but each individuals responsibility and NO ONE elses. Its not the guns that kill people remember....
I'm a big believer in personal responsibility levelbreak - but you only have to google the words "bookmaker fined for illegal activity" to see why we are where we are today.
Lots of repetition in the results - but also plenty of variety and by the time you get to about the 200th result, it's not hard to see why politicians (of any flavour) might want or feel the need to step in and take action.
If you google "bookmaker customer fined for illegal activity" ironically you get the same results - but AI very kindly points out that of course there are no instances of customers being fined for being in breach of the Gambling Act.
Whether you like it or not - The Act (the most liberalised Gambling Act in the world at the time) puts the onus and the responsibility onto the behaviour of the "Bookmaker" not the customer.
Lots of repetition in the results - but also plenty of variety and by the time you get to about the 200th result, it's not hard to see why politicians (of any flavour) might want or feel the need to step in and take action.
If you google "bookmaker customer fined for illegal activity" ironically you get the same results - but AI very kindly points out that of course there are no instances of customers being fined for being in breach of the Gambling Act.
Whether you like it or not - The Act (the most liberalised Gambling Act in the world at the time) puts the onus and the responsibility onto the behaviour of the "Bookmaker" not the customer.
Whether you like it or not - The Act (the most liberalised Gambling Act in the world at the time) puts the onus and the responsibility onto the behaviour of the "Bookmaker" not the customer.
Anybody arguing differently or trying to shift the onus onto the customer is clearly ignorant of the Act.
They're entitled to argue that the Act should be changed because they don't like it, don't agree with it, or it doesn't align with their ideology. But while the Act is the Act as it stands (and as it has stood for 20 years) - they're just talking ideological or opinionated bollix.
Anybody arguing differently or trying to shift the onus onto the customer is clearly ignorant of the Act.
They're entitled to argue that the Act should be changed because they don't like it, don't agree with it, or it doesn't align with their ideology. But while the Act is the Act as it stands (and as it has stood for 20 years) - they're just talking ideological or opinionated bollix.
That's an awful lot of hot air TM. I've never stated that stakeholders shouldn't be compliant with the law. The state picks and chooses when it does and when it doesn't want to uphold the law. That's obviously not just applicable to the gambling space.
As we understand it, the changes proposed in the upcoming budget have nothing to do with upholding the law. Or nominally reducing gambling harm.
As we understand it, the changes proposed in the upcoming budget have nothing to do with upholding the law. Or nominally reducing gambling harm.
cider - If you think there no relationship between what might happen in the budget and all the breaches of the Act and all the (self-inflicted) terribly negative coverage of the gambling/gaming Industry in recent years, which resulted in the White Paper, etc, etc. That's you're prerogative.
The pretend "bookmakers" (ably assisted by the Racing Post) have made a ham-fisted and short-sighted attempt to save their casino, slots and bingo empires from the White Paper. They did that, by putting forward (offering up) Racing as the more acceptable face of their empires (a defensive front, if you like), exemplifying Horse Racing as a bit of harmless family fun, enjoyed regularly by all participants and causing no harm. Steeped in heritage, a part of our culture, our history, our Britishness, etc ,etc.
Back in the real world - they've merely succeeded in their attempts at getting all gambling lumped together (gambling & gaming, racing & roulette, racing & slots, racing & bingo) because at the time, it suited them to try to do so.
As such, realistically, now who could blame anybody for thinking that all gambling should be taxed the same? If the bookmakers themselves (and racing up to a point, by going along with the bookmakers) have persistently said that all forms of gambling are the same.
If racing bets get a tax rise - the Bookmakers, the Racing Post, (and to a slightly lesser extent) the Rcaing Industry will absolutely have brought that on themselves.
Back in the real world - they've merely succeeded in their attempts at getting all gambling lumped together (gambling & gaming, racing & roulette, racing & slots, racing & bingo) because at the time, it suited them to try to do so.
As such, realistically, now who could blame anybody for thinking that all gambling should be taxed the same? If the bookmakers themselves (and racing up to a point, by going along with the bookmakers) have persistently said that all forms of gambling are the same.
