brexit

all gina millers fault, why cant their just accept they lost, they say its not about stopping brexit but it is defo about delaying it and stopping exit of the single market

Wrong forum.

Well, the EU costs us £350Million PER WEEK!
It's unbelievable to me that anyone thinks that's acceptable for a membership of what exactly?
A club that tells us what to do and when to do it.
I just don't get anyone wanting to be a part of it!

yes, but we do get some of that 350 million back

The remainers didn't lose anything stating that the UK had to withdraw from the EU, it's just that many of the Brexit voters were clueless as to what they were actually voting on. The Brexit referendum like all of them was never legally binding considering parliament is sovereign and so can if it chooses to have the final word via MPs voting to remain or leave.

The irony is that many Brexit voters repeated the line about returning sovereignty to the UK parliament (despite you suspecting that they had no idea what that actually meant) thereby giving UK MPs the power to make decisions affecting the UK, as opposed to the EU doing so. Yet now those same Brexit voters suddenly don't want the UK parliament/UK MPs to exercise that power by voting on whether the UK remains or leaves the EU.

To use an analogy, it's like a group of friends deciding to go out for a meal and everyone votes to nominate another friend from the group to decide which kind of restaurant they will go to. Then someone who if they had won would have chosen Chinese, gets the hump and doesn't want that friend who won the vote to get their choice of going Italian for example, so complain that they thought they were actually voting on which type of restaurant everyone was going to, rather than voting on who got to choose.

Good grief, people still telling others that they didn't know what they were voting for, how patronising.

I thought everyone in Wakefield went to bed at 11.30 there's always one.

You must be a Syrian refugee who can't sleep

£350m per week contribution to the EU = £18.2bn a year, are you for real?

We could give it all to the N.H.S

We could stop trading with the E.U. and buy Champagne, Cheese, B.M.W's ,Mercedes Benz and Audi's from Macro.
We could stop buying all our clothes shoes and other goods from China and other third world countries and
make our own shoes and clothes and trade them with the rest of the world I'm pretty sure with all those
rich people in India they would be happy to buy our shoes and other products.

More inane ramblings from the forum idiot.

what about the billions northern Ireland get in grants from the EU,THE UK will have to take on that bill once they leave.

It wasn't on the ballot paper nor mentioned in the rich vs poor debate, anti-Globalist debate, anti-immigration debate and anti-E.U debate.

Good grief, people still telling others that they didn't know what they were voting for, how patronising.

Thing is, it is obvious that many people didn't, seeing as we still don't know now what it means do we, not 1 person in the country knows or is even sure of the correct process or the end result! Anyone that thought we would have the ref and that was that, it's done, obviously wasn't aware of all the facts on that matter so why should they be on anything else to do with it? It is not their fault but the whole wretched process wasn't explained to people right from the start - those of us that looked into it (whatever side)) quickly came to the conclusion that (at the very least) it wasn't straightforward.
Have a think for a minute - if the gov had gone ahead with this as they wanted (illegally) then at any point this case could have been brought and it (leaving process) would all collapse and need to be started again. If Miller et al were after stopping it then that is what they would have done. A gov white paper is produced for all (EU) treaty negotiations (could have been written in July and be done and dusted ages ago) so maybe you should ask yourselves why not this one?

my Mum didnt have a vote but said she would have voted Brexit 'because they were going to make us change our flag' ...they buy the Daily Mail, can only presume that's were she got that idea...of course there was the guy who voted Brexit cos 'there are too many P@kis'...and of course there were many who voted Brexit for the £350 million a week that was going to go to the NHS instead, a lie that was backtracked on the very next day...a democracy built on lies, false promises and stupidity isnt much to shout about tbh

I'm not worried because Trump will sort America out in 2 years then while we're still moaning to each other he will come and sort Europe out for us, we need a leader who does actions not waffle bloody waffle just so in 5 years time they're still getting all their perks while the poor/elderly and ex servicemen/women still suffer in silence.

It will happen soon enough.

Why blame Gina Miller , she's only a puppet. the real culprit is Cameron and co who drew up the question knowing fine well they had a get out clause no matter how the vote went.

