Overnight Prices On Here

I should also add that there is £150 to back at about a point below that generally available.
Does this mean that the only people who offer early prices on here are arbers or are they better at setting the true odds?

they don't get up very early , nothing to do till after 12.00...give them another two hours or so

Problem is if you have a job without regular access to a mobile device this place is as much use as the early prices with the firms. If you put a decent bet up before going to work it just sits there acting as a marker.

About time they stopped the early price markets.

not much chance of Betfair stopping them, as there's nothing to be gained by doing so, but it would be nice to get to the point where they are so dead as to be of no use to the bookies as a guide

I wouldn't have thought the overnight markets were very good publicity for betfair. Anyone new might get the wrong impression and be put off completely. As for bookmakers I completely agree,duncan. They only started early prices as an early warning system back in the 70s or 80s.

"They only started early prices .....back in the 70s or 80s." 
--------------

- Yes - But ONLY on .... TELEVISED races on the BBC or Channel 4 - in the 70s

In the 80s they started doing them on the 'better' HANDICAPS ONLY on everyday racing - say the equivalent of Class 5 (Flat) - MINIMUM - and higher.

Even then, though - they did NOT release such Early-Prices until 11 am, in the morning - and then some moved to from 10-30am.

You did NOT get any Early Prices on NON-Handicap races - or LOWER-grade dross - as  nowadays  - so such set-up gambles on LESS than  65 Rated Flat horses were NOT accommodated. ... THEY had to wait until the 'time of race' Market.

The Bookies should revert to such a scenario - as ...

It is only by exposing themselves to the shysters who regularly fiddle about with their horses at that LOWER level  - that the Bookies have ended up running scared in ALL EARLY Price races -

- when there really is NO NEED to do so at Class 4 and better - as most of the people (wanting to)/Punting on THOSE races are doing it from a Form perspective - and NOT some 'corner of the mouth' whispers (wrongly perceived) set-ups.

But nobody can get on - because the Bookies - somewhat deludedly -  think every race has some sort of 'set-up' going on ..... when MOST races - of Class 5/4 and higher -  have NOT.

Excellent post, onlooker. I had completely forgotten that the lower grade handicaps were not covered in the 80s. I do remember taking early prices in some conditions races in the 90s though.

you put up a bet at a price and a bot automatically puts 2 quid in front,it is a complete waste of time correct

low class dross  10 mins before the race is aint post . in my opinion

The treat system told you before... wait until 10 minutes before the off and pounce like a tiger, Charlie Mann needs a kiss, provided us with a treat there at Stratford, form reading 3fpp-... The treat system

Form reading of 3fpp-... money down and pis ses up.. the treat system

What are you gibbering on about?

BF liquidity and prices absolute carp these days until 10 mins before each race. Used to be good but mug layers were soon weeded out and BF commission put paid to margins. Also, as more and more shrewdies have been limited by books the layers on here don´t need to offer tasty prices to get their bets laid.

Last night for example Royale Knight today opened 7-1 with books yesterday and was cut to 9-2 tops by evening. On here it was offered at 5.2. I left a back bet for 5.6 but didn´t get on...If you actually have a job to go to over the day then BF is mostly a waste of space.

´last night...today...yesterday...and evening´ all in one sentence...

tiptheodds some good points there   my advice don't even look at the over night
the REAL  Market is last 4 mins the  pros are on... bookies laying off . all the nod nods wink wink  are known .. that's why I post late and  some guys call it after timing ..no it aint after time,    yes its the last minute  but only when I get matched

the problem is zip that I like to go for decent priced longshots like the first one at Worc yesterday - overnight it was 13.5 here but I took 16-1 with books - of course it touched 23 pre-race on here(and 1000 in running)and won at 11-2.

I just end up marking someones card...

I agree that the market is most reliable 5 minutes before the off on here but there are big prices out there on the overnight markets if u can get them. That is the hard bit obviously.
Hidden gold in the 3.20 lingfield was up at 5/2 last night. Now evens. A lot of the time though they go back out to the original overnight prices just before the off.

Treat System is all I'm saying

Tiptheodds  take your point about marking cards .. but it cost you nothing  you got your bet on  and at a good price ..well done ..same here next month I will have a shot in div 3 .. naps  but I will only post when ive been match ..

I'd enter the naps comp but its the "post an hour before the race start" that puts me off, I like to weigh up the market.

Why don't they seed all the "safer" markets at around the sportsbook prices?

I'd say the overnight / morning markets look like there's as much liquidity as people want. After all, if there are all these backers desperate to get on, why are their bets not sitting on the right hand side of the market, ready for layers to grab?

Fact is, the backers don't want to leave their bets up and yet they moan on here that the layers aren't putting bets up. It's all "Do as I say, not as I do", you hypocrites!

Yes, it'a always been like that. The "Fikkos" have to wait for a price to click on.

I only bet on here and do not have one single bookie account

If I were to place a bet with say billy mountains the night before

How much would I get on , at say, 8/1 ??

Thanks

New account? As much as ya like initially.

Agree, for the 1st 2 weeks to a month, pretty much unlimited but after that restricted to liability of probably 150 and then even further to 50 or less.
Thank you to laddies for the 5/2 about hidden gold!

Make yourself a book for modest stakes. Put it up the night before.
Wait 'till morning.
Back all horses taken.  Disregard those not.

The reduction factors are another issue.

I used to trick around in the morning on some of the relatively safer races at the big meetings when there was still a little bit of liquidity about. A book that was all-green one minute could be all-red the next after a couple of non-runners came through. It simply wasn't worth the time and effort.

I agree with blackwater, total waste of time making your own book, reduction factors destroy hours of hard work, and withdrawals are totally out of your hands.

Lower commission in the morning might help. But they will probably have to do something more radical if they really want to fix the 'ecosystem.'

Maybe the anonymity has to go. Layers will be quicker to take risks if they know who their counterparties are.

PC being charged on Pre Race Traders has brought this about.
Unbridled greed.

"Maybe the anonymity has to go. Layers will be quicker to take risks if they know who their counterparties are"


ROFFL

@Stow_judge "Why don't they seed all the "safer" markets at around the sportsbook prices? "

Looks like they do - within seconds of the green 'priced-up' corner appearing on the Sportsbook market for tomorrow's 1340 Wetherby, the Exchange market was priced up take out about £3k per runner.  Eg Teenage Dream 6.5 on the Sportsbook, on the Exchange £250 available @ 5, £233 @ 5.4, £212 @ 5.8 .  Place market is also seeded with similar amounts.

Of course there's bots jumping in front of those prices with £2 or £3 but if you use the new Racing pages and put the Bet View slider to £50 or £100 you can lose that clutter.

One of the core problems is information asymmetry, racingstar.

Reducing the anonymity would help with that. I don't mean publishing names and addresses, more like average bet size, number of bets, maybe even net P&L.

If I post a monkey bet for a random favourite tomorrow, no one will lay that bet. However, if people could see my P&L, it would be matched in a heartbeat.

I agree there's not much chance of it happening, but a lower level of anonymity would help liquidity.

Blackwater
Not practicable.

And any winning account would never get matched - unworkable.

Was flutter not based on betting against 'mates'? I never used it.
You wouldn't want anymore going on this site anyway, would just cause more outages.

Luvbet used to do most of their business overnight and they soon went skint.
Mornings are useless, as OP says a few quid under the general price. Normally in lumps of £104 or £52. Arbers trying to nick a couple of quid or score a BOG.

You'll not see any early liquidity in this day with PC, 0% reduction factors and visible market depth.

The early market is dead, finnish, kaput.