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Thought I'd try out Online Casino for the first time today, there didn't appear to be a play-for-fun option so I chose to play black/red Roulette for the minimum stake of 10p while I acquainted myself with the format.
What alarmed me was that my first six 10p bets all WON and, being the cynic I am, it crossed my mind that maybe in order to get the player hooked the computer is programmed to be generous to first-time starters, especially ones playing minimum stakes?
I suspect that may well be the case, took my 60p profit and resolved not to play until I'm satisfied Online Casino is kosher.
Are there any safeguards and monitors out there to prevent computer manipulation?
Somehow, I feel that had I been staking the maximum £2.5k per spin instead of the minimum 10p, I would not have been 100 per cent successful with my six spins.
Then again, perhaps I'm too cynical!
What alarmed me was that my first six 10p bets all WON and, being the cynic I am, it crossed my mind that maybe in order to get the player hooked the computer is programmed to be generous to first-time starters, especially ones playing minimum stakes?
I suspect that may well be the case, took my 60p profit and resolved not to play until I'm satisfied Online Casino is kosher.
Are there any safeguards and monitors out there to prevent computer manipulation?
Somehow, I feel that had I been staking the maximum £2.5k per spin instead of the minimum 10p, I would not have been 100 per cent successful with my six spins.
Then again, perhaps I'm too cynical!
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I see a machine wiv "this pays out 77%" written in the side of it wiv people queing to play it................I can comment no further
Anyone who believes that computerized arcade/casino games are purely random probably believes in the tooth fairy. In years to come I suspect the culprits who run these "games" will be paying out BILLIONS to all those people who have been defrauded by them. Watchdog will probably get wind of an IT fraud first. How can anyone bet on an event where the machine knows your stake and your selections before it whirrs into action?
A computer cannot generate a random number...
why do you think they spend so much money advertising these casinos?
why do you think they spend so much money advertising these casinos?
It's more likely that George from Rainbow is straight, imo...
I worked in the industry till '12 . We were told the numbers came via a satellite every few seconds ! 
And, believe or not I've seen the same no. come out five times on the ''bounce'' watching someone play !
on the machines in the tote if you pressed the button at the exact same time the same number would come out on all 4 machines
Lex is correct. Save your monet, man will not beat machine particularly in this case. ITCANNOTBEDONE! I once was in a casino and saw 0 come up 3 times in 5 spins. The little old lady with 20p on 0 every spin cleaned up and the "Propunters" and System players were murdered within 5 spins. Casino games cannot be beat whether live or online.
I hope this clarifies the matter.
I hope this clarifies the matter.
i heard that number 28 always comes out after number 12
is this true
is this true
op- you are not cynical, but you are very stupid indeed.
jmdc-you are even worse, as you seem to think yourself clever enough to spot an irregularity that does not exist. you fhucking moron.
jmdc-you are even worse, as you seem to think yourself clever enough to spot an irregularity that does not exist. you fhucking moron.
pablo-fanque 21 Mar 15 13:42
i heard that number 28 always comes out after number 12
is this true
If it was they would have been wiped out before now.
i heard that number 28 always comes out after number 12
is this true
If it was they would have been wiped out before now.
If there is a house mark up % the numbers cannot be random
As lex says, the house has an edge, why would the mess with it. Also have seen what elmasters describes and the same number came up on both machines each time.
The house edge is already there ~3% with one zero and another ~3% with a second zero or anything else such e.g. cash-pot bonus. As others have stated computers cannot produce truly random numbers. Also read the casino small print defining random in the context of games it is illuminating. Common sense should tell you it is random in as much as unpredictable but almost certainly there is a bias as the stakes go up. Any serious roulette gambling should be done in a bricks and mortar casino especially if they give your free drinks as added value to offset the money you are hemorrhaging. Betfair play fair in as much as you can exclude yourself from casino, games etc, please take it and you won't be tempted.
Elmaster is correct.
With all the negativity about FOBT's, on line casinos etc, I can't really understand why the OP would pick today to start playing.
With all the negativity about FOBT's, on line casinos etc, I can't really understand why the OP would pick today to start playing.
Storm Alert 21 Mar 15 13:55
Common sense should tell you it is random in as much as unpredictable but almost certainly there is a bias as the stakes go up.
If the same number hits every machine each spin, which machine would determine any bias?