If racing bets get a tax rise - the Bookmakers, the Racing Post, (and to a slightly lesser extent) the Rcaing Industry will absolutely have brought that on themselves.
Cider is correct in that any legislation is only worth the paper its written on if the current government choose to apply it. For the past 10-15 years across all kinds of legislation and Acts, governments have chosen to ignore or not apply said legislation, thus redering any Act subject to challenges, debate and questions about whether its actually worth following.
Not many industries have such a fine track record (pun intended) as the Racing Industry at getting "hoisted by their own petard". So none of that is really a surprise. Generations of amateurs and bunglers.
But to see the normally lobbying savvy, organised, cunning, forward thinking, strategically aware "bookmaking" Industry make such a series of self-destructive, self-inflicted, schoolboy errors and blunders is mind-boggling imo.
Then again, all of their best people are probably 100% focussed on exploiting much bigger emerging markets like the US.
But to see the normally lobbying savvy, organised, cunning, forward thinking, strategically aware "bookmaking" Industry make such a series of self-destructive, self-inflicted, schoolboy errors and blunders is mind-boggling imo.
Then again, all of their best people are probably 100% focussed on exploiting much bigger emerging markets like the US.
TM.. what do you mean by exploited? I thought the fucntion of a business was to look for opportunities where they can generate profit, create value in the business which then creates jobs and wealth. I did not get the memo where they need to protect the simpletons who are a danger to themselves every time they leave the house or log on to a tech device....
It is indeed a valid point levelbreak. The Regulator did equally as good a job as the bookmakers, of more or less ignoring the Act for 10-15 years! - I think they were more interested in collecting fees tbh! But that was always going to result in a shake-up at some point and also make it worse when things finally came to a head.
Blame the police? As a defence/excuse it's pretty weak imo. Getting away with something on multiple occasions or for a long time because the police are incompetent, doesn't typically cut-it as a defence.
Blame the police? As a defence/excuse it's pretty weak imo. Getting away with something on multiple occasions or for a long time because the police are incompetent, doesn't typically cut-it as a defence.
exploit
verb
1) make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource), utilise, make use of, put to use, use, use to good advantage, turn/put to good use, make the most of, capitalise on, benefit from,
2) make use of (a situation) in a way considered unfair or underhand
^ Take your pick. One is admirable, the other, not so much so and not at all if illegal.
verb
1) make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource), utilise, make use of, put to use, use, use to good advantage, turn/put to good use, make the most of, capitalise on, benefit from,
2) make use of (a situation) in a way considered unfair or underhand
^ Take your pick. One is admirable, the other, not so much so and not at all if illegal.
Bookmakers had the opportunity to exploit (in the good sense) all the opportunities that the 2005 Act presented to them. They chose to also exploit them in the other sense as well. Hence all the fines, bad publicity, the White Paper, etc, etc.
It seems they might now find themselves being held accountable for their actions, something which apparently we all agree on.
It seems they might now find themselves being held accountable for their actions, something which apparently we all agree on.
I would argue they have not exploited anyone.. clever marketing has been used and some pretty shady tactics. I dont like bookmakers at all for the way they operate their business models these days, however I do feel they an addict is responsible for themselves and their own actions. It is not for anyone else to have their freedoms of choice taken away by the state, the GC or anyone else...
just ma ten pence worth but
i reckon the manager is pretty
much on the bullseye
its all down to personall
responsiblity
end of...
innit..!!?
i reckon the manager is pretty
much on the bullseye
its all down to personall
responsiblity
end of...
innit..!!?
levelbreak13 Nov 25 19:36Joined: 19 Sep 25 | Topic/replies: 40 | Blogger: levelbreak's blog
It is not for anyone else to have their freedoms of choice taken away by the state, the GC or anyone else...
A lot of people have had their "freedoms" taken away from them by somebody else - taken away from them by the Bookmakers! Your "right" or "freedom" to bet on whatever you want, whenever you want, to whatever stake you want - is a pure fiction - unless you are a loser, if you win or even look like winning, that "right" and that "freedom" was taken away from you by the BOOKMAKERS a long time ago.
