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Citing severe depression.
Shocker, although that explains his AWOLS.
Marmite man, end of an era - good luck with your battles King Kieren.
Shocker, although that explains his AWOLS.
Marmite man, end of an era - good luck with your battles King Kieren.
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Ima mazed will present a 35 page summary of his life and times later today.
Don't think he will be too disappointed. Still got Spencer in his 'stable' and I am sure there are hours of endless fun to be had with Oisin.
Murtagh wasn't holding any punches talking about Fallon on ATR, clearly still in the dark ages,
Let's just hope him or his family ever suffer with depression,Maybe then his attitude about it may change.
Let's just hope him or his family ever suffer with depression,Maybe then his attitude about it may change.
It is all rather sad.
There's no doubt Kieren is a seriously flawed character but he was not without humour and I agree that in his heyday there is a strong case he was the best since Piggott.
The diagnosis does explain some of his odd behaviour in the last few years.
There's no doubt Kieren is a seriously flawed character but he was not without humour and I agree that in his heyday there is a strong case he was the best since Piggott.
The diagnosis does explain some of his odd behaviour in the last few years.
CheltenhamRoar, you can't blame people for not understanding how terrible it can be. They simply have no idea what it can do if they aint come across it. It's just ignorance of the condition.
I had a good friend who suffered from this illness. I visited hin one day and noticed he had a pack of Prozac on his table. Sadly he took his own life approx: nine months later.
I don't have the figures at hand but the amount of people who take there own lives in this country is frightening. (the majority being men)
I don't have the figures at hand but the amount of people who take there own lives in this country is frightening. (the majority being men)
At his best he was sensational and the finest jockey of his era. Of course he was a flawed genius but that's the way I like them. The riding equivalent of Diego Maradona with a hint of Ronnie O'Sullivan.
I remember he did a (very good) interview with Lydia Hislop after riding a winner at one of the big Spring meetings (might have been Chester) and there were a couple of hints as to what the problem was - it was almost as if he wanted to talk about it openly but could n't bring himself to do so.
It must be a very difficult condition for a professional athlete to manage -motivation is key and yet you might be struggling to find a reason to get out of bed in the morning.
Good luck to him - the key will be finding the best way to manage his condition for him.
It must be a very difficult condition for a professional athlete to manage -motivation is key and yet you might be struggling to find a reason to get out of bed in the morning.
Good luck to him - the key will be finding the best way to manage his condition for him.
ITV should sign him for their coverage. His knowledge of horses is as good as his riding.
Hopefully now that his state of health has been revealed to the public, he will be given the appropriate privacy and will choose to surround himself with people who have his best interests at heart to combat this awful condition that affects far more individuals than most realise.
Some of my most cherished moments and memories from the track are from an era when Kieren was central to everything that happened, so much so that I named my first born after him, just as well it was a boy...!
My best wishes to him for recovery from this illness that so few understand.
Some of my most cherished moments and memories from the track are from an era when Kieren was central to everything that happened, so much so that I named my first born after him, just as well it was a boy...!
My best wishes to him for recovery from this illness that so few understand.
As someone has already said - he was marmite and you could love him and hate him usually on the same day but no one could ever question his undoubted talent - he deffo goes down as one of the greats in the modern era and heres wishing him all the best support in the world in his battles ahead
Hope he gets well soon but his days as a top class rider ended with the bad fall that damaged his shoulder. He was never quite as good after that.
Cork Langer:
I think from the number of Kieren's riding at the moment that many others did as well.
When first seeing him riding in Scotland and the North he was a favourite of mine.
I hope that he can make a good recovery. Did Pat Eddery's problems not also start with depression? In many way being a Jockey is a lonely life and with long days and all the travelling is a hard one.
He would be a great pundit for ITV when it starts its racing coverage and when he writes his memoirs they will be sensational.
I think from the number of Kieren's riding at the moment that many others did as well.
When first seeing him riding in Scotland and the North he was a favourite of mine.
I hope that he can make a good recovery. Did Pat Eddery's problems not also start with depression? In many way being a Jockey is a lonely life and with long days and all the travelling is a hard one.
He would be a great pundit for ITV when it starts its racing coverage and when he writes his memoirs they will be sensational.
Many inside the industry have been aware for a number of years, though I doubt that most appreciated to what degree or understood what the actual problem was.
Now that it is public news though it will hopefully lift some of the burden he has been carrying around with him, I hope that he will reach a point sometime in the future where he is able to provide us with his memoirs, as you say they should be a must read.
Now that it is public news though it will hopefully lift some of the burden he has been carrying around with him, I hope that he will reach a point sometime in the future where he is able to provide us with his memoirs, as you say they should be a must read.
never looked happy to me its like every smile was forced , when he was good he was good , but he actually looked worn out in the end , don't think he cd have laced steve cauthen boots myself ,
depression is not a sign of weakness , its just you have been trying too hard for too long sometimes !
depression is not a sign of weakness , its just you have been trying too hard for too long sometimes !
Wouldn't wish depression on anyone so i hope he gets over that. However, from a racing point of view it's simply good riddance. Simply not to be trusted.
saddo 04 Jul 16 11:24
CheltenhamRoar, you can't blame people for not understanding how terrible it can be. They simply have no idea what it can do if they aint come across it. It's just ignorance of the condition.
Disagree Saddo.
Sure, suffering from any disease gives you first hand experience, but you can gain knowledge of an illness and an appreciation of its consequences without actually having to suffer yourself. There's plenty of information in the daily press/media/ tv concerning mental health issues nowadays. The internet is also a wealth of information of people's actual struggles.
Ignorance is no excuse
CheltenhamRoar, you can't blame people for not understanding how terrible it can be. They simply have no idea what it can do if they aint come across it. It's just ignorance of the condition.
Disagree Saddo.