Pablo
Common sense should tell you it is random in as much as unpredictable but almost certainly there is a bias as the stakes go up.
If the same number hits every machine each spin, which machine would determine any bias?
Pablo
Just my belief. I don't believe my chance of winning if I bet £1 bet on a roulette spin online the random algorithm would be be the same as if I bet £1000 online. I do believe my chance of winning would be the same in a bricks and mortar casino subject to any mechanical characteristic.
A computer cannot generate a random number...Absolute garbage computers can and do generate random numbers Having said that, it is not a good idea to play online casino games
Sorry, storm alert, never thought online might be different, I've only ever seen a two screen comparison in a shop.
If you choose to throw your money down a drain that's advertised to be 5' deep, does really matter if it's actually 6' deep? 
Thanks for all the input which leads me to believe I made the right decision in stopping my Online Casino adventure with a 100 per cent successful record. I shall now bank the 60p proceeds!
PS: Howsyourluck has a real way with words - I could say he's a real wit but I'd only be 50 per cent right!
PPS: Wasn't it Florence who spent every episode trying to get the others into bed?
PS: Howsyourluck has a real way with words - I could say he's a real wit but I'd only be 50 per cent right!
PPS: Wasn't it Florence who spent every episode trying to get the others into bed?
MIT - the authority on all things clever mathematically speaking says...
You can program a machine to generate what can be called “random” numbers, but the machine is always at the mercy of its programming.
“On a completely deterministic machine you can’t generate anything you could really call a random sequence of numbers,” says Ward, “because the machine is following the same algorithm to generate them.
Typically, that means it starts with a common ‘seed’ number and then follows a pattern.”
The results may be sufficiently complex to make the pattern difficult to identify, but because it is ruled by a carefully defined and consistently repeated algorithm, the numbers it produces are not truly random.
“They are what we call ‘pseudo-random’ numbers,” Ward says.
You can program a machine to generate what can be called “random” numbers, but the machine is always at the mercy of its programming.
“On a completely deterministic machine you can’t generate anything you could really call a random sequence of numbers,” says Ward, “because the machine is following the same algorithm to generate them.
Typically, that means it starts with a common ‘seed’ number and then follows a pattern.”
The results may be sufficiently complex to make the pattern difficult to identify, but because it is ruled by a carefully defined and consistently repeated algorithm, the numbers it produces are not truly random.
“They are what we call ‘pseudo-random’ numbers,” Ward says.
Mick Sturbs
A computer cannot generate a random number...Absolute garbage computers can and do generate random numbers Having said that, it is not a good idea to play online casino games
Your dead wrong about computers being able to generate random numbers, pseudo random number generators (PRNG) is used and the very existence of the algorithm, no matter how sophisticated, means that the next digit can be predicted.
Agree with you last sentence though.
A computer cannot generate a random number...Absolute garbage computers can and do generate random numbers Having said that, it is not a good idea to play online casino games
Your dead wrong about computers being able to generate random numbers, pseudo random number generators (PRNG) is used and the very existence of the algorithm, no matter how sophisticated, means that the next digit can be predicted.
Agree with you last sentence though.
I disagree with the above about pseudo random numbers generated by computers and a random number being predictable.
One of the normal methods of generating a random number is to divide the current time (held in tiny fractions of a second so that the number is huge) by a prime number set according to the range in which the random number is to be generated. The modulus is the random number.
I don't see how this is predictable as the main variable is the precise time at which the random number is asked for.
If they wanted to fiddle that process, then of course they could, but there is nothing wrong with the actual computer process of generating a random number.
One of the normal methods of generating a random number is to divide the current time (held in tiny fractions of a second so that the number is huge) by a prime number set according to the range in which the random number is to be generated. The modulus is the random number.
I don't see how this is predictable as the main variable is the precise time at which the random number is asked for.
If they wanted to fiddle that process, then of course they could, but there is nothing wrong with the actual computer process of generating a random number.
Common sense that any program cannot be truly random. Someone has written the code that generates the 'random' number. Therefore theoretically there is a pattern, but not in reality.
The FOBTS cannot be random in the Pubs around here or why else would the pros always ask the barman which machine has/has not paid out on the day..
There is even a message on the machines that says something similar....
There is even a message on the machines that says something similar....
they offer ,£50,free if u deposit £10,that wont last long,
,its fraud.
