Betfair Hurdle or the Schweppes?

Will always be known as the Tote Gold trophy to me, Make a stand will probably be my best winner of it and I couldn't believe after the race I got 9/1 for champion hurdle. Happy days

The good Captain won four out of the first five runnings.  Got warned off for Rosyth's second win

here you go ladycarla

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IfqMW-mrBI

schweppes

tote gold trophy here too

Schweppes

Schweppes - for those of us who have been in the game longer

Betfair Hurdle. Have to respect the sponsors.

Still think of it as The Schweppes...still feel the pain thinking of Major Thompson

Schweppes and they have had their value out of the advertising campaign.

Sshhh....

Schweppes for me and it will always be the the Whitbread at Sandown. Then there's the Mackeson and the Massey Fergusson at Cheltenham. . . . . . sorry must be getting old!

imagine stick ryan price would get on bf forum

The first Schweppes Hurdle was run at Aintree on the Thursday of the Grand National meeting. There were 41 runners. Rosyth was a 5yo, carrying 10-0, having his 5th run over hurdles. Ryan Price was something else.

Salmon Spray was also in the race, also a 5yo, and carried 10-5. He won the Champion Hurdle 3 years later.

Schweppes golden mile

Good stuff, only run at Aintree for the first year.  I dont have the data for that initial year but the following year the value to the winner was £7639 which doesn't seem a lot these days but the Champion Hurdle and the Gold Cup were only £8161 and £8004 respectively.
No wonder those big sponsored handicaps were competitive.

Schweppes 4 me.
Memories Ekbalco(top weight) scything thro the field on the bit (a bit like Rooster Booster many years later)before being run out of it by Donegal Prince and i think Johnny Francome.
That years shock Champion Hurdle winner For Auction was down the field probably receiving a stone or more from Ekbalco.

The Schweppes for me too, remember Rodeo Star getting turned over by a grey jonjo horse i think.

Value to the winner in 1963 was £7825 2s 6d (less £200 if ridden by an amateur).


(The redoubtable Spring Cabbage made his racecourse debut in the opening race on the card, the £400 Croxteth Plate for 2yos).

In 1968, there were 34 down to run. 5yo Persian War set a weight-carrying record for the winner, with 11-13. He won 3 Champion Hurdles - but he wasn't even top weight. There were 3 above him - Sempervivum on 12-2, Hill House on 12-1, and Black Justice on 12-0. Further down were Major Rose, Kirriemuir (another Champion Hurdle winner) on 11-8, Even Keel, Supermaster, Celtic Gold, 5yo Spanish Steps, Indamelia, Specify, and Sir Thopas.

Sempervivum was probably the smallest horse in the race, but finished 3rd as a 10yo under his 12-2 behind Persian War and Major Rose. As a 3yo, he'd run in the St Leger when trained in France.

Persian War
Salmon Spray
Kirremuir
For Auction
Rooster Booster
any other champiuon hurdlers run in the race?
Cant recall but no doubt Beech Road probably had a run or 2

Another Flash (1960), Magic Court (1964), and Salmon Spray (1966) all ran in the 1964 Schweppes.

Royal Derbi was a hot favourite one year and ran down the field, along with Flakey Dove.
Michael's horse ran second to Royal Gait? in The Champion and Flakey Dove won one I believe.

Anzio (1962) carried top weight of 12-7 in the first running in 1963. (Some chance with a Price horse on 10-0 !).

Large Action beat Oh So Risky and Flakey Dove at Newbury.

At Cheltenham a month later in the Champion Flakey Dove beat Oh So Risky and Large Action.

So not a bad renewal...

Also...Thumbs Up finished fourth who was travelling when being brought down in the Arkle two start later and Land Afar was fifth who was also going fine when falling two out in the Champion on his next start.

One of my faves was watching Neblin get stuffed.

Was a big fan of Toby Balding's but the way that horse was campaigned was rather naughty.

Also in the first running was 13yo Merry Deal, carrying 11-5, who'd won the Champion Hurdle in 1957.

The big money came a bit late for him I guess - though he did win more than £6000 in 1957. He was owned and trained by farmer Arthur Jones, in Oswestry.

Merry Deal was running in sellers by the following season,though I rather think he won a novice chase as well.
No silly sentimentality in those days.

