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pj hammond racing
recived a letter from this crowd saying they wish to find people to put money on for them as they "carnt get on" they said they will not ask you to put "your own money on" and you will recive a commision for getting on etc....i recived a call 2 days later asking me who i was, my betting, etc..then asked me to put on 800 for him and that he would put it back into my account right after the race ..with 15% on top?
i let it go on for as long as i could and told him what he was ...ive seen them all, as a ex owner and member of clubs courses etc..my name like others is on racing lists that these scumbags buy ..i post this as a warning to punters and others please be careful of these scumbags..
recived a letter from this crowd saying they wish to find people to put money on for them as they "carnt get on" they said they will not ask you to put "your own money on" and you will recive a commision for getting on etc....i recived a call 2 days later asking me who i was, my betting, etc..then asked me to put on 800 for him and that he would put it back into my account right after the race ..with 15% on top?
i let it go on for as long as i could and told him what he was ...ive seen them all, as a ex owner and member of clubs courses etc..my name like others is on racing lists that these scumbags buy ..i post this as a warning to punters and others please be careful of these scumbags..
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Jul 25, 2016 -- 8:42AM, tony57 wrote:
..didnt get to the horse
When you let him have it did he say 'steady on big fella'?
things must be bad when the chancellor of the exchequer has to resort to scamming folk. 
I had the same letter. I phoned the number. A very posh chap said he was talking to someone else, but would phone me straight back. He did - one a "Number Withheld" line (Warning Signal No1!)
His first words were "I need you to understand two things; I'm not here to sell you anything, and I'm not going to ask you to part with any money"!
He told me that he was the agent for some very high rollers who own between them 21 horses. They know when these horses have been prepped to win, and they want to get big money down on them without alerting the bookies that it's them behind it or the odds would immediately shorten. That's where I come in, he said. He wants me to acts as their "stooge". Get THEIR money on, for which they'll pay me 15% of the stake, and 15% of the winnings. So far, so good.
He then asked me whether I had online bookie accounts, and how much I had in my bank account (Warning signal No 2!) I lied to him of course!
He then said that the way it worked was this: He'd phone me with the first selection and the stake value. I'd place the bet, and when the horse won (which of course it WOULD), I'd receive by electronic transfer, the return of my stake, plus 15%, plus 15% of the winnings. Thereafter, with every subsequent selection, the stake money plus 15% would be transferred to my account BEFORE I had to place the stake. Simple!
"So", I said to him, the first stake is my money going down. That right? "Correct" he said. I COULD have said "Your opening statement said that you weren't going to ask me to part with any money." I didn't. I just said "Not interested" and hung up.
Have wondered since how this scam works. I put my money on a horse selected by him. It loses. I'm out of pocket, but he hasn't made anything either. So what's in it for him?
I put my money on a horse selected by him. It wins. I'm in the money, but he hasn't made a bean until I transfer the winnings less 15%.
Anyone know how it works?
His first words were "I need you to understand two things; I'm not here to sell you anything, and I'm not going to ask you to part with any money"!
He told me that he was the agent for some very high rollers who own between them 21 horses. They know when these horses have been prepped to win, and they want to get big money down on them without alerting the bookies that it's them behind it or the odds would immediately shorten. That's where I come in, he said. He wants me to acts as their "stooge". Get THEIR money on, for which they'll pay me 15% of the stake, and 15% of the winnings. So far, so good.
He then asked me whether I had online bookie accounts, and how much I had in my bank account (Warning signal No 2!) I lied to him of course!
He then said that the way it worked was this: He'd phone me with the first selection and the stake value. I'd place the bet, and when the horse won (which of course it WOULD), I'd receive by electronic transfer, the return of my stake, plus 15%, plus 15% of the winnings. Thereafter, with every subsequent selection, the stake money plus 15% would be transferred to my account BEFORE I had to place the stake. Simple!
"So", I said to him, the first stake is my money going down. That right? "Correct" he said. I COULD have said "Your opening statement said that you weren't going to ask me to part with any money." I didn't. I just said "Not interested" and hung up.
Have wondered since how this scam works. I put my money on a horse selected by him. It loses. I'm out of pocket, but he hasn't made anything either. So what's in it for him?
I put my money on a horse selected by him. It wins. I'm in the money, but he hasn't made a bean until I transfer the winnings less 15%.