In that context (which is the reality) you are effectively wanting people to join a campaign for losers to be able to chose and have the freedom to be allowed to lose more, to lose more quickly or to lose everything they have. You are gonna have an uphill struggle imo getting public support or political support for that campaign. That's effectively what you are asking for (in the complete absence of any bookmakers willing to take business from winners).
It's a tough sell to anybody that isn't already a problem gambler, an addict or of course a winner on a betting exchange!
It is not for anyone else to have their freedoms of choice taken away by the state, the GC or anyone else...
A lot of people have had their "freedoms" taken away from them by somebody else - taken away from them by the Bookmakers! Your "right" or "freedom" to bet on whatever you want, whenever you want, to whatever stake you want - is a pure fiction - unless you are a loser, if you win or even look like winning, that "right" and that "freedom" was taken away from you by the BOOKMAKERS a long time ago.
In that context (which is the reality) you are effectively wanting people to join a campaign for losers to be able to chose and have the freedom to be allowed to lose more, to lose more quickly or to lose everything they have. You are gonna have an uphill struggle imo getting public support or political support for that campaign. That's effectively what you are asking for (in the complete absence of any bookmakers willing to take business from winners).
It's a tough sell to anybody that isn't already a problem gambler, an addict or of course a winner on a betting exchange!
TM.. where was there ever a written right to be able to bet? Are you living in some warped parallel universe? Its a contract between two parties and the last time I checked the contract had to be understood and agreed by both sides before being implemented.
No campaign needed, I have no sympathy for those that lose their jobs, livelihoods or relationships etc from not being able to control themselves. If like many, someone cannot get their money on with the bookmakers, there are many other avenues. Exchanges, Spread firms, Tote or the local publican if they so wish.
No campaign needed, I have no sympathy for those that lose their jobs, livelihoods or relationships etc from not being able to control themselves. If like many, someone cannot get their money on with the bookmakers, there are many other avenues. Exchanges, Spread firms, Tote or the local publican if they so wish.
evelbreak13 Nov 25 19:36Joined: 19 Sep 25 | Topic/replies: 40 | Blogger: levelbreak's blog
It is not for anyone else to have their freedoms of choice taken away by the state, the GC or anyone else...
Apologies - when you typed this ^ I somehow thought you were complaining about having freedoms and rights taken away.
I pointed out that you never had such things - with which you now seem to agree. Job's a good un.
It is not for anyone else to have their freedoms of choice taken away by the state, the GC or anyone else...
Apologies - when you typed this ^ I somehow thought you were complaining about having freedoms and rights taken away.
I pointed out that you never had such things - with which you now seem to agree. Job's a good un.
go for the hotel manager
your reet inmy eyee...
i candisagree here n there
but thats what opionions are
based upon
your reet inmy eyee...
i candisagree here n there
but thats what opionions are
based upon
From a personal experience when my defence provided a summary of my gambling i.e amount of bets , times, countries,type of event and Stakes it certainly made for grim reading my barrister attempted to shift majority of blame onto bookmakers, judges response on sentencing was from the evidence provided nobody threatened the defendant in anyway to enter or place an online bet and while there should be some sort of protections in place for obviously problem gamblers this is not relevant here . The defendant is 100% responsible for his own actions.
Now many years later and a second chance in life I genuinely have to agree not ever once did anyone force me to place a bet except my own brain absolutely crazy in hindsight.
For what its worth those that are in the height of addiction cannot see any other way out it truly does take a "rock bottom " moment thankfully I survived my first and only one unfortunately so many don't.
Now many years later and a second chance in life I genuinely have to agree not ever once did anyone force me to place a bet except my own brain absolutely crazy in hindsight.
For what its worth those that are in the height of addiction cannot see any other way out it truly does take a "rock bottom " moment thankfully I survived my first and only one unfortunately so many don't.
Dont seem to be rude Jacko, but if I had your previous life I wouldnt be anywhere near a gambling forum.?
