is all weather racing fixed ?

It's the punters minds that are fixed and their own incapabilities,aw is and has always been the nightmare for books
anyone who has a natural eye/aptitiude for racing the opportunity is there to win consistently and it's limitless if you put in the hours to begin with.
Anyone betting that thinks they the can devote time and have natural aptitiude should go straight to aw racing,because that's where you will win big turf racing has become a joke with so much watering,last season was the worst ever I can remember numerous meetings dry all week and having the words''watering to maintain''on good ground.You would naturally expect ground to be nearer gd/gdfm but meetings were riding gd/sft and that happened all season, just too much guessing on the turf it's become futile...

It's not fixed. It's just overloaded with non triers.Too many profiting from losing.

Fixed is the wrong word,but it isn't hard to find examples of races where there appears to have been considerable collusion - Heavily backed favourites soon well placed from improbable draws, big market drifters ridden aggressively or taken to race on the slowest part of tracks etc. As a punter, you either have to avoid it or accept the corruption as part of the game and work round it. And it is not just confined to all-weather either. Most 2m novice hurdles in particular contain a majority of non triers.

Yes, last Wednesdays debacle springs to mind !

Yes just on the AW but not anywhere else.

lols sparrow all racing has its non triers

All weather will always be this way trainers holding horses back till handicap mark falls then boom the gambles on seen so many times this season i dont bother with it full stop brendan powells rakaan 25s down to 5 blows in. last 3 races before gamble beaten 105 plus lengths.george baker dana's present 10s down to even money no form whats so ever wins turning hand springs.it will always be this way punters left in the dark mugs on here laying them because the prize money is so poor bha has to do more to address the issues but normally the betfair markets tell you all you need to know.

Name ANY Walk of Life  that's 100% straight ... bet you cannot
don't rush lads..

boga. I agree with what you say,but it applies to all racing in Britain not just AW.

op should just delete the word weather from thread title.

Virtually every corruption charge has involved the rancid AW. Things go on in all forms of racing,but The AW is by far the worst culprit

Its got so bad - my profits are at a record high

First  read the form / no the form
Second read the market
tells  YOU ALL you need to know   back or lay

Is that zipper or the gardener relaying zipper's thoughts from abroad? Mad as a box of frogs!

Dave me and zip have been together  40 years plus , ok he aint  every once cup of tea
but he is what you get ... its lump on time  ..lay this till your nose bleeds   and all that jaz
that's zip
3 certs today he asked me to bet

Might make uncomfortable reading ...

Schizophrenia is a long-term mental health condition that causes a range of different psychological symptoms, including:

    hallucinations - hearing or seeing things that do not exist
    delusions - unusual beliefs not based on reality which often contradict the evidence
    muddled thoughts based on the hallucinations or delusions
    changes in behaviour

Doctors often describe schizophrenia as a psychotic illness. This means sometimes a person may not be able to distinguish their own thoughts and ideas from reality.

Dave me and zip have been together  40 years plus...
A nice threesome... each to their own and all that.

Dave  before  zip retired he was a doctor  33 years
your post 12.29  is lets keep it simple like me ......Rubbish  but that aint the first time you came out with rubbish

Den Maschine 3/1 out to 9/1 and finishes 2nd last

still shorter than the 50/1 it was last time.

TRD.Racing 23 Feb 15 16:35 
Den Maschine 3/1 out to 9/1 and finishes 2nd last





Could never happen on the turf. 

Not worth trying unless the moneys down,trainers wait till everything is right,jockeys bunged for trying hard when moneys down,and paid to stop when it suits.game not policed so what do you expect.

Is All racing fixed ?

That should be the question, these smug 4-eyed **** should really be shot, there needs to be some sort of Jihad taken out on them.

in my experiance the day everything is right the price is wrong and they don't win ,formbook and window from throw .

cant wait till the turf season gets going ,another 40 thousand 2yo,s to sift through 

all things are fixed where moneys ivolved,if you want a great laugh go on youtube and see on punter on poker stars showing how that site is fixed.

Well if there isn't corruption in AW racing some people are missing a great opportunity.

