utter disgrace from geraghty there

Pulling hard early did not help , but having got there going the better he blew it by stopping it going on instead of trying to win cheekily

Logged in to the forum knowing full well the pocket-talkers would be having a rant and boy was I right!

Fact: Bob's Worth and Simonsig  each received a fantastic ride.

Fact2: Betfair, for humanitarian reasons, should consider closing the accounts of these pocket-talking clowns, who constantly demonstrate they are incapable of objective analysis and are really not adult enough to be allowed to bet!

Imbeciles!

i don't think geraghty  was the only one at fault at the start , two other riders felt it prudent to give jobsworth a 20 length start.

Spot on Carrot!

Albert Bartlett, RSA, Hennessy, Lexus, Gold Cup winner 11/1

mug neptune bridle merchant off for years 5/2

its threads like this why jockeys say "how many winners have you ridden?" with very good reason

Essex, this is public forum where views are expressed and its healthy that we don't all agree on the matters discussed.

good haul ghost

Don't know if anyone noticed but there was £29.000 bet on Bobs Worth at 16.0 / 16.5

20l start,pulling his head off all the way round,schooled in public, oh yesas gerrity always says when he sits on a top class 2 miler of hendersons, will make a lovely chaser, when he could have won the champion 2 years ago, but gerrity had his champion mount booked already, cant ride both, lets send him chasing, another top class hendersn horse ruined

oneyallbeenwaiting4 07 Nov 15 14:58
Albert Bartlett, RSA, Hennessy, Lexus, Gold Cup winner 11/1

mug neptune bridle merchant off for years 5/2


so you backed the gold cup winner over 20f/hurdles...between the 2 of then, the race suited the 2nd better..

the story of the race is Bobs Worth, hes a true Champion, Simonsig is a talking horse, disgrace the headline is him finishing second, made Harchibald look genuine there

talking horse that won a Neptune and Arkle before getting injured

dont be silly

beat Baily Green and His Excellency in the "Arkle"

Fingal Bay exposed Simonsig, about the only decent horse he ever ran against

bridle merchant bottler thats won 10 races out of 12 and fell in one of the other 2 , what a load of nonsense

^^ For once I agree wholeheartedly with one of your posts.

pocket talk rife with this one, clearly the mugs were lured in by the talk and smooth beatings of poor animals, Bobs Worth CV makes Simonsig look like a claimer

^^ That was for OYABWF.

151 rated this animal bobs worth

FFS stop posting between my posts

Bobs Worth went unbeaten over hurdles didn't he.

bobs worth the old boy run his race, he don't know the odds the bookies priced him

TRD.Racing 07 Nov 15 14:50 
I'm so glad some of you come on Betfair,please keep using the site


looks like TRD cleaned up again..still waiting to see a bet or a p&l posted though.

Bizarre comment by Henderson who says Jerry McGrath has done a great job in training getting Simonsig to drop his bridle. Then why did the horse pull like a train? And why then were you afraid to run it over fences knowing as you said it would pull as it did?

all jockeys are fuccking knobheads who think they are the bravest of the brave because they sit on top of a horse. its the horses ability that wins races not the spackers who ride them !!

What a bunch of armchair jockeys.

I followed Bobs Worth to the well and he has cost me. Backed Simonsig today but the old boy is hard to pass. Horse had every chance if good enough, he simply wasn't today. So I lost. Take it on the chin and move on as both jockeys gave their mounts good rides.

Both horses are G1 winners and the mud slinging from those who have never ridden or owned a horse is frankly embarrassing.

so now owners as well can judge a ride but not punters

will have to wait on Big Mart for the verdict then

I mentioned owners with regard to the mud slinging of G1 horses being called donkey's, non triers etc.

Horse blew up,would have blew up earlier if he had went earlier,and got beat further,wouldn't have got past,Bob's worth always finds off the bridle,I thought it was a great comeback,and I backed siminsig,same people slaggin Geraghty would be  saying fancy getting into a battle with Bob's worth that far out,ran a cracker considering the injury it had,the favourite was asked to make 7 length up on 2 stayers,the worst ride in the race was on purple bay !