The sad thing is if Brexit happens we will be able to stop E.U. workers coming to our Country but the price is our own freedom in Europe
as we will no longer be free to live and work there it's a no sum gain.

ladycarla 25 Jan 17 11:19

I'm not worried because Trump will sort America out in 2 years


does one or ?

Just watched PM questions god help us if labour get in power in the next 10 years!!!

Probably hoping we become the 51st state.

saddo    25 Jan 17 00:12 
Good grief, people still telling others that they didn't know what they were voting for, how patronising.

I think the final word you were looking for in your sentence there was "accurate." If you knew what you were voting on (assuming you voted) then fine but you can't and don't speak for everyone else.

The referendum was advisory only and so can not be legally binding, so if anyone actually thought by voting to leave the EU if that was how the successful vote went, that the government/parliament had to honour that then they were clearly mistaken and from what I've heard and read from some Brexit voters, plenty actually thought that.

"Could MPs block an EU exit?

Could the necessary legislation pass the Commons, given that a lot of MPs - all SNP and Lib Dems, nearly all Labour and many Conservatives - were in favour of staying? The referendum result is not legally binding - Parliament still has to pass the laws that will get Britain out of the 28 nation bloc, starting with the repeal of the 1972 European Communities Act."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32810887

Are you familiar with the phrase don't shot the messenger saddo?

just catching up with this thread..it is amazing the remainers knew exactly what they were voting for whereas the leavers didnt have a clue and were ignorant..total arrogance and one of the main reasons we wanted to get away from brussels.
and as an aside the nhs should not get all the 350mil because it would just dissappear into the hospital blackhole and we would be in the same place again in a couple years

You have no choice, just accept it, someone else's concepts, so much propaganda the truth is hard to see, and that is the way they like it. Capitalism is now imploding on itself, no Russian communists anymore to blame, no socialist either, so now we have the made up PUTIN monster they would have us believe?  the MacDonalds flags fly large in Russia, the yanks landed a long time ago.

The jocks play on nationalism is so bizarre it is funny, you got Trump owning plenty of lands, and poor jock wants all their land taken by Europe

The Britsh Public have no faith in government that continue to tell them lies, promise border closures, etc then the opposite becomes the reality. 1000 men for one job, and homelessness the objective of the competitive capitalist society, they already have achieved it, yet they want more of the same.

Brexit why did they call the vote?probably because of statistically useless information from secret polls, which on the whole is what statistics are.(USELESS)

The Banks should use more stats

Best teach um to count first.

The horrendous assumption that the average Briton knew enough about the operation of the EU to vote on it in a referendum lies at the heart of Brexit question. They just do not understand the EU well enough (as many of the posts here adequately prove). You might as well ask them to vote on the regulations governing the operation of power stations. This is a classic issue that has to be left to Parliament.

In the end Cameron actually believed that the size of the "get the foreigners out" brigade would not be a highly significant factor (probably due to his sheltered existence). What a mug. Now off earning millions a year describing how he got everything right!

We now even have complaints against Supreme Court decisions. Pathetic. What next? Abolish courts of law because they sometimes give rulings I don't like?

Agreed Jimmy.
Reducing something of such complexity to a yes/no was ridiculous.
Very few, certainly not those who are now supposedly leading Brexit planning, had any idea of what leaving the EU would actually mean.
Extraordinary, for example, that Theresa May is likely to trumpet a special US/UK relationship this week, leading to wonderful trade deals, when she's forbidden to do any deals until we're out of the EU.
An unprecedented mess and one our children will pay for.
Hundreds of thousands of ex pats will come back here, unable to claim health benefits in costa del crime, just at the same time as EU citizens head back to their own countries. Shortage of labour will become acute very quickly and the elderly who largely got us into this mess will be the first to suffer.

isleham    26 Jan 17 10:06 
..it is amazing the remainers knew exactly what they were voting for whereas the leavers didnt have a clue and were ignorant..total arrogance....

I don't believe anyone has actually claimed that anywhere but it's patently obvious that some (key word there) Leavers didn't really get what their vote represented, considering what has happened (or not happened more accurately) since the referendum.

