Havlin- time to pack it in

Go away and have a look at the 2.00 ima and come back to me then, as you clearly haven't seen it or don't watch much racing at all for that matter

Sounds to be like what you are saying then MJK is that if the horse is good enough then so is Havlin and seeing as that's always been a bit of a mantra of mine with many jockeys, I tend to agree.

Do you really think he couldn't have won races on the likes of Kingman or Golden Horn? He often rides some of Gosden's top horse first time out in or to win their maidens, when they are obviously the least experienced as they will ever be on a racecourse. Winning on horses like Great Heavens, Jack Hobbs and The Fugue or has won races like the July Stakes on Shalaa when Dettori presumably wasn't available, a horse that then went on to win the Gr1 Prix Morney and Gr1 Middle Park.

I'm almost certain too that he was at Manton under PC-H and stayed there under Gosden and then carried on with Gosden when he moved back to Newmarket

I've watched the race snap crackle and pop and even layed the Crisford horse in it and I've been watching racing long enough to know that a race isn't just the last 50 yards and can be won or lost much earlier than that.

The winner was drawn in stall 1, got out well and bagged the rail. Havlin's horse was in 3, didn't get out well so couldn't bag the rail, or at least not in front and on it anyway. He's then gone the shortest way around to save ground, pulled around runners off the last bend when they've not swung wide to leave a gap and then his horse was hanging and lugging in away from the whip whenever he tried to use it.

Had he finished 4th then I doubt you would have made anything of it but because he did so well to get 2nd when closing all the way to the line, you deem that as a bad ride. Even if it was though, a specific bad ride doesn't make someone useless.

Get into bed ima ya plum, if you think that wasn't a bad ride you obviously haven't got a fcukin notion what's going on, we see similar stuff from him week in week out, far from a one off

Ima not quite. A few horses in every race can be good enough to win. What I'm saying is that for the likes of Havlin to win on them they're not just good enough to win but have plenty in hand. It's the ones that maybe not the best in the race that the jockeys make the difference. Havlin is basically a workrider who gets good rides from s top stable because of the sheer volume. It's like throwing darts. Some of them will stick.

Anybody entertaining ima mazed is bonkers, a complete and utter prikk, who would argue with his toes and is constantly defending the indefensible.
I blocked the clown many moons ago and i certainly dont regret it.

Being called a complete and utter pr1ck by paulie numbnuts the mincer is a bit like being called goal-shy by Yaya Sanogo.

We might all spring from apes but you clearly didn't get much that bounce.

Surely even Raging Rab cannot lose on Dangerous Thoughts ?

Of course he can if the horse isn't good enough.

Emergency services guy waiting at the weighing room with a canister of oxygen for Rab

Was this one of those hotshot, powerful stable, non-quirky so no need for any aids fitted runners he should really have been winning on regardless?

Wolverhampton (AW) Result
18 Jan 2016
                                                        OR
1  Depth Charge (IRE) 33/1  4  9-4 tv    Kristin Stubbs    65   Robert Havlin

It was obviously far better than the rest on the day hence he won on it

So you are once again merely proving my point without seemingly even realising it, in that if the horse is good enough then so is Havlin.

Although that seems to gets processed by you MJK as if Havlin wins on a horse it's because the horse was good enough to, even if Havlin apparently wasn't. Yet if he gets beaten on one that wasn't good enough, it's not because of the very fact that it wasn't good enough but because Havlin himself wasn't good enough to somehow make it win.

Strange logic there.

No. I said he'll win on the ones that anyone can win on. But better jockeys than him can win on one's that might not be the best in the race and the jockey made the difference. He'll never be the reason the horse wins because he's nowhere near the top jocks. Ann Stokell imop would win on the ones he wins on. That's the way I see it. I hope that's clear.

It's clear but it's a bit of nonsense view I'm afraid MJK.

If Havlin ever does win by a short distance in a ding dong battle, then you will just either ignore those times or label it as one he should have won on anyway. Yet get beaten in a finish and you will mostly likely say the horse would have won with another jockey on.