I understand what you mean Glasgow but I actually love horse-racing and all it entails it intrigues me immensely, it's truly amazing to watch the daily shenanigans without having a vested interest. Gambling took up my whole life for so many years nothing else mattered. Today is so different I look at the carry on now and say who in name of fxk did i waste so much of my life thinking I could pre judge animals running in a field along with fck knows what else i can watch all day if i am doing nothing else and no bet it makes for a very different perspective
Glad its working for you Jacko. I would need the newsagent to cut out the racing pages before buying a paper 
everyone is different and as I said before Good Luck.
everyone is different and as I said before Good Luck.
Thanks Glasgow and likewise wish you the best of luck . I live a simple life now no lies no ducking and diving looking over my shoulder missing for hours at time humours that followed thankfully I found honesty in my life and I am eternally grateful for it
The Management Joined: 27 Dec 00
Replies: 1193513 Nov 25 16:41
Poor old cider (and mitolo)
You might as well be arguing that you don't like the laws around drink driving and therefore you have the right and the choice to drink drive. The basis of everything you are saying is that flawed.
To take that analogy to it's conclusion (ignoring the law of the land because you don't much like it), you are effectively saying that a law abiding pedestrian that get his by a drunk driver, is somehow at fault as he should have taken more personal responsibility for his actions and made better choices in order to have avoided getting hit.
As susual you evade. Youve said all this about the gambling act ad nauseam so stop. You totally refuse to venture an opinion on what is potentially in the pipeline, so desperate are to remove all blame from this calamitous administration
Bookmakers will not be bring in damaging new increases that might crush them and others, this Govt. will. Not what the 'growth' Govt. is supposed to be about. Whats gone before is not a reason for spiteful damaging tax increases
But this is the worst bit; You bring in utterly spurious 'analogies', pin them on your opponent and then argue against them
You brought up 'drink driving', nobody else. Then you say if a pedestrian is run over its their fault, if you follow it to its conclusion. eh?
Utter claptrap, and entirely typical. All the time you fill freds up with your nonsensical bogus equivalents that are irrelevant and only expose the vacuity of your silly argument. Try and stick to the point
You will not, of course because whatever point you had was exhausted long ago. You never answer a question or maintain a position, always defelcting and if that doesnt work, you leg it
Replies: 1193513 Nov 25 16:41
Poor old cider (and mitolo)
You might as well be arguing that you don't like the laws around drink driving and therefore you have the right and the choice to drink drive. The basis of everything you are saying is that flawed.
To take that analogy to it's conclusion (ignoring the law of the land because you don't much like it), you are effectively saying that a law abiding pedestrian that get his by a drunk driver, is somehow at fault as he should have taken more personal responsibility for his actions and made better choices in order to have avoided getting hit.
As susual you evade. Youve said all this about the gambling act ad nauseam so stop. You totally refuse to venture an opinion on what is potentially in the pipeline, so desperate are to remove all blame from this calamitous administration
Bookmakers will not be bring in damaging new increases that might crush them and others, this Govt. will. Not what the 'growth' Govt. is supposed to be about. Whats gone before is not a reason for spiteful damaging tax increases
But this is the worst bit; You bring in utterly spurious 'analogies', pin them on your opponent and then argue against them
You brought up 'drink driving', nobody else. Then you say if a pedestrian is run over its their fault, if you follow it to its conclusion. eh?
Utter claptrap, and entirely typical. All the time you fill freds up with your nonsensical bogus equivalents that are irrelevant and only expose the vacuity of your silly argument. Try and stick to the point
You will not, of course because whatever point you had was exhausted long ago. You never answer a question or maintain a position, always defelcting and if that doesnt work, you leg it
Comparing a punter wilfully doing the lot to a ped killed by a drink driver, is, erm, an interesting analogy
He can't help it
Look back at all his incredibly prolix posts
Bogus 'analogies' everywhere, some of them bizarre
Look back at all his incredibly prolix posts
Bogus 'analogies' everywhere, some of them bizarre
As an analogy, it's deliberately extreme cider - to make the point and highlight how ridiculous and extreme your views are.
It doesn't really matter what the offence committed is - it's totally academic. I could have picked any number of offences.