Whilst I might be wrong (don't think I am) what is more worrying on these poorer tracks is way horses are ridden, lack of pace and speed generally including stop and start and perhaps more importantly change in tactics usually reflected after timing in big drifts and noticeable market activity. Looks bad and is bad however do understand ability of these animals no better than ****.

To answer the question, not in my opinion.

I've always thought that the AW should be easier as the going is more or less consistent and you don't have all the different types of track to contend with.

Feb 23, 2015 -- 12:02PM, Thin and Crispy wrote:

Well if there isn't corruption in AW racing some people are missing a great opportunity.

What that's like saying if the bank's don't steal your money some people are missing a great opportunity!



oh wait

all to often the people who have backed a horse that has drifted and lost cant look at themselves and accept blame it's an ego thing, far easier to blame the game

market dynamics people, I wouldnt for a second be suggesting there isnt skullduggery there most certainly but a horse who drifts in a race doesnt necessarily drift because the stable are laying the b0ll0x out of it

2 more points for the thicketts who cant understand why they lose their dole money

Hugh Taylor regularly makes profit, his selections are there in black and white every day with workings *hint*

plus it doesnt matter if its fixed or not it can be worked out with a modicum of effort

Zipper was a Doctor for 33yrs.....................

Its rarely fixed, the vast majority are playing the game though which suits me fine, non triers are an occupational hazard, if you dont want to deal with it only bet on the quality races.

You onlyhave to look at the amount of unplaced favourites

The fact that a horse drifts is not an indication every time that it's a non trier. There are plenty that win. However there are too many that drift dramatically just before the off, miss the break, run wide on the bend, then are brought back inside to run into traffic.

One only has to look at the measly prize money on offer to get your answer. How on earth are connections of low grade horses meant to cover their monthly costs?

How do Trainers survive from a business point of view if they play with a straight bat.
Outside of the top half a dozen trainers the game looks like commercial suicide. Many trainers
subsidise the cost of training to owners in order to retain their horses,so the money has to come
from somewhere.

Its only fixed when i lose.I think.

I think the answer to the OP is
It's not fixed in the sense that someone has arranged who will win but there are more horses which are not running to the best of their ability a lot of the time and whose connections know they will certainly not win.
Anyone would be very gulllible to think that any sport where money is involved is going to be straight but as is said above connections' expenses have to be paid and on the AW it ain't going to come from the prize money.

Exactly. All the partipants don't get together to decide the winner rather the Owner, trainer, Jock get together and decide how the horse will run and where it will finish.  Having this knowledge and access to Betfair gives them potential to make an income beyond prize money.

Feb 24, 2015 -- 5:10AM, Thin and Crispy wrote:

Exactly. All the partipants don't get together to decide the winner rather the Owner, trainer, Jock get together and decide how the horse will run and where it will finish.

A lot of trainers phone each other to see how their horses will run. While theyre not laying out how a race will go exactly they do know if other trainers are not winning with theirs.

I simply would not back a runner on an all weather track that has drifted or is drifting near the off.

But if likes of M Appleby or K Ryan are all blue on oddschecker then I am in head down.

You have to take into account the standard of jockey generally riding on the aw, most can only be described as woeful and often you ask yourself whether some rides are just inept or because of more sinister reasons. The better jocks are off elsewhere and you only have to see the massive gulf in class when the likes of Moore reappear around this time of year.

Your not wrong,polab.

Most of them don't realize that it's a shorter distance around the inside of a bend,or that you can't afford to give a Mark Johnston trained,

Joe Fanning ridden runner a soft lead.

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. All the jockeys know each other, travel to the races together and quite evidently discuss the race/tactics with each other (as we saw with Mulrennan and Dwyer).

It's human nature if jockey A says his is strongly fancied and jockey B says his missed some work last week, then they've almost come to the conclusion pre-race jockey A will win. Does jockey B then give it his full effort or has he told his "mates" that jockey A's horse is the one to be on and rides accordingly?