All jockeys win and lose their share of close races but some have different perceptions in some people's eyes about how good or bad they are in those situations. I agree that any number of jockeys could win on some of the very best horses but that's because as I've always said on here, it's far more about the horses than the jockeys.

I'm guessing you will have Dettori as a better jockey than Havlin and also have Golden Horn as a better horse than Jack Hobbs, so does that mean your money would be on a Dettori ridden Jack Hobbs over a Havlin ridden Golden Horn?

ima_mazed66


         ima_mazed66   






  05 Feb 16 20:01 
Joined:   12 Oct 09      | Topic/replies: 8,990  | Blogger: ima_mazed66's blog   



So you are once again merely proving my point without seemingly even realising it, in that if the horse is good enough then so is Fallon.

Although that seems to gets processed by you MJK as if Fallon wins on a horse it's because the horse was good enough to, even if Fallon apparently wasn't. Yet if he gets beaten on one that wasn't good enough, it's not because of the very fact that it wasn't good enough but because Fallon himself wasn't good enough to somehow make it win.

Strange logic there.

Please please don't turn this into a political broadcast. I've said what I've said. But to finish you say about him winning in a finish or not and how it would be cited either way to suit my argument. But if he gets beaten on one that shouldn't lose wont you just say the horse wasn't good enough? And btw I said any jockey will win on a horse that is WAY better than the rest. Big difference to just being the best horse. That's where the jockey comes in.

THE GUY IS A JOKE. If i was as bad as he is at his job id be fired years ago

This should make for good viewing here on Peril

Different gravy....

oi oi

snap crackle and pop • February 8, 2016 4:38 PM GMT
This should make for good viewing here on Peril

poor snap

I didn't see much wrong with that ride when beating probably one of the best jockeys riding in Britain today......Although let me try and guess the typical responses here.

"Was on the best horse so even Ann Stokell would have won on it!"

Shouldn't Andrea Atzeni have won that race if it's accepted by most that he's a better jockey than Rab Havlin and jockeys make the difference? Yet both horses are the same age, have the same OR and so carried the same weight.

I've said it many times on here before but if the horse is good enough then generally so is the jockey, as it's far more about the horses than jockeys.

Rab and Andrea did the S/F between them imo............

Ima head in the clouds man , yes its horses that jump obstacles but need jockeys to point them in right direction , if horse is generally good enough to win the jockey is too , lol yes if the best horse in the race has a competent jock always helps to point in right direction , jockeys make difference between winning and losing in a lot of instances , crisfords horses are in great form so its hard for havlin to lose on em , as people have stated before ya wouldnt want him on your horse all things being equal cos ya need that horse to be way ahead of the curve and i backed peril , silliest argument yet you ve put forward lol

I wish you had let me know in advance 11kv as I only had the winner.

They both texted me but I lost your no.......

suppose spencer wasn on best one there lol helps to have a jockey that can steer too

So why didn't Havlin get the Gosden job? Why did McManus want Geraghty? Why did Coolmore want Moore? Why did Vincent O'Brien want Pigott? I could go on. You should've told these people that they should be going fir 'lesser' jockeys as it makes little difference.

Ima?

11kv    08 Feb 16 17:16 
They both texted me but I lost your no.......

In fairness, not many people have got my number......some just think that they have.

MJK    08 Feb 16 17:45 
So why didn't Havlin get the Gosden job? Why did McManus want Geraghty? Why did Coolmore want Moore? Why did Vincent O'Brien want Pigott? I could go on. You should've told these people that they should be going fir 'lesser' jockeys as it makes little difference.

Because nobody is saying he is the best jockey out there and Gosden obviously puts Dettori ahead of Havlin.

Has McManus sold all of his horses now then after McCoy has retired? Did Coolmore walk away from the game after Kinane, Fallon and Murtagh no longer rode for them? Did Vincent O'Brien give up the game once his association ended with Piggott?