Anyone know how it works?
Basically, he can't lose; you can. He probably feeds different selections in the same race to several 'agents'. one will ensure he has a winner and he just moves on to other 'agents' for his next tickle.
He sends different horses to different people for a start.
Secondly he will never stump money up front.
If the first horse he sends you wins. You'd send him the winnings less the commission.
Then he'd propose the same arrangement for the second bet with some excuse to get him out of the original arrangement he promised you for the subsequent bets. Probably phone you at the last minute with that, saying the money transfer has been held up at his end.
You'd have to use your money again.
After the first loser you wouldn't hear from him again
Secondly he will never stump money up front.
If the first horse he sends you wins. You'd send him the winnings less the commission.
Then he'd propose the same arrangement for the second bet with some excuse to get him out of the original arrangement he promised you for the subsequent bets. Probably phone you at the last minute with that, saying the money transfer has been held up at his end.
You'd have to use your money again.
After the first loser you wouldn't hear from him again
So called 'tipsters' are very good at marketing but lousy at giving winners. Colin Davey is a prime example. I NEVER listen or read any bumf sent to me, period.
These "gents" would make Shelley "The Machine" Levene blush.
Assuming if the 1st horse wins you don't just keep all the cash! I suppose if you are mug enough to whack on £800 on a dodgy tip ou are also mug enough to send off the winnings.
The oldest scam is to get say fifty odd people to try your service for free.
You find a 4 Horse race and give each horse to twelve of your clients.
You have twelve winners
Then you do the same again.
Now you're down to three winners.
This time you charge them for the tips.
Hopefully one of the four wins and you ask that winner for more cash for the tip.
So you're guaranteed to sell four tips.
That's peanuts but you can see the potential.
You find a 4 Horse race and give each horse to twelve of your clients.
You have twelve winners
Then you do the same again.
Now you're down to three winners.
This time you charge them for the tips.
Hopefully one of the four wins and you ask that winner for more cash for the tip.
So you're guaranteed to sell four tips.
That's peanuts but you can see the potential.
FrankRA
FrankRA
25 Jul 16 14:50
Joined: 01 Feb 03
| Topic/replies: 1,337 | Blogger: FrankRA's blog
Didnt know coke ed was still around.
___________
still eating porridge due to extra 3 years for not paying back 240k under asset recovery
FrankRA
25 Jul 16 14:50
Joined: 01 Feb 03
| Topic/replies: 1,337 | Blogger: FrankRA's blog
Didnt know coke ed was still around.
___________
still eating porridge due to extra 3 years for not paying back 240k under asset recovery
Anyone tempted by these shysters should remember the old adage: "if it sounds too good to be true, it IS too good to be true". A tipster who actually makes a profit is the needle in a very stinking haystack.
You are all jeolus of the success of these genuine peopul. To show my confidence, I am going to post a credit card no and security code on hear, so that any tipstirrers reading this knows I am serious. Take a reasonable amount of monet and send me the tips on this thread plese.
he must have seen arfur daly do it in minder Laugh
And I suppose you invented it?
And I suppose you invented it?
The above replies correctly highlight a long-standing scam - However ...
You posted ...
'He then said that the way it worked was this: He'd phone me with the first selection and the stake value. I'd place the bet, and when the horse won (which of course it WOULD), I'd receive by electronic transfer, the return of my stake, plus 15%, plus 15% of the winnings.
Thereafter, with every subsequent selection, the stake money plus 15% would be transferred to my account BEFORE I had to place the stake. Simple!
------------
Now - You either, may have, misheard, misinterpreted, or have posted that wrong on here - BUT - If that is correct.....
- Then, to - "receive by electronic transfer," - the 15% that - "would be transferred to my account," ....
HE would NEED YOUR Bank Account details.
'(Warning Signal No3!)
You posted ...
'He then said that the way it worked was this: He'd phone me with the first selection and the stake value. I'd place the bet, and when the horse won (which of course it WOULD), I'd receive by electronic transfer, the return of my stake, plus 15%, plus 15% of the winnings.
Thereafter, with every subsequent selection, the stake money plus 15% would be transferred to my account BEFORE I had to place the stake. Simple!
------------
Now - You either, may have, misheard, misinterpreted, or have posted that wrong on here - BUT - If that is correct.....
