richard hughes on the tiggy wiggy

awful ride

Hideous.

Should have let her stride on. Put a cross through that run!

Do horses ever lose because they're not good enough?

As soon as the rider NEVER let her roll on as per her good form last season, you knew she wasn't off.

Last gallop before some sprint target. Hannon said as much.

Richard Hannon, trainer: “Tiggy Wiggy was exceptional last season, but there is nothing around for three-year-old sprinters until the new Royal Ascot, so it makes sense to dip our toes in the water over seven furlongs. Hughesie says she hits the gates fast and then relaxes in front, so it is not out of the question that she will have the stamina for the seven. We are going into the unknown, but we are looking forward to the challenge and we find that she does not stay we can focus on the speed races.”

So why not hit the gates and settle in front? It was the successful tactics last year?

Saving his energy for Ivawood hopefully...

Definitely riding to orders for future races, pity the poor old punter weren't in on the plan, if had riden it's normal races and let it stride out early I doubt where it would have been caught.

they told you she would be ridden that way

If you had seen Hughes interviewed in the week he did say she would not be leading from the stalls

The way the beast drifted in the betting was a clue..

That family has no interest in the public unless they want to make a few quid...

I would expect the animal to improve leaps and bounds next time out.

as said earlier .They said that's how she would be ridden .Because they wanted to find out if she would settle ,hence why they call it a trial .It cant always be about the punter ,these horse's have owner's and am sure they were more interested in know if they had a chance of stay n the mile in 1000gns ,than the punter bets .and in fairness they did tell every one

I don't know why people are complaining, Hughes said in as many words that they won't trying on it today.

for me too it was a +ve thing that 'Cons' signposted the tactic change, as per the many posters on here that advocate the Ozzie Rules for gg's, obv. only helps though if you happen to see the quotes.

Remember these are trials lads.
Trainers dont want them given a tough time of it 1st time out.
Betting in trial races is always an added risk in betting.
On Tiggy, she wont stay the mile anyway imo, she is a sprinter.
She my not have progressed much from 2/3 not grown much, if any.
Think she is going to struggle this season.

so if a horse is in race and the jockey and trainer say they won't be trying, it's tough if you didn't read/hear it?

I would call that schooling in public which I thought was against the regulations.

BTW I didn't watch the race and don't know if I did any trading on it or not, just gleaning off this thread.

Horse has gone and has not trained on for absolute definite. Lay this till the cows come home this season and will be retired to stud. Hannon said as much in his interview after.

What I would say big aitch is that after many years betting in trials because they are big races I would like to think those days are over unless I think I have spotted something that no one else has. We as punters don't have to bet in every race.

we as punters also dont have to subsidise prize money for trials,
for the life of me cant see what they got out of yesterdays run,any other horse you,d deffo say she wanted further but we all suspect she,s a sprinter so why didnt they ride her as a deffo stayer and at least they,d no one way or another with a full campaign left

Oh FFS -- they did not say she would not be trying: they did say they'd use different tactics to conserve her stamina with a view to seeing if she would get the Guineas mile. If Hughes had gone bombing off in front, there is no chance she'd have got home (and there'd have been loads of freds saying she wasn't off and should have been held up).

They're trying to get a nice handicap mark, there's a 6f 0-70 at Thirsk in July she's being aimed at. THEY'LL get the lot there.

When will they realise that this game is NOTHING without us punters, it would survive no problems without owners, jockeys, sponsors, trainers, horses...... it's a joke.

He said they would be trying to get her mark down.

Given a proper ride in the 1000 Gns and she will be in the mix imo.. 33/1 a fair e/w punt

They are NOT trying to get her handicap mark down. They ARE trying to get her paddock value up -- in other words, she is more valuable (and so will her foals be) if she is placed in a Classic than if she wins a handicap.

rmccarthy16 • April 19, 2015 1:23 PM BST
Horse has gone and has not trained on for absolute definite. Lay this till the cows come home this season and will be retired to stud. Hannon said as much in his interview after.

i think thats a bold statement after one run we will see........

Don't forget Hughsie rode these two favs with flu, neither looked like winning at any stage and were given very sympathetic rides by the motionless Hughes, flu takes all your strength away.

rewired, yes we will. Why do you think they ran it so many times last year? to get the most value from it in prize money and stud value

it will have one more run if it's poor again that'll be it

She doesn't need to run again, is worth a good six-figure sum.

Just one observation - her paddock value will be significantly higher than currently IF they can get winning black type at three and prove that she has trained on.

