CANCER its a scandal

Interesting discussion, as a medical doctor I have for sometime thought the current "illness" model we use for health to be inefficient - promoted more to generate profits for big pharmaceutical companies.

It is estimated 5-10% of cancers have a genetic link - Olias is referring to epigenetic inheritance - genes are modifiable by lifestyle/environment - around 2% of these modified genes can be passed on during reproduction. For example, smoking can damage certain genes and a small percentage of these genes can be passed onto your offspring.

Yes, cancer can have many different causes and factors involved, the key is to have a strong immune system to oppose the cancer cells before they have a chance to invade the body. As gamblers we should aim to improve the odds in our favour by adopting lifestyle measures that support our health and immune system - this is a "Wellness" model for health.

Magic, its a red herring in the sense that if you attack the problem from a diet and lifestyle perspective you will get huge reductions in cancer rates. If you pour money into genetic research you will continue to make a small dent in the problem at best. What geneticist are really saying is that if we can identify a gene that makes you more susceptible to say bowel cancer then lets try and find a way of tinkering with that gene. What they are very careful of not telling you is that gene expression, is VERY responsive to diet. In other words for genetic mutation you need triggers and clearly diet is a major trigger. Genetic research is medicines' way of saying we just do not want to go down a non profit but effective path. If they came up with a drug for bowel cancer that mirrored the bowel cancer rates in pre westernised Uganda, it would be all over the papers as a miracle drug.

Meanwhile Dr Rob the medical profession continues to treat cancer with Radiation that knocks out the immune system. Yes radiation the one thing we are told to avoid to keep clear of cancer. Are you a functional practioner Rob ?

I have cancer myself and defy the medical profession, but

this is a terrible thread, imo.

Fact:
     there is not a man alive who knows why anybody gets cancer. It can strike anyone, and may well be in all of us.

Because about one in two of us do get it ( UK), there is tremendous fear about it. That is why there are 1001 amateur doctors and quacks all over the internet and media.
Ten real doctors, ten different opinions.

So, like myself, make up your own mind.

Sure, we can work out what is a healthy diet and what is a healthy lifestyle, BUT
please do not think that this is any guarantee that we go unscathed through life.

Like the racing game, there are many imponderables.
That's life!
That's death.

ps

please send cash only - £350 million will do - for a free information sheet on "how to cure cancer , win the lotto, and take over the world in three days".

Money back guarantee within days following your death; deceased only may apply.

Sean you have misread the thread. No one is saying that you can guarantee that you will not get cancer. What we are debating is how best to seriously lower your chances. Yes cancer is in all of us but our immune system deals with it, when it fails it then runs amok. Why is the thread terrible, talking about it is the best possible way to explore how we can improve our chances. I am sure doctors would agree that treating Cancer like the boogie man serves no one except perhaps the drug industry, They would love you all to think 'its a complicated business leave this to us to solve'.

Yes Olias, I'm a general practitioner who takes a functional/integrative/holistic approach. I agree the current 'cut, poison and burn' approach to cancer treatment is very damaging to the immune system. However, the latest research on immunotherapy treatments for cancer does look promising.

I think we need to change the way we view dis-ease, by focussing more on the causes than the symptoms. Another example is diabetes, the drugs we use merely tackle the symptom of high blood sugars and do nothing to address the causative factors for insulin resistance - diet and sedentary lifestyle. Yes some people have a genetic predisposition to diabetes, but, the diabetes prevention study clearly demonstrated these could be held in check by eating healthily and exercise.

You are right Sean, anyone can get cancer and the incidence is increasing. The body produces 100's if not 1000's of mutant cells everyday which can potentially become cancerous, however the immune system recognises them and eliminates them. As we get older the immune system starts to get weaker, making it more likely for the cancer cells to escape detection.

The key is to maintain a strong immune system - which reduces the chance of cancer developing. This is essentially the theory behind immunotherapy.

You can boost the strength of your immune system in lots of ways, not just diet and exercise, also vit d/sunshine, adequate sleep, close/caring relationships, faith and beliefs etc.

You are a rare bird indeed DrRob, finding a doctor with your views is hard but I never imagined I would come across one on here. I think things are changing however as a new generation come through. Any links on Immunothereapy ?. Where are you based ?.

Quality of sleep is vital, everyone should read Lights Out an informative book on how to improve sleep

My wife had cancer, whilst I was doing my medical training - she went through the surgery,chemo and radiation treatments successfully (15 years ago)  so then I started to look at ways she could improve her chances of preventing the cancer from returning and it all pointed to having a strong immune system.

I liken it to managing a football team and your immune system is the goalkeeper trying to stop the opposition from scoring. All the most successful teams start with a great defence.

I'm based in Stafford, but I'm a black country lad born and bred!