Nov 7, 2015 -- 3:40PM, cufcno1 wrote:

Horse blew up,would have blew up earlier if he had went earlier,and got beat further,wouldn't have got past,Bob's worth always finds off the bridle,I thought it was a great comeback,and I backed siminsig,same people slaggin Geraghty would be

I cant see what others see in Hughes. Just another O'Regan from what I see of him. Posing yesterday as well.

i thin k only the most idiotic person on this forum could suggest that a horse with simonsigs winning record  is a dog,despite being beaten today he remains a fine horse.maybe he hasn't beaten the greatest of horses when  wining his biggest races  but he's totally genuine and barring  injuries hell win more.if he had a string of  2nd places maybe doubts about his resolution  would have some validity but as i said only the stupidest person would call his courage into question

oddly enough the most idiotic person has called him a dog.makes me wonder how they can type whilst wearing a straight jacket.

the trainer was happy enough with the run; off the track for 970 days - as good as could be expected in the conditions - give some praise to the winner for finding more in that ground

geordie, in truth even tho bobsworth has never really liked soft ground he's always been a thorough stayer and being given  the gift of a 20 length start by 3 riders was always  going to assist him.im not saying i ever intended to back him in running but his price collapsed very quickly in running due to him getting such an easy lead.he was 12/1 pre race and less than 3/1 in the blink of an eye, personally i thought that was a slight overreaction but it may well have turned out to be  a big factor in him winning .

Wasn't a betting race for me. I would have slightly cheesed off if I had backed Simonsig however. Not because he wasn't hard on him in the finish (as you would not expect him to be with a star horse coming back from injury) but because the race was given away at the start and the effort of making up the ground combined with not settling took a toll on him. He wouldn't have pulled any harder if he had raced in touch in all likelihood and would probably have won.

To be fair to Geraghty [and with Henderson more so than with some trainers] his main consideration is not for punters but for the connections  - often a grey area between schooling in public and not being too hard on a horse - esp bearing in mind that most of these top trainers can get a horse ready at home if they really want to - difficult for stewards / joking club to police

the trouble is where you draw the line , so a jockey like vitor santos is easy to ban for 70 days but this would never happen to a high profile jockey as he's esteemed to be too good to not achieve a horses best placing which is what the ruling is . barry geraghty is a top jockey but as a one off ride there he was not obtaining the best placing for the horse and instead (rightly or wrongly) looking after it.  an all weather race with the trainer having a 1-2 there would have been under massive scrutiny . of course todays race wasn't crooked in any way,  in my opinion its questionable whether the horse achieved its best position though , committed from the turn the race would have been over and even if simonsig then faltered and came back to bobs worth at least then punters would have been satisfied with the ride.

Didn't have a penny on this, but was an awful awful ride. If I'd backed it would be fuming. Says it all when even rides like that still have some who try to defend the jock.

stu if that was an apprentice or a less experienced jockey up today people would never in a million years be saying it was given a good ride , the jockey would be getting slaughtered 100pc

guys it was a schooling lesson which due to connections will be allowed

tim6 exactly and thats where the problem lies

frankie on foundation a few weeks back was as bad as I've seen in 40 years , gosden/dettori face the music , not an earthly so therefore I'm confused how anyone can ever be pulled up again

... hindsight is a wonderful thing...


.. look at the races N H is campaigning them for...  hth !

Last week Barry was the greatest at presenting them at an obstacle. Now he's a disgrace. Just another normal week on the armchair jockeys pocket talk discussion group. Thankfully it wasn't Sam twiston Davies, otherwise the forum would be down because of all the red faced pot bellied armchair jockeys wanting to post abuse. You couldn't get your legs over a settee never mind a horse.

He never gave the horse its best chance of winning- i never back horses from henderson stable but i would be fuming if i had backed simonsig.

Its the dodgiest ride ive ever seen in a NH race, if Barry doesnt face action over that then id be surprised.

I was standing on the rail about half a furlong from finish. Simonsig was placed in the perfect position to go on and pass however despite encouragement -no energy,nothing left and as the trainer pointed out used too much energy in early running.Will be better next time around-it had been off for a long time,heavy ground and also had the race not collapsed neither of these two would have been in the running.The TV never tells the real story-go racing,get close to the action-not drinking in the stands- and you will learn what it`s really all about.

Reading some of the comments on here is like being back in the bookies 25 years ago when the ten bob One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest extras were exhorting jockeys to whip the fuccker and flecking the screen with their saliva. If the horse had been good enough to go by it would have taken Geraghty there. He gave it a crack with the stick and Bob's Worth pulled away because that horse kept finding all the way up the straight. That is the reality. Save the wide eyed conspiracy theories and bullshiit for when you've got your tin foil hats on.

