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Punters Forum
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yeh comes across as the punters saviour yet all the bookmakers points and excuses are sticking out of his back pocket doesnt he realise the reason punters are bending rules as he calls it is because its the only way they can get on
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Some of you people should learn some manners. It's been commented on that the people on this punters forum get their expenses paid for attending. Some of you have not only hung, drawn and quartered them before they have even given a view on the issue but have done so using very insulting terminology.
You don't like what these people are seeking to do for free on your behalf? Why don't you start up your own punters forum? Ah yes that's right. You're either too self centred wailing like babies because the bookie took your dummy off you or you can't be bothered to put the effort in. I for one will reserve judgement until all the facts are in. You people can march around sticking your pitchforks in each others backsides for all the good that will do you. An open hand and kind word will get you a lot further than scowls and abuse. |
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stevetilley
5. BHA exchange? An interesting idea. You have come across as playing with a pretty straight bat so I'm assuming this wasn't said sarcastically. It's a suggestion which has oft been mooted on this forum. If, as a regular punter yourself and having mixed with the members of the punters forum you genuinely haven't had this suggested to you it's very puzzling. Given I think the BHA are the driving force behind BHF it is even more surprising. I'd hardly say this is a revolutionary concept given the difficulties racing faces now and going forward. Not only do we know that an exchange can thrive technologically as has been proven but one run for the benefit of racing would have massive strategic advantages over any other and could make a lot of money for racing. |
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The bookmaker argument of multiple accounts these days is extremely flawed in the era of "Know Your Customer" (KYC). How can a customer be allowed multiple accounts if these checks are being carried out properly.
Yes, in theory you can open an account in another persons name, but given the necessary ID that needs to be provided, this is probably very rare and only probably possible via a spouse. Certainly you cannot likely create 10 such accounts as in your example. |
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The point still remains that punters shouldn't have to have many accounts to get a reasonable bet on horse racing if bookmakers wanted to accept bets on the sport,but we know they don't.How do trainers,owners,sportsmen/women,tv personalities,racing journalists,creators of Horse Racing websites that have promoted every bookmaker promotion and betting and arbing strategies going,bookmaker affiliated twitter tippers et al get on no problem.There is no fairness whatsoever and it should be asked why the above mentioned can bet freely,when the likes of me have to scrape round day in day out or wait to get the scraps on here come race time.
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i know people that have had 20+ accounts
i myself only ones in my name but i did help my girlfriend open one on here for her benefit not mine now closed |
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Eeternaloptimist, get a life will you please. I couldnt give two fukks about this punters forum because i know what it is, a big heap of shiite.
Bookies nowadays are vermin, they wouldnt pisss on punters, certainly not ones who could give them a run for their money. How anyone can take this tilley character seriously , is beyond belief. When he starts telling us punters are being unfair then it really is time to take stock. |
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stevetilley has no obligation to come on here and take this grief, especially as it`s his real name. At least give the chap a chance to succeed or fail and, until YOU ungrateful bast@rds can do better, PHUCK OFF!!!
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Seems like a nice guy that mincer ignore him you talk more sense than most on here let's give them a chance I agree
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And I`m an indie bookie!
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these were my bets today in shop all bog all at wolves prices taken at the time all £25
4.15 cocoa beach 7-4 1st 9-4 4.45 kiwayu 9-2 unp 9-2 5.15 madame barker 4-1 1st 9-2 5.45 dalawah 13-2 unp 7-1 6.15 stocking 3-1 unp 3-1 6.45 foylesideview 4-1 unp 3rd 13-2 so i have 2 winners their sp have beat the bog price i have 3 unplaced.2 prices same as sp.1 sp better than bog 1 placed sp better than bog so you could say a bookmaker wouldnt restrict me at prices as i havent beaten sp but what they will do is they will take bog away as 4 prices at sp have beaten prices taken and 2 level in shop you may get on ok but online forget it |
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Paul Haigh - Total Respect 08 Jan 16 12:06 Joined: 08 Aug 07 | Topic/replies: 440 | Blogger: Paul Haigh - Total Respect's blog
Is there a bigger penus on here ... (spelt like that because he is) |
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Yawn I have had probably had 2000 banned accounts.
