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10 Mar 16
20:33
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Date Joined:
29 Jun 05
... what a morally bankrupt nation we've become ! 
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Send the tax revenues to the NHS and it will be money well spent.
they get a bad press and rightly so but i would love to see the figures from on line casinos, bingo etc. pretty sure they would be a big eye opener
Mar 10, 2016 -- 10:58PM, saddo wrote:
56 million terminals?
Going by the media reports on high street bookmakers and their proliferation, 14 million bookies shops seems about right.
Send the tax revenues to the NHS and it will be money well spent.
I'll agree with part of that - it will be money spent.
I'll agree with part of that - it will be money spent.
I'm anti FOBTs but the £562m figure is for the total duty on machine games and not just FOBTs.
It's also very short-sighted for any government to look at that figure alone anyway and not offset against it the costs to it (as in us, the taxpayer) in other areas related to those machines too.
It's also very short-sighted for any government to look at that figure alone anyway and not offset against it the costs to it (as in us, the taxpayer) in other areas related to those machines too.
years a go i could get a bus in town (3 miles) for 2p about the year 1979 at the time beer was 25p a pint
now the same journey now is £2.70 and a pint is £2.80
now the same journey now is £2.70 and a pint is £2.80
For me the government are colluding with High Street bookmakers to ''tax'' the lower class's in our society...
not withstanding there is a percentage of ''well off '' roulette players' who've done their cobblers on these machines !
THEY SHOULD BE IN LICENSED CASINOS !
I MOVE !
not withstanding there is a percentage of ''well off '' roulette players' who've done their cobblers on these machines !
THEY SHOULD BE IN LICENSED CASINOS !
I MOVE !
Btw, 8,500 LBO's ( max four m/C's per shop) top whack 34,000 FOBT's !
Each one of Ladcrooks m/c's makes £1,000 per week !
@Halcyon - just had a gander at Lads Annual Report and I make you more or less right; and that's over half their retail revenue - didn't realise they were so dependent on them. With average shop profit (after costs) of less than £1k per week, they'd be completely sunk if the law tightened.
halcyon days 11 Mar 16 09:04
For me the government are colluding with High Street bookmakers to ''tax'' the lower class's in our society...
The Tories did that years ago when the brought in the Lottery.
For me the government are colluding with High Street bookmakers to ''tax'' the lower class's in our society...
The Tories did that years ago when the brought in the Lottery.
Of course the BHA in their wisdom opposed the legislation that permitted casino type games on the High Street to these sorts of stakes because they foresaw the harm their introduction would do to racing.
Well done BHA. Oh, hold on.....you say they supported them? Surely not?
Well done BHA. Oh, hold on.....you say they supported them? Surely not?
halcyon days 11 Mar 16 09:04
For me the government are colluding with High Street bookmakers to ''tax'' the lower class's in our society...
not withstanding there is a percentage of ''well off '' roulette players' who've done their cobblers on these machines !
THEY SHOULD BE IN LICENSED CASINOS !
I MOVE !
Before the bookmakers installed these gaming machines working men's clubs in the north were kept going by revenue from machines. This revenue helped finance their pensioner and children's trips as well as a pantomine at christmas for the kids. In the past 10 years many have now been forced to close and this has been completely overlooked.
For me the government are colluding with High Street bookmakers to ''tax'' the lower class's in our society...
not withstanding there is a percentage of ''well off '' roulette players' who've done their cobblers on these machines !
THEY SHOULD BE IN LICENSED CASINOS !
I MOVE !
Before the bookmakers installed these gaming machines working men's clubs in the north were kept going by revenue from machines. This revenue helped finance their pensioner and children's trips as well as a pantomine at christmas for the kids. In the past 10 years many have now been forced to close and this has been completely overlooked.
Horse and Greyhound racing should have been paid a levy on these machines. They trade on the back of Horse and Greyhound racing costing jobs and resulting in lower prize money and owners leaving our sports.
sparrow, good evening .
Yes, I agree, but surely these were ''one armed bandits'' with a jackpot of £200 perhaps ! ?....
Yes, I agree, but surely these were ''one armed bandits'' with a jackpot of £200 perhaps ! ?....