Sorry forgot to add, I think rmccarthy16 is talking out of his but t

Sorry forgot to add, I think rmccarthy16 is talking out of his but t

Hannon:-

"Obviously we would have been delighted for Tiggy Wiggy to have won the Fred Darling instead of finishing third, but the trials come plenty soon enough and she has taken time to come to herself this spring.
"She might have needed the race more than we envisaged, but, though we rode her to get the trip, Hughesie was adamant that she would not have won at five, six or seven (furlongs), so maybe we should put a line through the race and move on.
"The plan is still to aim Tiggy Wiggy for the 1000 Guineas, and, hopefully, she'll come on a lot physically in the next two weeks. If we find at Newmarket that she doesn't stay we can always come back to sprinting for Royal Ascot."

ok blackbarn, I'll make sure I pull this up when we find out I'm right.  koi, he also said something along the lines of if shes lost her speed then so be it. strange thing to say after one disappointing run, no? check the channel four interview

McCarthy......"It will have one more run if it's poor again that will be it".   Er, no it won't!

and you said the above, having previously said "Horse has gone and not trained on for definite". If that was the case why give it even ONE more run?.  You may well be correct but you are premature in the extreme.

That didn't look like a horse who hadn't trained on to me...

Ramrura understands and saves the thread with common sense.
Rmccarthy is correct too imo, Was a great 2yo but that's all she was ever going to be.

tomdeane, what not trained on? going from routing group 2's to coming a poor third by two A/W maiden winners


Blackburn, either you think the horse has trained on or it hasn't you can't cover yourself for two eventualities. I'm adamant it hasn't not based on this run but by last years massively busy schedule which was done because they thought it wouldn't train on and the race Saturday only added to it.

Do you think if this was a horse for the future they would have run her 8 times as a 2YO?

McCarthy - Having watched precocious 2 year old fillies NOT train on for over 50 years, I would be reluctant to say for certain that she had trained on, but as I have said I do not believe that that one race is sufficient to say that she has not.  In short I CAN cover myself to two eventualities.   There not masheens

Not much wrong with that run apart from it not winning. Would have fared much better if allowed its head. May not have stayed but surely it would have been better to find out letting the horse do her own thing! How many times do we see certain horses dropping in behind and sulking? Different horse will be seen next time out even if put back over shorter? Hannon camp guilty of trying something out without trying something out!!! If you get my drift!!

Yes i know blackburn, but you can hardly start an argument with me for stating what i think will happen then sit on the fence yourself and bring out the 'not machines' card when i have merely stated my point.Again, I said I believed this before she run Saturday and that added to my belief.

When we find out find out she hasn't you'll say 'i never said she had trained on, they're not masheens'

McCarthy - No I won't I will merely say you were correct, if indeed it turns out she has NOT trained on.  My view as stated below is that they will want to get "winning 3yo black type" and demonstrate that "she has trained on".  My criticism of your comment is based entirely on what I regard as your unwarranted "certainty".

There is an interesting parallel between Tiggy Wiggy AND Indian Ink (of Hannon Sr's) here.

fair enough, blackbarn. let's wait and see, all about opinions which is what the games about after all!

Calling rmccarthy.   Thoughts on today??

Here it is rm. The parallel with Indian Ink gets stronger.  Thoughts?

Yes run a very good race, still i would like to see her actually win again at her preferred distance before we can say she's still top class, wouldn't you?

or has actually retained the same ability ?

Thanks rm - I have little to add to my post of 16.56 on the 20th.  They have their black type, she has clearly trained on and placed in a Guineas is "top class". I agree with you though that it would be good to see her win a GP 1 at say six. We'll see.

So if she failed to win another race at 5, 6 or 7 furlongs would you still say she has trained on and retained the same ability just because she was placed in a (poor) Guineas with everything in her favour i.e making her own pace, easy track, ground etc etc

like we both said, we'll see what happens but just because i have a different opinion to you doesn't mean i'm wrong and your right

I would say that most judges would say that being placed in a Guineas (even a poor one, which this one may not be) would be evidence that a filly has trained on. It is obvious that she needs to do more to show that she has improved significantly beyond the norm from 2 to 3 but that could easily be demonstrated even if she does not win another race - i.e by being placed in one or more all-sex all-age sprints over the balance of the season.  I assume this will be their plan.

Right you are, Shrewdie

Glad we agree  Could be a fun season.

Clearly had us all over in the fred darling, if she had been allowed to bowl along, as in the guineas it would have been a totally different result.

blackbarn, what do you think now?

RM - found it.   On reflection, little to add to my 6th May post.