is Golden Horn a cert?

no such thing as a cert in racing.......... D'OH

why should he be 1/5?

because he would be beaten once in 5 attempts at winning this race?

lol

should never question a pro

because he would be beaten once in 5 attempts at winning this race?

Then he shouldn't be 1/5...

Sorry 1/5 is one chance in six of losing and five out of six of winning.

You Maths is incorrect but you are to be applauded for at least thinking in terms of odds. If you think he is a 1/5 shot then yes you should back him at whatever he is at the moment 2/5 I think. Do not be afraid of odds on shots, I make 15 to 20 pts per year from my odds on bets.

here that FELTFAIR? the great Olias applauds you. well done. have a lollipop.

Thank you Duncan have one yourself

a few heavy odds on shots beaten in this in the past,authorised anyone? he prob will win but 2/5?   if the grey gatsby gets the race run to suit hes well capable of beating him..

The question is how capable numerically ?

the odds suggest golden horn is 2 1/2 times more likely to win than not?  id be slow taking that price..remember tgg beat australia last yr and should have won at ascot this year..

I'd still be lumping on if he was 1/50
Look at the opponents.

kavvie Ryan Moore rode a beauty at Leop to beat Australia(yes JOB was poor)

Can Spencer get the same momentum against an astute Frankie on GH?

Bound to be cat and mouse, not sure if Spencer is the man to be on here.
For that reason GH is the cert the OP alludes to.

bookie love people like you..lump on away but your not looking logically at it..the grey gatsby is a group1 performer.won g1s in france and ireland last year..beat the best of last years 3yrs olds.how good are this years 3yr olds?this is traditionally the first clash of them against older horses..we await with intrest...

Just to add Jack Hobbs is now rated the same as The Grey Gatsby.

Golden hormone is a great.
Close to sea the stars.

Kavvie

The bookies love punters like you who follow these `unlucky` types.

Golden Horn does have much of Sea The Stars about him. I agree Money tree. The Cap Cross stamp perhaps.

*Cape Cross

With five runners and not obvious front runner the race will be tactical  There is talk about Golden Horn making the running  and that would be far from ideal for a horse who has sat off a decent pace in all four starts to date.  The Eclipse can be a graveyard for Derby winners (Authorised got beat at 4/7 with Dettori on top) and there have been many others.  Beware of The Grey Gatsby as with Spencer you have the ideal horse and jockey to pounce at the death.

Having said that York and particularly Epson was really impressive where his turn of foot to defeat stablemate Jack Hobbs has been franked by the runner-up.  The problem is the price and I have played at 1/2 with Bet365 with the aim of hedging some off at 1.36 on here if I can.

BTW The Grey Gatsby win over Australia is misleading as Joseph O' Brien gave Australia at appalling ride and that ride along with the ride on Gleneagles in France undoubtedly was the reason Ryan Moore was promoted to No.1 jockey at Coolmore.

Is the other gosden one not a front runner?

But GH stays 12f so well, so why nor front run. No point getting into a tactical 2f kick for home if you are behind and hit a flat spot like he did in the Derby. Frankie said post race that all the concern was his stamina but as the race unfolded a bigger issue was getting him going(flat spot).

No MT.

Fair point.
To be a real great he will have to make all.

There have been lots of posts regarding jockeys, horses and others being overrated. This horse is underrated IMO. Today, I believe he will pulverize the opposition.

I remember the 1968 Derby winner Sir Ivor being beaten by the previous year's Derby winner Royal Palace and also the French classic winner Taj Dewan. 3 year olds have to be the best of their generation to win with an 11lb allowance.

Money Tree cost me thousands!!
Is the other Gosden one not a front runner?

Exactly the concern is Jack Hobbs set it up for Golden Horn in the Derby and Elm Park set it up for GH in the Dante.

Angel Gabrial

Golden Horn took time to get going at York and Epsom and I think you are right Dettori will kick early enough in the Eclipe.  The Grey Gatsby and Jamie Spencer are about the worst combination for Golden Horn if there is only about 3lb between them (which performances to-date suggest) as tactics could easily turnaround 3lb.

SA

All that being said the door can be shut very easily at Sandown, you can see Spencer weaving about looking for a gap.
Regarding the ratings, after only 4 races has more room to move upwards.

Also Authorized won his race on the far side, was just beaten by a freak ride by Ryan Moore who raced alone.

I promise to stop posting if Golden Horn is beaten. Not pulled up injured, heaven forbid, but beaten fairly and squarely. That would suit some on here!

NO   ITS THE age thing  3 years v 4 years
they aint a 3 year old who can beat him         but today  hes the youngster of the field   2/5   ?? they will be better 2/5 shots .... lets see   its a no bet or lay for me  ...just enjoy

Apparently no horse has ever done Dante-Derby-Eclipse in the same season.  I didn't know that!