Schweppes -

- and can we have the Irish Sweeps Hurdle back, too - as opposed to the Ladbroke, or Coral.ie Hurdle.

Thanks blackburn thats how to destroy a major handicap race

I dont think any of the 3 dual winners Night Nurse Sea Pigeon or Monksfield ran in the race altho i recall Night Nurse in the Irish Sweeps,Scottish Champion(with Sea Pigeon) and Royal Doulton (with Sea Pigeon and Monksfield)

I don't know if he actually ran, but reigning champion hurdler Lanzarote was down to carry top weight of 12-5 in the 1975 Schweppes in a field of 29. 2nd top weight was Flash Imp on 11-8. 5yo Birds Nest was on 10-7. 7 of the top 9 in the weights were c/d winners, including Indianapolis on 11-2, who'd won the race in 1973. (It was abandoned in 1974).

The paper betting was 4-1 Maddenstown, 5-1 Lanzarote, 15-2 Birds Nest and Flash Imp.

(Flash Imp went on to run 2nd in the Champion Hurdle the following month to Comedy Of Errors, who by-passd the Schweppes and warmed up in the Champion Hurdle Trial at Wolverhampton on the Monday 2 days later).

Some fabulous Hurdler names there - ged.

Far better than all these flamin' French names, nowadays.

LANZAROTTE did run - ridden by Richard Pitman - weakened into midfield - 9/2 FAV from 6s

Tammuz Won - 7-10-13 - W 'Bill' Smith - by half a length - at the unusual odds of 18/1

Trained by Fulke Walwyn - Owned by the Queen Mother - bred by  her daughter, The Queen.

Schweppes. What happened to the Stones Ginger Wine.Not seen it lately.

Thanks onlooker.

Top of the 1976 weights were Tree Tangle and Flash Imp, the placed horses in the previous year's Champion Hurdle, but the field as a whole is looking distinctly lower quality than a decade earlier.

In 1977, the top weight was 11-4, and again the field is looking more ordinary.

As a historical (perhaps) point of interest, the day before the 1977 Schweppes, the Jockey Club dished out their first bans to  2 trainers for using steroids, and banned 4 horses for the rest of the season. The trainers were Davids Morley and Gandolfo.

...should be *fines to trainers.

Schweppes every time for me. And for William Franklyn too I imagine.  (One for the other oldies there).

Ryan Price was a character and great trainer on Flat and over Jumps. Did you know him blackbarn? him coming from your neck of the woods. Was it Hill House that manufactured it`s own dope?

As I think you know Mac, I did meet him once or twice, because my Uncle Jack knew him (only on a hello Captain Price, hello Jack basis). On reflection this was perhaps a bit weird because Uncle Jack was on first name terms with most Sussex/Lewes trainers (Gosden, Masson, Smyth, and at least a dozen more).  I remember Towzer (cos he gave me a shilling to bet at Brighton when I was about 10) and HRP (who just looked like a schoolboys idea of a racehorse trainer - a cross between Terry-Thomas and a very posh mix of Tommy Trinder and Private Walker.

I recollect you saying before blackbarn now that I see your post. Sorry, I wasn`t trying to catch you out, just that sometimes I forget things. Even when I read some of my old posts I can`t remember making them. I can remember things that happened 30 years ago and struggle to remember what I done yesterday. It`s scary mate I need a dram, lol.

That was a great site you posted a link previously for about FINDON. A terrific read. The Smyth`s were big favourites of mine. Thanks

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/grand-national-horses-training

Pause it at 18 to 20 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unJQvFOu3ec

Sundew's 1957 Grand National, worth watching all the way through but from 7.30 there are good images of HRP with tilted trilby and sheepskin coat.

It was still called the Schweppes last time I backed the winner (Ra Nova 84)
93 was an unusual year, 16 runners , 11 of them out of the handicap including the 1st three home.
The winner was King Credo, the trainer Steve Woodmans only winner of the season.

My advice is drink Scweppes and save your money..

The first time I went to the race was 1989 when a truly pathetic field of 10 lined up, all the rest having been scared off by an odds-on favourite Vicario di Bray, which was dutifully turned over.