Big question marks over a number of Geraghty rides this year (All JP owned - Banned for one of them) but nothing untoward with this one imo.

shouldn't of run him on the ground then if not race fit

Nov 7, 2015 -- 8:10PM, SIR_Bond wrote:

shouldn't of run him on the ground then if not race fit

That`s a bit like saying footy players who are not match fit should not play.As in all sports you can do lots in training but in the real event more may be needed than can be obtained on the gallops-in this case it was.

Either the net is out or you have entered a new higher state of stupidity never before seen Bondy.

apart from giving so much ground away at the start, i cant think of anything BG could have done differently that would have got that horse home in front today...not sure what others wanted him to do? ask him sooner and he empties sooner...after the last you had a 2-2½miler that had run freely after long absence trying to reel in a Gold Cup winner whose stamina was really kicking in...you do the math, as they say

If they had a clue they'd not start these types of threads Duncan.

im amazed at some of the comments on here..i was there today and at the last hurdle first time round simon was pulling like a train..he was going to struggle to get home on that ground and after being off for 3 yrs?..the jockey was never going to murder him fto..as punters we have to see whats in front of us..bob is a 3 m horse who outstayed the other who runs over 2m?..on heavy ground?..to be giving geraghty stick shows naivety imho..

must be some very wealthy in-running players on here tonight, 1.07 in-running and half this thread knew it was a dog and wouldn't go past.  do the rest of us a favour, post yer bets and show us how easy this game can be.

this ^^^

similar scenario in Denman Chase at Newbury in 2012, Geraghty on Burton Port (rec. 10lbs)  beaten half a length by Long Run - many thought Burton Port got a less than vigourous ride and conspiracy theoy was that he was under stable instructions not to go by.

When they met in Gold Cup a few weeks later off levels, Long Run finished 5 lengths in front of Burton Port (albeit in 3rd and 4th).

Whatever the rights and wrongs, Henderson gave a clear indication of likely tactics in his pre race quotes: 'It's a means to an end. Everyone has to undestand what we're trying to do. I have to get runs into them.' Nobody is forced to have a bet - though I accept the race would be of much less interest if nobody actually did!

The race fell apart before the start with 5 runners from 3 stables for a £19k first prize and then fell apart again when it started  - Royal Boy (who'd been off nearly 2 years himself) fell, Commissioned was never gonna like the ground after 10 mm of rain overnight/this morning and the flat bred fave, who had been beaten at 9/4 and 10/11 on his only two previous starts on ground officially described as soft, compounded that by missing the break. I think Henderson was expecting the ground to be good and Purple Bay to win when he declared on Monday! One of the worst races of the day to have a bet in for me (thought Simonsig was most likely winner)

Today merely proved BW and Simonsig are both well and have four legs each in the right places, would n't be too keen to back either of them next time out solely on the evidence of today particularly as both likely to race over the bigger obstacles next time out.

What were people expecting exactly after 3 years off the track. Get a grip ffs.

Hulk absolutely spot! As for those saying they were at the races and he couldn't get pass BW on the run in. It should never have come to that, BG should have sent the horse for home when going well in-between 2 out to 1 out. No, instead he wanted to look clever. Did he think he could just cruise by BW towards the finish? That's not giving BW much respect is it? Shockingly bad ride IMO.

Post you bet Layingistheonlyway!

Post your bet Layingistheonlyway!

Didn't have a bet in the race. Heavy ground and been off for 3 years. It was pretty obvious Geraghty knew there wasn't much in the tank on the run in.  Those of you saying he should have kicked on are clueless, he didn't get home as it was.

How much energy does a horse save by being reigned back on a tight hold (and yet continuing to pull hard for 2 miles), rather than being allowed to race more freely & gaining distance over the field?

That for me has always been the question. I would prefer them to be allowed to get their freeness out of their system, and then be allowed to settle on their own accod, than constantly over-racing for most of the distance.

just heard bg on atr ,whatever the rights and wrongs of yesterdays race ,there,s no way bg new he was hanging on to fresh air all the way up the home straight,if bobs worth had dogged it,needed the run badly,went to fast etc,etc,and bg had won cosy do you think hendo,bg and co would be on here today saying it was flattered by his win,had nothing left to give,only won because of the others etc ,etc,cause not he,d have been back to his best, chelt here we come etc, like the post above the best bet is probably to leave them both alone next time out

Surely any bet on the race was fraught with difficulties given the profiles of the horses? 2 returning after lengthy breaks, one sold for £8000, another unproven over trip on the ground and to compound the situation two trainers doubly represented?