I know quite a few GP's who like horse-racing, don't forget Dr Newlands.

http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2016/03/03/new-immunotherapy-discovery-could-give-treatments-the-precision-they-need/

DR Rob

an hour walk every day
cardio exercise 30-45 mins 3/4 times a week
weight training twice a week
non smoker
drink perhaps 10 times a year now socially

diet

wholemeal bread almost every day
2/3 pieces of fruit every day
3/5 vegetable portions
fish,chicken and turkey, red meat very rare, processed meat very rare treat
chocolate once a week
1 bag of  a week
2 puddings at the weekend not in the week

Can you please tell me that with this lifestyle I am increasing my chances of heart disease by eating uncut freshly baked wholemeal bread 2/3 slices a day?

You can take all the steps you want but we are all on the wheel of fortune, of course we can try and give ourselves the best protection but the conflicting advice out there on the internet these days can be misleading and even dangerous imo. Many cancers have a higher genetic factor than you are giving them credit for and certainly heart disease also has a strong genetic factor that can predispose someone.

From all i've read the level and increase of diabetes is stupendous and something that in many cases can either be prevented or kept in check with a healthy lifestyle and diet.

I'm certainly not disputing that diet and heart disease/ cancer are linked

But this thread is the only time i have heard of a link between wheat and heart disease. (especially bread as wheat can incorporate all sorts of cakes/biscuits, sweets and many hidden foods you wouldn't even think of which i would associate with a more unhealthy intake.

Striding egde, read 'wheat belly' by Dr Davies or 'Grain brain' by Dr Perlmbutter

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wheat-Belly-effortless-weight-loss-solution/dp/0008118922/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1467626742&sr=8-1&keywords=wheat+belly+lose+the+wheat

For the analysis of wheat by Denise Minger on China study data read the following, even if you are not a stat junkie bare with it and you will get the message

https://rawfoodsos.com/2010/09/02/the-china-study-wheat-and-heart-disease-oh-my/

Or if you cant be bothered here is her conclusion after analysis taking in to consideration numerous other possible conflicting variables like lower fish consumption in some regions

"Anyway, here’s the important point. No matter what variables I adjust for, I can’t make the correlation between wheat flour and heart disease go away. Sorry, wheat! Neener neener."

Now here is the real kicker, who sponsors the UK heart charity ...... Warburtons !!

I have no problem analysing stats, my degree was heavily based on statistics. I will take the time to read these links but beforehand i must say i am sceptical with these studies as hundreds will give conflicting results based on a number of lifestyle and health choices, what's perceived as healthy one week is disputed the next and vice versa.

Wheat can be ingested in a number of forms too. It is a big part of a western diet and goes far beyond a daily fix of bread, as i said a lot of wheat products will be considered unhealthy because of the potentially unhealthy sugars and fats and preservatives accompanying them.

My general rule is that moderation is often fine, you seem to thin any wheat has a good chance of shortening your life.  I have eaten  bread most days of my life (35 this birthday), the last 2 check ups have had a very healthy BP (was actually told it was that of an athlete last time).It seems extremely unlikely that wheat is secretly causing my health some distress in the background and is ready to cause me such complications as you are inferring.

Are all the Gp's in on this conspiracy of yours too? if you went to a 100 today, most would think you are talking nonsense or at least or at least are basing your opinion on a very narrow window of all the data that is out there on this topic.

Anyway when i get the chance i will read this study and get back to you.

bread was created to sustain great armys , it invariably slows down the digestive system especialy white bread , so toxins stay longer in the body , think the op has a point as their have been direct links to the disease from pesticides
when we start tampering with nature , look at the affects of gm crops on bee's natures pollin chariot
i think human greed stops science /engineering 
they cant seam to find a cure for the common cold  funny that pharmaceutical companies like beachums make billions on remedies, like the people who invented engines that run on water or other cheap fuels the patent is bought out , as far too much money at stake , but slows the future of man kind , they most likely have a cure , funny how none of the royal  family had it   i used to give a fair bit , until i worked at the head office , seen the amount of company cars over half a million , why do they need such exuberant cars i asked , one of the staff , they said we are not allowed to comment or we loose our job , each of them is allocated an annual budget and they go to the garage say i need to spend 1200 , more so they put new Alloy wheels on etc , rather get their year budget reduced , people have gave over money for good causes in good faith but the administration and greed of the hierarchy that run these places beggars belief ,too many phat cats skimming the top   i used to date a girl from napol she said green tea and eat chilies daily,too cleanse you body , my gran/ grandad , used to eat porridge every day , americans have links porridge oats to reducing toxins in the body , they also had a small glass of boiled water every day 1st thing in the morning , she used to say you will never have bad breath or stomach problems as it clears your body , both my gran and grandad lived to ripe old ages not once did they attent a hospital

haven't you heard mart hot drinks are linked to cancer of the esophagus in a recent study. They damage the lining and can lead to cell mutation.

Porridge oats have been linked in many studies to lowering cholesterol and generally beneficial to the heart, elsewhere all grains are seen as evil and a cause of various bowel problems even cancers.

If you tried to keep up with all of these studies you would be pacing around in a padded cell or become highly neurotic probably causing your system far more stress than you are trying to prevent in the first place.

