Oisin Murphy............ My Man...........

Of course I'll say well done and wish the kid well throughout his career, I've got nothing against him and he's obviously a talented jockey and I have said as much all along.

The only thing I ever took issue with you easygold which and I've repeated to you numerous times now was your specific claim that you predicted he will be a future Champion Jockey, to which I responded with that a lot will depend on how he gets on when riding at levels against more experienced jockeys or apprentices who can still claim once he lost his own claim, and then whether he gets the right job in the future to help him become CJ. Those points are still as valid today as when I first made them.

Plus whilst not taking anything away from Oisin Murphy, the horse won by 4½L because it was good enough to and would have done so with any number of other jockeys on aboard, including no doubt Andrea Atzeni if he had been on it.

No Ima.......... you are a liar........... you keep having a pop at him...... the season only started and you were on with your usual crap...... he is not riding as many winners.... I soon put you in your place.....

The kid is 19........ and you still can`t see it....... you keep thinking that because other riders fine it hard after they lose there claim....... blah,blah......

Liar.....

Try not to put your difficulties in retaining information and recalling what I have previously said easygold down to me supposedly being a liar and instead put it down to your difficulties in retaining information and recalling what I have previously said.

I've never had "a pop" at him and far from it and even mentioned being impressed by him when I went to Epsom and backed and watched him win the Apprentices' Derby. Try printing out what I actually say, which I've repeated above as I said for about the 102nd time now if it helps you to remember and then that way you won't have to make up your own fairytale versions.....In fact I'll give you a copy and paste from the relevant date of a previous post:

ima_mazed66     31 May 14 06:48 
You have to smile to yourself when people are actually agreeing with you without even realising it.

All I've said all along when others claimed Oisin Murphy is a future Champion Jockey was that that's been said about numerous other top apprentices and some went on to become Champion Jockey and others didn't. Some did so in a short space of time like Ryan Moore and some took an age to such as Paul Hanagan, but what those who did so mostly had in common was that they got a decent job and so were attached to a stable that could give them plenty of winners and support which in turn made them in demand for outside rides too.

and

ima_mazed66     31 May 14 06:48

What I've actually said was that it remains to be seen how Murphy gets on when he loses his claim and much will depend on whether he gets a good enough job to enable him to become Champion Jockey...

So if you compare that to my earlier post in this thread you will see that I have been consistent all along and it's nothing like your Jackanory version of events.

As for your laughable claim of putting me in my place, the only way you would ever be able to do that is if you were my undertaker.....and even then true to form you'd probably get things arse about face anyway.

You choose to pick the thread`s that suit your defense........ the thread was about 3 weeks ago......... out of the blue........ I said Oisin Orr is worth his 10lb claim........
And you just come on........ and say the other Oisin isn`t riding many winners....... To me that is a pop at him.......  do you want and go find that thread????

And I will repeat this again...... I don`t care what you think or what any other jockey has done in the past....... I`M SAYING HE IS THE NEXT BIG THING TO HAPPEN.......... you need him to do it before you agree......... I`m speaking about the future........ and if I`m wrong big deal.......

And what bloke compares an young lad to the likes of Moore???? If you can`t see he is the next Moore,Eddery,Cauthen,Piggot e.t.c in a few years so be it.

If you can`t see he is the next Moore,Eddery,Cauthen,Piggot e.t.c in a few years so be it.

There will never be another Eddery/ Cauthen and especially Piggot!!

He is very good, of that there is no doubt.

Trouble is, there is a good un in most yards and he will need to keep on his toes to keep standing out, but sure he will.

No need to find the thread for me easygold, I'm not the one who has trouble retaining information and that's about right what I said, but stating something that is a fact must clearly mean you are having a pop at someone in your world then does it? Funnily enough, in mine it's merely just stating a fact.

Unfortunately those information retaining troubles are causing you problems yet again despite me repeating at least 2-3 times now in this very thread what I have taken issue with you over, which you then make a different point and then inaccurately tell me I've disagreed on that.

Let's try attempt about 103 again now and see if it finally sinks in this time:

The only thing I ever took issue with you easygold which and I've repeated to you numerous times now was your specific claim that you predicted he will be a future Champion Jockey, to which I responded with that a lot will depend on how he gets on when riding at levels against more experienced jockeys or apprentices who can still claim once he lost his own claim, and then whether he gets the right job in the future to help him become CJ.