3year old get an 11lbs   weight for age   other wise they would have no chance

First time today then for the treb.

I'd like to have seen him run in the Irish Derby. Think Gosden must rate this animal very highly to take the older ones on so soon. Where do you think he's next race will be IF he wins ? Will the Ascot race be to soon ?

2/5 fav ...... Gosden  is on record  saying it should be evens .. but John is a trainer  not a grasping bookmaker ..

Gosden always over respects the opposition.

2/5 is the right price

AG.........i agree......difficult to see any of these giving a derby winner 11 ibs

Well im happy with my position lol 8/13 the good thing, 4/1 + 3 places TGG and a hedge off giving me +160 the field

Thats why i love antepost

I do think he is a cert, and expect a 3-5L victory, but I hate Sandown ,not a place I would ever run a Champion, Sea The Stars did it, but already a proven level of form over the mile.Remember we must,  the Derby form is 12f. But hey not such a bad price is it!

Gatsby is good enough to concede the weight for age allowance and has the right credentials in winning the French Derby...

look  ok in the paddock .... so its a cert .. lump on

I'm on Western Hymn to finish top 3 at 2.06

hope the Gatsby gets well and truly stuffed. ryan has been Shiite all season so to win a big money prize would not sit right with me.

gl if you have a bet

I bet 4/9    the rest  pick your price  ... chuck it in the bag  if  if  I get it wrong   pay with a smile

I thought Nashwan did it unless you mean no colt has ever done it?

making the running :o

frankie pacemaking for WH

excellent win...

GG every chance

ever the phrase 'he did it the hard way' was true, its just then

Proper  proper horse
Proper race

A REAL  CHAMP    zip was on

Great performance, he was only clicking into gear passing the line.

He's mullered 'em.

congrats backers.

fair dues backers..he touched 2.6  i never thought he would lose it up the straight?

Think he hit a flat spot again as well.

outstayed the 2nd
NO superstar on that performance
'a brilliant performance'Persaud F off u total bellend
i wasn't uber imptessed

I'm happy with my 2.06 on western hymn to finish top 3 ;)

I dont want to see him front run again.

no, wasnt pretty was it.

He wont Sonko, but there was no pace and he was the only one that stays beyond

one happy punter congratulating dettori maybe he had 50p win on him????

he's good,game and he stays really well
much better suited to a bigger field coming off the pace but he's gonna scare off a lot of opposition save for the Arc
so he may be in similar races albeit not 5 runner ones

I dont want to see him front run again.


why not? settled perfectly well and won Eclipse by 3½l & 4½l...what's the prob?

Scare off opposition for the Arc?

He put save for the Arc AG

johnnythebull
04 Jul 15 15:50

outstayed the 2nd


TGG stays every inch of 10f..outqualityed him

glad some can read on here Steamship

Ok, my bad....he is a comedian though, i thought it was another wind up. My eyes.

Sorry Johnny

outstayed him more quickly Dunc my man

i actually thought he was better suited by a mile and a qtr given his turn of foot but he's a true mile and a half horse with speed..v good horse
if he wants to win the Arc do NOT go 4 the KG

Dancing Brave did Johnny....go for them all.

kills a lot of them tho' AG but he looks smth special

Its worth saying  this  winner   is the first horse to win the Derby and the ECLIPSE  has a 3 year old

jach hobbs no mug either
embarrasment of riches 4 J G
personally think he can win the KG with J H

how many have won Derby and Eclipse as 4yos? 

Nashwan won both as a 3 year old

Its worth saying  this  winner   is the first horse to win the Derby and the ECLIPSE  has a 3 year old


Are you sure?

STS?
Nashwan,,,,

What they must have meant was first horse to win Dante-Derby-Eclipe all as a 3YO.

What todays race has shown is Golden Horse is genuine mile and a half G1 horse.  The King George G00d-Frim will be perfect, Arc all depends on the ground.

why does winning 10f Eclipse by 3½l from top 10f performer show he's a genuine 12f horse?

I thought he won today by outstaying The Grey Gatsby.  From the front and doing it the difficult way he pulled three lengths clear in the end and wasn't stopping.  King George has to be the right choice now.

I agree storm alert...most impressive performance considering the pace they were going up the Sandown hill

Totally agree, it was a better form than the visuals, i think frankie was tring to coax him home but he had to get a bit serious.

TGG wants 1m4f imo, so the form is good.

IF GH turns up in the KG it will be a very small field, i cant think of any contenders ?

Maybe i can see that stoute G2 horse turn up, unless jack hobbs or a french horse turns up it will as today.