- Then, to - "receive by electronic transfer," - the 15% that - "would be transferred to my account," ....
HE would NEED YOUR Bank Account details.
'(Warning Signal No3!)
Yes but you need more than an account number and a sort code to take money out of an account.
It'll go in easy enough, but taking it out is a different matter.
It'll go in easy enough, but taking it out is a different matter.
Probably turn out to be zodiac putting a posh voice on.
Even with personal details, they couldn't do it.
They'd want a password and security details.
They'd want a password and security details.
the sale of punter's details be a nice money spinner for ex-bookies call centre staff
@Dr Crippen
"Yes but you need more than an account number and a sort code to take money out of an account."
Not much more - a name helps but he'll have that.
Remember when Clarkson thought what Dr Crippen thought and published his bank account and sort code? Some joker filled in a £500pcm standing order in his name to Children in Need or the like and posted it to his bank.
"Yes but you need more than an account number and a sort code to take money out of an account."
Not much more - a name helps but he'll have that.
Remember when Clarkson thought what Dr Crippen thought and published his bank account and sort code? Some joker filled in a £500pcm standing order in his name to Children in Need or the like and posted it to his bank.
Every cheque you write has got your name your account number and your sort code on it.
It's hardly confidential information.
Without a valid signature a standing order wouldn't be much good.
It's hardly confidential information.
Without a valid signature a standing order wouldn't be much good.
You don't need a signature to set up a Standing Order with internet banking
imo the whole modern way of doing personal finance today simply doesn't hang together and it relies on the vast majority of people not committing fraud
richard100 09 Aug 16 13:40
Anyone know how it works?
LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Feel free (and without using a phrase such as 'if you don't know then I'm not going to tell you') to explain how this scam works and the scammer makes millions then roida........
Anyone know how it works?
LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Feel free (and without using a phrase such as 'if you don't know then I'm not going to tell you') to explain how this scam works and the scammer makes millions then roida........
I personally wouldn't mock anyone who doesn't know how it works but basically it's already been explained in the thread anyway.
They choose a race and give horse #1 to some punters, #2 to a different set of punters, #3 to yet more different punters and so on until the whole field is covered and so multiple punters will be on the winner regardless. There are also so many other side issues that can convince unsuspecting punters to part with their money too.
Many of the ones on the winner might go in again thinking they were given a winner and so the scammer fulfilled what they had promised and if they give the whole spiel about it being inside info rather than they just think it had the form to win, then even better. If it wins easily then that makes the "inside info" look even better still or if any of the beaten selections go close, then they can argue the info was good and that they were just unlucky. So if for example it was a 3-way photo for first then even those given the 2nd and 3rd might still be interested in future bets.
Other things to consider would be if the winner won at a big price or whatever won turned over the favourite, or if they advised each way bets on some of the bigger priced runners and 1 or 2 of them made the frame to still show a profit. Even anyone going into bet 2 after having had a winner might be tempted into bet 3 if still showing an overall profit and maybe some who didn't have the winner from bet 1 might still go to bet 2 for whatever reason and then have the winner then and that convinces them to go on to bet 3 and so on.
Even the manner of how the race pans out can have an effect, such as an unlucky in running loser or if the winner led all the way or came from last to first for example. Also if say the chosen race was over jumps and something looked like winning but fell or pulled up when going well or looking like it had the race won, some of those given that selection might join some of those on the eventual winner going for bet 2 on the grounds that the "info" was good regardless.
They choose a race and give horse #1 to some punters, #2 to a different set of punters, #3 to yet more different punters and so on until the whole field is covered and so multiple punters will be on the winner regardless. There are also so many other side issues that can convince unsuspecting punters to part with their money too.
Many of the ones on the winner might go in again thinking they were given a winner and so the scammer fulfilled what they had promised and if they give the whole spiel about it being inside info rather than they just think it had the form to win, then even better. If it wins easily then that makes the "inside info" look even better still or if any of the beaten selections go close, then they can argue the info was good and that they were just unlucky. So if for example it was a 3-way photo for first then even those given the 2nd and 3rd might still be interested in future bets.
Other things to consider would be if the winner won at a big price or whatever won turned over the favourite, or if they advised each way bets on some of the bigger priced runners and 1 or 2 of them made the frame to still show a profit. Even anyone going into bet 2 after having had a winner might be tempted into bet 3 if still showing an overall profit and maybe some who didn't have the winner from bet 1 might still go to bet 2 for whatever reason and then have the winner then and that convinces them to go on to bet 3 and so on.