,its fraud.
homefortea
homefortea 21 Mar 15 18:52 Joined: 06 Sep 04 | Topic/replies: 9,620
The FOBTS cannot be random in the Pubs around here or why else would the pros always ask the barman which machine has/has not paid out on the day..
what the prozzies go in the pub to play the machine?shouldnt they be out earning a dishonest living
homefortea 21 Mar 15 18:52 Joined: 06 Sep 04 | Topic/replies: 9,620
The FOBTS cannot be random in the Pubs around here or why else would the pros always ask the barman which machine has/has not paid out on the day..
what the prozzies go in the pub to play the machine?shouldnt they be out earning a dishonest living
No the alleged "pro" machine players...
Some of them never lose apparently..
Not sure about the pubs in England but the maximum payout here is a monkey.
Some of them never lose apparently..
Not sure about the pubs in England but the maximum payout here is a monkey.
I have a large following and an even larger one that precedes them...
I used to work for a Major Bookmaker and a minor one plus I was in charge of Online Operations for an Internet Operator..
I have emerged from being a Slave so yes..
I AM SPARTICUS......
I have emerged from being a Slave so yes..
I AM SPARTICUS......
Just to set you straight, in theory computers cannot generate a random number, however what is the definition of random? Most computers will generate "random" numbers from their internal clock, convert the time (usually to 1000th of a second) to an integer. Take another timing, and multiply the the middle values of the number concerned. So although not "random", as this is based on an actual time, it is impossible to predict.
That said, a completely random number generator does not return the required margin on the games, and hence a further filter is applied to ensure the expected payment levels are maintained. However the criteria of user stake is not applied.
That said, a completely random number generator does not return the required margin on the games, and hence a further filter is applied to ensure the expected payment levels are maintained. However the criteria of user stake is not applied.
Mar 21, 2015 -- 2:32PM, halcyon days wrote:
I worked in the industry till '12 . We were told the numbers came via a satellite every few seconds !
was told to tell the customers the exact same bull lol
Swardean.....surely the margin of the game is built in to the payout....nothing to do with the number generator
The numbers are random. Of course they are. Why the frig would they need to rig a game that is **** in their favour anyway? You think casinos lose on bricks and mortar roulette?
And yes, freerolling is spot on. The margin is nothing to do with the number generator, it is just that you get paid 35/1 on a 37/1 shot on the straight numbers and your even money shots or 2/1 shots because the 0 is a loser.
Marychain1, How can you can compare B&M casinos to online casinos?
The very existence of the house margin function within casino software suggests the numbers can't possibly be truly random.
Furthermore this computerised margin is a variable, which can be set to whatever the programmer wishes.
The very existence of the house margin function within casino software suggests the numbers can't possibly be truly random.
Furthermore this computerised margin is a variable, which can be set to whatever the programmer wishes.
marychain1 • March 23, 2015 12:35 AM GMT
The numbers are random. Of course they are. Why the frig would they need to rig a game that is **** in their favour anyway? You think casinos lose on bricks and mortar roulette?
the only problem is as your selecting your numbers the computer program actually knows what numbers your on before you spin it
certainly not the same as going to a casino.....
in my opinion nothing more than a slot machine-steer clear.....
if four machines in a shop pressed at exactly the same time.....same number comes out
bookmakers have a saying never give a sucker an even break
if roulette is someones pastime i would sooner go casino but not for me
The numbers are random. Of course they are. Why the frig would they need to rig a game that is **** in their favour anyway? You think casinos lose on bricks and mortar roulette?
the only problem is as your selecting your numbers the computer program actually knows what numbers your on before you spin it
certainly not the same as going to a casino.....
in my opinion nothing more than a slot machine-steer clear.....
if four machines in a shop pressed at exactly the same time.....same number comes out
bookmakers have a saying never give a sucker an even break
if roulette is someones pastime i would sooner go casino but not for me
try it now,online,10 red, 10 black, 5 red 5 black,5 black 5 red,u wont win anyway u do it.
having emptied these machines and seen the profit and loss, i can say, yes they do make a loss. They are NOT bandits,
The house has a 2.7% edge in all roulette(single 0)
whether it be online , fobts or bricks and mortar,
the numbers generated are random enough to maintain this margin.