Sure, suffering from any disease gives you first hand experience, but you can gain knowledge of an illness and an appreciation of its consequences without actually having to suffer yourself. There's plenty of information in the daily press/media/ tv concerning mental health issues nowadays. The internet is also a wealth of information of people's actual struggles.
Ignorance is no excuse
sparrow 04 Jul 16 10:33
Ima mazed will present a 35 page summary of his life and times later today.
I'm guessing there's an element of friendly ribbing there but even so, I leave that to others who seem far more obsessed by him than I'll ever be.
My only thought on it is I wouldn't be too surprised if he came back to race riding later on.
Ima mazed will present a 35 page summary of his life and times later today.
I'm guessing there's an element of friendly ribbing there but even so, I leave that to others who seem far more obsessed by him than I'll ever be.
My only thought on it is I wouldn't be too surprised if he came back to race riding later on.
I said a long time ago on here that the day he stops riding he seems the type that will top himself. I obviously hope that doesn't happen and didn't know at the time of his depression, though this is not a long term thing afaik and as such he shouldn't be treated like the saint you'll no doubt think he is after reading the various cringeworthy stuff from the journos tomorrow. Some people have obviously lost the run of themselves with the plaudits on here but that's their opinions. Like about 99% of Irish racing fans he couldn't hold a candle to Murtagh or Kinane at their best imop.
MJK 04 Jul 16 14:56
.....Like about 99% of Irish racing fans he couldn't hold a candle to Murtagh or Kinane at their best imop.
In fairness I'd have said most Irish racing fans don't ride enough winners to hold a candle to any jockey.
.....Like about 99% of Irish racing fans he couldn't hold a candle to Murtagh or Kinane at their best imop.
In fairness I'd have said most Irish racing fans don't ride enough winners to hold a candle to any jockey.
My favourite jockey in his pomp and the one you'd have your last quid on, although those who were unlucky enough to have said quid on Ballinger Ridge one day would beg to differ.
I think that's as well balanced as one could get on the subject, hope he finds someway of dealing with the illness and continues working with horses in some way as I think I recall him saying before that he likes the stuff within the yard and on the gallops.
Good Luck Kieren.
I think that's as well balanced as one could get on the subject, hope he finds someway of dealing with the illness and continues working with horses in some way as I think I recall him saying before that he likes the stuff within the yard and on the gallops.
Good Luck Kieren.
Jul 4, 2016 -- 9:36AM, ima_mazed66 wrote:
MJK 04 Jul 16 14:56 .....Like about 99% of Irish racing fans he couldn't hold a candle to Murtagh or Kinane at their best imop.In fairness I'd have said most Irish racing fans don't ride enough winners to hold a candle to any jockey.
As in their thoughts on who was a better jockey. May also be partly to do with the other two being held I such high esteem as people compared to him. Anyway sorry if you felt hurt by the observation.
Kinane and Murtagh were better jockeys than Fallon. And, as for those who have suggested he should be on ITV when they get the gig, there are enough ex jockeys in the media who are crap without one more!
I wish him well though.
I wish him well though.
no way would he get a tv gig, too unreliable, there'd be an empty chair more times than not, with the presenter having to inform us Kieren was "stuck in traffic"
No I didn't feel hurt by it MJK, it's jsut that I just have a bit of a tendency to become a little flippant when I hear or read what I consider to be nonsense.
Sorry if you maybe feel hurt by that.
Sorry if you maybe feel hurt by that.
Cork Langer.
There many types of depression and many successful people in business, politics, show business and sport suffer from it. My oldest friend who had a successful career and no obvious problems in life suffered from it. Though in his case it ran in his family and his mother and sister both had it.
I found Kieren a good subject to photograph when at the races and he mostly had a smiling face but we don't know how he was in private.
There many types of depression and many successful people in business, politics, show business and sport suffer from it. My oldest friend who had a successful career and no obvious problems in life suffered from it. Though in his case it ran in his family and his mother and sister both had it.
I found Kieren a good subject to photograph when at the races and he mostly had a smiling face but we don't know how he was in private.
Jul 4, 2016 -- 10:57AM, ima_mazed66 wrote:
No I didn't feel hurt by it MJK, it's jsut that I just have a bit of a tendency to become a little flippant when I hear or read what I consider to be nonsense.Sorry if you maybe feel hurt by that.
Particularly about Fallon
Look on the Brightside, you won't have to keep posting on those threads anymore where everyone else is obsessed by the man
Oh I'm sure some will still find a way to blame him for something somehow. 
people who suffer from depression are obviously more prone to addictions.......when u r in pain, u will reach for something to take u out of it..........best of luck kieran.........try and stay away from recreation drugs and alcohol........
When he was riding for the Ramsdens, he got left about 10 yards behind at the start, still won. Would have been 999/1 on here.
Loved him ever since, had a pretty big bet on that day.
When he was riding for Stoute he was the best jockey i have ever seen, even better than Cauthen.
Hope he has an uneventful next 20 years.
Loved him ever since, had a pretty big bet on that day.
When he was riding for Stoute he was the best jockey i have ever seen, even better than Cauthen.
Hope he has an uneventful next 20 years.
Its a pity the Dublin drug gang didnt get a hold of him and then he wouldnt have to worry about this phantom depression.
What are all these cokks doing wishing him well because hes suffering from depression.
Who the fukk says hes depressed ? The only one i hear saying it is himself, and i wouldnt believe him if he told me today was Monday.
What are all these cokks doing wishing him well because hes suffering from depression.
Who the fukk says hes depressed ? The only one i hear saying it is himself, and i wouldnt believe him if he told me today was Monday.
I thought you of all people mincer11 would have some empathy with him, considering you are hardly a bundle of joy yourself and always come across as depressing as fcuk!
Oh and lol @ your Walter Mitty life, pretending you know what's actually going on elsewhere.