Do you seriously think that many voters whose only previous voting experience was on who should be evicted from the Big Brother house or should win the X-Factor but were now deciding to vote on the referendum, fully understood all that it meant?

I know some people who voted Leave because apparently 80 million Muslim Turks would be coming here otherwise, despite Turkey not even being in the EU and never ever being likely to either. There aren't even 80 million Turks in Turkey anyway and even if there was, what's the chances of every single one of them deciding to leave Turkey, let alone deciding to leave and only come here?

All the MPs what vote against their own constituency should lose their seat the very next day, I've seen at least 10 MPs who are going to do it saying I'm going to vote with my conscience which means I don't care about my people because their thick, talk about getting above your station!! What about the 'conscience' of the voters.

they're

Patronising to think the Brexiteers didn't know what they were voting for. If that is true neither did the Remoaners. Fact is, and its out there on video, it meant we will be leaving the single market, there would be no free movement of people, we could curb mass immigration to a level that suits us and NOT the EU and also make our own laws in Westminster NOT Brussels.
Britain CAN be Great again but not whilst there are moaning whining b'stards still out there who will not recognise a democratic vote. If you don't like it, clear off.

Just having my tea,anyone want a sour grape?

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Facts are you a English teacher?

Remainers are like the pocket talkers on ere, backed the right hoss but it lost.

Facts are you a English teacher?


Facts does not associate with being English.
It's part of his PC conditioning.

Anyone would think that this is the only vote that people didn't know the facts before they voted. In reality the majority as on this occasion vote for the most stupid of reasons, on both sides.

ladycarla    27 Jan 17 19:55 
Facts are you a English teacher?


Nope. Just know how to spell( usually)


Zen

Try and have a day off from being stupid

^ But don't know how to use inverted brackets

jamilla14    27 Jan 17 19:41 
Patronising to think the Brexiteers didn't know what they were voting for. If that is true neither did the Remoaners. Fact is, and its out there on video, it meant we will be leaving the single market, there would be no free movement of people, we could curb mass immigration to a level that suits us and NOT the EU and also make our own laws in Westminster NOT Brussels.
Britain CAN be Great again but not whilst there are moaning whining b'stards still out there who will not recognise a democratic vote. If you don't like it, clear off.

It's not particularly patronising to point out something that is entirely true.

Also the part in bold above, isn't that exactly what will happen one way or the other via the referendum result permitting Westminster to essentially vote on what happens next? If Westminster votes to give the UK parliament the right to make UK laws rather than the EU doing so by leaving the EU then where's the problem for Brexit voters?

Therefore the Brexit voters should welcome that unless of course some of those who suddenly don't, had no idea what they were actually voting on and in their ignorance actually thought they were voting to leave the EU. So we now go full circle with regards to my original post in the thread suggesting that some (key word there) didn't really understand exactly what it was they were voting on. I don't doubt for one minute that the same applies to some Remainers too.

It also isn't a case of "Fact is, and its out there on video, it meant we will be leaving the single market, there would be no free movement of people, we could curb mass immigration to a level that suits us and NOT the EU..." until such a time as parliament decides to do so. Cameron tried to scare the electorate by saying things like "Leave means leave for ever. There is no way back in" "no turning back" and "Out is out" and whilst that might be true to a certain degree, he was saying (misleadingly or otherwise) that that would be the case once we actually left, as opposed to whether it would just be after the referendum result.

Remainers are like the pocket talkers on ere, backed the right hoss but it lost.
Saddo tell me what exactly you have won by voting leave?
Name anything you have won and give proof please!

Ok
I voted to remain, and as much as i would kibosh and filibuster in parliament i know that brexit is going to happen.
The basic facts are these.
Yes the EU is an inefficient borderline corrupt organisation.
I fully comprehend the arguments that the sensible brexiteers put forward that the uk could do better on its own.
The problem i have is with the government
Seems to me that they are using the issue to keep their backbenchers quiet and that the leadership of the tory party may not have a scooby doo as to how to be extricating themselves from europe whilst not leading this country into some sort of economic catastrophe.
My concerns may well be unfounded but it is beginning to look like David Davis may be the only man in the cabinet who has some sort of vision of the future in this regard.
Hope he knows what he is doing...

i voted to remain, but i completely distance myself from Nick Clegg, Tim Farron and other Lib Dems who think they can ignore the vote of the majority.

