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We might start seeing some proper racing then. Far too many 4/5 runner races going on.
Limited racing in Ireland seems to help with the fields. Their quandary is having all the top horses in one yard.
Limited racing in Ireland seems to help with the fields. Their quandary is having all the top horses in one yard.
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Fcking three AW meetings today. How many more do you want!
That's what I say ss.
I rarely look at races with lots of runners.
I rarely look at races with lots of runners.
Small fields = less money surely bet on the race = less levy = less prize money = less horse population = less runners = smaller fields
Does anyone know how Irish racing is funded? Prize money for the smaller races seems much higher.
Does anyone know how Irish racing is funded? Prize money for the smaller races seems much higher.
Dr C, good afternoon .
Concur with your 15.53 post .
Concur with your 15.53 post .
I think there is an argument for a reducation in fixtures but one a day is going too far.
How about 2 UK jump meetings Monday to Friday
3 on a Saturday and 1 or 2 on a Sunday.
If the field sizes are still too small, get rid of one Monday and one Tuesday fixture.
How about 2 UK jump meetings Monday to Friday
3 on a Saturday and 1 or 2 on a Sunday.
If the field sizes are still too small, get rid of one Monday and one Tuesday fixture.
It would be a great idea to have more AW racing, i really cant wait for Newcastle to get going.
Then you will have the trinity complete, AW , flat jockeys, and North Of England.
Then you will have the trinity complete, AW , flat jockeys, and North Of England.
Very few races have more than 5 horses with realistic chances so the rest are therte to help the bookmakers. The first at Fontwell today had 9 runners but only 2 were ever showing any ability so what difference would it have made if only 5 had started? The best races have between 6 and 10 runners with most of them still in with a chance for most of the way. Of course betting is part of the sport but in terms of crowd attendance, a horse Like Frankel winning every time at 1/4 puts thousands on the gate.
Don't wish to argue old chap but is a 9 runner race where only 2 or 3 are going to be competitive a long way from helping the bookmakers? Although they bleat about races that have less than 8 runners every time you do get 8/9/10 runner races with only 3 live ones the managers' monitors are flashing all day long warning staff not to take a bet.
They basically want 8 runner BAGS horse races and if some people don't wake up they're going to get them.
They basically want 8 runner BAGS horse races and if some people don't wake up they're going to get them.
I'm the first race you are right, only two had any chance of winning but for most punters it would have been the toss of a coin to just over double your money. May as well play heads of tails with your mate.
If there are 8 or more runners then you will get many a punter both on and off course trying to pick one to run a place and come third. There are many races when that horse you pick may upstage the front two in the betting and win the race, meaning a nice return.
Take the beginners chase tomorrow in Ireland. Shaneshill is 1/4 and should win barring any accidents. If that race was in this country it would probably cut up into a 5 runner race. There are plenty of runners to pick up a place bet tomorrow.
Why there are so many handicaps in the uk with so few runners is even more shocking. At least in those races everyone has a more realistic chance of winning as you won't be stones behind the leader in the market.
If there are 8 or more runners then you will get many a punter both on and off course trying to pick one to run a place and come third. There are many races when that horse you pick may upstage the front two in the betting and win the race, meaning a nice return.
Take the beginners chase tomorrow in Ireland. Shaneshill is 1/4 and should win barring any accidents. If that race was in this country it would probably cut up into a 5 runner race. There are plenty of runners to pick up a place bet tomorrow.
Why there are so many handicaps in the uk with so few runners is even more shocking. At least in those races everyone has a more realistic chance of winning as you won't be stones behind the leader in the market.
Yes the Taunton card not too bad tomorrow but there are still over a quarter of races on both jumps fixtures with 7 or less runners.
RE Begs/Nov Chases in Ireland, it might be helpful to some to remind them that Ireland still asks trainers to requalify their horses for a Chase mark (ie, 3 runs in wfa chases) before they can run in a handicap. It goes a long way to explaining the disparity.
If someone could let Julian Muscat know it would be helpful too, cheers.
If someone could let Julian Muscat know it would be helpful too, cheers.
Need more races in Eng and Ire. Dont care how small the fields are just need the volume.
Ah I bet that frustrates Elliot and Martin as they have to run their horses out the back even more times.