No of course none of that happened, but as I keep saying but you keep misinterpreting, my claim was there's very little in it at the top end of the scale with jockeys (the bold is to help it register) so when you replace McCoy with Geraghty, Piggott with Eddery, or Kinane with Fallon (albeit Spencer in between) and then he's replaced by Murtagh, you're essentially getting a like for like replacement or at the very least minimal difference ability wise, because once again as I've said on numerous occasions, it's far more about the horses than the jockeys.

Now that's not to say based on his achievements in the sport that I'm suggesting Havlin is in the very top bracket of jockeys, but he's more than capable and competent if the horse is good enough and I don't doubt for one minute that he would still have won on many of the top Gosden horses that the likes of Buick and Dettori have won on if getting the chance to. In fact he has when he did get the chances.

When Benny The Dip won the Derby, in its two previous races Dettori and Peslier had ridden the horse in the Thresher/Sandown Derby trial and the Dante but they were both claimed by Godolphin/Sheikh Mo and so Gosden considered Tony Garth who rode the horse the first two times and won its maiden on it, Gary Hind who had ridden a few Group race winners for Gosden and Willie Ryan who didn't really have a connection to the yard. The horse's American owner basically asked Gosden which of them had ridden in the Derby more previously and on that basis went with Ryan.

Not only did Ryan win on it but beat Pat Eddery, one of the all-time greats by a short head in a race that also contained as mentioned, Dettori and Peslier as well as Ray Cochrane, Kieren Fallon, Michael Hills, Mick Kinane and John Reid who by my reckoning as of today have 15 Derby winners between them.

Would I personally put Ryan up there with most of those other names? No I wouldn't and at best would say he was on a par with Michael Hills and Havlin is closer to their group that the rest of the names, but if someone else had got the ride instead of Ryan then no doubt anyone claiming he was good enough to ride a Derby winner just as long as the horse was good enough, would have been ridiculed for saying so, just as nobody today really thinks Garth or Hind could have ridden a Derby winner based on that they never did, yet how many rides if any did they have in the race?

Another masterclass from ace pilot Rab

Oh dear...

ProSniper, best horse won, whats ya problem?

Top marks Rab! No pace on and doesn't have the initiative to send it on.

HowTheMightyFall, Havlin is the problem. Can anyone give me his entire record on odds-on to 2/1?

I'd say it makes for some reading

Outrode George Fecking Baker there no problem.

Pechora, well done Rab.Good enough for Gosden says it all.

well done rab

snap the pocket talking seether

poor snap ,everyone knows hes a muppet...........snap will now log in as THE WASP to try and build himself up

16:00
Full result
1st     12 My Time     66/1
2nd     4 Tasaaboq     9/2
3rd     2 Quadriga (IRE)     9/4 f

    Winning Trainer M Mullineaux
    Winning Jockey R Havlin

I thought today was the day for Tasaaboq.

Once again my moral victory won't have me feasting.

08 Mar 16 / 14:11     Single (EW)     1           4:00 Southwell  –  Win     My Time @ 66/1 GP (Price taken @ 50/1) 3@1/4     Won     £40.00     £1690.00     O/0492987/0003519/F

Some of you might want to try a slice of bread to wipe that egg away.

Another classic thread on betfair!!

Only 45.54 betfair SP this time.

Yesterday it was 106.47.

A couple of big priced winners hardly makes up for pathetic displays on much better fancied horses. And who is collecting on these "apparent" no-hopers when they go in at such big prices?

How much did you lose on those supposedly better horses,from what I remember a lot of them were overbet slowboats shortened by the lemmings..

I didn't/can't lose a penny on a Havlin ridden horse..since I banned myself from backing anything he sits on. Given he rides for a decent stable it means I lose out on a fair few winners(steering jobs)..but it also means I miss out on having to watch an incredibly weak pilot stuffing up X amount of probable/certain winners...