My body tells me when i'm treating it right, at Christmas my normal diet goes out the window and i often feel sluggish,irritable and desperate to get back into the normal routine.

If only a very small percentage of people on the planet investigating dietary effects on health are linking my intake with bread to an increased risk of heart disease, it's not something that's going to concern me to the point of changing.

striding     https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=scott%27s+porage+oats&espv=2&biw=1024&bih=...

just got a health mag super foods black pudding is one

yes agree striding , perhaps a colonic irrigation , wd do the trick
rem they say traces of red meat can stay in your intestines for years

certain cultures have ramdan to cleanse the body , grapes and water

Red-Meat Eaters Risk Colon Cancer


Red-Meat Eaters Risk Colon Cancer
By Daniel J. DeNoon on January 11, 2005
WebMD News Archive
Eating 3 Ounces of Red Meat Per Day May Beef Up Cancer Risk

Jan. 11, 2005 -- Bad news for beef eaters: Red meat really does increase your risk of colon cancer.

It's not exactly news. Many studies suggest that people who eat the most meat get the most cancer. Now a huge, 20-year study from the American Cancer Society confirms these findings. The bottom line: Those who eat the most red meat -- beef and/or pork and/or processed meat products -- get colon cancer 30% to 40% more often than those who eat these foods only once in a while.

The news is particularly bad for those who favor lots of lunchmeats, hot dogs, and sausages. Eating lots of these processed foods raises colon cancer risk by 50%, reports Marjorie L. McCullough, ScD, senior epidemiologist at the American Cancer Society in Atlanta. McCullough and colleagues report the findings in the Jan. 12 issue of The Journal of the American Medical Association.

"The bottom line is that the people who were eating the most red meat had higher colon cancer risk than those eating the least," McCullough tells WebMD. "Very few of these lower-risk people ate no red meat. It is not that we are saying people can never have red meat. But this shows it is important to limit the amount of red meat you eat."

The researchers collected detailed information on the diets of nearly 150,000 men and women aged 50 to 74 living in 21 U.S. states. They collected data in 1982 and 1992-1993, and followed them through the end of August 2001. In that time, 1,667 of the study participants developed colon cancer.

The study accounted for factors that are known to increase colon cancer risk, such as smoking, being overweight, little physical activity, alcohol use, age, and low fiber intake as well as factors known to decrease risk, such as daily aspirin use.

OliasOfSunhillow
OliasOfSunhillow 04 Jul 16 10:19 Joined: 05 Apr 12 | Topic/replies: 1,728 | Blogger: OliasOfSunhillow's blog
Quality of sleep is vital, everyone should read Lights Out an informative book on how to improve sleep


am a terrible sleeper used to sleep like a baby but not now .cheers for the heads up will look tar

I agree the conflicting advice can be very confusing, and everyone is different (genetically, lifestyle, environment) so it is important to look at the individual and take a personalised approach. The study Olias mentioned was the China Study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1059627/ a large observational study which did suggest a correlation between wheat flour intake and heart disease and also animal fats with cancer and is often cited by people to support a vegetarian/vegan lifestyle. However, because it is an observational study it has been heavily criticised.

A better designed randomised controlled study (DART) showed that advising people recovering from a heart attack to eat at least six slices of wholemeal bread per day resulted in a statistically significant (35%) increase of CHD compared to people not receiving this advice. Whenever, you look at such studies, however, you do need a sceptical eye and ask what is the motivation and who is funding it.

In terms of heart disease, along with nearly all the other chronic diseases, the underlying molecular cause is inflammatory processes that put your body's defensive mechanisms under strain until it reaches a point where it can no longer stop the fatty plaques clogging up the arteries and eventually  one dislodges to cause a heart attack.

Yes, some people will have a genetic predisposition to speed up this inflammatory process and therefore be more prone to heart disease at a younger age, but it is important to realise we are not helpless, genetic determinism - the debate of nature v's nurture the genes v's the environment is one we as individuals can influence.

If I had a strong family history of heart disease, I would certainly look at an anti-inflammatory diet - high in omega 3 fatty acids and low in refined carbs

Stridingedge, I do not recall saying Wheat was bad for you - unless you happen to have coeliac disease. You are right to listen to your body and make your own decisions about what is best for your health.

It was Olias who said that wheat contributes to heart disease and yet there are just as many studies/reports to contradict that - go take a look its out there waiting to be read but as always there are two sides to peoples views and thats all they are as no-one for sure has the definitive answers

Times reports today that the excellent results shown in the USA by applying the Bredesen protocol to alzheimers patients will be tested on around 200 patients here in the UK. Its a dietary lifestyle multi factorial approach and has wiped the floor with drug based approaches. One ingredient is low cereal consumption.