Even the manner of how the race pans out can have an effect, such as an unlucky in running loser or if the winner led all the way or came from last to first for example. Also if say the chosen race was over jumps and something looked like winning but fell or pulled up when going well or looking like it had the race won, some of those given that selection might join some of those on the eventual winner going for bet 2 on the grounds that the "info" was good regardless.
There are a lot of vulnerable people out there who sadly fall for it.
As Old as the Hills being going on for Donkeys in one form or another
Just watch this if you're still none the wiser
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R5OWh7luL4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R5OWh7luL4
How does the scammer get the money unless somebody sends it to him? Obv the 'pick every horse in a race scam' is well known but that is for paid info before the race after the 'winner' has been given free winning 'tips'. By the way this has been explained the only way the scammer gets any money is if the person that puts the bet on sends it to him - even people that read this forum aren't that stupid!
If there were limits on stupidity, there wouldn't be such a big scamming industry.
most people have been caught out by tipsters.........in my youth I sent for tips out of the handicap book...........Saturday double results looked good..............loads of winning doubles........every week at least one winner.......had the letter on the Friday......instead of 2 horses he gave 12 horses.............the best he did was an odds on winner..........the ad the next week was the odds on winner and one of the tips which finished 2nd............read the article to see if he mentioned only 2 selections were given but he was careful not to claim that
the DAWSON system was always advertised in the hcap book...read on here that it was some doubling up system which would cost you a fortune to run........and I knew a guy who bought fineform........that was complete rubbish
anyone old enough to remember the DAWSON system??.......and does anyone admit to buying it........other letter tipsters I remember...RJ FRANCIS.....ALAN CARFAX...........anyone remember any more
sandrovich is later..............text and telephone tipster
I remember Carfax! Back page of the weekender, when he stopped it was Martin Wells! Saturday letters often with free winning selections on the big race. Both had po box in West Sussex, prices and adverts were exactly the same, I think they must have been cousins
spyker 09 Aug 16 19:28
Feel free (and without using a phrase such as 'if you don't know then I'm not going to tell you') to explain how this scam works and the scammer makes millions then roida........
cos he finds as many naive/vunerable people as possible...lets say he gets 20...selects a 5 runner open race then sends each horse to 4 different people...he then gets paid for 4 winners x £800 and the other 16 lose £800 each.
Feel free (and without using a phrase such as 'if you don't know then I'm not going to tell you') to explain how this scam works and the scammer makes millions then roida........
cos he finds as many naive/vunerable people as possible...lets say he gets 20...selects a 5 runner open race then sends each horse to 4 different people...he then gets paid for 4 winners x £800 and the other 16 lose £800 each.
don't know why everyone is mocking it, they just gave San Quentin @ 7/1
roida - even so, the bettor has to send him the winnings from his bet. Now, no doubt you have met some pretty gullible people in your, ahem, working life but anybody so stupid to do that?
The scam described at the start of this thread has been operating many years.Often whilst the scammer is speaking to you he will say "hold on, my secretary wants a word with me" and then you will hear him say in the background "it won ? what price ? 20/1 excellent" and then he will come back to you and carry on with his patter.
spyker 10 Aug 16 17:18
roida - even so, the bettor has to send him the winnings from his bet. Now, no doubt you have met some pretty gullible people in your, ahem, working life but anybody so stupid to do that?
spyker the world is unfortunately full of naive gullible people...once its won they think they're on to a good thing.
roida - even so, the bettor has to send him the winnings from his bet. Now, no doubt you have met some pretty gullible people in your, ahem, working life but anybody so stupid to do that?
spyker the world is unfortunately full of naive gullible people...once its won they think they're on to a good thing.
"hold on, my secretary wants a word with me" and then you will hear him say in the background "it won ? what price ? 20/1 excellent" and then he will come back to you and carry on with his patter.
we all know of certain scams that have been about..i just wanted to warn others of this one as they buy a list of names that have links to racing or betting..e.g. if your a member of a track or bought racing publications have been in ownership in some way..so these lists are gold to these people! there have many scams over the years im glad to say they are not as prevalent as years gone by..