Most of the short one's mentioned on here have been nothing to do with the rides,he's simply been riding poor horses with inflated ratings and no decent speedfigures which have been overbet.Whether he's good bad or indifferent a large % of horses he rides on the aw are overbet with absolutely no justification of prices,so that's due to punters lack of knowledge not necessarily his poor riding.It's also very easy to prove,i could pick holes in nearly all of these recent shorties he's been beaten on and I would guess that hardly any of them have a decent speedfigure,infact I would I'm almost 100% sure because I would've noted them if they had.His most conspicuous ride was probably the one not even mentioned on here over 5fs at swell,but that's a different story..

Mar 9, 2016 -- 11:49PM, ProSniper wrote:

A couple of big priced winners hardly makes up for pathetic displays on much better fancied horses. And who is collecting on these "apparent" no-hopers when they go in at such big prices?

Absolutely. It's like those 'where are the x,y,z haters now' threads that appear after someone rides a winner after a hundred poor rides. You're better off just being contented in yourself knowing you're right.

So it's not just a case of the 66]1 shot was good enough and the 100 losers weren't then? When I put up the result of a 33/1 winner Havlin had earlier in the thread was it you MJK saying the horse was good enough and so that's why he won on it?

Gosden has had one winner from his last seven runners and that was ridden by Havlin. Four different jockeys have been beaten on the others and I would also suggest that if other jockeys had ridden some of the Crisford horses recently too that they would also have been beaten on them (in fact Ryan Moore rode one and he was) because they just weren't good enough.

Surely if Havlin was that bad then there would be no chance at all of him riding 25/1, 33/1 and 66/1 winners like he has recently. Plus I'll go out on a limb here and suggest no jockey gives horses 100 poor rides and if they did, then they wouldn't be getting the rides that they do.

SNAP ITS TIME YOU PACKED IT IN TIPPING 2/11 LOSERS



Ben Button
snap crackle and pop

snap crackle and pop
13 Mar 16 09:01
Joined: 09 Dec 09
| Topic/replies: 3,158 | Blogger: snap crackle and pop's blog
3.10 Limerick. Long time since Phil has had a 13/8 shot of any description running in a race in Ireland. But expect him to be in the winners enclosure today with this lad. His run in Cork behind Moylisha Tim would more than suffice here.

Anyone who hasn't got the Chelt ex's, this is as good an opportunity as any

Oh dear...

Oh dear...

Oh dear...

Meaning what exactly?

Another steering job win for Rab. Even Ann Stokell - minus 1 arm and leg would have won on that.

Oh dear...

the horse should be running in Kentucky tonight. Horse simply not suited to turf. No coincidence its best run was at Southwell.
You'd have to wonder what Coolmore are thinking having him in training in Britain

ProSniper    22 Apr 16 16:05 
Another steering job win for Rab. Even Ann Stokell - minus 1 arm and leg would have won on that.

That's probably because her horse wouldn't be carrying much weight.

Oh dear(in advance)...

Thanks for the lay Rob.

Clueless.

needs to fook off

Gosden seems to like him..

Don't normally post but I feel that was very poor could very well have won with a better ride

Not great ride, but hardly his worst either. He got beaten by some clever rides against him there too.

Cmon.....Havlin was simply awful on Edward Lewis, joke ride surely.

Oh dear...

A thread to himself

.... tbf he is not as bad as that. Another bad one today but all jockeys have their fair share of dreadful rides.

.

the only time i liked him was when he was suspended.

.

.

should have stayed on the drugs

Maybe we should give him a nudge by suggesting job alternatives. Any ideas?

... head waiter.

Be realistic, he'd have to work his way up there from dish washer.

Please listen Rab.

..

i said he was hopeless , many moons ago , and got shot down for it,,  i say again he has to be on horse that doesnt need any help from him being in the saddle.

please dont retire rab,, your worth a lot ,,to the layers pal.

Feb 28, 2018 -- 3:30PM, the ferret wrote:

should have stayed on the drugs

Looks like he’s snorted more coke than Tony Montana from Scarface. Looks so f*cked half the time he looks dead lol.

..

The BF System strikes again.

Eye bluffed that win out of the useless tw@@t

hes terrible