Oh and lol @ your Walter Mitty life, pretending you know what's actually going on elsewhere.
if you are alive today and not at least mildly depressed on occassions, you are violently delusional
i wouldnt touch those anti depressants tho, no chance, just like those animals that know not to eat GM food, depression is definitely influenced by external factors, the world is in some unnatural nick and they act as if its your brain that is the problem and they can fix it with a pill, millions have depression, nature doesnt get it that badly wrong im afraid, depression is a widespread symptom of something other than a chemical imbalance in the brain
as I say, youd have to be delusional to be happy at all times with reality today, those pills they give you are nothing but zombie makers, they do nothing positive for your brain unless you consider blocking reality positive
as I say, youd have to be delusional to be happy at all times with reality today, those pills they give you are nothing but zombie makers, they do nothing positive for your brain unless you consider blocking reality positive
I thought you of all people mincer11 would have some empathy with him, considering you are hardly a bundle of joy yourself and always come across as depressing as fcuk!
NORTH BERWICK • July 4, 2016 7:53 PM BST
Wonderful jockey when at his prime
But not better than Cauthen.
Wonderful jockey when at his prime
But not better than Cauthen.
My favourite ever jockey, though sadly he was past his best for years. When i think of Fallon i think of the years leading up to him getting the job with Cecil, when he was the ramsdens jockey, and the years he had with cecil before he had the fall at ascot. In that three or four year period he was a god in the saddle. Most of the time he was way off the pace and seemingly always got up on the line to win, he pulled off so many unbelievale rides int that time. Probably the finest ride i ever saw him give was on kalanisi at royal ascot when he was pushig the horse along from the moment it left the stalls and still got it up. Absolutely amazing jockey at his best. Shame he went on for so long because he has been dire forr the last few years.
duffy
"no way would he get a tv gig, too unreliable, there'd be an empty chair more times than not, with the presenter having to inform us Kieren was "stuck in traffic"
My lasting image of Fallon will be those years when he was at his best, focused and controlled, he was easily one of the all-time greats. I know a lot of events went spiralling out of his control, even though a lot of it was his own making. A bit surprised he has depression, always thought Fallon was tougher than most, but we don't know the inner turnmoil he must have been going through.
"no way would he get a tv gig, too unreliable, there'd be an empty chair more times than not, with the presenter having to inform us Kieren was "stuck in traffic"
My lasting image of Fallon will be those years when he was at his best, focused and controlled, he was easily one of the all-time greats. I know a lot of events went spiralling out of his control, even though a lot of it was his own making. A bit surprised he has depression, always thought Fallon was tougher than most, but we don't know the inner turnmoil he must have been going through.
pandora1963 05 Jul 16 12:34
.......Shame he went on for so long because he has been dire forr the last few years.
Winning the 2,0000gns and being the only jockey to ride a winner against Kingman, who I would imagine John Gasden would say was one of, if not the best horse he has ever trained and the host of group race winners Fallon rode for Godolphin in the last few years would suggest otherwise.
Richard Hughes summed it up well when saying of Fallon "For a man of his calibre the mounts he's been getting just lately would make anyone depressed."
It is, has been and always will be far more about the horses than the jockeys, yet Fallon was still able to ride groups winners every season he was riding right up to his final one, assuming this actually will be his final one that is.
.......Shame he went on for so long because he has been dire forr the last few years.
Winning the 2,0000gns and being the only jockey to ride a winner against Kingman, who I would imagine John Gasden would say was one of, if not the best horse he has ever trained and the host of group race winners Fallon rode for Godolphin in the last few years would suggest otherwise.
Richard Hughes summed it up well when saying of Fallon "For a man of his calibre the mounts he's been getting just lately would make anyone depressed."
It is, has been and always will be far more about the horses than the jockeys, yet Fallon was still able to ride groups winners every season he was riding right up to his final one, assuming this actually will be his final one that is.
i know he rode the guineas winner, doesnt change the fact he was a shadow of the jock he was in the late 90s or early noughties
No, just changes the fact that he was no longer riding the quality of horses supplied by Cecil, O'Brien and Stoute that he was in the 90s or early noughties.
Like I said, it's more about the horses than jockeys and Dettori couldn't buy a winner when he first came back from his ban and old stable associations had moved on. Yet once he started getting back on better ones owned by Al Shaqab Racing and then got the Gosden job, he's never looked back.
From winning the Arc on Dylan Thomas and then being banned, until coming back from that ban Fallon rode 42 group race winners and with the most recent being in May of this year, including several Gr1 or Grade 1 winners in several countries with home and overseas classic and Royal Ascot winners in those totals. Plus in the first few full seasons after coming back when still trying for the jockey title he rode 140 and 154 winners and finished 3rd in the jockey table in one of those seasons.
Of course if you only concentrate on the bread and butter type races and poor quality horses he was riding where many were well beaten around halfway, then it's easy to conclude he was a shadow of his former self, yet if that were true then how do you explain those 42 group race wins? Was he forgetting and then remembering again what to do between those winners or suddenly improving and then deteriorate again between them?
Like I said, it's more about the horses than jockeys and Dettori couldn't buy a winner when he first came back from his ban and old stable associations had moved on. Yet once he started getting back on better ones owned by Al Shaqab Racing and then got the Gosden job, he's never looked back.
From winning the Arc on Dylan Thomas and then being banned, until coming back from that ban Fallon rode 42 group race winners and with the most recent being in May of this year, including several Gr1 or Grade 1 winners in several countries with home and overseas classic and Royal Ascot winners in those totals. Plus in the first few full seasons after coming back when still trying for the jockey title he rode 140 and 154 winners and finished 3rd in the jockey table in one of those seasons.