Better opportunities elsewhere.

Regardless of the way the finish unfolded, why on earth would Henderson run them both in the same race ?  One a speed horse, the other a thorough stayer. Clearly BW would want it a test of stamina that would mean that S would be subject to a much harder race than ideal on it's return. It was a nothing race - why run both ?  It's not as if it was the Gold Cup where Kauto Star and Denman had to take each other on.

cos they both needed an outing, which they've had

Not easy to find races to run horses with handicap marks as high as that pair. Got to take the opportunities to run them when they are available.

Nov 7, 2015 -- 5:36PM, ghostlygunner wrote:

the trouble is where you draw the line , so a jockey like vitor santos is easy to ban for 70 days but this would never happen to a high profile jockey as he's esteemed to be too good to not achieve a horses best placing which is what the ruling is . barry geraghty is a top jockey but as a one off ride there he was not obtaining the best placing for the horse and instead (rightly or wrongly) looking after it.

simonsig does nothing off the bridle, his bridle ratio is severe, wouldnt have mattered if he asked him 2 out, the response would have been the same

Not easy to find races but far from impossible.

Where else could he have run them? Assuming he wanted a run in early November.

oneyallbeenwaiting4 08 Nov 15 13:08
simonsig does nothing off the bridle, his bridle ratio is severe, wouldnt have mattered if he asked him 2 out, the response would have been the same

Where did you get the proof of that, it does it on the bridle as there is not much that can get anywhere near it when fit!

exactly a year this week and we have another valbro valdat on our hands horses only do what they are asked to do, untill there asked to do something different,ie VV and sovereign debt to name 2 high profile horses from this year

There are plenty of races that Bob's Worth could have run in. Did it run in the same hurdle race in each of the last 2 years ?

Its never ran against much so its lack of energy off the bridle is rarely exposed

There are plenty of races that Bob's Worth could have run in. Did it run in the same hurdle race in each of the last 2 years ?


They wanted to get a prep run in for the Hennessy, which means it would pretty much have to be this weekend at latest (next weekend too close)...in previous years BW hasnt reappeared before the last week in November

Overall Mr Geraghty will do you more good turns than bad.

Not recently...2 very dodgy rides in Ireland and now this debacle...

It wouldn't go past it ffs,if a horse runs with the choke out over 2 and a bit mile,it won't have a kick,only goes one pace !

I hope you laid it for plenty when he loomed up on the bridle then Cufcno1. At 1.07 you must now have an absolute full betfair bank! You and the others on this thread who sound so confident the horse wouldn't get home after pulling so hard early on must all have cleaned up on the race, right?

Full bank this full bank that,they are the in words on this forum,I was out when the race was on so no I didn't lay it,I did back it though,watching the replay the alarm bells were ringing a furlong out,stayer in front that always finds,horse had pulled all the way,you could see it happening so there will have been people who mopped up on here,I didn't.

what about THE START OF THE RACE........brings the game into DISREPUTE

Didn't bet, but Simonsig had schooling in public written all over it from the entry stage, Henderson does this all the time. Simonsig never put in the race to win at any stage, and no real effort from the saddle to win the race. The plan came together perfectly for Henderson, Simonsig had a nice easy reintroduction to racing, and should improve significantly in the future. Henderson/Geraghty couldnt care less about punters money, as long as his own money and that of the horses connections are safeguarded. Henderson does manage to ruin quite a few good horses by trying to be too clever schooling horses in public who instead should be winning the races they are being schooled in.....

It was just about level for the last 2 furlongs so how was it not put in the race to win?

sickoflayinwinners • November 7, 2015 4:00 PM GMT
geordie, in truth even tho bobsworth has never really liked soft ground he's always been a thorough stayer and being given  the gift of a 20 length start by 3 riders was always  going to assist him.im not saying i ever intended to back him in running but his price collapsed very quickly in running due to him getting such an easy lead.he was 12/1 pre race and less than 3/1 in the blink of an eye, personally i thought that was a slight overreaction but it may well have turned out to be  a big factor in him winning .
Report Barton Bank • November 7, 2015 4:42 PM GMT
Wasn't a betting race for me. I would have slightly cheesed off if I had backed Simonsig however. Not because he wasn't hard on him in the finish (as you would not expect him to be with a star horse coming back from injury) but because the race was given away at the start and the effort of making up the ground combined with not settling took a toll on him. He wouldn't have pulled any harder if he had raced in touch in all likelihood and would probably have won.
Report Gagging • November 7, 2015 4:57 PM GMT
To be fair to Geraghty [and with Henderson more so than with some trainers] his main consideration is not for punters but for the connections  - often a grey area between schooling in public and not being too hard on a horse - esp bearing in mind that most of these top trainers can get a horse ready at home if they really want to - difficult for stewards / joking club to police

The three most sensible posts on here.