Luckily I was able to copy and paste that from above without having to tediously type it out all over again and have even made bold the only thing I took issue over to try to help you there, and where do you get these fantasies from regrading me comparing a "young lad" to Moore from?

I compared (if that's the word you want to use) a young lad with another young lad (as he was then) because Oisin Murphy and Ryan Moore were both Champion Apprentices, as were the likes of Buick and Probert, Hayley Turner, Queally, Hanagan, Winston, Ffrench, Sanders, Holland, Fortune, Dettori, Richard Quinn and plenty of others. Some went on to become Champion Jockey and some didn't but almost without fail those who did went into the right stable to do so, plus plenty of other top notch apprentices had to prove themselves all over again once they lost their claim, just as the likes of Jason Hart is having to do now too, so try to get it into your head that anything I say regarding Murphy applies to all apprentices once their claim is gone.

Are you familiar with the concept that history often repeats itself. I've heard over the years many people suggest jockey such as Bleasdale, Holland, Munro, Newnes, Richard Quinn, Weaver and so on are future Champion Jockeys but it never materialised. That's totally different from saying they were poor jockeys though and that's something I've never said about Murphy and only that it remains to be seen how he gets on once he can no longer claim and which job or jobs he gets in the future, as to whether he will one day ever be Champion Jockey but that's something you are still clearly struggling to grasp.

Koikeeper....... good of you to join in...... well I think he is going the right way........ every time I see him he is getting better and I have no problem using the best in the business.

Ima........ your a liar...... you did have a pop at him....... and again you can name any other jockey from the past all you want...... I don`t care..... (Hart.Tart,Brown........ Mmmmmmmm I think I`m safe....... Oh you didn`t copy and paced those thread`s........ I wonder why....

Paste....

Ima...................Worst Jockey To  Go Near A Horse Thread............ I brought it to the top for you.......

Are you still at nursery school easygold, calling people liars because you have trouble retaining information yourself about what they have said?

I can't stop you deciding for yourself that me stating a few facts somehow means I'm having a pop at anyone but what I can do is tell you I know full well what I have said and the intentions behind it and it's a fact that he slowed down after losing his claim last season and that he has not exactly been firing in the winners this season either. 

Hart, Tart and Brown are all very good jockeys and in my opinion (and that's all it is) are just as decent as Oisin Murphy, but what part of me seeing anything I said about Murphy once he lost his claims also applies to any other apprentice didn't you quite understand the numerous other times I said it? With the exception of Brown how has struggled for rides due to weight issues and still has his claim anyway, the other two now ride at levels and so when I said it remains to be seen how Murphy gets on once he lost his claim or what kind of job he gets, then it clearly applies to them too.

Both have had a transitional period since losing their claim but obviously with an attachment to Andrew Balding's yard as well as several others via the Pearl Bloodstock and Qatar Racing then Murphy's generally going to get on a better class of horse than the other two, as already shown by the fact he rode in a classic but I would suggest if any horse wins a mile classic by 4½L then the jockey doesn't really matter and practically anyone would have won on it, including Hart, Tart and Brown.

I'm really not sure what you are going on about regarding "Ima...................Worst Jockey To  Go Near A Horse Thread............ I brought it to the top for you......." but I'm sure it somehow makes sense to you anyway.

He rode in The Derby last year........ Mmmmmmmmm now how did that happen??. You are saying those three are as good........ I`m not....... so your saying those jockey`s would have won on all the horses Oisin rode....... just listen to yourself........

Again I don`t care what you think........ all that crap about other jocks.......  nothing to do with Oisin...... this lad has it I`m sure of it, but all the crap you have said over the last 14 months is some piss take.

"I just want to be different" Liar..... trying to pick out threads that only suit yourself........

Ah yeah, better class horses will obviously have you crossed the line in front, tell that to the punters, who lose year in year out on Fav`s....... Murphy does not need to be on the best horse in the race to win.....

Whilst I agree with you about Oisin being very good & could one day be champion let's not forget about that young lad over in Ireland who has just started riding under rules this season.This young lad smashed all the records flapping for winners riding far more winners than any other lad had ever done.Fallon ,Dobbs,Hughes etc. achieved nothing like what this lad has.So far he's had 8 rides & has 1 winner under his belt.This kid WILL BE the next big thing as long as he gets the backing of a big stable which he will do.

Easy don't waste your time fella.