The only thing to do with these letters is to take in to the lavatory and use it to wipe your bottom, unless it is from Richard Birch
Birch is a nonsensical arrogant weasel who THINKS he knows something about the game, when he knows absolutely NOTHING. Funny though, how he is allowed to publish his "tips" in the Post.....
spyker 10 Aug 16 17:18
roida - even so, the bettor has to send him the winnings from his bet. Now, no doubt you have met some pretty gullible people in your, ahem, working life but anybody so stupid to do that?
Because they want to be sent another winner after that.
roida - even so, the bettor has to send him the winnings from his bet. Now, no doubt you have met some pretty gullible people in your, ahem, working life but anybody so stupid to do that?
Because they want to be sent another winner after that.
Dr Crippen, I'm not patronising in any way but don't believe that clearing banks check signatures on cheques for less than £3000 ( it used to be £5000) but as volume usage of cheques has reduced the staff can be a bit more professional but as the cheque usage has decreased the banks being penny pinching operations have decreased staff in clearing centres accordingly. If you don't believe me make out a £500 kite to one of your children,sign it Frankie Dettori and see if it clears. If and I believe it to be a big if that it gets picked up just stress you were testing security procedures.
I am one of the gullible people who were caught out by this scam. They were so well spoken and professional that I was completely taken in. I placed a very large bet for them and when it came last they did not return my stake.
Apparently the address in Cambridge they are using is a very plush building which I looked up on Google maps.
They call themselves G.Parkin Bloodstock Agency. If the moderator of this site agrgees I will publish their letter to me to warn other readers of how clever they are. A.H.
Apparently the address in Cambridge they are using is a very plush building which I looked up on Google maps.
They call themselves G.Parkin Bloodstock Agency. If the moderator of this site agrgees I will publish their letter to me to warn other readers of how clever they are. A.H.
Publish the letter val as I'm sure the moderators won't mind.
This is not the sort of behaviour one expects from the chancellor
http://www.rte.ie/radio1/podcast/podcast_liveline.xml
the above is the link to rte radio's liveline podcast library.
This national radio program covered this very "agency" back in September, if you scroll down that podcast listing page to "bloodstock agency letter" on September 15th, and click on the podcast, you get the full 10 to 15 minutes of the flavour attached to this little operation.
If you listen to the podcast, and I am sure it involves the same gent that Val dealt with, he is some baby because from the start he is almost trying to convince that he is doing you a favour and that you should be grateful for his attention.
the above is the link to rte radio's liveline podcast library.
This national radio program covered this very "agency" back in September, if you scroll down that podcast listing page to "bloodstock agency letter" on September 15th, and click on the podcast, you get the full 10 to 15 minutes of the flavour attached to this little operation.
If you listen to the podcast, and I am sure it involves the same gent that Val dealt with, he is some baby because from the start he is almost trying to convince that he is doing you a favour and that you should be grateful for his attention.
nice one KL, I've heard it before but couldn't find the link
I will publish their letter to me to warn other readers of how clever they are. A.H.
unlike yourself.
unlike yourself.
Hi Keen Leader
I have listened to the podcast and the letter is identical to the one I received. One lives and learns I hope.
I have listened to the podcast and the letter is identical to the one I received. One lives and learns I hope.
val
Joined: 12 Mar 02
Apparently the address in Cambridge they are using is a very plush building which I looked up on Google maps.
They call themselves G.Parkin Bloodstock Agency.
Val - a few totally random words: Cambridge, baseball bats, mates.
Cheers.
Joined: 12 Mar 02
Apparently the address in Cambridge they are using is a very plush building which I looked up on Google maps.
They call themselves G.Parkin Bloodstock Agency.
Val - a few totally random words: Cambridge, baseball bats, mates.
Cheers.
Willie says - "val..how can anyone be so naive?"
I do have some sympathy for your criticism, but what is interesting is that anyone who knows about these kind of scams (and not just racing) will tell you that everyone's tolerance/acceptance level to this kind of stuff is different and bears little relationship to normal standards of awareness and common "savvy".
EG - My father in law - an intelligent, worldly small businessman very nearly fell into one of the standard old African "loads of cash to get into the UK" Email Scam". His "argument" was in all seriousness that he had been chosen because he was an upstanding citizen and thoroughly reliable. He even claimed that they must know that he had previously been a Special Constable. You really couldn't make it up. It took bl oody ages to persuade him he was being conned.
nb - Mind you he did swear blind once that Clyde Best was only playing for West Ham because the Government had imposed a "black" quota of ONE on all first division teams.