10 new computers and even 50 new IP addresses.. And still cannot get a bet on... The likes of that freak paul haigh campaigns for some bluffer that cannot read and write...And wants a few quid in compensation because some fraud will not pay him a couple of hundred quid... Get with the big picture... |
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As far as im concerned he has had his chances, when he comes out with guff like that then its clear to see its just another bookies lapdog.
Ive seen enough on this thread to make up my own mind. |
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Well go away, then, and take that painfully self-obsessed homefortea with you. Close the door on the way out, thanks.
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Eeternaloptimist, get a life will you please. I couldnt give two fukks about this punters forum because i know what it is, a big heap of shiite.
So disinterested are you that you've told us all several times and very loudly mincer. Is that what you do in you every day life? Up early waiting for the 7-11 and as soon as they open the door, "I don't want any fuccking milk and you can shove your bread up your ar5e" and off back to the bedsit for a well earned rest so you don't exhaust your brain cell? |
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Wow. Just...wow
I have seen betfair forumites.. Not understand the issues at hand Ignore the issues at hand Overclaim their knowledge in a field Claim to be a representitive of punters Defend bookmakers for discriminating against punters who win Attack punters who can win as a criminal minority who will do anything to make money Aftertime about winnings Tell others how easy it is to win Tell others how easy it is to win while ALSO being fair to bookmakers I have never seen a formuite.. Not understand the issues at hand, ignore the issues at hand, overclaim their knowledge in a field, claim to be a representitive of punters, defend bookmakers for discriminating against punters who win, attack punters who can win as a criminal minority who will do anything to make money, aftertime about winnings, tell others how easy it is to win AND tell others how easy it is to win while ALSO being fair to bookmakers. Great work |
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And you got all that from reading this chaps posts?
I don't suppose you can substantiate your claims? |
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Sorry
* imo |
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Unless you'd just plucked your thoughts out of the air you'd need to have based them on evidence from what he said. Otherwise you'd just look foolish. Wouldn't you agree?
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A poster advocates a BHA run exchange with a fair fixed deduction and no additional charge on anyone who dares turn a profit i think this could work for the benefit of all.Certainly an idea worthy of being on the agenda for a future HBF meeting.Do any other members have thoughts on this.?
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I think it`s a bit ambitious at this stage. Plenty of start-up costs, with zero guarantees that it would be able to steal the necessary liquidity from here, (which is, after all, a one-stop-shop for most punters who also play non-racing markets). Others with deeper pockets have tried. And failed.
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eeternaloptimist every one is entitled to theyr own opinion and from what ive read on here i have no confidence in this so called punters forum hope they prove me wrong but there are too many statements that are very concerning its one thing coming up with all these ideas and foundations that are talked about but what can they do to change it feck all
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Numbers below are simplified to make a simple point:
Punter has £10 bet with bookie. Horse lost. Bookie makes £10. Return to racing @10% is £1. Punter has £10 back bet on exchange. Horse lost. Exchange makes 50p. Return to racing @10% is 5p. Any suggestions? |
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Yes, that argument is simplistic. The example does not allow that the supposed £1 is reduced by the extent of winning bets, which on a single race, could make the outcome negative to racing.
Wake up Sir! |
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The Headmaster
what about the commission from the punter who had the winning bet at the odds (whatever they were) and then exchange's commission  |
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Of course they are bruno but I don't think it's unreasonable to ask people to back up assertions if they appear to have misrepresented someone. Like you I also have reservations. The punters forum can only look into things and make recommendations. Even if these are first class and ground breaking they themselves won't have any power to enforce them. Still, from tiny acorns. Before what did we have? Now what do we have? What could we have in the future is the next question?
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In some Australian states it is now the law that any bookmaker must lay a horse to win a min 500 dollars to all customers.My understanding is that this came as a result of UK Bookmakers buying Aussie sports books and quickly following the same MO as in this country which as we know for some means being offered tiny amounts.