Why on earth would they risk killing the goose that lays the golden egg?
whether it be online , fobts or bricks and mortar,
the numbers generated are random enough to maintain this margin.
Why on earth would they risk killing the goose that lays the golden egg?
Much as I would love to believe you MT, I can't. The only way that would be acceptable to me would be if someone is rolling a ball in a televised casino after all betting is suspended, and even that can be fraudulent, like in-running betting. I cannot accept the machine knowing my stake and selections before the action. Imo, anything is possible regarding the vermin that operate these machines.
Again grateful for apparently knowledgable input but my main question remains unanswered I.e. Is there a monitoring body out there with the authority and expertise to swoop on dodgy operators ( including or rather especially the Big Four), suspend their operation and check that payouts are not determined or altered by the size of the stake or uncover anything untoward.
If such a body does not exist then Online Roulette has the potential to be a thieves' charter which will, hopefully, one day be unmasked as such, with similar outcome to the PPI scandal
If such a body does not exist then Online Roulette has the potential to be a thieves' charter which will, hopefully, one day be unmasked as such, with similar outcome to the PPI scandal
As a complete novice to this Gambling Game surely the cards dealt cannot be truly random on a machine....
If a punter wins the maximum then sure as hell the next deal will not pay another monkey (pub machines) and that is why they have a disclaimer and that is why the "true pros" always ask the barman which machine has paid out.
Just a thought.
If a punter wins the maximum then sure as hell the next deal will not pay another monkey (pub machines) and that is why they have a disclaimer and that is why the "true pros" always ask the barman which machine has paid out.
Just a thought.
Mr Essex there is not a Gambling Authority in the UK with the expertise to work out how much you have won if you have a pound on a 3/1 chance...
You are quite correct - how does anyone know that a machine has for example a 90% payout.
Anyone that plays the wretched FOBTS ask for a receipt as you are quite right in questioning the validity of the payout...
You are quite correct - how does anyone know that a machine has for example a 90% payout.
Anyone that plays the wretched FOBTS ask for a receipt as you are quite right in questioning the validity of the payout...
It's just theoretically increasing the odds in your favour. It's settling down phenomenon. The machine is programmed to even out in the long term towards the payout percentage.
For example, if you wrote a program to replicate the throwing of a dice, and you rolled 3 6's in a row, the odds that the program rolls another 6 does not equal the odds if it was a real dice. The machine is influenced by previous outcomes, whereas of course a real dice does not and is truly random.
For example, if you wrote a program to replicate the throwing of a dice, and you rolled 3 6's in a row, the odds that the program rolls another 6 does not equal the odds if it was a real dice. The machine is influenced by previous outcomes, whereas of course a real dice does not and is truly random.
the only way you would believe that the numbers were random
was if they had something like the national lottery system picking the numbers out.....
not a computer programme,really how can they be random
once watched 17 consecutive black numbers come out
never ever seen that at a casino
the machine is programmed,so for me one to swerve....
was if they had something like the national lottery system picking the numbers out.....
not a computer programme,really how can they be random
once watched 17 consecutive black numbers come out
never ever seen that at a casino
the machine is programmed,so for me one to swerve....
Cider now we are getting there...
No wonder the "pros" wander round town looking for one that has not paid out and avoiding those that have...
Not really fair if you are a non English speaking recent arrival...
That puts the minimum wage in them.
As they say there are pros and cons to mass immigration...
No wonder the "pros" wander round town looking for one that has not paid out and avoiding those that have...
Not really fair if you are a non English speaking recent arrival...
That puts the minimum wage in them.
As they say there are pros and cons to mass immigration...
I'm pretty sure that programmers left a "back door" open, back in the day; I never knew what the trigger numbers were, and anyone who knew them didn't know when they going to appear, but if you maximised (playing about half the table for £100 every 30 seconds) you could parley up to c £2,000 and then cash out.
Doubt it's still working but one thing is for sure: you'll never hear a High St bookmaker refer to it.
Doubt it's still working but one thing is for sure: you'll never hear a High St bookmaker refer to it.
there are no such failsafes at all, they actually DO make a loss sometimes, unlike pub machines, they are as random as you can get. They will not withold anything from you. Doesnt matter if joe blogs has just £500 on it a few seconds earlier, and the way it works by the way, is that when the spin button has been pressed, it then sends a REQUEST, for a random number from a central server. It then uses this number. Theoretically if you pressed at exactly the same time anywhere in country they would both be same numbers, however it changes with every split second.
mrbookie69...