@Halcyon - just had a gander at Lads Annual Report and I make you more or less right; and that's over half their retail revenue - didn't realise they were so dependent on them. With average shop profit (after costs) of less than £1k per week, they'd be completely sunk if the law tightened.
Heaven forbid they had to go back to bookmaking and laying bets to people. I wonder if it is part of a deliberate strategy to gradually wean people off racing so that eventually the bookies no longer have to contribute to the sport and they just contribute on milking people consistently without any risk at all.
Heaven forbid they had to go back to bookmaking and laying bets to people. I wonder if it is part of a deliberate strategy to gradually wean people off racing so that eventually the bookies no longer have to contribute to the sport and they just contribute on milking people consistently without any risk at all.
Funny thing is, IF the machines' had to be accessed in licensed casinos that might just be a possibility !
halcyon days 11 Mar 16 21:56
sparrow, good evening .
Yes, I agree, but surely these were ''one armed bandits'' with a jackpot of £200 perhaps ! ?...
The gaming machines were not what I would call one arm bandits but had a maximum of £200 jackpots. We had many big players as the only real competition was in casinos back then. I just wonder that if bookmakers removed their restrictions on bets would the people on these threads be bothered about these machines? But maybe the posters do have a social conscience and are deeply concerned about their fellow men.
sparrow, good evening .
Yes, I agree, but surely these were ''one armed bandits'' with a jackpot of £200 perhaps ! ?...
The gaming machines were not what I would call one arm bandits but had a maximum of £200 jackpots. We had many big players as the only real competition was in casinos back then. I just wonder that if bookmakers removed their restrictions on bets would the people on these threads be bothered about these machines? But maybe the posters do have a social conscience and are deeply concerned about their fellow men.
The fact is people go ''skint'' far far quicker !
So, in that sense yes, some of us do have a conscience !
So, in that sense yes, some of us do have a conscience !
Sparrow if 35% of Government spending is on the NHS and Welfare then surely the needs of the nation over-ride a few coach trips for the idle and feckless...
homefortea, I refer you to my comment of 10th March at 23.03 on this thread.
So that we can pay agency nurses £300 a shift and consultants £300k per year for a twenty hour working week....
Tony Blair & Gordon Brown have a lot to answer for !
HOSPITAL doctors are earning more than £2000 a day on top of their salaries by cramming in operations at weekends that attract lucrative triple-time payments.
Some consultants have been working the equivalent of a 14-hour day on Sundays in order to scoop the special premium rate.
Hospital employees working full-time on the living wage would have to work nearly seven weeks to earn £2000. Oppositions MSPs have called for reform of NHS contracts.
Under the 2004 consultants' contract, doctors do not have to perform non-emergency work at weekends, public holidays or after 8pm. However, they can choose to work outside their contracted hours by carrying out waiting list initiative (WLI) work.
The rate, paid at up to £150 an hour, is on top of a basic salary that can exceed £100,000.
Since January 2013, seven consultants at NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde (NHSGGC) were paid more than £1500 for work carried out on a single Sunday. Four doctors earned more than £2000 for the same shift. One earned more than £50,000 for Sunday shifts alone between January last year and October 2014.
At NHS Tayside, 57 consultants earned more than £1500 for work on a single Sunday. For radiologists at the same board, 12 consultants earned more than £2000 for weekend work, which could be for a Saturday, Sunday, or both. One consultant earned more than £2000 17 times for weekend shifts.
A £1500 Sunday payment is the equivalent of a 10-hour day, while £2000 is closer to 14 hours.
Doctors can opt out of the European Working Time Directive, which stops employers requiring staff to work excessively long hours.
Scottish Conservative health spokesman Jackson Carlaw said: "If we really want the NHS to be a 24/7 operation, excessive payments like this have to stop. It can hardly be in the best interests of patients for a doctor to bust a gut on a Sunday, only to be worn out the rest of the week.
"This is why we need a comprehensive plan on how to make the NHS run all week, without having to hand out bribes to those already well remunerated."
Liberal Democrat MSP Jim Hume said: "Everyone wants patients to be treated quickly. Health boards should be planning their services to avoid using these super-expensive contracts. That way they can treat more patients for the same money they appear to be spending on Sunday services."