.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7awzpPu_9Q

It`s a sign of getting old, referring to races by their past names. Whitbread Gold Cup, Massey Ferguson Gold Cup, Sweeps Hurdle, etc etc

Schweppes dropped one when they stopped sponsorship this. Anybody who knew anything about the horses would have Schweppes tonic with a glug of gin. No more. Sign of the times.

tbf this race hit a terrible patch of abandonments, didn't it (it's still frequently touch and go)?

From memory (could be wrong) wasn't it lost 2/3/4 years on the trot and the sponsors got the hump?

Lost in '81, '83, '85 and '86.

It was lucky it got off to a good start in '63 by being held at Aintree in late March, rather than Newbury in mid-Feb, because the winter of '63 wiped out racing for weeks in Jan and Feb that year.


I never answered the original question, but it would be Schweppes for me, partly because my uncle was a foreman at the Schweppes factory in Sidcup in the '60s. He was captain of their cricket team when he was in his 50s. He and my aunt both had betting accounts, and had a stock of the old Copes racegoers annuals from when their accounts were with that firm before they got absorbed by William Hill. I used to spend my Saturday afternoons reading through those while I was cleaning my aunt's collection of brass rubbish that she bought for pennies at the stalls in the Caledonian market in Deptford. I went on a Schweppes company coach trip to Ascot in 1970 - my uncle didn't want to go, so my aunt took me instead. It was supposed to be the Heath meeting on the Saturday, but because there was a General Election on the Thursday, the Saturday had the Gold Cup card instead, so I saw the previous year's Derby winner Blakeney make a good but unavailing effort to win what was probably not a very good Gold Cup.

** maybe it wasn't luck. Perhaps it was meant to be at Newbury in Feb '63.


I think one of Price's winners, Le Vermontois, got stuck in France by the outbreak of swamp fever there in the '60s.

I was at Newbury when Hill House won and many in the stands were booing ...the problem was he'd been well beaten at Sandown a couple of weeks beforehand and then walked away with the richest handicap hurdle of the year. Capt Price was something else and not a man to cross.

I was trying to remember why the horse was so unpopular. It was reported that objects were thrown at him as he entered the winner's enclosure. I hope it was not you doing the throwing Posy.

Not long after that race Captain Price was interviewed on tv. When asked if he had backed Hill House he replied,"Backed it? I have never backed a racehorse in my life! Far too risky."

Although i've done some stupid things am glad to confirm that throwing anything at a horse isn't one of them...although i do recall being annoyed cos i'd backed him at Sandown and after that run hadn't given him a chance in the Schweppes. Price's stranglehold on the race in the early years was quite remarkable although to be fair he employed probably the best jockey riding at the time..Josh Gifford.

John Oaksey once described him as "Capt Ryan Price, ex-Commando, fearless horseman, dedicated animal-lover, outspoken self-publicist and, let no-one doubt or question it, brilliant trainer of racehorses."

It has always been the Schweppes to me and remember backing Elan when the whole betting shop seemed to be on it.

I remember reading that he bought back one of his Cesarewitch winners at a sale after his career was pretty much over, just so he could have him in his paddock at home, along with a couple of his other old favourites. I think it was Utrillo.

*after the horse's career was over.

Then there was the after-race interview with Brough Scott at Chester afer Obratzovy (sp) had won one of the classic trials there, as reported by Scott...

Scott.. "Have you got any plans for him?"

Price.."Plans? Of course I've got f**king plans!!

The Sandown race that Hill House ran in was just 7 days earlier. The booing broke out as the horse went clear on the run to the last, and broke out again as the hore entered the unsaddling ring. The official notice of the enquiry was announced soon after the race, and that the 2 races would be reviewed 'in every aspect', at which "a tumultuous cheer broke out".

Incidentally, Red Dove, the grand-dam of Flakey Dove, also ran in that 1967 running won by Hill House. She was 11 years old then.

Excellent work ged

from memory the horse was never the same again...the reason for his success was put down to something like manufacturing his own cortisone (pull the other one !)

Hill House was a wonderful name for a nag involved in a coup.
I believe it was cortisone Posy.
Happy Days!

As mentioned above, he was set to carry 12-1 in the race the following year - 2 lbs more than Persian War, so, not surprisingly, he wasn't going to be given too much chance in handicap hurdles in the future. I remember him going novice chasing - and I think I remember him racing against Orient War (who was owned by John Banks, and beat Persian War once over hurdles) at Ascot in a decent small field novice chase, but can't remember what happened.