When rules/regulations/laws or Acts of Parliament are broken, normal, rational people don't try to shift the blame or the accountability or the responsibility onto the person that has suffered the loss, injury or consequences as a result of the offence being committed by the offender.
The political/ideological rabbit hole that you've gone down has caused you to lose any sense of objectivity.
If you want to rant about people taking personal responsibility for their own actions - that's fine, start a thread, I'd probably agree with you on much of it - but it's a completely different topic has no bearing on the Gambling Act whatsoever - which as a condition of licence places all of the responsibility with the Bookmaker.
Personal/individual responsibility has got absolutely nothing to do with why the Gambling Act and very little to do with the current predicament the Gambling Industry finds itself in. They've brought that entirely on themselves; initially by being in constant and repeated breach of the Gambling Act.
It's then gone steadily downhill for them because of how badly they've handled it. They've also then compounded it with the uncharacteristically short-sighted and strategically flawed way that they have reacted to the events and developments (initially triggered by their own actions) that have flowed on from there.
It doesn't really matter what the offence committed is - it's totally academic. I could have picked any number of offences.
When rules/regulations/laws or Acts of Parliament are broken, normal, rational people don't try to shift the blame or the accountability or the responsibility onto the person that has suffered the loss, injury or consequences as a result of the offence being committed by the offender.
The political/ideological rabbit hole that you've gone down has caused you to lose any sense of objectivity.
If you want to rant about people taking personal responsibility for their own actions - that's fine, start a thread, I'd probably agree with you on much of it - but it's a completely different topic has no bearing on the Gambling Act whatsoever - which as a condition of licence places all of the responsibility with the Bookmaker.
Personal/individual responsibility has got absolutely nothing to do with why the Gambling Act and very little to do with the current predicament the Gambling Industry finds itself in. They've brought that entirely on themselves; initially by being in constant and repeated breach of the Gambling Act.
It's then gone steadily downhill for them because of how badly they've handled it. They've also then compounded it with the uncharacteristically short-sighted and strategically flawed way that they have reacted to the events and developments (initially triggered by their own actions) that have flowed on from there.
Of course the alternative view to all of this being self-inflicted: is that a rag-tag collection of amateur activists and campaigners, spearheaded the purple-haired commie woman and IDS (a washed up ex-leader of the Conservative Party) have somehow conspired to bring the Gambling Industry in the UK to it's knees!
See whaT I mean?
repeating the same old stuff and steadfastly refuses to adress anything he finds a bit tricky, over and over
Not that he has to, but given his relentless prolixity and badgering of others its a bit rum, is it not?
repeating the same old stuff and steadfastly refuses to adress anything he finds a bit tricky, over and over
Not that he has to, but given his relentless prolixity and badgering of others its a bit rum, is it not?
Nov 14, 2025 -- 1:44PM, The Management wrote:
Of course the alternative view to all of this being self-inflicted: is that a rag-tag collection of amateur activists and campaigners, spearheaded the purple-haired commie woman and IDS (a washed up ex-leader of the Conservative Party) have somehow conspired to bring the Gambling Industry in the UK to it's knees!
But this is exactly what has happened. Gambling has been around for centuries with no issues, persons that are the horror story like CH and IDS sitting in parliament are the problem..nothing else.
I've seen the light mitolo. The arguments that you and cider have put forward are overwhelming.
The Industry is blameless. It has strived to uphold the law and act with fairness and integrity.
The laws they did break persistently for about 15 years are silly and minor ones that I don't like anyway.
Punters have put the Gambling Industry into the position they currently find themselves in, by not taking enough personal responsibility for their actions.
Coupled with the actions of that Radicalised Lefty and political heavyweight - Iain Duncan Smith.
The Industry is blameless. It has strived to uphold the law and act with fairness and integrity.
The laws they did break persistently for about 15 years are silly and minor ones that I don't like anyway.
Punters have put the Gambling Industry into the position they currently find themselves in, by not taking enough personal responsibility for their actions.
Coupled with the actions of that Radicalised Lefty and political heavyweight - Iain Duncan Smith.