The start was akin to asking Usain Bolt to give the opposition 5 metre start in an Olympic 100m final. Even the great man can't do that.

Put it this way, if Henderson or Geraghty had told the public beforehand they were going to give Bobs Worth a 15-20 length start, would you be a backer or layer of Simonsig at 5-2? Would you be a backer or layer of Bobs Worth ad double figure odds? The race from a betting perspective was only known to the Henderson connections beforehand and the behaviour of the jockey at the start, possibly trainer too if he condoned it, is tantamount to bringing the sport into disrepute.

It was clear schooling in public, something for which lesser trainers/jocks would have been hauled in and given severe punishment.

I leave you with this. If this was a Grade 1 chase over 2 1/2m worth £500k to the winner at the Cheletenham Festival (or a JP Mac owned handicap job with a few million of the bookies cash riding on it), do you think Geraghty will still be giving away 15-20 lengths at the start on a "hard-pulling" horse, irrespective of whether it had a 3 year layoff?

I've seen some nonsense on this forum over the years, but most of the comments on here are eye-watering.
No financial interest in the race myself and see not a jot wrong with anything that happened. Three years off the track for a star horse, on sapping ground and some of the clowns here think some conspiracy was taking place.
A finely judged performance by Geraghty; close enough to win, but found out close home. He wanted cover for a hard pulling horse, thus not wanting to chase Bob's Worth from the off (and neither did the Ferguson horses).End of.
The thought that this horse should have been given a gung-ho, all out to win ride shows astonishing ignorance. I suspect, had that happened, he'd have fallen in a heap much earlier than he did, and they may not have any horse left for tomorrow.

Faux heen, the start was messy all right but naturally BG, knowing how free simonsig was going to the start, wanted to anchor him to get cover. From the moment the tape went up they were spread out like washing so getting cover went out the window.He raced way too keenly, far closer to the pace than BG wanted. Had he jumped off on level terms he more than likely would have bolted(rather than merely pulled too hard) from the start.It certainly didnt look like schooling in public to me and it wasnt the tactics that beat him, it was his own exhuberance

All this debate must have Ferguson pissing himself seeing the eye has been taken off Purple Bay who was the biggest non trier in the race.

I'm sure the owners of the horse were absolutely delighted with the ride. And that's all that really matters.

A finely judged performance by Geraghty; close enough to win, but found out close home. He wanted cover for a hard pulling horse, thus not wanting to chase Bob's Worth from the off (and neither did the Ferguson horses).End of.
The thought that this horse should have been given a gung-ho, all out to win ride shows astonishing ignorance. I suspect, had that happened, he'd have fallen in a heap much earlier than he did, and they may not have any horse left for tomorrow.

Cyclops, don't disagree with most of that except it was not a strongly run race and Geraghty would have had better chance of settling Simonsig a couple of lengths off the distant leader rather than 10-15 which only lit up the red bull in Simonsig even more imo. I often think the best way to settle a hard puller is in front anyway (though most trainers / jocks seem to disagree).

From the owners' perspective, both horses had a nice run out, hopefully they were sound the next day and ready to go again in the future as you say.

But from the perspective of punters who staked over a million on the race nationwide, the race was a farce and nothing more than a schooling exercise. If Henderson or any other trainer want to treat the racecourse like this, suggest they really ask the clerk for permission to exercise their horses after racing finished or the next day. This showed utter disrepect for punters without whom there would be no prizemoney.

But Henderson's finished 1-2! How can they be accused of schooling in public? As a previous poster noted, no-one has asked any questions about the Ferguson horses, one of whom was hot favourite.
Anyone who backed in the race should surely have known that it was likely to be muddling and that Simonsig had been off the course for three years and 2was having a prep run before returning to fences. If they did their dough heavily, you really have to ask questions of them, rather than connections.

Just an aside but BJG gave up (or asked to get off) a nice few rides for JP at Naas that day and missed a winner for Noel Meade to boot,I backed Simonsig as I thought his pure class would see him through even allowing for the break.The horse was never going to be flogged on the day...