Horses A and B are the favourites in my example :p

Phil Bull said years ago too little being put in by punters and Levy to sustain those taking out, he was right then and he'd be right now. It took years for the Jockey Club to acknowledge punters and the right to be entertained, it wasn't a closed shop for breeders and owners. Neither is it now but with Qatar putting in about £2million extra in sponsorship why has it seemingly all gone to the Pattern Races? Black type horses pay for themselves at stud if they are hardy enough, such owners do not need to benefit by extra prize money. Windfalls from wherever should find there way down the system and improve racing conditions for those at a lower level.

If the top races don't have good prize money the best horses will end up racing abroad?

Personally I think it's the jockeys and their mates getting all the betting money not necessarily owners.

70% of owners lose money owning horses fact. thats the problem some owners find hard to accept its the greed of connections what spoil the game some have the mindset that they can turn to the exchanges to pay for the training fees which is wrong owning a race horse should be a privilege not a money making opperation i feel betfair should do more surely all the clues are on here

I just think as a punter it's easier to lay Flat, AW and NH. If you can't find 3-4 useless/ready for the knackers yard nags on a miserable Tuesday afto at Fontwell then try something else. Most of the horses on show are total crap. Does it always work? no of course not.

But why try and back the winner, when the losers are far easier to indentify?

In slowly run races then the result is far more open to variance as the slower horses now have more chance of winning from factors other than race pace, most AW races (exc Southwell) would appear to be slow, slow, slow.....two furlong dash for the line.

TheFear's 18:35 post describes the situation perfectly imo. And it's got nothing to do with the surface or the prize money either.

When you consider that one retired Flat jockey who was widely admired for his expert judgement of pace and of the best ground was charging his punters odds to £400, then you realize that it's the bigger races with the stronger betting markets which are most attractive for this sort of arrangement.

TheFear's 18:35 post describes the situation perfectly imo. And it's got nothing to do with the surface or the prize money either.

When you consider that one retired Flat jockey who was widely admired for his expert judgement of pace and of the best ground was charging his punters odds to £400, then you realize that it's the bigger races with the stronger betting markets which are most attractive for this sort of arrangement.

The mistake a lot of punters make on the aw is using ratings literally with no proven decent speedfigures on surfaces there are numerous examples through the season where horses can even win 2 or 3 races by winning falsely run races giving inflated marks.And that's also the beauty of it,there are so many runners that are overbet and for absolutely no reason than a bit of collateral form...

There must've been 6/7 maiden races this week already with short priced favs that had all run in desperately slow races and the majority of them have all been beaten!

Captain Christy
You only have to look at the amount of unplaced favourites

I have kept stats on placed favourites or joint-favourites for quite a while.

Chelmsford  - 59 races - 33 placed (55.93%)

Kempton - 1,776 races - 1,140 placed (64.19%)

Lingfield - 1,705 races - 1,166 placed (68.39%)
(Longest run of unplaced favs or jt-favs is 6.
It has reached 4 losers 32 times, only  got to 5 once, and the next one won.
The last 4 have been unplaced.

Southwell - 902 races - 586 placed (64.97%)

Wolverhampton - Tapeta surface - 533 races - 340 placed (63.79%)


I believe the percentage for placed favs on turf is 60%.

Feb 25, 2015 -- 5:44PM, thegiggilo wrote:

The mistake a lot of punters make on the aw is using ratings literally with no proven decent speedfigures on surfaces there are numerous examples through the season where horses can even win 2 or 3 races by winning falsely run races giving inflated marks.And that's also the beauty of it,there are so many runners that are overbet and for absolutely no reason than a bit of collateral form...

Spot on.
Not to mention the bookmakers and their fake gambles pushing no hoper prices in so the mugs will follow

There are also marked differences between sires progeny on different surfaces.

For example - the 18 sires with the most runners, albeit only 295, on the new Tapeta surface, with no winners yet, have 48 places, a place strike rate of 16.27%

Their combined strike rate on the old surface, with 2,005 runners was 9.77% win and a further 18.1% (48) were placed.

Given the old surface stats, on average they should have had 29 wins and 54 places on Tapeta.

Not much difference in the place rate, but winning seems to be a tad harder for them.

And there are plenty of sires whose progeny can't act on Fibresand at all.

If a trainer wants to get such a horse's mark down, there's no need to get a jockey to take a pull or bury it at the back of the field on polytrack, just run it at Southwell and watch it get beaten while running properly.