You are not being honest, thats not what was said and please leave others out of it. Answer the valid point I made or dont. Please do not put up an answer to a question not asked. here it is again. I doubt you will
As usual you evade. Youve said all this about the gambling act ad nauseam so stop. You totally refuse to venture an opinion on what is potentially in the pipeline, so desperate are to remove all blame from this calamitous administration
Bookmakers will not be bring in damaging new increases that might crush them and others, this Govt. will. Not what the 'growth' Govt. is supposed to be about. Whats gone before is not a reason for spiteful damaging tax increases
But this is the worst bit; You bring in utterly spurious 'analogies', pin them on your opponent and then argue against them
You brought up 'drink driving', nobody else. Then you say if a pedestrian is run over its their fault, if you follow it to its conclusion. eh?
Utter claptrap, and entirely typical. All the time you fill freds up with your nonsensical bogus equivalents that are irrelevant and only expose the vacuity of your silly argument. Try and stick to the point
You will not, of course because whatever point you had was exhausted long ago. You never answer a question or maintain a position, always defelcting and if that doesnt work, you leg it
As usual you evade. Youve said all this about the gambling act ad nauseam so stop. You totally refuse to venture an opinion on what is potentially in the pipeline, so desperate are to remove all blame from this calamitous administration
Bookmakers will not be bring in damaging new increases that might crush them and others, this Govt. will. Not what the 'growth' Govt. is supposed to be about. Whats gone before is not a reason for spiteful damaging tax increases
But this is the worst bit; You bring in utterly spurious 'analogies', pin them on your opponent and then argue against them
You brought up 'drink driving', nobody else. Then you say if a pedestrian is run over its their fault, if you follow it to its conclusion. eh?
Utter claptrap, and entirely typical. All the time you fill freds up with your nonsensical bogus equivalents that are irrelevant and only expose the vacuity of your silly argument. Try and stick to the point
You will not, of course because whatever point you had was exhausted long ago. You never answer a question or maintain a position, always defelcting and if that doesnt work, you leg it
Nov 14, 2025 -- 2:25PM, The Management wrote:
I've seen the light mitolo. The arguments that you and cider have put forward are overwhelming.The Industry is blameless. It has strived to uphold the law and act with fairness and integrity. The laws they did break persistently for about 15 years are silly and minor ones that I don't like anyway. Punters have put the Gambling Industry into the position they currently find themselves in, by not taking enough personal responsibility for their actions.Coupled with the actions of that Radicalised Lefty and political heavyweight - Iain Duncan Smith.
In fairness IDS can often be found just to the left of Corbyn on many policies so not sure of your argument with this point? You clearly wish to blame to those pesky companies for wanting to have a business model which generates a profit. Spend what you like folks, create debt all over the place without any fear, the state will wrap you in cotton wool and absolve you of any responsibility.....
There's nothing "spurious" about the analogy mitolo - I openly admitted it's deliberately very extreme - being objective doesn't seem to hit home to people incapable of objectivity.
It really wouldn't need any kind of analogy at all if you weren't mentally "owned" by your narrow-mindedness.
It's this simple and it's inarguable:
When you break the law, the rules or the regulations that govern you - you are the perpetrator of the "offence", you are to blame, you are held accountable and you are held responsible.
Under what circumstances do you try to shift the blame and the responsibility away from the perpetrator or the "bad actor" and onto the person on the receiving end of the offence?
If you wouldn't do it for a drunk driver, a mugger, a burglar - why would you do it for a bookmaker that has offended?
Additionally when you break the rules, regulations or law persistently and over a couple of decades - are you handing ammunition to your (initially tiny and insignificant) band of detractors? Of course you are! The detractors and "antis" were getting absolutely nowhere fast on their own.
These past 6 or 7 years especially (but also for about 12 years before that also) it must feel like Christmas every day to them! The big bookmakers have provided enough ammunition to their detractors for them to win World War III! - never mind to cause a lot of financial and reputational damage to an Industry, that most impartial people instinctively, probably already felt was a bit of a menace.
If you look at the actions and the decisions taken collectively by the big firms - They literally couldn't have managed any worse if Gerald Ratner had been given executive control of UK bookmaking!