Perhaps they should have more beginners, maiden races in the UK and force horses to be in the first third of the field to qualify for a handicap mark after three runs. If your horse is so bad it can't achieve that then after five runs give it a low mark.
That said prize money so poor these days that it costs more to train the horse and send it to the races for a few months than the horse than may win.
Always said the BHA should have its own betting exchange and use that to fund racing,
Perhaps they should have more beginners, maiden races in the UK and force horses to be in the first third of the field to qualify for a handicap mark after three runs. If your horse is so bad it can't achieve that then after five runs give it a low mark.
That said prize money so poor these days that it costs more to train the horse and send it to the races for a few months than the horse than may win.
Always said the BHA should have its own betting exchange and use that to fund racing,
Unfortunately its the same 100 horses running against each other all winter long with differing results.
Terribly boring to most, but suits the bookmakers.
Bit like the same 37 runners at roulette running every day with differing results.
Terribly boring to most, but suits the bookmakers.
Terribly boring to most, but suits the bookmakers.
Bit like the same 37 runners at roulette running every day with differing results.
Terribly boring to most, but suits the bookmakers.
The Headmaster, yes.
I don't think there are enough horses to justify (for example) Saturdays with four NH meetings and midweeks afternoons with three, particularly when they are not always well spread out geographically.
I don't think there are enough horses to justify (for example) Saturdays with four NH meetings and midweeks afternoons with three, particularly when they are not always well spread out geographically.
And I would not want to see the beginners chase system they have in Ireland, it only encourages horses being hooked.
2 a day and 3 on saturdays in the winter season 1 each day in the summer season.
aw 1 a month in the winter non in the summer.
aw 1 a month in the winter non in the summer.
Scrap daytime AW in the winter. What's the point? It they want racing on the flat out it on when it's dark.
If the racing is frozen off for days then just act quickly like Ireland and put on some new AW.
If the racing is frozen off for days then just act quickly like Ireland and put on some new AW.
As usual people advocating their own personal preferences. I don't care for jump racing but understand that many others do. They need to realise that some of us prefer to bet on the AW.
I don't see the argument for scrapping daytime all weather in the winter. It is catering for a largely different pool of horses than the jumps cards.
its affected the juvenile races.
sparrow i was just having a bit of fun about the aw,over the years i have had a lot of enjoyment with it and both me and my wife have had horses named after us that won at wollybags and southwell in fact i am going to wolly next week.
sparrow i was just having a bit of fun about the aw,over the years i have had a lot of enjoyment with it and both me and my wife have had horses named after us that won at wollybags and southwell in fact i am going to wolly next week.
Up to a point maybe. Big field in the Juvenile hurdle today. Don't think having all weather makes much difference to the jumps cards really. Certainly not the chases anyway.
Foxy, it was aimed mainly at quantize, but usually there are always people wanting to knock the AW as if nothing untoward ever happened at Turf meetings.
Good luck at Wolves next week.
Good luck at Wolves next week.
you used to get decent quality flat horses going over hurdles 2 that spring to mind are heighlin and kribensis,even the st leger winner moonax had a bash at it.
I backed Kribensis when he won the Champion Hurdle and was returned at the strange price 95/40 Fav.
good morning sparrow
yes a very strange price back then, nowadays of course you will see many strange prices on bookmakers boards the fact most punters dont understand 14/5 and 23/20 doesnt seen to bother them.
kribensis was sent of favorite in his first attempt to be champion hurdler.
yes a very strange price back then, nowadays of course you will see many strange prices on bookmakers boards the fact most punters dont understand 14/5 and 23/20 doesnt seen to bother them.
kribensis was sent of favorite in his first attempt to be champion hurdler.
we know what Racing Authorities think of NH Racing.
Monday
Coming into prime NH season
Kempton...very decent NH Card..Easily main feature meeting
Ludlow....decent Monday NH card
Chelmsford..Ordinary run of the mill AW racing at a bookies sponsored course,
As Racing Post Editor..what meeting , prey, would you put in the centre pages of The Racing Post
Monday
Coming into prime NH season
Kempton...very decent NH Card..Easily main feature meeting
Ludlow....decent Monday NH card
Chelmsford..Ordinary run of the mill AW racing at a bookies sponsored course,
As Racing Post Editor..what meeting , prey, would you put in the centre pages of The Racing Post
The Headmaster 25 Nov 15 17:41
Don't wish to argue old chap but is a 9 runner race where only 2 or 3 are going to be competitive a long way from helping the bookmakers? Although they bleat about races that have less than 8 runners every time you do get 8/9/10 runner races with only 3 live ones the managers' monitors are flashing all day long warning staff not to take a bet.