Yes, Smirnoff, always two sides to every story, people do need to make up their own minds, equally they need to be open-minded and explore different possibilities before deciding what is best for them

Here is a link to that study Olias http://www.aging-us.com/article/NjJf3fWGKw4e99CyC/text#fulltext - and also with diabetes - the work at university of Newcastle successfully reversing diabetes http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal.htm and also the work of Dr Fung with therapeutic/intermittent fasting https://youtu.be/tIuj-oMN-Fk

I eat a lot of oily fish, mackerel,tuna and sardines in particular. After reading how this was linked to positive affects on the health of the heart i was quite pleased with myself as i just happened to like these fish in my diet rather than eating them because of these links.The next thing i read that these fish may be loaded with mercury which the body cannot get rid of, over time may actually be causing harm.

I Often don't know what to believe!

Diabetes (type 2) is a travesty how it's been allowed to progress, especially in children. I don't think there is much disagreement about how simple lifestyle changes(diet and exercise) can either prevent it in the first instance or keep it in check/reverse it's affects once diagnosed.

In that case choose wild salmon such as sockeye salmon

All cancer charities are equal but some are more equal than others.

http://www.breastcancerfund.org/

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2016/03/30/the-cancer-industry-exposed-in-less-than-2000-words/

You're not the only one striding! It can leave you wondering what's the point. I think the highest levels were found in tuna because it is higher up the food chain. I would still eat oily fish especially if you like it - though like Olias I tend to avoid farmed fish because the omega 3 quantity is low,  as they are mainly fed on a corn-based food. Flaxseed/linseed walnuts are an alternative source of omega 3

Striding - Diabetes is associated with a higher risk of certain cancers, therefore by following lifestyle changes to prevent diabetes you are also reducing your risk of cancer.

Yes that link makes perfect sense.

A better diet and more exercise would eliminate much of the type 2 diabetes which has become prolific in last 2 decades and is set to worsen still. This is one thing I am pretty sure i have a great chance of avoiding with my lifestyle.

The question is - how do we get that message across?

I think plenty more can be done with type 2 diabetes. Some harder hitting facts about it and the difficulties it can pose to health, like the warnings given for smoking. It thoroughly depresses me seeing kids weight spiralling out of control with their fat parents apparently oblivious to the implications of this.

I know this may sound harsh but the message on this illness just hasn't been strong enough imo.

One of my friends uncles foot completely disintegrated when he took his boots off one day. He had type 2 diabetes for years and managed it very poorly, drinking and smoking.He failed to take notice of the poor state of his feet and this was the horrific result.

These sorts of complications from something which in many cases can be prevented need to be thrust more in peoples faces.

Anyway off to focus on some racing, thanks for your comments DrRob.

There certainly needs to be more health education in schools but you need to start young - preferably before 7, when many of our beliefs and habits have already been conditioned. Advertisers specifically  target children for the fast/junk food and research shows this type of food targets the same area in the brain associated with addictions

Be lucky!

Be informed

i think men over 50 should be tested for prostate every 2 years
men never get checked enough until its too far gone

Yes Olias, you make your own luck in this game - by studying form

yes dr rob better being lucky than good hey !
just seen a cracker just what the dr ordered

Taken from Denise Mingers report

"Most likely, these Western ailments aren’t spawned from a single food or activity, but from a tragic mix of diet choices, lifestyle habits, and environmental factors. For problems like breast cancer and colon cancer and lung cancer, it’s pretty easy to see what the matrix of risk-raisers are from looking at the data: It’s the same combination of things spurring disease in Western nations.

But oddly enough, this isn’t the case for heart conditions. The factors shared by other Western illnesses are not, in most cases, associated with heart disease in this data set. If you’ve read some of the earlier China Study posts, you might remember that I took issue with Campbell’s disease-clustering strategy because heart disease doesn’t fit cleanly with the “diseases of affluence” group, despite his insistence on sticking it there anyway. Unlike the other Western problems, heart disease isn’t associated with eating more sugar, working in industry, drinking more alcohol, using vegetable oils, having higher apo-B levels, or any of the other variables uniting the Western diseases and mirroring the traits common to industrialized countries.

What’s the only thing heart-disease-prone regions have in common with Westernized nations? That’s right: consumption of high amounts of wheat flour."

I do not study form Dr but I do study data

tin soup is really bad for you , cant beat homemade ,

messaged u dr and olias

Are you a ratings/speed fig man then Olias?

Not so sure about the psa test bigmart

striding pm

I do compile my own ratings for handicap flat races but they are not ability ratings. I am also interested in the application of machine learning methods to horse betting

dr m8 just found out he has it , the leading specialist told him its about cost , he stated very curable if caught early doors , life sucks my m8 just retired 3 months ago ,

Never heard of machine learning methods Olias

Back again, not too enthused with the Ayr card.

These links are so complex though Olias

if high sugar intake leads to obesity there is a clear and undisputed link with heart disease, smoking is a risk factor with a clear link to  heart disease and has been shown to be highly correlated the greater the consumption as has alcohol.

I'm sorry but any study that's trying to suggest this isn't the case loses any credibility with me, i just cannot have the dismissal of these factors, this would cause me great concerns as to the integrity of this study.

