Kirtling - one for the old timers

Kirtling is a 4-y-old

It was indeed a 2yo of 1980 (Marwell's generation) but it was a colt!

I remember Kirtling but I remember Marwell more as the first time I went to Ascot for the Royal meeting; when it was Tuesday to Friday and the heath on the Saturday; Marwell was the only winner I backed all week, it was in sir Edmund Loder's colours.

I stopped at the Burnham beeches that year, I think some footy team stay there now.

Geoff sure knew how to train fillies. He wasn't to bad with sprinters as well !!' Top trainer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bniTyDoILUE

1981 Guardian Classic Trial

Your collective memories playing tricks on you old timers.........

It was Harry Wragg...Geoff took over in Teenoso's 3yo year - 1983

Cheers Navel my mistake. Just trying to remember if the wragg's trained any for the sheikh ?

Can't recall any off hand...now I'm desperately trying to remember something with those maroon silks as there were often a few odd ones with smaller stables - I think Bahoor was trained by Frankie Durr...there's a blast from the past guys

1984 Horses in Training.

Geoff Wragg had 74 horses.

NO Arab owners - Trained predominantly for  - the Moller family - Sir Robin McAlpine - Sir Philip Oppenheimer - A E Oppenheimer - J L C Pearce

Bahoor - 4-yr-old in 1984 - trained by Guy Harwood

148 horses listed in training.

Sheikh Mo NOT listed as an owner.- Some other Arabs were -
such as - Sheikh Fahad - Pribce Faisal - Prince J#Khaled - M Al Maktoum - Mr A Salman

Sir Robin McAlpine was his colours a green check?

^ McAlpine TARTAN.

ah cheers

Onlooker - shít! Frankie Durr RODE it didn't he? Again!

Afraid not - Navel -  You are thinking of another horse that Frankie Durr rode.... and you have got somethinh similar buzzing around in the back of my mind, too.

BAHOOR was ridden by Starkey in both it's 2-yr-old races.

Won 7 times from 10 runs as a 3-yr-old - ridden twice by Starkey - but ran mostly in Apprentice races, ridden by Guy Landau - and a couple of Amateur races, winning once for Mr Jim Wilson.

Ended career running twice as a 4-yr-old - winning both races - culminating in the Roseberry Handicap at Kempton - ridden both times by Guy Landau, claiming 7lb.

I'm finished mate...I'd sure like to know what I've confused that with - I'm not usually as way off target as I've been on this thread.

PS - Guy Landau...is that the Lean Ar Argaidh Landau?

Onlooker - M Al Maktoum on that Harwood list IS certainly Sheikh Mohammed, and pretty sure the horse wore his old colours in the 1984 Rosebery.

Ah - Therein lies the answer - blackbarn.

The winning owner for the 1984 Roseberry is, as you say,  given as Sheikh Mohammed.

It was your Rosebery link that did it Onlooker. I was there that day

Nice to be reminded of Marwell

Major wins
Molecomb Stakes (1980)
Flying Childers Stakes (1980)
Cheveley Park Stakes (1980)
Fred Darling Stakes (1981)
Gus Demmy Memorial (1981)
King's Stand Stakes (1981)
July Cup (1981)
Prix de l'Abbaye (1981)

Awards
Timeform rating 133 (1981)
Timeform top-rated two-year-old filly (1980)
Top-rated European two-year-old filly (1980)
Timeform top-rated three-year-old filly (1981)
Top-rated European three-year-old filly (1981)

Navel, you might be thinking of a horse Frankie trained for Sheikh Mo rather than rode for him, one horse that would fit that criteria is Noalto, who ran third in the Jersey in 1981 ridden by Greville.
Other trainers who trained for him that didn't immediately spring to mind with me were Fulke Johnson-Houghton, Ian Balding and Guy Harwood, those being in addition to the obvious guys like Hills, Stoute, Cumani, Cecil, Brittain,  O'Brien, Oxx and Cumani.

CL - thanks buddy...Noalto certainly does fit the bill - I (think) I can recall him lashing home

CL - thanks buddy...Noalto certainly does fit the bill - I (think) I can recall him lashing home

...in third place behind King's Lake & To Agori Mou in the Sussex - mystery solved

I always like to think I have a fa

I always like to think I have a fa

I always like to think I have a fa

...fair enough excuse when I make a balls up!

PS - Onlooker...what's up with my PC posting half a message before I press send?

^ Is your GLASS half-full - or half-EMPTY ...

- perhaps that is the problem. 

Empty...but it'll be full again just after I press send

Wragg trained a few for Sheikh Mo in the nineties I think one was called Larissa,the only other owners I can think of are Moller, Openheimer, Mcalpine and Pearce.

Is that the only horse anyone can find?

PS - did Edmund Loder have any more? AND was he any relation to the David the trainer?

Cassandra Go & Owington were two group winners for Geoff that didn't sport the colours of the usual suspects.

And of course Edmund Loder's Marling.

Lord Seymour ran in the Loder silks for Stoute, was fancied for the Middle Park that Known Fact won, and had been a bit over hyped - in the end Stoute had a better 2 year old that year in Final Straw, in the James Wigan colours

I think Sir Edmund Loder had Trojan Crown and Persian Anthem with Wragg.

David Loder is Sir Edmund's son I think.

Remember Dragon Dancer for Wragg being  2nd in Sir Percy's  Derby was the highest rated Maiden for ages (did it ever win?)

Yes Habin. Won a Listed race at Windsor one evening. I think it was its sole win.

habin67 24 Jun 15 22:46 

Remember Dragon Dancer for Wragg being  2nd in Sir Percy's  Derby was the highest rated Maiden for ages (did it ever win?)
-----------

Dragon Dancer was STILL a MAIDEN when it was beaten in a PHOTO for the 2006 Derby - being a Short-Head.

It did not win until a further 6 runs (it's 11yh race) some 15 months later.

It ran, and was beaten, a further 4 times.

Re the Loders - David Loder (Trainer) is the son of Simon Loder (Gardener Clapton Court Somerset) not Edmund Loder, although he is related to the latter.  The confusion may in part be due to the similarity of the Racing colours.  Sir Edmund's being the famous Yellow, Dark Blue Sleeves and Black Cap (Marwell etc) and David's being the same but with Blue and Yellow halved sleeves.

David is the great nephew of Sir Edmund Loder.

Edmund was the nephew of Giles Harold Loder (owned Derby winner Spion Kop).

Giles Harold was the nephew of Major Eustace Loder, who bred and owned Pretty Polly.

Thanks Blackbarn and ged.