John Banks also owned Hill House, he bought him afterwards.

That's right so he did. More publicity the better, I guess. I think the horse became reluctant to start.


Looking at the previous Saturday Sandown card, Hill House had a 'bf' against his name in that race too.

The Stones Ginger Wine Chase was on that Sandown card (Dicky May, Pawnbroker, The Laird, Charlie Worcester, Hello Dolly); the Scilly Isles novice (Bowgeeno, Flosuebarb); the Oteley Hurdle (Three No Trumps, Kirriemuir); a hcap hurdle (4yo Spanish Steps).

The day before had the Gainsborough Chase with 10yos Mill House and What A Myth. The latter was fav, but the big horse was on the comeback and turned him over by a neck at level weights. They bet 6/5 and 11/10. Must have been a race to remember.

I think I have only backed the winner once (in 32 years of betting)and that was Recession Proof.

One I do remember well though was Neblin beating my well backed Mrs Muck. I also backed Flakey Dove in this but not the CHdl.

Great post ged ;i'll have to go into the attic and see if i can find the saturday racecard...y

Foxy - it was cortisol that the horse produced abnormal quantities of (naturally!).  All charges were dropped in the face of overwhelming veterinary evidence. Hth.

Message meant for Posy not foxy   Cortisol is naturally produced by horses, and humans for that matter.

I mentioned that he manufactured his own dope quite early in the thread, but I think it went over everyone's head. What was the name of the Snailwell Stud horse of Easterby's which was proven to have been contaminated by a Mars Bar? Mil's Bomb or something like that?

Mac it was No Bombs!

Cheers blackbarn! I was close. Was Mil's Bomb the Murless horse? Can't remember the owner's name but very famous colours, Yellow and Black? Attica Meli carried them.

Bravo Lizzie  !!

Our Lizzie

Mils Bomb was Murless .Louis Freedman Cliveden Stud TMM yellow black spots Reference Point et al
I think No Bombs was owned by Stanhope Joel(Pink and Green stripes?) relative of Jim Joel.

That's the one. Thanks Geoff. Think No Bombs was Snailwell Stud which was owned by Mrs Stanhope Joel.

Who was the Murless owner, Yellow with Black disc? Attica Meli.

Same TMM black spots Louis Freedman.Think she ran 2nd to Rheingold in Hardwicke and won Yorkshire Oaks Park Hill  probably a few more which i cant recall and ended up winning Doncaster Cup

Yellow Black disc were Louis Freedmans second colours.

Will always be the Schweppes to me.....mind it did get cancelled a lot back in the day.

But the Game Spirit is the race that brings back one particular memory for me.
In it's previous name as the Newbury Spring Chase ,the legends that were Pendil and Bula clashed ......but finished only 2nd and 4th of five runners to 25/1 shock winner ....Shock Result.

No Bombs ran in Mrs Stanhope Joel's colours of pink/green checks with pink sleeves and cap.  This these are synonymous with Snailwell Stud.

Yes, the Alverton colours.

Regards Attica Meli, I thought they might have been his wife's colours but I stand corrected.

Schweppes Gold Trophy - always.

I rememeber the 70's and telling anyone that wanted to listen in the weeks leading up to the race, back Good Review (trained by no other than V O'Brien) I thought it was a fantastic bet. On the day of the race, guess who didn't back it

ged - re: the aforementioned Orient War - bought by John Banks.

He originally raced in Ireland - and, on the same card as the previously mentioned 1975 Schweppes Handicap Hurdle, contested by Lanzarote, and won by Tammuz - Orient War won the Soapey Sponge Hunter Chase - as a 12-y-r-old - ridden by a 7lb claimer called Richard Linley.

I remember one year late 70s early 80s there was a massive tip/gamble on Bedworth Boy to win that year's Schweppes. He finished 4th bind Bootlaces but we got our stake back and he paid us handsomely once he went chasing.

onlooker -thanks for that. Some other one-time-decent chasers in the 'Soapey Spunge' HC that day - Chatham, who'd won a Mackeson Gold Cup 5 years before, Kinloch Brae, and Simian.

Also a few other notable jockeys - Mr N Henderson, Mr P Hobbs (I think that was Philip, and not his brother Peter), and also, although he's the only one not declared on the card in the paper, Brod Munro-Wilson, having his first ever ride (he PU'd).