So if 1000 people pressed the button at the same time they would all win...
(I realise that it is a split second but there are so many players)...
So if 1000 people pressed the button at the same time they would all win...
(I realise that it is a split second but there are so many players)...
Sensible posts, but they won't believe you
The conspiracy theorist will not be diverted. 16 runner handicaps are still blighted by the "brown envelope" non-runner don't you know.
The conspiracy theorist will not be diverted. 16 runner handicaps are still blighted by the "brown envelope" non-runner don't you know.
Mar 23, 2015 -- 10:25PM, homefortea wrote:
mrbookie69...So if 1000 people pressed the button at the same time they would all win...(I realise that it is a split second but there are so many players)...
well, you also have to consider that there are more than one server to which they request numbers from. Ours alone has 5 across all our shops (49 of them) Not to mention the different companies supplying them etc.
the name mrbookie worries me
feel you may be a tad bias.........
feel you may be a tad bias.........
No wonder the "pros" wander round town looking for one that has not paid out and avoiding those that have...
roulette tables; be they online , fobts or bricks and mortar, have no memory.
they don't need one .
they sit there earning 2.7% profit with no risk.
that 2.7 % is probably more likely to be in excess of 3%,when greed and other factors
come into play.
someone who throws ,say a tenner on is unlikely to walk off with £9.70
roulette tables; be they online , fobts or bricks and mortar, have no memory.
they don't need one .
they sit there earning 2.7% profit with no risk.
that 2.7 % is probably more likely to be in excess of 3%,when greed and other factors
come into play.
someone who throws ,say a tenner on is unlikely to walk off with £9.70
All the posts about 'computers can't generate random numbers' are missing the point; random numbers for gambling aren't produced by computers but by TRNGs (True Random Number Generators or Hardware Random Number Generators); they use a physical process like seminconductor noise to generate a stream of randoms bits (1s and 0s) that can be chopped up to give random numbers.
As a couple of people have pointed out, if you can find punters to take 36-1 about a 37-1 shot, why would you bother cheating?
As a couple of people have pointed out, if you can find punters to take 36-1 about a 37-1 shot, why would you bother cheating?
The original post concerned the even money chances or in your evaluation taking 18-19. I suggest that, to allay people's doubts, all wheel spins should be as in a casino and not knowing what the punter has bet on. Would you put your LIFE on the whole process being straight?
in fairness to what your saying i would certainly trust a live roulette wheel more than an online one myself
way too many grey areas too be exploited by bookmakers...........
way too many grey areas too be exploited by bookmakers...........
about 18months ago I got a free £10 from sky vegas played the roulette stakeing 5p on red then upping stake to 25p then 50p just on red doubleing up if I lost sometimes hit 5/6 blacks on the bounce before I won again got up to £180 then just hit a row of black after black wiped it out never touched online games again
I saw 18 blacks in a row once...
it was a dole queue in Brixton!
it was a dole queue in Brixton!
FOBTS are random end of. anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong. Of course they still win plenty over time as do all casinos
Don't know if this has already been posted but there will be a bias against the punter.
The casino, bookie or whoever is in business to make a profit, 2%, 10% or whatever of the turnover.
Therefore with any "gamble", to win you have to have an edge over the casino or bookie, e.g. by studying form for horseracing, and be very disciplined with your betting.
You can't study form with roulette, cards etc.
So you'll lose in the long run.
The casino, bookie or whoever is in business to make a profit, 2%, 10% or whatever of the turnover.
Therefore with any "gamble", to win you have to have an edge over the casino or bookie, e.g. by studying form for horseracing, and be very disciplined with your betting.
You can't study form with roulette, cards etc.
So you'll lose in the long run.
blackjack needs a certain amount of skill to play it well............
Rewired.
Yes, agree but you're only winning against a player who is not as good as you in the long run, and with blackjack if you count the cards and remember what's gone, and you do it better than the others, you should win.
But they don't let you when you're playing the house.
Yes, agree but you're only winning against a player who is not as good as you in the long run, and with blackjack if you count the cards and remember what's gone, and you do it better than the others, you should win.
But they don't let you when you're playing the house.
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