I do have some sympathy for your criticism, but what is interesting is that anyone who knows about these kind of scams (and not just racing) will tell you that everyone's tolerance/acceptance level to this kind of stuff is different and bears little relationship to normal standards of awareness and common "savvy".
EG - My father in law - an intelligent, worldly small businessman very nearly fell into one of the standard old African "loads of cash to get into the UK" Email Scam". His "argument" was in all seriousness that he had been chosen because he was an upstanding citizen and thoroughly reliable. He even claimed that they must know that he had previously been a Special Constable. You really couldn't make it up. It took bl oody ages to persuade him he was being conned.
nb - Mind you he did swear blind once that Clyde Best was only playing for West Ham because the Government had imposed a "black" quota of ONE on all first division teams.
So what did he say when Ade Coker & Clyde Best played in the first team together 
John Charles played before those two for West Ham in the 60s.
I giggled, I have no idea what he did
I don't think he was a racist, he was just a person of his time. When would that have been 72?
I don't think he was a racist, he was just a person of his time. When would that have been 72?
Ade Coker scored on his debut in 71 against Palace, only played 10 times over the next three seasons.
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om6FqYB_W0w
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om6FqYB_W0w
Interesting the double 11/4 and 11/2 going for a big payout gave it away I once had a true tale told me from a very interesting good tipster who offered odds to £50 deduct losers he was scathing about the punters who tried to rip him off he said for the 5 genuine punters there was 20 rouge punters the problem was fine with the short price ones but even then only a small lot payed up but give then a 12/1 that won then they kept the money or any excuse they didn't back it to not pay up and reeled off various tales about them quite funny really he was genuine to deal with and kept detailed records when they tried to get back on later he used to say to them you owe me money he said the excuses were great so he gave them a good un and told them it was the best information he had for today in years and thanked them for ringing again
loads of scams still catching plenty ,not racing orientated but one i remember from the 1990s probably still at it in various forms , was walking along street on my way to book a holiday,newish car pulls up, driver a geezer in smart suit beckons me over ,me thinking he wants directions goes to car ,he gives me some schpiel along the lines about how he is a travelling salesman for a jewellery firm and he has been given too much by mistake from his firm and needs to sell it on the cheap ,anyway he pulls a convincing looking blue velvety type bag with "gold chains with price tags in the £100s on each hands some over to me and says look they are all hallmarked and they were ,but the colour and weight was wrong so i told him i wasnt interested and skint and he fooked off ,
about a week later my cousin came round to my house ,he seemed keen to make me notice the expensive looking " gold" watch on his wrist! anyway after a while i asked to have a look ,where did ya get it i said ...........some geezer in a car called me over ! he was a travelling salesman in the jewellery trade and his firm had given him too many and he sold me this solid gold watch for a £100 a bargain as it had a price tag of over a grand on it
cut along story short the "gold" watch fell apart within a few weeks and he was left with a green band from the "gold" on his wrist ..........
about a week later my cousin came round to my house ,he seemed keen to make me notice the expensive looking " gold" watch on his wrist! anyway after a while i asked to have a look ,where did ya get it i said ...........some geezer in a car called me over ! he was a travelling salesman in the jewellery trade and his firm had given him too many and he sold me this solid gold watch for a £100 a bargain as it had a price tag of over a grand on it
cut along story short the "gold" watch fell apart within a few weeks and he was left with a green band from the "gold" on his wrist ..........
Portmanpark:
The Dawson system sounds like the one in the early 60's a group of us used to wonder how he did it. Each bet or series of bets was called a "Coup" We sent off the money between us for a month just to see how it was done. It involved backing his selection and the favourite. His early selections was the favourite but as the week went on his selections increased in price. After each losing race you were meant to double your stake. He then said when the stake reached some astronomical level you gave up and started again!
The Dawson system sounds like the one in the early 60's a group of us used to wonder how he did it. Each bet or series of bets was called a "Coup" We sent off the money between us for a month just to see how it was done. It involved backing his selection and the favourite. His early selections was the favourite but as the week went on his selections increased in price. After each losing race you were meant to double your stake. He then said when the stake reached some astronomical level you gave up and started again!