It really wouldn't need any kind of analogy at all if you weren't mentally "owned" by your narrow-mindedness.
It's this simple and it's inarguable:
When you break the law, the rules or the regulations that govern you - you are the perpetrator of the "offence", you are to blame, you are held accountable and you are held responsible.
Under what circumstances do you try to shift the blame and the responsibility away from the perpetrator or the "bad actor" and onto the person on the receiving end of the offence?
If you wouldn't do it for a drunk driver, a mugger, a burglar - why would you do it for a bookmaker that has offended?
Additionally when you break the rules, regulations or law persistently and over a couple of decades - are you handing ammunition to your (initially tiny and insignificant) band of detractors? Of course you are! The detractors and "antis" were getting absolutely nowhere fast on their own.
These past 6 or 7 years especially (but also for about 12 years before that also) it must feel like Christmas every day to them! The big bookmakers have provided enough ammunition to their detractors for them to win World War III! - never mind to cause a lot of financial and reputational damage to an Industry, that most impartial people instinctively, probably already felt was a bit of a menace.
If you look at the actions and the decisions taken collectively by the big firms - They literally couldn't have managed any worse if Gerald Ratner had been given executive control of UK bookmaking!
"I handed my 4rse on a plate to my detractors. Should I stand down? - nah, fck it, lets roll the dice in the US!"
Narrow-minded? You dont believe that
Anyway, we know about whats gone and please shut up about it. This is what I think; How about you? Please 'school' me as you do others. My hand is up and I need to be educated
This calamitious administration has made an absolute cobblers of everything and now all are being asked to pay their 'fair share'
But theres nothing fair about a chancellor-chancer would more accurate, making a cobblers of everything and penalising everyone to make up for it. And she kept going on about growth. The only thing thats grown is everyones bills and the national debt.
Nobody in business thinks she is not a disaster, including Labour
If they are to close then market forces should decide, it should not be the business of the UK Govt to help them into extinction
Bookmakers will not be bring in damaging new increases that might crush them and others, this Govt. will. Not what the 'growth' Govt. is supposed to be about. Whats gone before is not a reason for spiteful damaging tax increases
Anyway, we know about whats gone and please shut up about it. This is what I think; How about you? Please 'school' me as you do others. My hand is up and I need to be educated
This calamitious administration has made an absolute cobblers of everything and now all are being asked to pay their 'fair share'
But theres nothing fair about a chancellor-chancer would more accurate, making a cobblers of everything and penalising everyone to make up for it. And she kept going on about growth. The only thing thats grown is everyones bills and the national debt.
Nobody in business thinks she is not a disaster, including Labour
If they are to close then market forces should decide, it should not be the business of the UK Govt to help them into extinction
Bookmakers will not be bring in damaging new increases that might crush them and others, this Govt. will. Not what the 'growth' Govt. is supposed to be about. Whats gone before is not a reason for spiteful damaging tax increases
^ And there we have it. You've said what you were desperate to say - you've got a politically and ideologically motivated rant off your chest - even though it has no real relevance to the topic. It's all down to Labour.
Who will (most likely) raise the rate of Gambling Taxes? It's a Labour Government, you're right! - that's a fact.
Well done for managing to state at least that one fact. Don't worry about the causes or any of the other facts that brought us here, don't worry about the previous govt that kicked it all off with their White Paper, don't worry about what the "bookmakers" have done to facilitate and accelerate their situation; erase all of that from your memory.
The reality of all those facts, just doesn't fit in with the rant that you wanted to have. Let's draw a line under all of that. Bygones!
Who will (most likely) raise the rate of Gambling Taxes? It's a Labour Government, you're right! - that's a fact.
Well done for managing to state at least that one fact. Don't worry about the causes or any of the other facts that brought us here, don't worry about the previous govt that kicked it all off with their White Paper, don't worry about what the "bookmakers" have done to facilitate and accelerate their situation; erase all of that from your memory.
The reality of all those facts, just doesn't fit in with the rant that you wanted to have. Let's draw a line under all of that. Bygones!
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