Again with wheat, you have to look at how it's ingested and the huge interdependent relationships, shich i'm pretty sure no study at present could achieve with it's complexities.

Me and my 2/3 slices of wholemeal bread can't be compared to someone getting their wheat from cakes,pies,biscuits etc. The latter case is highly likely to lead to weight gain which would in itself greatly raise the risk of heart disease.Even without the weight gain, these foods should not be compared nutritionally.

i find speed ratings work even better on soft or heavy ground ,
very few horses can sluice through it and preduce a good speed rating
in h/c races top weights tend too struggle , as its they get stuck in the mud
bit like you racing a m9 with a haversack u might beat him on goo ground but like horses struggle to give lead away on soft or heavy conditions , purests might argue that they are h/cap to dead heat with a weight turn around never as simple , h.capping does not work the same on heavy
u cd have 2 sel dead heating one has 8.4  and the other has 9.4
they race same c/d but softer ground , they both handle said conditions , but u can bet your bott dollar the if horse a had 8.10 and horse b had 9.10 both running of the same marks horse A WD COME OUT ON TOP 9 TIMES OUT OF 10 , WEIGHT AFFECTS A HORSE FAR MORE WHEN THE MUD IS FLYING FACT

Yes you have Dr everytime you use google or shop online you are engaging with one. When you read form you may, for example, check out whether a horse is a course winner or perhaps a distance winner. Machine learning attempts to not only decide how much these factors are worth but what is the overall worth when combined with many other factors. Bit like figuring out the significance of wheat when you have to worry about a myriad of other factors as well.

Thanks. Have they been able to take into account corrupt jockey's and trainers yet? Do you write the programme yourself - or is it something you can subscribe to?

By the way one hypothsis as to why wheat contributes to heart disease is that wheat promotes the development of small dense LDL particles which due to their size or more easily lodged in the endothelial (wall of the artery) this then oxidises and we have the cascading inflamatory response that the Dr referred to. I personally lean more towards sugar and insulin spikes causing endothelial lesions that the need patching up with cholesterol and other junk which eventually grows and bursts causing a heart attack.

I am an ex University lecturer in Computer Science so my background allows me to explore automated analysis and bet execution.

Dr I have just been sent this link by a functional doctor friend of mine, thought it might interest you

https://www.cytoplan.co.uk/blog/education/events-seminars/why-nutrition-is-the-key-to-alzheimers/

Olias and DrRob

I have CHD and had a double bypass 8 weeks ago. I suffered an inferior MI eleven years ago (propped up with a stent).

Around six months ago I started to get minor angina attacks on exercise and following an angiogram it was felt that surgery would be safer than more stents.

Whilst awaiting the procedure I spoke to a patient who was around the same age as me and he asked if I had heard of the plant food diet by Dr Esselstyn (I had to look that up as I couldn't remember his name just the plant food bit). I haven't researched his work before but in the last 20 minutes it would appear that Dr E places the cause of CHD solely on diet.

He is suggesting that the correct diet can not only stop CHD but reverse it.

Olias, he doesn't exclude bread from his list of foods. My apologies if this subject has been covered in this thread.

A couple of other points I was "told" during my stay in hospital/ pre-visits (by the consultants not other patients!):-

Alcohol is not a cause of CHD (I almost left the room then leaping in the air). It does contribute significantly to the major causes though;
Diabetes is a major contributor to CHD;
As is smoking;
As is obesity;
With family history as seemingly the most "likely" reason if the other tests fail.

I would add that following my heart attack eleven years ago, my blood pressure and cholesterol (which were both high) have been well looked after by medication. However, medication does not stop or reverse CHD.

Over 50% of people who suffer a heart attack have 'normal cholesterol levels'. I suggest you read the The great Cholesterol Con by Dr Malcolm Kendrick who I believe heralds from our good doctors neck of the woods

Both would involve an inflammatory response from the body. I think the key is to manage this response or oxidative stress - like any stress - if it becomes chronic - it can wear out the body's repair and protective mechanisms, right down to the genetic level.

So, yes everything in moderation so you don't overload the system too much, which is why highly refined carbs aren't great as they produce bigger spikes in insulin. Fine once in a while, but, too much for too long could cause problems. How much is too much would vary greatly between individuals depending upon their genetic makeup and lifestyle.

This is why intermittent fasting can be a good tactic to use on occasions, because it gives your body a break and allows the cells that produce insulin time to have a rest. And just like In weight-training  it is the rest time that allows the growth to occur

Yes Olias I think the profession is finally waking upto to the Cholesterol/bad  low fat/good story, perpetuated by the drug companies and food manufacturers.

Glad you are Recovering well 8wks post op Sawyer, there are many different diets you can look at to help with the heart - another to consider is Dr Sears - zone diet. Alcohol, again in moderation, for those over 40, can have beneficial effects on the heart.

I would still keep taking the tablets though!

Thanks for the link Olias - what is your connection to functional medicine ? It's quite an American term.

I read a lot on nutrition and it just kind of worked its way into my view.