The HBF have identified this as the main topic of frustration for punters and i would ask their members are they considering negotiating with the Bookmakers to achieve the same and if so do they a fig in mind.? I would also be interested in reading other members thoughts on this. |
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A guaranteed liability to early prices from Bookmakers is what the Punters Forum should be pushing for.
What sum would be acceptable? 1K?........£500?.......anything less would be pointless. Will Bookmakers in this country enter into a voluntary agreement? NO CHANCE The ONLY way of achieving such a goal is to bring this issue into the mainstream press. Either shame the filth into laying to a minimum liability, or better still, let's have it as condition of granting a license that a minimum liability is agreed. The likes of eternaloptimist ( an apt moniker ) can object as much as he wants, but "negotiating" with Bookmakers is not the way forward, especially when we have the likes of stevetilly and his beliefs on our side. |
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Either shame the filth into...
What kind of language is that to using on a forum about an industry that it doing nothing outside of the law. |
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Filth doesnt even come close to describing bookies nowadays.
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After reading Mr Tilley say punters who want to win are "doing wrong" and the bookmakers should offer him " the chance to rectify his ways" I think we know what to expect, not very much.
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IDKW
I'd suggest you read my thoughts more carefully instead of waving your willy around. It's cold at this time of year. There's an old legal doctrine that a man who comes for equity should come with clean hands. You cant shame someone who feels no shame so good luck with that. Such things as we are hoping for in terms of guaranteed liabilities are in the hands of people who make the law and if you want to convince them to change the law then you need to be far smarter than just knocking peoples pints over. First you negotiate. It doesn't matter if the bookmakers don't play ball because hardly anybody, including myself, believe they will do anything much. The point is you've laid the foundations for winning the propaganda and PR war which follows. It is that which might see the changes many of us crave but if you don't do the ground work there are few politicians who will listen. They may still not listen but if you're going to war at least make sure you've got a good plan for giving yourself the best chance of success. So in my view the punters forum are doing the right thing if not quickly enough. Consultation with people and finding out what the punters grievances are is a better way of starting their preparation than simply making demands which may make them seem like loose cannons or not having a researched brief. |
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any success has to be based on a very simple argument ...for starters
say bookmakers licence revoked if you do not lay a bet to lose £100 , as a minimum requirement ie £20 on a 5/1 shot failure to comply must surely prove they do not warrant a licence to operate especially with all the other free money spin offs they have concessions for. this type of clause needs to be legislated for and is not for the ''pro-punter'' but for the massive majority who want a small bet , and the ability to choose where they want to bet . The sooner the better . |
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Dr Crippen
There are things that the bookmakers are doing that are the equivalent of stuff that the bankers have been fined (heavily) for*. Momentum is needed to get the betting industry subjected to the same rules as apply to the rest of the financial services industry. It WILL happen I am sure; it has to. When is the issue. *Barclays fined $150M fine by NY stock exchange for using "sophisticated computerised trading software that prevented foreign exchange orders being accepted from its customers that would lose money for the bank". In principle I don't see any difference between that behaviour and what off course books are doing..... |
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I would not presume to tell bookmakers how to run their business but i often wonder how much these restrictions might cost them in the longer term.? Amongst todays winning and restricted punters will be many who will or would lose on balance given the opportunity to continue.It's a question which cannot be answered but perhaps one which should be asked by shareholders.?
It appears to myself that proper traders with an understanding of horse race betting are being replaced with computer programs to flag and dictate the restrictions.? Stevetilly made mention of the additional frustration of those penalized in this way not being given explanation perhaps this is why.? |
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Parispike makes a good point. In any other industry they simply could not get away with it.
Imagine if you went to Sainsburys every day and just chose the special offers etc. Then Sainsburys issued a limit to what you could spend in the store , because you are not a profitable customer. It would be front page news , and the Directors would be fired . |
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Don't start mentioning a supermarket selling goods and using as an analogy as how a bookmaker should work, it goes straight over the Doctors head.
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Supermarkets can and do put limits on customers despite the fact that they are guaranteed to always "win" with any customer.
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Bookmakers also allow some to bet even though they are GUARANTEED to lose from those customers as I have mentioned more than once on this this thread which is what is really wrong.One rule for some and one rule for others not based in any way on financial profit and loss.
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