He doesn't that is the problem and neither does anyone else, we have no trade negotiators and no experience
of trade deals.It is a like a franchise in a major department store saying I'm leaving I can go it alone
I'm fed up of paying money to you you can't live without me as I pay you money and then threatening to go but
having no plan..

In the words of private frasier
We're doomed

Parliament overwhelmingly voted to pass the decision as to our membership of the EU to the people in the form of a referendum.

It is now incumbent on the government to act on that decision.

Ima-mazed66 - if not everybody understood the ramifications of voting for Brexit, then by the same token not everybody understood the consequences of joining the EU back in the 70s. Originally it was intended to be just about trade. You cannot deny, it is far more reaching than that now and certainly NOT what we thought we were becoming part of.
There is no such thing as a soft (or hard) Brexit. Brexit means exactly that.
Everybody hates a poor loser and that sir is exactly what you sound like to me.
As for Breedingmad suggesting there is no talent in Britain to negotiate trade deals, well I'm afraid that's being naive. Of course there are.
In fact, it's quite insulting.

Insulting but true unlike most claptap we hear from brexiters..
https://www.ft.com/content/3c76e90a-270e-11e6-8ba3-cdd781d02d89

Very brave wishing ill fortune on the country that looks after ya, gl with that.

That's exactly what Brexit voters did Saddo they sold their country down the river.

Thank you Room 0182 for helping me prove my point in this thread that many people had no idea at all what they were voting on, as your post above is actually wrong. The referendum was advisory only and about 6-7 years ago it was agreed by ministers that any referendum can not be legally binding, which meant MPs and peers should decide whether or not to take action on any verdict retuned by voters.

On that basis, that being that Parliament has sovereignty to make political decisions that effect Britain rather than the EU (oddly enough the very thing the Leavers wanted) the Government has no authority to decide on Britain's withdrawal and should instead leave it to parliament. Technically speaking the Government might be able to trigger the Article 50 withdrawal process and ignore Parliament via an ancient royal prerogative, which is basically a legal authority derived from the Crown, but that in itself opens up a whole new can of worms.

Are you aware of the expression don't shoot the messenger jamilla14? For the record, I didn't lose anything because I didn't vote to remain. That's the trouble with this forum, in that if anyone sticks to the facts and are merely telling it like it is, some by default seem to read an agenda into that.

I'm sure there are some people who understand little to nothing when it comes to voting regarding any referendum, so yes I agree that applied in the 1970s too.

ima, my post is correct.

I never said the referendum result was legally binding. I said the the government had a duty/responsibility to act on the result of the referendum as it promised it would (cf. Tory Manifesto 2015). If that
requires a vote in parliament then so be it - it should be a formality to get it through as the Cons. have a majority and additional support among other MPs that respect democracy.


Leavers are upset with the legal shenanigans because they can see them for what they are - a transparent attempt to derail the process that the majority voted for.

The 1975 referendum was only advisory too.

Referenda are not legally binding.
No one can get sued in a court of law for ignoring one.
Politicians would be wise to listen to their results, in respect of their careers but should, heaven forfend, the liberals win a snap election then they would be quite within their rights to ignore what went on last june.

Look the point is this, for all of us sane members of the united kingdom:
If Brexit means the uk gets richer and continues to experience economic growth then all us remainers were wrong and yes in deed a bunch of sore losers.
If however brexit means successive years of economic hardship as sundry numpties in parliament are proven to have had no plan at all in negotiating their way around punitive customs charges for british business then anyone who voted brexit will have taken a pretty daft punt which did not work out.

I just had a heated debate with a Brexiter he reminded me I lost mentioned Democracy and when I said do you understand what the E.U. is he said
"it's short for the European Union"..He also said "there was a plan" but when I asked what the plan was he said "that is democracy and we won"

Can't wait for the homeland holidays , Blackpool No1.

Beach, Pub,  Woman struggling to speak English, all the same  : )

Morecambe could make a comeback God forbid.