A spokesperson for NHSGGC said: "Tackling waiting times is a significant priority for the Scottish Government, and the NHS in Scotland, and is a key delivery measure. Waiting list initiatives have been used to ensure that patients are treated within the targets and guarantees set over the past four years, latterly within 18 weeks of referral to treatment."
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At NHS Tayside, a spokesperson said: "Payments made by NHS Tayside to consultants under the waiting times initiative are agreed as part of national contracts."
Dr Nikki Thompson, chair of the British Medical Association's Scottish consultants' committee, said: "Waiting list initiative payments were negotiated to enable boards to enlist consultants to provide additional services on an occasional basis, in order to reduce waiting lists. This work is only ever undertaken at the specific request of the employer, and the enhanced pay rate reflects the ad hoc nature of the work, and the inconvenience and disruption to family life that results."
Some consultants have been working the equivalent of a 14-hour day on Sundays in order to scoop the special premium rate.
Hospital employees working full-time on the living wage would have to work nearly seven weeks to earn £2000. Oppositions MSPs have called for reform of NHS contracts.
Under the 2004 consultants' contract, doctors do not have to perform non-emergency work at weekends, public holidays or after 8pm. However, they can choose to work outside their contracted hours by carrying out waiting list initiative (WLI) work.
The rate, paid at up to £150 an hour, is on top of a basic salary that can exceed £100,000.
Since January 2013, seven consultants at NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde (NHSGGC) were paid more than £1500 for work carried out on a single Sunday. Four doctors earned more than £2000 for the same shift. One earned more than £50,000 for Sunday shifts alone between January last year and October 2014.
At NHS Tayside, 57 consultants earned more than £1500 for work on a single Sunday. For radiologists at the same board, 12 consultants earned more than £2000 for weekend work, which could be for a Saturday, Sunday, or both. One consultant earned more than £2000 17 times for weekend shifts.
A £1500 Sunday payment is the equivalent of a 10-hour day, while £2000 is closer to 14 hours.
Doctors can opt out of the European Working Time Directive, which stops employers requiring staff to work excessively long hours.
Scottish Conservative health spokesman Jackson Carlaw said: "If we really want the NHS to be a 24/7 operation, excessive payments like this have to stop. It can hardly be in the best interests of patients for a doctor to bust a gut on a Sunday, only to be worn out the rest of the week.
"This is why we need a comprehensive plan on how to make the NHS run all week, without having to hand out bribes to those already well remunerated."
Liberal Democrat MSP Jim Hume said: "Everyone wants patients to be treated quickly. Health boards should be planning their services to avoid using these super-expensive contracts. That way they can treat more patients for the same money they appear to be spending on Sunday services."
A spokesperson for NHSGGC said: "Tackling waiting times is a significant priority for the Scottish Government, and the NHS in Scotland, and is a key delivery measure. Waiting list initiatives have been used to ensure that patients are treated within the targets and guarantees set over the past four years, latterly within 18 weeks of referral to treatment."
Share article
At NHS Tayside, a spokesperson said: "Payments made by NHS Tayside to consultants under the waiting times initiative are agreed as part of national contracts."
Dr Nikki Thompson, chair of the British Medical Association's Scottish consultants' committee, said: "Waiting list initiative payments were negotiated to enable boards to enlist consultants to provide additional services on an occasional basis, in order to reduce waiting lists. This work is only ever undertaken at the specific request of the employer, and the enhanced pay rate reflects the ad hoc nature of the work, and the inconvenience and disruption to family life that results."
''This work is only ever undertaken at the specific request of the employer, and the enhanced pay rate reflects the ad hoc nature of the work, and the inconvenience and disruption to family life that results."
halcyon days 12 Mar 16 19:32 Joined: 29 Jun 05 | Topic/replies: 24,154 | Blogger: halcyon days's blog
Tony Blair & Gordon Brown have a lot to answer for !
EXACTLY...
Tony Blair & Gordon Brown have a lot to answer for !
EXACTLY...
This is now getting like a Party Political Broadcast on behalf of the Conservative Party.
Indeed so !