They basically want 8 runner BAGS horse races and if some people don't wake up they're going to get them.
Bookmakers Afternoon Greyhound Service
I know what you mean
Just leave the bl00dy racing as it is
Boxing day used to have 18 meetings and 16 abnd cos of snow
once upon a time 
loads of small fields but nobody moaned then.
Don't wish to argue old chap but is a 9 runner race where only 2 or 3 are going to be competitive a long way from helping the bookmakers? Although they bleat about races that have less than 8 runners every time you do get 8/9/10 runner races with only 3 live ones the managers' monitors are flashing all day long warning staff not to take a bet.
They basically want 8 runner BAGS horse races and if some people don't wake up they're going to get them.
Bookmakers Afternoon Greyhound Service
I know what you mean
Just leave the bl00dy racing as it is
Boxing day used to have 18 meetings and 16 abnd cos of snow
once upon a time loads of small fields but nobody moaned then.
Just on the all-weather v Jumps debate I don't think there can be any doubt whatsoever that the domestic all-weather programme (particularly the new enhanced one) plus the rise of the Dubai Carnival and the Australian appetite for high end British middle distance bloodstock has had a massively detrimental effect on the Jumps population pipeline, particularly regarding Juvenile and Novice Hurdles. Given his paymasters and the Dubai connection, the irony that Ferguson is one of very few to send high class Flat stock Jumping should probably not be lost on us.
Unless Bloomfields provide it will we ever see an Alderbrook or Kribensis again? It's nice to dream, but...
Unless Bloomfields provide it will we ever see an Alderbrook or Kribensis again? It's nice to dream, but...
This week - in ...
1970
Mon - Leicester, Folkestone
Tues - Leicester, Lingfield
Wed - Sedgefield, Fontwell
Thur - Taunton
Fri - Liverpool, Newbury, Newcastle
Sat - Liverpool, Newbury, Newcastle
1980
Mon - Carlisle, Folkestone, Leicester
Tues - Devon & Exter, Leicester
Wed - Kempton, Worcester
Thur - Kempton, Taunton, Towcester
Fri - Ayr, Market Rasen, Newbury
Sat - Ayr, Catterick, Newbury, Stratford
1990
Mon - Bangor, Leicester, Windsor
Tues - Wetherby, Southwell(AW), Wolverhampton(NH)
Wed - Haydock, Kelso, Plumpton
Thur - Haydock, Ludlow, Lingfield(AW), Wincanton
Fri - Leicester Newbury, Sedgefield
Sat - Newbury, Newcastle, Market Rasen, Towcester
1950
Mon - Birmingham
Tues - Birmingham
Wed - Doncaster
Thur - Doncaster, Wincanton
Fri - Ayr, Kempton
Sat - Ayr, Kempton
1970
Mon - Leicester, Folkestone
Tues - Leicester, Lingfield
Wed - Sedgefield, Fontwell
Thur - Taunton
Fri - Liverpool, Newbury, Newcastle
Sat - Liverpool, Newbury, Newcastle
1980
Mon - Carlisle, Folkestone, Leicester
Tues - Devon & Exter, Leicester
Wed - Kempton, Worcester
Thur - Kempton, Taunton, Towcester
Fri - Ayr, Market Rasen, Newbury
Sat - Ayr, Catterick, Newbury, Stratford
1990
Mon - Bangor, Leicester, Windsor
Tues - Wetherby, Southwell(AW), Wolverhampton(NH)
Wed - Haydock, Kelso, Plumpton
Thur - Haydock, Ludlow, Lingfield(AW), Wincanton
Fri - Leicester Newbury, Sedgefield
Sat - Newbury, Newcastle, Market Rasen, Towcester
1950
Mon - Birmingham
Tues - Birmingham
Wed - Doncaster
Thur - Doncaster, Wincanton
Fri - Ayr, Kempton
Sat - Ayr, Kempton
add galileo to that list as well headmaster he took very well to hurdles as a novice.
uk yes only 2 in ireland but i do plan to visit a few more doubt i will do them all time not on my side and they dont seem to race 3 days on the run very often at different tracks other than if dundalk is on.
did you preplan or just over the years
train is expensive,i guess car is best
train is expensive,i guess car is best
im East Lothian so closest track England is Carlisle 208 round trip
i didnt set of with it as a target but it soon became one,i do use the train sometimes but on the whole you will need a car,the likes of kelso and fakenham are nowhere near train stations even places like newcastle ludlow wetherby and haydock you would need good taxi rides to get to the course.