Unfortunately, not much is taught on nutrition in medical school, nor on preventative medicine per se - some would say cynically, because there's no money in it.

the.mad.dog.man    02 Jul 16 18:45 
i also got rheumatoid arthritis take 5 tablets every monday helps a lot

Please can you name the medication you take ,as a friend has the same condition but has no
relief, many thanks.

I would imagine it's methotrexate tutan - a common drug used for rheumatoid arthritis taken once a week - prescription only.

Thanks Rob.

BIGMART.
Over the years my PSA went from 5.0 to 9.8 as my prostate grew from 35grms to 75.I had two negative biopsies. I refused TURP and waited for GL PVP to cross the Atlantic. Now my PSA is 0.74.

the.mad.dog.man   
I met a Guy at Brighton races a couple of years ago who had suffered with bad rheumatoid arthritis. His consultant asked him if he was interested in joining a trial on a new treatment. He agreed and went for an infusion of a new drug and was having a series of them, Not only was it helping him but they paid him for each session he attended.

What do healthy people have for breakfast??

'these studies never identify a single factor properly Olias and if you believed every food related scare in the last 20 years you would eat dust only'.

Dust as part of a balanced diet can promote a long and healthy life.

Dust Marketing Board.

The forum has really gone downhill lately
Are there any good posters left

Olias,

The reason I found this thread terrible was bc your opening posts didn't sound very balanced to me.

I respect your call for better lifestyle and better diet. I believe in those things too.
Problem is there may well be many varying ways of doing much the same thing, ie, trying to get fit and healthy.
Trying to be too categorical when there's over 200 different cancers is not helpful.

We only have to look around our globe to see the differing ways folk do much the same things in order to stay alive.
And, at the end of the day, we all have to die, imo.
  I faced up to this, and decided to do my own thing. So far, so good, but I won't last forever; neither do I want to. What would be the point?

We have to respect Nature ( whatever that is).

I thought I had a good diet, but after I got injured and later got sick, I changed so many things, sometimes several times over.

The main thing I found is to get the weight off. That's key.
Do it any way that suits is my advice.

Sure, I'm against all bread inc so-called wholemeal, but that's bc, when Cassius Clay was going, I heard him say he doesn't eat a lot of bread.
It was decades later that I got the cancer.

Also, I'm a believer in oats - eating them and getting them.

However, when recently checking out Spike Island ( prison in Ireland) I found that the prisoners mostly died of mal-nutrition despite each having 2 pounds of porage daily in their rations!
This is a fantastic amount, at a time when we had the Big Hunger ( famine) in Ireland.

Many of those who died of the hunger had green stuff coming out of their mouths as they died trying to eat grass. Grass is great but it didn't work for them. Neither were they overweight. The prisoners on the porage did little better.

We need to get a sense of proportion.
There is too much puritannical, judgmental, preaching about diet and sickness imo. I used to be guilty of this. Cancer humbled me.

The best general advice I had, came from an old woman who hated doctors: she told me " try to live your life as normally as possible".
I do, and I will, as long as I can, which won't be forever.

Btw, aren't ye one of those "smartsig" guys?

Good luck, anyway.

My own favourite oddball diet fads include beetroot juice, sauerkraut, and honey.
I also drink goatsmilk AND full-cream Jersey, and eat eggs and bananas with viagra!

How about that?
"They" persuaded me to go on statins, chatting about cholesterol and BP. I got sick after four tablets and they stopped them; took months to get back to square one.
We need a certain amount of cholesterol to make testosterone.
A good jump would sort out many illnesses.
This, despite them saying that other things - including my binge drinking - were more likely to kill me than the cancer.

I'm lucky. I used to have more pain in my daily work than I get nowadays. When I got injured and couldn't work or exercise properly, my pains vanished.

I'm old, anyway. I'll just keep on trucking till I drop.
The worst thing to die of is boredom, imo.

Live dangerously and die, I say!

You missed out smoking, other pollution, alcohol, the sun and a 100 other things.

Yes we all have to die, you just dont want it to be your fault

Sean, I agree the most important thing is to enjoy life and be happy, have a purpose and a reason to get out of bed in the morning. Having a cancer diagnosis does make you reassess life and question your own values and beliefs and appreciate what you have. There is far too much unhappiness in the world, with people stressed and fearful about all aspects of life - including brexit!

Oldgit- Green light vaporisation of the prostate is a good choice for an enlarged prostate, don't think it is used for prostate cancer yet.
Trials of new drugs do come with a health warning, which is why there is often a financial incentive.

Olias, I don't think it is the fault of the individual, more to do with govts, media, business and medical profession, perpetuating a profit generating illness model

Olias, I don't think it is the fault of the individual, more to do with govts, media, business and medical profession, perpetuating a profit generating illness model

Olias maybe correct on some points and I am not doubting some of them, but I agree with sean rua.

You can point people to all these studies but they are suiting your own points/agenda, I expect you can find exactly the opposite opinions online when you go searching.