Came from a working class family, but over the last twenty years have seen what so called ''socialism'' has done to the country !
Of the '97 government... Straw, Blunkett, Reid, Prescott et al... millionaire politicians who purport to represent working class people... champagne socialists with their snouts in the trough !
Hypocrisy doesn't do them justice !
Came from a working class family, but over the last twenty years have seen what so called ''socialism'' has done to the country !
Of the '97 government... Straw, Blunkett, Reid, Prescott et al... millionaire politicians who purport to represent working class people... champagne socialists with their snouts in the trough !
Hypocrisy doesn't do them justice !
The only chap I've got any time for is Dave Nellist ( thrown out of the party by Kinnock for being a member of Militant Tendency ), who in the eighties gave over half of his M P's salary to charity...
' for me to represent the people of Coventry I need to understand what it's like to live on their salary's'..
took the pay of a local tool maker ! A TRUE SOCIALIST... utmost respect !
' for me to represent the people of Coventry I need to understand what it's like to live on their salary's'..
took the pay of a local tool maker ! A TRUE SOCIALIST... utmost respect !
Dave Nellist was an idiot and that's all I want to say on the subject.
sparrow, we can still be friends... the Clem Attlee government of '45/'51 was truly radical and inspirational ! 
But sparrow... he put his beliefs before the filthy lucre !
The formation of the NHS was the start of the scrounger state...
The Labour Party have killed this country as anyone without a flat screen tv a council house free school meals a mobile phone for all a monkey a week and a car is a failure..
By definition some people have to live in poverty...
Or how is success measured..
The Labour Party have killed this country as anyone without a flat screen tv a council house free school meals a mobile phone for all a monkey a week and a car is a failure..
By definition some people have to live in poverty...
Or how is success measured..
Considering the financial state of the country at the time the Attlee Government achieved a great many things.
Indeed, middle class Oxbridge men who cared about what the working class's had been through over the past 31 years ! 
Sad days for your version of the claret and blues this year.
It all comes in cycles mate... I was very fortunate to go between '64 -'85... not many football supporters can say they've seen their team win the top tier of English football plus, The European Cup !
halcyon days
halcyon days
This bunch of ''no marks'' are systematic of what's wrong with football today.....
can't relate to the people who pay their wages !
can't relate to the people who pay their wages !
I feel a little sorry for the present manager for inheriting such a mess.
It's a cruel game these days.
It's a cruel game these days.
Sorry halcyon days I'm struggling a little here to understand your logic. It seems you have a dislike for anyone in the Labour Party who has a few bob and so your way to show this dislike to to become a Tory supporter, which is run by multi-millionaires born into privilege.
Am I missing something here, because to me that sounds a little like someone who is vegetarian and anti-fox hunting who disapproves of the people who organise the demos once they find out they ear meat and so they themselves decide to join in on the hunt as a result of their disapproval.
I don't really think too many felt Blair was a genuine socialist considering which school he went to or that his Dad was previously a life long paid up member of the Tory party, who even once almost stood as an MP for them until illness ruled him out, but then later switched his allegiance to the Labour Party once his son moved his way up the ladder. Yet at the very least Blair and Brown did a few things for the working class or vulnerable and were prevented from not doing a few more to them by the very fact they were PMs under a Labour government.
Contrast that with this mob and how they are cutting everything that hits the working class or the most vulnerable and yet can do so unchecked because just about everyone else in their party supports what they are doing.
Am I missing something here, because to me that sounds a little like someone who is vegetarian and anti-fox hunting who disapproves of the people who organise the demos once they find out they ear meat and so they themselves decide to join in on the hunt as a result of their disapproval.
I don't really think too many felt Blair was a genuine socialist considering which school he went to or that his Dad was previously a life long paid up member of the Tory party, who even once almost stood as an MP for them until illness ruled him out, but then later switched his allegiance to the Labour Party once his son moved his way up the ladder. Yet at the very least Blair and Brown did a few things for the working class or vulnerable and were prevented from not doing a few more to them by the very fact they were PMs under a Labour government.
Contrast that with this mob and how they are cutting everything that hits the working class or the most vulnerable and yet can do so unchecked because just about everyone else in their party supports what they are doing.
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