I remember the threads you posted up and I remember the argumentative character you're chatting to above comparing him to Brown, Tart and others.

See the difference between professional punters and casual punters who love the game (which are great and welcome and without knowing ima he comes across as of that sort) is their point of reference is far more acute.

Oisin is the best young jockey in a decade and a completely different class to Brown, Tart, Turner, Saleem or any other young apprentice who fired in a shedload of winners.

The simple reason is he won 20/25 races last season on horses that shouldn't have won or even gone close.

When you work on the game 85 hours a week, you pretty much know every horse, trainer, yard of track backwards  - you know when horses are winning that really shouldn't be winning - immediately you need to try and ascertain why.

Oisin won on horses last year, repeatedly, that had either virtually no chance or little.  You see this a couple of times & you make allowances, track bias, trainer bias, pace bias - but you pay attention.  When the sample size becomes so wide (20/25 winners of this ilk) those variables are negated to a sum value of zero.  The only variable which remains constant in each outcome, the jockey.

That's why he's the best there has been for a very long time.  The aforementioned young jocks of recent years, they didn't win on this type of horse almost never and when they did, it was a variable outside of their direct influence that caused it.

Interestingly I think Qater racing signed up the two best young jockeys available out there today, whoever is advising them on that level is very shrewd.

Atzeni is by far the best out there bar Moore (for the exact season reasons as above) (and a league above Buick or Doyle) and Oisin's virtues I've extolled above already.

Given he is 5/8 years younger than all the above and he's now at a level (both in competition and up a level of horse itself in ability) he'll improve only further.

You were spot on last year regarding him and though I post rarely on here I read plenty - take a bow and let the lad carry on talking for you as he will, no need to get dragged into it further on here.

Good luck to both of you lads.

Oisin is better at talking than riding. Blarney merchant. Atzeni's a good jockey but I think he fancies it more in the big races than the run of the mill stuff.

How does anybody listen to this ima mazed character, a typical know all who knows nothing. I blocked him after reading 2 posts of his, that was more than enough to know that this guy was nothing but an argumentative pest.

He will be back on Studious... going through every word you said (lol) Good to see your o.k........ Take care.

Riding for Stephen Arnold ;/

Again I don`t care what you think

You obviously bloody do otherwise you wouldn't start childish threads like this for years - please do carry on.........

Bait....

A reply that will make "War & Peace" look like easy reading, in the offing, one suspects...!

easygold     27 May 15 02:46 
He rode in The Derby last year........ Mmmmmmmmm now how did that happen??. You are saying those three are as good........ I`m not....... so your saying those jockey`s would have won on all the horses Oisin rode....... just listen to yourself........

Again I don`t care what you think........ all that crap about other jocks.......  nothing to do with Oisin...... this lad has it I`m sure of it, but all the crap you have said over the last 14 months is some piss take.

Ah yeah, better class horses will obviously have you crossed the line in front, tell that to the punters, who lose year in year out on Fav`s....... Murphy does not need to be on the best horse in the race to win.....

Do yourself a favour easygold and stop typing as that way you will save yourself from any further embarrassment and especially your line above in bold. that beggars belief even by your standards.

Using you logic (or lack of) would suggest it's a wrong statement to say Joseph O'O'Brien generally rides a better class of horse than say some journeyman jockey and the proof of how that's supposedly wrong is because and to quote your own nonsense "tell that to the punters, who lose year in year out on Fav`s" (sic) or favs.

I asked you previously if you are familiar with the expression that history often repeats itself but I now know you are obviously not, as you seem oblivious to the fact that many other top apprentices from the past were as good and some better than Murphy but still never went on to become Champion Jockey.

And do I really have to spoon feed it to you as to why Murphy got a ride in the Derby last season? If the owner and trainer deemed it to have had a serious chance of winning then he wouldn't have got near it because they would have booked somebody else more experienced and established in the game. Australia was the 11/8f and Red Galileo was 100/1 and jockeys like Richard Hughes who finished 3rd on one for Gosden was no doubt a jockey in demand after no Hannon runner, yet I would imagine deemed a 20/1 shot on the day that was beaten a nose in one of the Derby trials a better option than an AW mile winner in a 4 horse race which was RG's profile and Hughes seemed to agree with that.