I used to work in food ingredients industry, and Aspartame (artificial sweetener) had loads of bad press and linked to cancer, just look on google. But you will probably find just as many good articles saying it is safe. It probably is one of the most scientifically tested ingredients about. But I wouldn't be telling people it's perfect and only point them to the 'good' studies - as in my opinion it is a very dangerous game to play.

Confusion is the nature of the gae, that is how they keep you entrapped. Its really quite simple, nature isn't out to get you

Well, Olias,

there ye go again: attaching "fault" and probably "blame" to illness.

That's a bit too puritannical for me.

I'm all for helping folk, but, at the end of the day, people tend to go their own way and there's always somebody who will point the finger and criticise.

Point is, life is not a laboratory-controlled experiment. It is the real thing, with all sorts of imponderables.
Yes, I believe in cause and effect, but 'tis almost impossible to determine many pre-existing conditions and circumstances, imo.

Btw, when I was young I used to be a bit like ye: I thought I knew it all and I was invincible; others failed bc they were weak etc.

When adversity did come ( which it usually does), the main thing I did wrong was trusting others who told me they knew what they were doing.
They were PHDs with white coats and overalls; they told me conditions were safe; they weren't.

Other "experts" later took their side against me. 'Tis hard for the small man to take on big global companies. They can "buy" people.

Good luck to all!

Doctor Rob,

yes, here are some essential postives:

PMA ( positive mental attitude)

Purpose ( imagined and/r actual)

A Loving Relationship ( at least one)


  Without these basics, illness and depression can set in.

These things are easy to say, but hard to put into practice, in my experience.

Basically, 'tis up to each of us to try make the best of things, and,
like the gambler in the old song, " the best we can hope for is to die in our sleep."

All the best!

Actually I agree with Rob, the fault lies with the medical profession and the food industry who with their powers of persuasion are able to confuse the public. The nuances of what is and what is not healthy can be confusing but if a person wants a general guideline then eat only what nature created. If man created it then leave well alone. So veggies, fruit, perhaps even grass fed meats. However when man interferes as we have with wheat, battery farmed cattle and poultry, processed foods and so on then disease results. As I say to friends when they ask 'is it not difficult', I have given up one set of delicious food that causes disease for another set of delicious food that promotes health.

That's more like it, Olias, imo!

However, may I point out that mankind always interferes with nature: that's how we survive.
This was true even when we were hunter/gatherers.

Very few of us would tolerate that lifestyle nowadays. The global population would reduce drastically, especially in the so-called developed states.
Agriculture, which feeds most of us, is a total "interference". It doesn't have to be harmful, any more than does gardening.
I myself make silly distinctions: I favour "organic" food, full-cream unpasteurised milk ( illegal for humans in UK) and no longer bother washing everything before eating.
This policy alone would kill many folk. That is why generalisation is dangerous, imo.

Anyway, to save my searching all over again, could ye please state exactly why wheat is the big baddie?
I know some folk are against ALL grains, but I note that several single out wheat.

I'd be interested in the reasons, please. I expect ye did cover it somewwhere earlier in the thread.

Personally, I eat and believe in wee tabix. I got this idea from a top greyhound trainer; she also followed the diet she used for her racers ( which were regularly champions). I try to do similar.

For sean.

A wheat allergy should not be confused with “gluten intolerance” or celiac disease. A food allergy is an overreaction of the immune system to a specific food protein. When the food protein is ingested, in can trigger an allergic reaction that may include a range of symptoms from mild symptoms (rashes, hives, itching, swelling, etc.) to severe symptoms (trouble breathing, wheezing, loss of consciousness, etc.). A food allergy can be potentially fatal.

Celiac disease (also known as celiac sprue), which affects the small intestine, is caused by an abnormal immune reaction to gluten. Usually diagnosed by a gastroenterologist, it is a digestive disease that can cause serious complications, including malnutrition and intestinal damage, if left untreated. Individuals with celiac disease must avoid gluten, found in wheat, rye, barley and sometimes oats. Learn more about celiac disease>


A food intolerance is something else, This is the idea that some people have a leaky gut that allows undigested food particles to enter the bloodstream.
This causes their immune system to kick in and cause headaches and flue like symptoms sometimes with cronic fatigue.

There you are sean - you know more about it than your GP does now.

Read 'Wheat Belly' by Dr Davies or 'Grain Brain' by Dr Perlmbutter

OK, Olias.

--

Cheers, doc C.

I'm not convinced that there is a link between cancer and any allergy or intolerance, but thanks anyway.
I know gluten avoiders cannot have any grain.

This wonderful knowledge came when a cricket team from Cheshire ordered breakfast in a Wetherspoon's. One of them wanted gluten-free. He explained that he couldn't have any grains whatsoever. Same reaction would apertain.

I still haven't quite got why wheat is the big baddie, but, when I get time I'll check it out yet again.
In the meantime, I'll keep on with the weetabix.