Tomorrow's meeting at Bangor has failed to justify the running of 4 NH meetings on the same day.
Nov 25, 2015 -- 3:51PM, salmon spray wrote:
What is wrong with small fields ?
the smaller the field the better if you own a horse in the race
Always surprises me that people on here worry about small fields along with bookmakers. Makes you wonder who's who.
As a punter you normally only want one horse to have a chance of winning. As a racing fan you want several. As a bookmaker presumably you want lots of no hopers that might draw some small bets from people who like the name.
Friday NH fields ...
Doncaster
15, 12, 10, 9, 9, 12, 9
Newbury
9, 8, 12, 7, 12, 10, 12
Mussleburgh
15, 10, 7, 11, 12, 12
Seen many much smaller collective meetings during the past decades.
Doncaster
15, 12, 10, 9, 9, 12, 9
Newbury
9, 8, 12, 7, 12, 10, 12
Mussleburgh
15, 10, 7, 11, 12, 12
Seen many much smaller collective meetings during the past decades.
Barton Bank
Tomorrow's meeting at Bangor has failed to justify the running of 4 NH meetings on the same day.
On a course that can struggle for runners and declaring on heavy ground I don't think the field sizes at Bangor are too bad at all. Certainly has nothing to do with it being the 4th meeting, as that would have to infer that Bangor and Newbury, for instance, are competing for runners
Tomorrow's meeting at Bangor has failed to justify the running of 4 NH meetings on the same day.
On a course that can struggle for runners and declaring on heavy ground I don't think the field sizes at Bangor are too bad at all. Certainly has nothing to do with it being the 4th meeting, as that would have to infer that Bangor and Newbury, for instance, are competing for runners
3 NH meetings and 1 AW meeting on winter saturday afternoons seems like the right balance to me
at least 1 northern jumping card essential
at least 1 northern jumping card essential
The field sizes are very small.And now we are getting race clashes which pisses punters off no end and has a marked negative effect on liqudity and betting turnover.
4 NH meetings simply does not work.
4 NH meetings simply does not work.
Bangor may not be competing for runners with Newbury but it is competing with Newcastle and to a lesser extent Doncaster.
I've had a good look through today's programmes BB, and I can't see any races at Bangor that were clashing with other races elsewhere so can you explain how they're competing for runners?
The truth, if you'd care to admit it, is that Bangor would have had exactly the same shape of card no matter which day of the week you staged it....it has nothing to do with the fact it's on a Saturday!
The truth, if you'd care to admit it, is that Bangor would have had exactly the same shape of card no matter which day of the week you staged it....it has nothing to do with the fact it's on a Saturday!
Come off it.
The main reason for tiny fields on this card and at other meetings is that there are more fixtures than are required for competitive racing.
For example, the was a 2m NH novive hurdle at Bangor and a 2m NH maiden hurdle at Newcastle catering for the same broad pool of horses.
And it is not just about today. There would not be (for example) 5-runner bumpers and (as seen at Donny today) 6-runner handicap hurdles if there was a sensible amount of racing to cater for the available pool of horses.
But, no. The BHA rightly comments on the need to increase field sizes and then fails to take the one measure that would ensure the aim.
The main reason for tiny fields on this card and at other meetings is that there are more fixtures than are required for competitive racing.
For example, the was a 2m NH novive hurdle at Bangor and a 2m NH maiden hurdle at Newcastle catering for the same broad pool of horses.
And it is not just about today. There would not be (for example) 5-runner bumpers and (as seen at Donny today) 6-runner handicap hurdles if there was a sensible amount of racing to cater for the available pool of horses.
But, no. The BHA rightly comments on the need to increase field sizes and then fails to take the one measure that would ensure the aim.
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