Of course if you only concentrate on the bread and butter type races and poor quality horses he was riding where many were well beaten around halfway, then it's easy to conclude he was a shadow of his former self, yet if that were true then how do you explain those 42 group race wins? Was he forgetting and then remembering again what to do between those winners or suddenly improving and then deteriorate again between them?
its harder to win on bad horses than good horses, he won on a hell of a lot of bad horses that n one else would have
its harder to win on bad horses than good horses, he won on a hell of a lot of bad horses that n one else would have
cor hark at u lot waxing lyrical about a jockey to my mind that was so deep in corruption of our sport its beyond belief , he was involved with the chinese mafia , he was supposedly shagging any mans wife , he apparrentley likes a snifter or 5 he pulled ballinger ridge, he pulled a fellow jockey off a horse cos he couldnt get his way ( stewart webster ) the man imho was not a nice fella and i hope hes effing depressed , theres a hell of lot that are now smiling hes gone , cheerio i say and good riddance
I congratulate you michael59 as it takes a special kind of talent to get so much wrong in such a relatively short post.
Fallon was a brilliant jockey but a flawed human being but the funniest part was the bit about pulling Ballinger Ridge though and if you genuinely believe that then I don't really need to go any further.
Fallon was a brilliant jockey but a flawed human being but the funniest part was the bit about pulling Ballinger Ridge though and if you genuinely believe that then I don't really need to go any further.
i wonder why no one can see the ballinger ridge race that im talking about? how strange this race seems to have been pulled
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/racing/fallon-threw-race-on-ballinger-rid... this is what was reported at the time sad i cant put up the actual race as its strangely missing ,,,
http://www.independent.ie/sport/horse-racing/richard-forristal-legacy-of-a-f...
Well if you think a jockey can go 10L clear, ease down a furlong out and then start vigorously riding his horse again with half a furlong to go and then get beaten a nose in his one and only chance of doing it then that really is amazing.
As for relying on the New of the World as a source for the Triads claim, not only did they have to settle out of court when Fallon took legal action but whatever happened to that fine newspaper anyway? Why not go to court if they had such strong evidence against Fallon? I've read on here too when trying to justify the claims that the Hong Kong Jockey Club refused Fallon a licence to ride there on the back of those claims, when he was injured and that's why his licence wasn't renewed:
Winfried Engelbrecht-Bresges, the Hong Kong Jockey Club's director of racing, said last night: "I spoke with Kieren Fallon in July 2000 about a month after the fall in which he injured his shoulder and it was already clear at that stage that he would not be fit enough to ride in Hong Kong the next season.
"That is why he did not come to Hong Kong again. But he is not barred from racing here - in fact, he was licensed to ride at the last international meeting in December and the only reason he did not come was because he did not have a ride."
Henry Cecil also had to pay Fallon £300,000 in an out-of-court settlement for unfair dismissal regarding the sex with his wife allegations, which probably the basis behind such claims as "he was supposedly shagging any mans wife."
From what I have heard Stuart Webster was a bit of a weighing room bully and in that particular race at Beverley almost put a young apprentice over the rails with a dangerous move during the race and rightly or wrongly, that's the reason he pulled him off his horse and not "cos he couldnt get his way" and I'm sure plenty of young and now not so young jockeys will tell you that Fallon helped and looked after them when they first started riding and often at a finical cost to himself.
Webster also falsely claimed Fallon assaulted him after the race back in the weighing room, a claim printed in the NotW after which the paper later issued an apology to Fallon, acknowledging the allegation was false. Then when the Andrew Longmore's book Kieren Fallon The Biography of the Controversial Jockey was published, it repeated Webster's quotes without reference to the subsequent retraction from the NotW. The publisher's then decided the book then had to be recalled from off the shelves.
So not really much left to work with from your initial post michael59 and I would also imagine anywhere the Ballinger Ridge video appeared online also has highly libellous comments from people appearing with it, so that is probably the reason the hosting sites of the videos either removed them or were asked to do so for legal reasons.
As for relying on the New of the World as a source for the Triads claim, not only did they have to settle out of court when Fallon took legal action but whatever happened to that fine newspaper anyway? Why not go to court if they had such strong evidence against Fallon? I've read on here too when trying to justify the claims that the Hong Kong Jockey Club refused Fallon a licence to ride there on the back of those claims, when he was injured and that's why his licence wasn't renewed:
Winfried Engelbrecht-Bresges, the Hong Kong Jockey Club's director of racing, said last night: "I spoke with Kieren Fallon in July 2000 about a month after the fall in which he injured his shoulder and it was already clear at that stage that he would not be fit enough to ride in Hong Kong the next season.
"That is why he did not come to Hong Kong again. But he is not barred from racing here - in fact, he was licensed to ride at the last international meeting in December and the only reason he did not come was because he did not have a ride."
Henry Cecil also had to pay Fallon £300,000 in an out-of-court settlement for unfair dismissal regarding the sex with his wife allegations, which probably the basis behind such claims as "he was supposedly shagging any mans wife."
From what I have heard Stuart Webster was a bit of a weighing room bully and in that particular race at Beverley almost put a young apprentice over the rails with a dangerous move during the race and rightly or wrongly, that's the reason he pulled him off his horse and not "cos he couldnt get his way" and I'm sure plenty of young and now not so young jockeys will tell you that Fallon helped and looked after them when they first started riding and often at a finical cost to himself.
Webster also falsely claimed Fallon assaulted him after the race back in the weighing room, a claim printed in the NotW after which the paper later issued an apology to Fallon, acknowledging the allegation was false. Then when the Andrew Longmore's book Kieren Fallon The Biography of the Controversial Jockey was published, it repeated Webster's quotes without reference to the subsequent retraction from the NotW. The publisher's then decided the book then had to be recalled from off the shelves.
So not really much left to work with from your initial post michael59 and I would also imagine anywhere the Ballinger Ridge video appeared online also has highly libellous comments from people appearing with it, so that is probably the reason the hosting sites of the videos either removed them or were asked to do so for legal reasons.