The only thing the hospitals ( I have to go to two, for some reason) have said about diet is to cut down on milk when taking the medication they gave. They reckoned that its action blocked the effectiveness of the stuff they gave me. So I have to wait 20 minutes from taking the ulcer tablet till I can take milk, and then, another hour before I take the cancer stuff ( which actually is just to help certain tubes clear and doesn't cure anything).

Nowadays my own regime is not as strict as it was; despite the specialist saying the only way was the knife, I'm now "normal" as regards former swellings and for blood tests.

However, things can change at any time; once it spreads, I'm fkd.
His way, I'd be a zombie with a bag and a zimmer frame.

I prefer my way.

Any children at home, don't follow my way; do what ye are told.
Luck doesn't last forever.

All hospitals sell coca cola and high sugar snacks via vending machines in their foyers indeed some actually have Macdonalds on site. Personally I would not look to hospitals for guidance on nutrition.

Sean, that would certainly be the way to go - preferably with a smile on your face after enjoying the game of life, with all its ups and downs.

I tend to follow a similar diet to Olias, mainly because I have a family history of diabetes and coeliac, though I accept everyone has to find out what 'works' best for them, in keeping with their own belief system and genetics.

I don't think unpasteurised milk is illegal - you can still get it from 6 dairies in England and yes it does taste good.

Coeliac, is associated with an increase risk of small bowel cancer and Hodgkins and Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma - so this particular allergy is linked to cancer.

Olias is right, we are all to some/large degree under the spell of experts and mass media and it is upto the individual to look for different possibilities.

I understand in America some schools even have fast food chains cooking the meals and I always found it sadly ironic that in this country we had schools encouraging parents to buy walker's crisps, so they could collect school vouchers to buy books and exercise equipment.

lets keep this gangsta - so what will i have for breakfast(bearing in mind wot ive been told)weetabix et all shud be avoided at alll costs and heres  the deal - so i cant eat wheat so lets go meat -oh no we cant hav one of them so eats lotsa grapes that every person knows has the largest amount of sugar out there -except we are about what we have seen
.hotels.com
every apple has 10%.....

other issues for later but.......


they are taking the piss mate

@bl

#t4

#t4

thankfully i can have an apple -  oh hang on despite all those words of the experts thats not quite true - take  a look  at apples and the dentist

#will stickwivabaconsandwich

the truth is to scare

That's how it works Smirnoff, they scare and confuse you, so you feel helpless and under their spell - like in the "wizard of Oz" if you believe you are powerless you just sit back and do what they say without questioning or looking for alternatives. However, once the Wizards illusions are lifted you realise you have more power(s) than you thought.

As for breakfast - eat what you enjoy, what makes you happy and what you believe is healthy for you.

Dr Rob,

fair points, but, few are as unconventional as myself, imo.

What we usually find is,
that those who follow the current fad of trying to dumb down and be ordinary ( in an attempt to appeal to us in the working class) and preach "anti-expert" stuff,
often come up with their own specialist sh it that they've plucked from google and the 'net.

More often than not, this stuff comes from old Asia via the USA, and is peddled by "experts" in their own right.
At least, that's what they claim to be.
And, surprise surprise! Some of them actually are running businesses and looking for money!

Look, get this: ten doctors, ten theories; ten engineers, ten theories.
But, if we are ever to believe in and use EDUCATION  ( ie learning what's good and useful to humanity) we have to have some fkn experts.

I want  a wall built, I get a  brick-layer not a fkn hairdresser.

Education wasn't my strong point, compared to the "sharp-brains" on here, but even I know and recognise the value of such things as Research and Development and laboratory study.

FFS! we even send off blood from trotting horses ( the old cart racing) to get analysed in labs, and we accept the value of the pointers shown by the results.

Nobody on this planet could be more delighted at being able to stick one up the authorities and the boffins than I am, but, let's be realistic,
we need folk who study and specialise.

Will all these fkn experts ever agree? Hardly, but what we do is muddle on with the various compromises.

'Tis all a matter of personal choice.

This is the difficult bit. What do we believe?
That question alone could take a lifetime of debate and still not be settled, so,
in my case, old and fkd, I just make my own bets, and live or die by them.

Sure we live in a bad system, capitalism, but
I see no value in slagging off all doctors, all food suppliers, all charities etc.

We don't have to do what they say. If we're brave enough, we can defy them to a certain extent. Where that leads, nobody knows for sure. Life is too short to waste too much time worrying.

Finally, all I will say about cancer charities is this: we never hear much about the royal family dying of cancer; one theory is that there is already a pretty good cure, BUT,  for folks to continue raising a lot of money, "they" ( the authorities and the charity organisers) ain't never going to tell us all this fact, or ,what's really good for us.

Conspiracy theory? Sure, but who knows; it might even be true.
Well have to ask the fkn experts.

The modern world of every thing ready in a packet just heat and eat.
Simple stuff like cauliflower cheese and mashed potatoes.
Sell like mad when you can just do it yourself.

The same as growing a few foodstuffs at home.
The difference in taste is very noticeable.