There was a system sent in by a Handicap Book reader known as the Gallimore system probably called after him.
The selection taken from the Daily Express was their forecast favourite in the first handicap race at the principle meeting that was not a Seller, Apprentice or Amateur race.
The stakes were 1, 3, 5, 10, 20, 40 points stopping at a winner. I followed the results before trying it and it worked every week from June to the end of October before it had three losing weeks that wiped out the profit.
The selection taken from the Daily Express was their forecast favourite in the first handicap race at the principle meeting that was not a Seller, Apprentice or Amateur race.
The stakes were 1, 3, 5, 10, 20, 40 points stopping at a winner. I followed the results before trying it and it worked every week from June to the end of October before it had three losing weeks that wiped out the profit.
Oldgit, I loved that Handicap Book and its systems,seldom tried any tbh,but would spend hours pouring over them.
You say how can someone be so naïve. As a teenager I would often see the 3 card trick scammers operating around the London greyhound tracks, and purely from standing back and observing how it worked, you noted the dealer and his 3 or 4 operators in action, each one of the operators in turn winning on the turn of the correct card. This charade would carry on until they lured a real victim or two in, and of course the victims wouldn't select the correct card, and as naivety set in the victims would desperately try and recover their losses.
I was with a friend at the White City greyhound derby final (I used to go horse race meetings with the friend and he was a careful and controlled punter) and the 3 card scammers were inside the stadium amidst the huge crowd, the friend had not seen this before so I quickly explained to him how it works and said do not under any circumstances get involved. I caught up with him later on in the track and by the look on his face I could see something was wrong, he lost £50 on the card scam.
I was with a friend at the White City greyhound derby final (I used to go horse race meetings with the friend and he was a careful and controlled punter) and the 3 card scammers were inside the stadium amidst the huge crowd, the friend had not seen this before so I quickly explained to him how it works and said do not under any circumstances get involved. I caught up with him later on in the track and by the look on his face I could see something was wrong, he lost £50 on the card scam.
I simply can't understand how people fall for these scams which have been going on since time immemorial.
Every week you read about how people are conned with one scheme or another yet still they learn nothing from this.
Every week you read about how people are conned with one scheme or another yet still they learn nothing from this.
I have always thought that greedy people were careful with money and not prone to part with it so easily, foyleswar.
As the line in the song goes Sparrow, More More More.
may not part with it easily and the skilled conman will undoubably have to put the work in ,but the chance of so called "easy or free money " is often too much to resist..............
not just mugs who get turned over ! there was something on tv the other day an ex high ranking copper had been scammed
kevo the 3 card trick isnt a scam..
its a fair 2/1 chance...
they fool you into believing the card isnt where you think.
its a fair 2/1 chance...
they fool you into believing the card isnt where you think.
so willie if you ignored the card that they are trying to fool you into then its an even money pop the other 2 ?
just look away when the dealer shuffles..
then its 2/1 take ya chance.
then its 2/1 take ya chance.
see these fellas in action at leicester square in the 1970s team of about 4-5 got some scandinavian looking tourist into the game and fleeced him in no time ,he was a big fooker and started to get lairy ,one of the team shouted police and the blonde fella looked round by the time he looked back the table cards money and team had shot off in all directions !
willie must be better to keep your eyes on the card they are making you think is the winner and then pick one of the other 2 even money pop........ theres your edge !
Willie,
I've seen one of the dealers bend the corner of the queen card while the dealer has deliberately turned his back. The dealer then (supposedly not noticing the damaged queen card) deals again and his operatives dive in and place the money on that card, a victim then tries to place his bet on the card but the dealer says sorry it's to late, and turns over the queen. The stage is now set for the scam, the dealer again deals the 3 cards including the damaged card, his operatives then urge the victims to pile on their money on the damaged card, which they do, when the damaged card is turned over it is not the queen, all bets lost.
I have watched this scam many times and I still can't see how the dealer manages to substitute a different damaged card for the damaged queen card.
I've seen one of the dealers bend the corner of the queen card while the dealer has deliberately turned his back. The dealer then (supposedly not noticing the damaged queen card) deals again and his operatives dive in and place the money on that card, a victim then tries to place his bet on the card but the dealer says sorry it's to late, and turns over the queen. The stage is now set for the scam, the dealer again deals the 3 cards including the damaged card, his operatives then urge the victims to pile on their money on the damaged card, which they do, when the damaged card is turned over it is not the queen, all bets lost.