The news of his retirement didn't surprise me as I was recently wondering how he could make it pay riding no-hopers around Irish tracks, often one ride on the card. I wish him well, though it won't be easy to readjust to 'normal' life, away from race riding. Just hope we don't end up seeing him deteriorate like Alex Higgins hanging around in betting shops. BTW what was it that Murtagh said about him on ATR when he didn't pull any punches?
it takes a special kind of talent to get so much wrong in such a relatively short post.
Ima - you tend to do it on a regular basis though.
And in my opinion Fallon was cheating on Ballinger Ridge regardless of what you say or put up, but I do feel a little sorry for anyone with depression.
Ima - you tend to do it on a regular basis though.
And in my opinion Fallon was cheating on Ballinger Ridge regardless of what you say or put up, but I do feel a little sorry for anyone with depression.
I hope he becomes a pundit....I have never heard him talk anything but sense....He aint no bullsh1tter.
michael59 05 Jul 16 17:21
cor hark at u lot waxing lyrical about a jockey to my mind that was so deep in corruption of our sport its beyond belief , he was involved with the chinese mafia , he was supposedly shagging any mans wife , he apparrentley likes a snifter or 5 he pulled ballinger ridge, he pulled a fellow jockey off a horse cos he couldnt get his way ( stewart webster ) the man imho was not a nice fella and i hope hes effing depressed , theres a hell of lot that are now smiling hes gone , cheerio i say and good ridd................
And i bet this is a guy who never did any wrong.
cor hark at u lot waxing lyrical about a jockey to my mind that was so deep in corruption of our sport its beyond belief , he was involved with the chinese mafia , he was supposedly shagging any mans wife , he apparrentley likes a snifter or 5 he pulled ballinger ridge, he pulled a fellow jockey off a horse cos he couldnt get his way ( stewart webster ) the man imho was not a nice fella and i hope hes effing depressed , theres a hell of lot that are now smiling hes gone , cheerio i say and good ridd................
And i bet this is a guy who never did any wrong.
Merely saying I do it on a regular basis though Magic__Daps doesn't actually make it the case, as much as maybe you would like it to, but please feel free to point out some examples of what you think I have said and I'll be happy to correct you and say what I have actually said.
And if your reply is as accurate as you believing Fallon cheating on Baillinger Ridge, then I don't really think I have too much to be concerned about really.
And if your reply is as accurate as you believing Fallon cheating on Baillinger Ridge, then I don't really think I have too much to be concerned about really.
Re ballinger ridge, ever heard of 'in play' betting on a website called 'betfair'? You should look into it, win or lose you can make a profit, hth.
And how does any of that change my point about?
"Well if you think a jockey can go 10L clear, ease down a furlong out and then start vigorously riding his horse again with half a furlong to go and then get beaten a nose in his one and only chance of doing it then that really is amazing."
Let's just say that when he was supposedly meant to be losing he inadvertently won by a nose instead on his one and only live chance to do what some laughably claim he was doing, then what? Apologise and ask is it OK if they rewind a bit and he has another go?
Talk about totally missing the point!
"Well if you think a jockey can go 10L clear, ease down a furlong out and then start vigorously riding his horse again with half a furlong to go and then get beaten a nose in his one and only chance of doing it then that really is amazing."
Let's just say that when he was supposedly meant to be losing he inadvertently won by a nose instead on his one and only live chance to do what some laughably claim he was doing, then what? Apologise and ask is it OK if they rewind a bit and he has another go?
Talk about totally missing the point!
^^^^^^ please retire from this nonsense you head case ^^^^
So let me see if I follow here, you claim to have blocked me so presumably can't see what's being said and then claim what I am saying is nonsense......And yet I'm the one supposed to be the head case here?
I don't think you quite understand how in-play betting works Ima, back in the day it was where a huge amount of money used to go. Perhaps there is a youtube tutorial for you to watch to help you out
Assuming you're not on a wind up, I think it's actually you who doesn't understand Captain Christy and I know full well what in-play betting is and how it works, but once again you seem to be missing the point and if I've explained it to you already and you still don't get it then I suppose I will have to just admit defeat here.
Not trying to be rude either but forgive me if a choose to not take any lessons from anyone over the age of about 12 who uses the expression back in the day.
Not trying to be rude either but forgive me if a choose to not take any lessons from anyone over the age of about 12 who uses the expression back in the day.
Deary me, can someone please explain it to this fcukwit, I can't be arst with him 
over the age of about 12 who uses the expression back in the day.
And pleeeaaaase I can't believe you have ever heard a kid use that phrase, are you fcuking insane?
And pleeeaaaase I can't believe you have ever heard a kid use that phrase, are you fcuking insane?
Captain Christy 06 Jul 16 19:21
Deary me, can someone please explain it to this fcukwit, I can't be arst with him.
I think my user name needs to be on that as the poster of that message unfortunately.
There's nothing funnier than someone else clearly incapable of comprehending the actual point being made here and then trying to talk down to others.
Deary me, can someone please explain it to this fcukwit, I can't be arst with him.
I think my user name needs to be on that as the poster of that message unfortunately.
There's nothing funnier than someone else clearly incapable of comprehending the actual point being made here and then trying to talk down to others.
There is actually nothing funnier than continuing to think everyone else is wrong and you are right.
And argument consisting of 'I know you are but what am I?' and 'I'd expect someone under 12 to say that', well words fail me, I haven't heard these since I was at primary school myself, but as that is your level I shall leave you to it.
Captain Christy, you are worse for engaging with the prikk. I blocked the tool many moons ago and I haven't regretted it. He'd argue with his toes, if you said it was night he'd say it was day. He's just an argumentative tossser who thinks he's a lot more clever than he actually is.
You only have to look at the times he posts to see what kind of fruitcake we are dealing with, it's invariably in the middle of the night .
You only have to look at the times he posts to see what kind of fruitcake we are dealing with, it's invariably in the middle of the night .