If Ed Dunlop felt the horse had any chance he could have brought over Mosse, Peslier, Maxime Guyon or Soumillon to ride and the last two named was already there to ride in the Coronation Cup, where incidentally Ed Dunlop had a runner too but booked Ryan Moore to ride it considering the price it was. Yet yet none of those four French/French based jockeys had a Derby ride, plus Barzalona, Crowley, Doyle, Dettori, Fortune, Kirby and Queally all rode at the meeting but didn't have a ride in the Derby either , so are you seriously telling me that if the horse had any chance that connections would have overlooked previous Derby winning jockeys like Barzalona, Dettori and Peslier? Plus Andrew Balding also had a runner in the race and seeing as though Murphy was attached to his yard then why didn't he ride that one? It's a bit like how Murphy isn't actually #1 jockey to Pearl/Qatar when there's an older more experienced #1 who is likely to be on Elm park for the Derby this season.

Alex Greaves and Hayley Turner also rode in a Derby too with their mounts being 500/1 and an at one stage 100/1 and you can maybe see a pattern here? It was merely a day out for connections and they were good enough to give Murphy the ride on the basis of not really expecting to have any chance of winning. None of that is a meant as a negative assessment of his riding ability on my part but you are putting far too much significance on just the fact he had a ride in the race.

Studious_1     27 May 15 10:20 
Easy don't waste your time fella.

I remember the threads you posted up and I remember the argumentative character you're chatting to above comparing him to Brown, Tart and others.

See the difference between professional punters and casual punters who love the game (which are great and welcome and without knowing ima he comes across as of that sort) is their point of reference is far more acute.

Oisin is the best young jockey in a decade and a completely different class to Brown, Tart, Turner, Saleem or any other young apprentice who fired in a shedload of winners.

Then you will remember me taking issue with the claim that he is a future Champion Jockey.

Oisin Murphy is a very good young rider and was a top notch apprentice but he's no better or worse than several others like him in the past and the point was made on here that had he ridden 4 winners at Ayr over the course of the meeting on different days rather than on the same Saturday, then he wouldn't have received half as many headlines as he did at the time and it's like a footballer scoring in 4 consecutive games compared to 4 in one game.

To me he's no better or worse than say Hanagan and Queally when they were Champion Apprentice Jockey and if I had said soon after they lost their claims they would go on to be Champion and/or win a stack of classics and Gr1s, then that prediction would have looked a little silly in the early few seasons after losing their claim, so in racing a lot is about timing and opportunities but merely because Murphy has benefited from those and so far Brown, Hart and Tart haven't, doesn't mean they aren't of similar ability.

I love your quaint assessment though of how two people can have a discussion on something yet only one of them is argumentative.

Don`t forget you said your not having a pop at him????? Eh, did you not copy and paste that comment......... Oh yeah that would harm your defense...........

"What about the other Oisin, he is not riding many winners lately"???? "out of the blue" comment on a thread that was not even about Mr Murphy.

I see you are still struggling easygold with the concept of stating a fact doesn't necessarily mean you are having a pop at someone.....Oh and if you can't spot the common denominator link between a jockey called Oisin Orr and Oisin Murphy then I give up.

By the way, threads do sometimes branch out and evolve you know and don't have to stick strictly to what the OP states in their opening gambit, which is why Oisin Orr wasn't even mentioned when the OP was saying Fintan O'Toole was the worst jockey to go near a horse. Plus in case you have trouble retaining information about your own posts, you then brought up Jason Hart and so were you er, having a "pop" at him there then when the dealer responded saying he was a good jockey?

Why even mention him when to use your own words "a thread that was not even about" Jason Hart? Try to be a bit more consistent and less hypocritical eh?

It makes no diff= crap horse are

People think winners is the only thing you judge are rider on.......... Surely people know that riders don`t ride winners everyday......... So you just looked at his recent stat`s and said he is not riding winners...... at the start of a season?????? U didn`t even look at what type of horse he was on or type of race it was......... Ah yeah lost his claim, that`s him finished...........
And yet I told you he was is riding well even though the horses were not passing the post first............

If I thought for one second my judgement on him was wrong after his lost his claim....... I would be the first one to say it.......... But my opinion has got stronger to be honest........... I don`t know any jockey at 19 years of age that has the same horsemanship as him today and there is NO don`t he will get better and better.

opinions you can beat opinions...........

Nobody as far as I'm aware and that includes me (you just have trouble retaining that info easygold) has ever said Oisin Murphy is a poor jockey, nor have I said either way whether he is riding weel or poorly this season.