Scarborough,  heading for top spot after Brexit.  lol 

Basically we have effectively voted to turn the U.K. into a prison in Europe where if there is a recession
and Germany or any other Country is short of workers we will no longer be free to leave and seek work and take
the strain off our Government paying benefits.It is total insanity...

Nowt wrong with Scarborough but Whitby beats it by a long chalk imo.

It's a vote to take away Freedom

walos, there are three Europeans here now for every one we have over there, you think that ratio would ever change? Freedom of movement has worked very much against us, idiot.

Scarborough is cool, i'm heading there in July, and they accept Scottish notes :)

a vote to take away freedom ??/ 

ffs purely the opposite

But after we build the wall , to keep you scoundrels out , a summer holidays in Scotland could be the norm(ever 5 Years)

theres already a wall - its just im big enough to jump ova it

I'm worried if we build the wall you racing loving English will use it as a 'fence' in this year's Grand National.

divnt worry too much bonny lad

where if there is a recession
and Germany or any other Country is short of workers we will no longer be free to leave and seek work and take
the strain off our Government paying benefits.



Still loling at this, our gov currently spending fortunes on benefits subsidising low paid EU workers over here, what a tool Bm is.

The only way i'd let anyone enter Britain is if they can swim the 'Channel' with a person on their back within  20 minutes, Helps is Scots get to France cheaper and quicker than that f*ckin Dover ferry...;)

Only one tool on here a has bag.

Sharp

Build a wall to keep the sweaty socks out, gets my vote all day long.

Only one tool on here a has bag.


Probably the most sense you have ever made BM.

What you said in your post above Room 0182 was:

Parliament overwhelmingly voted to pass the decision as to our membership of the EU to the people in the form of a referendum.

When the only reason for the referendum which you then mention in your next post was that Cameron stated in the Conservative manifesto that if he got in again then he would give the country the chance of a referendum, which kind of contradicts your earlier point.

If you were therefore saying "Parliament overwhelmingly voted to pass the decision as to our membership of the EU to the people in the form of a referendum" then that's wrong on both counts, as Parliament didn't pass anything and certainly didn't give the decision to the people based on the referendum vote, if you yourself now are alluding to it being advisory and not legally binding.

The government can act on the referendum result by having the vote in Parliament and if the Leavers think the result would be a shoo-in to leave then why do some of them have a problem with that vote taking place? Especially if they presumably knew what they themselves were voting on regarding the referendum.

Like I said originally in the thread, I suspect many didn't have a clue though.

Feck the EU, and feck Scotland as well.

ZenMaster falling for the same as Saddo did

D J Trump ..Thr Coverage about me in the @ NY.Times and the washington post gas
been so false and angry the times actually apologized to its..

its true the world is crazy, walls are being built, immigration is yesterday and cool cats name themselves twice

Pick out the punch line for us Bm, ffs.

WAKEFIELD

I don't live there but do carry on saying it, if it pleases you.

Must be said that the eastern european influx has been, economically speaking, a boon for the country not a burden.
I do doubt that the uk would have been in economic growth so soon after the crash of 2008 without the  industry of the poles and romanians.

Is "industry" a euphemism for undercutting the home based workforce and/or cash in hand wages?

Talked to a couple of lasses last night and they said what I said the old brigade are stock on the past
not all but a large percentage but at least they loved my liberal political viewpoint and weren't Farage
bullers all shout and no truth...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBojbjoMttI

ima,

Perhaps I'm not making myself clear.

The Conservatives promised to put the decision whether to stay in the EU to the people in the form of a referendum, were they to win the election. promising to respect the result.

They won the election.

They then fulfilled that promise by introducing a bill (European Union Referendum Act 2015) which Parliament duly passed.

We voted to leave.

"Advisory" or not, I expect the result of the referendum to be honoured. The Courts decided that would have to be via another parliamentary vote. Fine by me.

"Leavers think the result would be a shoo-in to leave then why do some of them have a problem with that vote taking place?"

Because many believe, understandably, that politicians can't be trusted to respect democracy. Fortunately, judging by the vote today, so far that concern appears to be misplaced.

Backed Brexit and Trump, now just Marine and a lay of Merkel to make it "PERFICK"