That it is entirely possible for a jockey to take payment to deliberately get beaten when those paying him lay it in play on here has never been in question by me, yet what you are struggling to grasp Captain Christy is when those who say that was the case with Ballinger Ridge, my view on that and the circumstance I specifically questioned were:
"Well if you think a jockey can go 10L clear, ease down a furlong out and then start vigorously riding his horse again with half a furlong to go and then get beaten a nose in his one and only chance of doing it then that really is amazing."
I was questioning the likelihood of that jockey being such a great judge of pace that he could do that and yet deliberately still get beaten by such a narrow margin, especially considering he has no control over what happens with the other horse too. Now I'm sorry, I can explain it to you but I can’t understand it for you, that's your goal to try to achieve and of course I think I'm always right. I'm hardly going to argue my case thinking I'm wrong am I, or are you telling me that's something you do then?
Oh and the irony of you using expressions like "back in the day" as if you think you are somehow getting "down wid da kids innit" and then when I suggest nobody over 12 with any self respect should be using Americanisms like that, you make reference to primary school behaviour. You'll be wearing baseball caps back to front next I would imagine!
And yet you continue to post without fail in almost every thread I post in and make reference to me mincer11.
As for being called a pr1ck, tool or **** by you, I find that quite amusing coming from someone who would struggle to pour water out of a welly boot without instructions on the heel.
Oh and just because you clearly have your waking up, meal times and lights out decided for you, doesn't mean that everyone else has a institutionalised lifestyle or does a 9-5 job. There has to be something mentally deficient about someone who has to resort to instigating person abuse on the basis of just happening to take a different view on certain subjects than someone else, but I expect you're a bit of an old hand at personal abuse anyway.
"Well if you think a jockey can go 10L clear, ease down a furlong out and then start vigorously riding his horse again with half a furlong to go and then get beaten a nose in his one and only chance of doing it then that really is amazing."
I was questioning the likelihood of that jockey being such a great judge of pace that he could do that and yet deliberately still get beaten by such a narrow margin, especially considering he has no control over what happens with the other horse too. Now I'm sorry, I can explain it to you but I can’t understand it for you, that's your goal to try to achieve and of course I think I'm always right. I'm hardly going to argue my case thinking I'm wrong am I, or are you telling me that's something you do then?
Oh and the irony of you using expressions like "back in the day" as if you think you are somehow getting "down wid da kids innit" and then when I suggest nobody over 12 with any self respect should be using Americanisms like that, you make reference to primary school behaviour. You'll be wearing baseball caps back to front next I would imagine!
And yet you continue to post without fail in almost every thread I post in and make reference to me mincer11.
As for being called a pr1ck, tool or **** by you, I find that quite amusing coming from someone who would struggle to pour water out of a welly boot without instructions on the heel.
Oh and just because you clearly have your waking up, meal times and lights out decided for you, doesn't mean that everyone else has a institutionalised lifestyle or does a 9-5 job. There has to be something mentally deficient about someone who has to resort to instigating person abuse on the basis of just happening to take a different view on certain subjects than someone else, but I expect you're a bit of an old hand at personal abuse anyway.
Ballinger Ridge was a pig of a horse.The day fallon rode him he was still a 19 race madian runing off a mark of 60.He was a horse i would lay all day.
True cloone river but without a doubt the horse could and should have won that particular race and Fallon himself I doubt would deny that, but the fact it didn't win splits those who know it was a genuine human error c0ck up and those who prefer fairy tales.
but the fact it didn't win splits those who know it was a genuine human error c0ck up and those who prefer fairy tales
You don't KNOW though, your opinion is that it was human error. Only Fallon and a few people will know if it was actually corrupt.
You don't KNOW though, your opinion is that it was human error. Only Fallon and a few people will know if it was actually corrupt.
I know what my eyes see and I know common sense and probability too.
He raced tight up against the rail which was to his left and looked over his right shoulder and saw he was clear and OK from the rest of the field, yet didn't spot the fav due to it also racing tight on the rail in his slipstream. He later took a second look over his right shoulder and then saw the fav which had by now drifted off of the rail and was racing down the centre of the course.
You then physically see Fallon get the shock of his life having not previously seen the fav and start to get his horse going again, only to be beaten a nose by today's distances and the probability of being able to do that on his one and only go at it is extremely unlikely and was what Captain Christy was struggling to understand.
What I also know is he was banned for 21 days and missed the Dubai World Cup meeting as a result but wasn't banned for throwing the race. I also know the Old Bailey case was rightly laughed out of court too. I also know his horse was 15/8 on the day and was beaten by the 8/11f (albeit that it shouldn't have been) and the rest of the runners were priced at 9/1, 20/1, 25/1, 25/1, 50/1, 66/1, 66/1 and 66/1, so it was hardly a shock that he thought the odds-on fav would be the most likely winner if asked by anyway, considering his own mount was still a maiden after 19 races.
I must admit, it's also the first time I've ever heard of a jockey supposedly pulling a horse to let the odds-on fav win and apparently those laying Ballinger Ridge won £26k with a potential liability of £72k, so if the rest were no hopers and you have the jockey on the main danger to the fav in your pocket, then why not stick £72k on the fav and at the very least double the amount you stand to win?
He raced tight up against the rail which was to his left and looked over his right shoulder and saw he was clear and OK from the rest of the field, yet didn't spot the fav due to it also racing tight on the rail in his slipstream. He later took a second look over his right shoulder and then saw the fav which had by now drifted off of the rail and was racing down the centre of the course.
You then physically see Fallon get the shock of his life having not previously seen the fav and start to get his horse going again, only to be beaten a nose by today's distances and the probability of being able to do that on his one and only go at it is extremely unlikely and was what Captain Christy was struggling to understand.