I have watched this scam many times and I still can't see how the dealer manages to substitute a different damaged card for the damaged queen card.
Should have said one of dealers operatives bends the queen card.
FOYLESWAR 13 Dec 17 13:03
willie must be better to keep your eyes on the card they are making you think is the winner and then pick one of the other 2 even money pop........ theres your edge !
1 out 3 is 2/1
1 out 2 is evens
same chances.
willie must be better to keep your eyes on the card they are making you think is the winner and then pick one of the other 2 even money pop........ theres your edge !
1 out 3 is 2/1
1 out 2 is evens
same chances.
kevo Joined: 17 Mar 03
Replies: 548 13 Dec 17 13:11
Should have said one of dealers operatives bends the queen card.
still isnt a scam tho...its enticement.
Replies: 548 13 Dec 17 13:11
Should have said one of dealers operatives bends the queen card.
still isnt a scam tho...its enticement.
You will not beat these guys, 2/1 shot more like 50/1.
Workrider.
I first bought the old Handicap Book on the eve of the 1954 Derby when I noticed it on bookstall at Kings Cross when seeing some relatives off. It was an eye opener for me with Split Second, Reflections on Running and Market Movers.
Methodmaker much later had a good column where he analysed systems and methods and refined them as well. Some letter writers had ingenious ideas and even I had a few letters published but I never wanted to know about "The Dutchman" and his rather vague means of selection .
I still believe in the Four Day System that Methodmaker devoted many of his columns to.
Back when I first started punting in the mid 50's a friend had a book by Captain someone that analysed the stats all the big handicaps over the years and it produced some good results. Now with better horse running and a restricted weight range and field sizes it is all very different. Now knowing the draw and where the pace should be we have supposedly the means of eliminating many of the field.
I first bought the old Handicap Book on the eve of the 1954 Derby when I noticed it on bookstall at Kings Cross when seeing some relatives off. It was an eye opener for me with Split Second, Reflections on Running and Market Movers.
Methodmaker much later had a good column where he analysed systems and methods and refined them as well. Some letter writers had ingenious ideas and even I had a few letters published but I never wanted to know about "The Dutchman" and his rather vague means of selection .
I still believe in the Four Day System that Methodmaker devoted many of his columns to.
Back when I first started punting in the mid 50's a friend had a book by Captain someone that analysed the stats all the big handicaps over the years and it produced some good results. Now with better horse running and a restricted weight range and field sizes it is all very different. Now knowing the draw and where the pace should be we have supposedly the means of eliminating many of the field.
I've seen people who have lost far more money in a few minutes than I imagine they would have lost betting in a week, some close to tears after the realisation. The 3 card trick merchants sometimes laughing together after it has finished.
yeah sparrow if you did manage to "beat" them getting paid is another thing altogether
not a scam just a really simple clever theft really that was begging to be exploited and eventually was (fook i wish i had sussed it first )...anyone remember the night safe/banks in the 1960s most of the high street banks had a night safe on the outside wall of the banks a big bronze letterbox/chute type thing that enabled night buissnesses and the like to deposit money when the banks were closed ,think the depositer had a special bank bag with his details in it and you slid the bag down the chute and that was it the banks staff collected it the next morning and sorted it simple .......................after a while many banks were getting complaints from depositers that they had put money in but the banks said we have not recieved anything or words to that effect this went on for a while untill it was discovered that someone had been attaching a sack to the inside of the chute and turning up in the early hours of the morning and removing his sack with all the cash and cheques .....dont think they ever caught who was responsible and often wondered how much he got away with ! that song " i wish it could be christmas everyday " could have been written for him !
the playing cards were always folded down the middle to reduce the size of the card so it was easily hidden in the palm of the hand . if the dealer was particularly good at his job ( most were ) the queen wasnt even on the table it was still in his hand ffs so no you could never win , if two cards were backed he would show the 2 of spades on both cards , you naturally assumed the 3rd card was the queen, in the very very rare occasion that all 3 cards were backed a scuffle would ensue the table would go over and the punters would be scampering about trying to pick up their money , order would resume and the game started again , so remember there was never ever a chance you could win at the 3 card table, its called sleight of hand fgs
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