What I said and this applies to all top apprentices kids so please try to take that in, is that a claimer can offer a trainer something that a fully fledged jockey can't and that is weight off the horse's back. That's offset by the fact the fully fledged jockey might be stronger and has greater expereince over the claimer, so there's not always a right or decison when that trainer books either the claimer of the full jockey as both have their advantages.

Once that claimer loses his allowance and becomes a fully fledged jockey then other claimers can offer that trainer weight off the horse's back and other fully fledged jockeys can offer the trainer greater experienced and so on, both of which can squeeze out the former claimer who is now a fully fledged jockey unless they get the right opportunities once their claim has gone.

If I'm a trainer and felt my horse has a few pounds too much weight to carry, then this time last year I could have booked Murphy to take some weight off, now though I can't so either book him with what I effectively see as overweight or book someone like Cam Hardie instead to make use of his allowance. Alternatively if I want a jockey in a high profile, high pressure big race, where my choice is one who has been in that situation before and has proved several times to be successful such as Hughes, Moore and so on, then I'd be more likely to book them than take a risk of a much younger jockey who hasn't, so again Murphy could get squeezed out.

Murphy rode a horse about a week ago called Smiling Stranger in a handicap and they finished 2nd beaten 1½L. Now this time last season he would have been claiming 3lbs or maybe even 5lbs and with that extra weight off the horse's back probably would have won. Not only that, the winner was ridden by a 5lb claimer and Murphy probably would have won had the winner been ridden by a fully fledged jockey not able to claim. So nobody was saying Murphy was never going to ride another winner again throughout his career once he lost his claim, all that was being said was it remained to be seen how he got on once he was no longer able to claim and that's still the case now.

Go away you pest, most people have you blocked and rightly so.

Filibustering fred.

LOL....grow up mincer11 ffs, it's a public forum where people are free to post their views in er, public.

Apart from I expect you are talking total nonsense about most people supposedly having me blocked (done a survey have you?) if that includes you then that's your problem solved isn't it?

Unfortunately that tends to happen saddo when you are having to say the same thing over and over again when someone else continues to misrepresent your views and then calls you a liar when doing so.

I hope you lads have quit arguing for a few minutes & noticed the next big thing has just rode a double tonight.That I believe is 3 winners from about his first dozen rides.Which other kid including Oisin have matched that at the start of their careers?

Not saying he's not good but you could stick a scarecrow on some Gordon Elliott runners and they'd still win.

And there was that next big thing in Ireland a year or so ago? Rode a 4-timer one day? Not sighted since...

.

He f00ked that up good and proper

Gave it far too much to do in a doss maiden

ImanOracle.

Still a knob, of epic proportions.

carry on......

Yes it's true, hung like a gnat THERE....IS....NO....SPOOOOON, but then again I don't like to boast and make you feel inadequate though.

Some very poor rides last week,looked very dubious hopefully won't be a regular occurrence!

Not today..

i only spend 84 hours per week studying track formation and stalking jockeys, and am obviously a mere dilettante, but i cannot sit by and let divvies like ima have a go at the great god that is dubious 1. he is an object of reverence among ir players,  none would have a nana without his insight. everything( and i speak for us all)  that we know about racing has been learned from him..

imamoron is a wanchor of epic proportions. never mind his tedious drivel about racing, his infantile political pronouncements tell you all you need to know about this kn0bhead.

dubious 1 is the guvnor. his tipping has to be heard to be believed. i love listening to him. nobody comes close. he is up there with greats like my tea.

incidentally, catarrh shouldnt be allowed near racing, or anything else for that matter. it is a slave state and gold-plated khazi. sheikh rattle n roll is trying to legitimise his vicious, racist dictatorship by associating his desert rathole with civilised nations. he should be told to naff off.  they have managed to bump off over 1000 slaves 7 years in advance of the grotesque farce that is the world cup. only allah knows how many more of the brutally-treated banglies will die before the festival of greed starts. south africa, whose racing was ruined by isolation, was an earthly paradise by comparison with catarrh and similar middle eastern sh1tholes.

I'd consider cutting back on the studying then grappler because from the look of your post there you maybe need to get a bit more sleep. I don't even know who dubious 1 is for me to have even had a go at.

Lost me too on my apparent "infantile political pronouncements" but then I expect you might be guilty of living on another planet to me.....As for your great tea, are you by any chance adding anything else to it too?