What I also know is he was banned for 21 days and missed the Dubai World Cup meeting as a result but wasn't banned for throwing the race. I also know the Old Bailey case was rightly laughed out of court too. I also know his horse was 15/8 on the day and was beaten by the 8/11f (albeit that it shouldn't have been) and the rest of the runners were priced at 9/1, 20/1, 25/1, 25/1, 50/1, 66/1, 66/1 and 66/1, so it was hardly a shock that he thought the odds-on fav would be the most likely winner if asked by anyway, considering his own mount was still a maiden after 19 races.
I must admit, it's also the first time I've ever heard of a jockey supposedly pulling a horse to let the odds-on fav win and apparently those laying Ballinger Ridge won £26k with a potential liability of £72k, so if the rest were no hopers and you have the jockey on the main danger to the fav in your pocket, then why not stick £72k on the fav and at the very least double the amount you stand to win?
captain nonsensical needs to stop with the feckwit comments and go take a long hard look in the mirror....if he thinks that was a fixed race
then why not stick £72k on the fav and at the very least double the amount you stand to win?
Not sure how you double your money on an 8/11 shot plus I am pretty sure that some odds on shots do get beat. HTH
Not sure how you double your money on an 8/11 shot plus I am pretty sure that some odds on shots do get beat. HTH
Not sure how you double your money on an 8/11 shot
He means you put the 72k on the 8/11 and you would of won almost double the amount you would of laying 72k on Ballinger.
He means you put the 72k on the 8/11 and you would of won almost double the amount you would of laying 72k on Ballinger.
Broadsword, I saw innumerable instances of this guy at work in his prime. They thought they could prove it with Ballinger Ridge as it appeared the most blatant.
I didn't actually say you would double your money on a 8/11 winner, I said "double the amount you stand to win" but fair enough, we can all misunderstand what someone else means from time to time.
Yes of course some odds-on shots get beaten Magic__Daps but I've already covered how the rest were no-hopers considering the fav was 8/11, the 2nd fav 15/8 and then the next in the betting was 9/1 with everything else was 20/1 and bigger, suggesting it was a 2 horse race and one of those was apparently already bought and paid for. Plus if a 19 times raced maiden is 15/8 2nd fav in a maiden then that gives you some ideal of the quality of the rest of them bar the first two in the betting.
Thank you for explaining that grey shark and 8/11 was the SP, which presumably would have been bettered on here too.
Yes of course some odds-on shots get beaten Magic__Daps but I've already covered how the rest were no-hopers considering the fav was 8/11, the 2nd fav 15/8 and then the next in the betting was 9/1 with everything else was 20/1 and bigger, suggesting it was a 2 horse race and one of those was apparently already bought and paid for. Plus if a 19 times raced maiden is 15/8 2nd fav in a maiden then that gives you some ideal of the quality of the rest of them bar the first two in the betting.
Thank you for explaining that grey shark and 8/11 was the SP, which presumably would have been bettered on here too.
And yet you somehow felt the need to say so Captain Christy.
I wish I could block out your nonsense about:
Captain Christy 08 Jul 16 20:24
Broadsword, I saw innumerable instances of this guy at work in his prime. They thought they could prove it with Ballinger Ridge as it appeared the most blatant.
So let's look at the 27 races involved in the court case where Darren Williams lost on 4 from 4, Fergal Lynch lost 5 out or 6 and admits regarding the one he won on that nothing was good enough to go by him and yet Fallon won on 5 out of 17, which is a winning strike rate of around 29-30% and this was when he was trying to lose? Any jockey would be delighted with that strike rate when trying to win, plus the 5 winners Fallon rode cost the layers £160,256, £165,905, £105,078, £106,832 and £19,140.
Clearly a well run race-fixing syndicate then, or then again maybe the jockey wining all of these races and costing the syndicate such big money wasn't actually aware that he was supposed to be losing on them and someone within that syndicate might just have overplayed their hand a little about how sure they were those horses would be losing.
I don't doubt for one minute that Fallon gave out opinions on his mounts to people (both good and bad opinions) and he admitted as much at his trial that Michael Owen used to ask him for them via text and I expect he gave them out to Shaun Lynch and Philip Sherkle too, but I would find it hard to believe that he would be charging them for that, although clearly any of them were free to back or lay horses based on those opinions.
I wish I could block out your nonsense about:
Captain Christy 08 Jul 16 20:24
Broadsword, I saw innumerable instances of this guy at work in his prime. They thought they could prove it with Ballinger Ridge as it appeared the most blatant.
So let's look at the 27 races involved in the court case where Darren Williams lost on 4 from 4, Fergal Lynch lost 5 out or 6 and admits regarding the one he won on that nothing was good enough to go by him and yet Fallon won on 5 out of 17, which is a winning strike rate of around 29-30% and this was when he was trying to lose? Any jockey would be delighted with that strike rate when trying to win, plus the 5 winners Fallon rode cost the layers £160,256, £165,905, £105,078, £106,832 and £19,140.
Clearly a well run race-fixing syndicate then, or then again maybe the jockey wining all of these races and costing the syndicate such big money wasn't actually aware that he was supposed to be losing on them and someone within that syndicate might just have overplayed their hand a little about how sure they were those horses would be losing.
I don't doubt for one minute that Fallon gave out opinions on his mounts to people (both good and bad opinions) and he admitted as much at his trial that Michael Owen used to ask him for them via text and I expect he gave them out to Shaun Lynch and Philip Sherkle too, but I would find it hard to believe that he would be charging them for that, although clearly any of them were free to back or lay horses based on those opinions.
Blocked and rightly so Captain Christy , you can't say I didn't pre warn you , I've been through this nonsense before with this lunatic .
You won't regret it either, I can guarantee it. Not a bad idea either is to block anyone who agrees with the fool on a regular basis, and I have done that to broadsword who I assume is backing him up on this thread.
You won't regret it either, I can guarantee it. Not a bad idea either is to block anyone who agrees with the fool on a regular basis, and I have done that to broadsword who I assume is backing him up on this thread.
Nothing to do with the subject of the thread, but, out of interest, may I ask a genuine question about laying?
Do individuals actually lay £72K on known non-triers on the exchanges?
Personally, I know nothing about this side of things, though I am convinced that there are plenty of non-triers in racing. That view is based on watching races, and, from talking to jockeys over the years.
Do individuals actually lay £72K on known non-triers on the exchanges?
Personally, I know nothing about this side of things, though I am convinced that there are plenty of non-triers in racing. That view is based on watching races, and, from talking to jockeys over the years.
When betfair was at its height and certain jockeys were riding it was way obvious that it was going on. But certain rides, bans and monitored accounts and individuals mean that there is less of it these days. Certainly there have been convictions and warnings off.
I'd be surprised sean rua if Ballinger Ridge was a known non-trier considering how the horse was ridden and a far more likely scenario would be that Fallon had been asked about the chances of his mounts that day at Lingfield and Ballinger Ridge still being a maiden after 19 races and with a likely odd-on fav in the race presumably wasn't one he was over keen on.
I suppose if you directly or indirectly have the word that the jockey doesn't fancy his mount then you would lay it for as much as you could but I suppose a lot depends on definitions of and individual judgements of what was a non-trier and what just wasn't good enough to win.
Seems odd though that Fallon rode the 9/4f in that race before Ballinger Ridge that was a winner the time before but there were no records found of the syndicate having layed that, but perhaps when asked he told the likes of Shaun Lynch and/or Philip Sherkels (who were part of that syndicate) that that horse had a chance. Ironically it finished a well beaten 9th and you would have thought they could have cleaned up on it considering they supposedly had bought off the jockey.
Fallon also rode the Evens fav in the race after Ballinger Ridge too which was also beaten and there are no records of the layers having layed this one either, yet I can probably think of a reason why. Plus just for good measure, the next race on the card was won by Darren Williams and trained by Karl Burke the jockey and trainer for syndicate leader Miles Rodgers's horses and the final race was also won by Williams on the 13/8f but once again no records were found of the syndicate ever laying those horses.
Yet despite all of those specific details and evidence to help support what I am suggesting, the likes of Captain Christy and mincer11 instead of challenging or refuting any of that, instead choose to tell me that I'm a fcukwit, prikk and a tool......A quite interesting way to conduct a debate.
I suppose if you directly or indirectly have the word that the jockey doesn't fancy his mount then you would lay it for as much as you could but I suppose a lot depends on definitions of and individual judgements of what was a non-trier and what just wasn't good enough to win.
Seems odd though that Fallon rode the 9/4f in that race before Ballinger Ridge that was a winner the time before but there were no records found of the syndicate having layed that, but perhaps when asked he told the likes of Shaun Lynch and/or Philip Sherkels (who were part of that syndicate) that that horse had a chance. Ironically it finished a well beaten 9th and you would have thought they could have cleaned up on it considering they supposedly had bought off the jockey.
Fallon also rode the Evens fav in the race after Ballinger Ridge too which was also beaten and there are no records of the layers having layed this one either, yet I can probably think of a reason why. Plus just for good measure, the next race on the card was won by Darren Williams and trained by Karl Burke the jockey and trainer for syndicate leader Miles Rodgers's horses and the final race was also won by Williams on the 13/8f but once again no records were found of the syndicate ever laying those horses.
Yet despite all of those specific details and evidence to help support what I am suggesting, the likes of Captain Christy and mincer11 instead of challenging or refuting any of that, instead choose to tell me that I'm a fcukwit, prikk and a tool......A quite interesting way to conduct a debate.
Thanks, lads.
Probably showing my naivity here, but is it actually commonplace for an individual to bet a horse to lose £72K (lay) on the exchanges?
I realise betting syndicates and bookmakers probably do, regularly.
Probably showing my naivity here, but is it actually commonplace for an individual to bet a horse to lose £72K (lay) on the exchanges?
I realise betting syndicates and bookmakers probably do, regularly.
I'm sure it does happen but I suppose it all depends on what you consider commonplace but I wouldn't have thought it was the norm in relation to the size of most people's bets, purely because not everyone would be able to cover the liability.
I'm sure some others will tell you that it is commonplace but you have to ask yourself how would they know?
I'm sure some others will tell you that it is commonplace but you have to ask yourself how would they know?
Good point, ima, but
I don't believe the exchanges have really given this "transparency" they used to boast about.
Surely, somebody "inside" must see and monitor what goes on?
In my case, the biggest bet I ever saw going on at a track was Barney C at Epsom. Didn't actually see any money change hands, but read later that the successful wager was for many thousands.
All I saw was his stepping up and saying something to the bookie.
Undoubtedly, there is a bit of "laying off" on course among bookies, but, imo, the most is done via the Machine.
Pretty sure we can't see everything, so we start second-guessing. That seems to be what happened with the Ballinger Ridge thing, imo.
Best forgotten, imo.
My best memory of the King was his winning the arc on Dylan Thomas. That's the one I'll try to keep.
I don't believe the exchanges have really given this "transparency" they used to boast about.
Surely, somebody "inside" must see and monitor what goes on?
In my case, the biggest bet I ever saw going on at a track was Barney C at Epsom. Didn't actually see any money change hands, but read later that the successful wager was for many thousands.
All I saw was his stepping up and saying something to the bookie.
Undoubtedly, there is a bit of "laying off" on course among bookies, but, imo, the most is done via the Machine.
Pretty sure we can't see everything, so we start second-guessing. That seems to be what happened with the Ballinger Ridge thing, imo.
Best forgotten, imo.
My best memory of the King was his winning the arc on Dylan Thomas. That's the one I'll try to keep.
and wasn't Dylan Thomas in that Arc the day before the Old Bailey trial started?
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