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Disloyalty is not nice, you were so far up his arris years ago and now this.
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poor bait from opening poster, still one of the best as far as im concerned
The OP seems to change his opinion from race to race.
If this is genuine and not just fishing I knew full well though halfway through the race if Fallon didn't get a run these type of posts would appear.
It reminded me a bit of Excelebration's run in it a few seasons ago where the all wanted to come up the one strip tight to the rail due to the ground but that day Excelebration got the gaps in time and today neither of the Hannon horses did, which is just race riding and luck in running.
The draw didn't help either Hannon horse and neither did having to be held up and so that exaggerated narrowing of the racing ground because of the going made it even more difficult to ensure a clear run.
If this is genuine and not just fishing I knew full well though halfway through the race if Fallon didn't get a run these type of posts would appear.
It reminded me a bit of Excelebration's run in it a few seasons ago where the all wanted to come up the one strip tight to the rail due to the ground but that day Excelebration got the gaps in time and today neither of the Hannon horses did, which is just race riding and luck in running.
The draw didn't help either Hannon horse and neither did having to be held up and so that exaggerated narrowing of the racing ground because of the going made it even more difficult to ensure a clear run.
shocking tactics from fallon.
when they slowed it why not let him stride out settleing him in the process?...rather than pull his head off for 4 furlongs ffs
when they slowed it why not let him stride out settleing him in the process?...rather than pull his head off for 4 furlongs ffs
Well out of order Pandora !
Fallon is the most successful ever, and most naturally talented.
Im sick to death of people slagging fallon with preconceived notions which fuel nonsensical complaints and demeaning attack on fallon
Fallon is the most successful ever, and most naturally talented.
Im sick to death of people slagging fallon with preconceived notions which fuel nonsensical complaints and demeaning attack on fallon
The lowest of the low.....America here we come.....may he have a long stay there....50 years would be very nice....
Whos the only man to win on night of thunder this year?
Thank god for block user.....that's all I say.....
Oh dear, we're having to go back to a ride at the beginning of May to defend him. Regardless of the Guineas result that was a terrible ride today. Fallon is quite clearly a shadow of his former self. Hopefully he'll be off to the States very soon.
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ima_mazed66
ima_mazed66
18 Oct 14 18:33
Joined: 12 Oct 09 | Topic/replies: 7,828 | Blogger: ima_mazed66's blog
And the only man (rider of the horse0 to ever beat Kingman.
ima_mazed66
ima_mazed66
18 Oct 14 18:33
Joined: 12 Oct 09 | Topic/replies: 7,828 | Blogger: ima_mazed66's blog
And the only man (rider of the horse0 to ever beat Kingman.
No we aren't having to go back to May but that just happens to be when the 2000gns was run.
We could also have flagged up any of the 7 group races he has won this year and today's run was merely bad luck in running on a horse that is ridden coming from behind but drawn against the rail when those drawn wide were always going to tack over when the ground was like it was today. The draw Fallon had would have suited a front runner as long as it got out well and forced the pace but seeing as he has never ridden Toormore before then you would have to imagine he was given riding orders to ride the horse from behind as it usually is.
We could also have flagged up any of the 7 group races he has won this year and today's run was merely bad luck in running on a horse that is ridden coming from behind but drawn against the rail when those drawn wide were always going to tack over when the ground was like it was today. The draw Fallon had would have suited a front runner as long as it got out well and forced the pace but seeing as he has never ridden Toormore before then you would have to imagine he was given riding orders to ride the horse from behind as it usually is.
ima,
Fallon gets a lot of stick on this forum because of his perceived past demeanours.
Of course at this late stage of his career he is not the rider he was although he is still capable of winning good races given the right ammunition.
At his age it's a strange decision to go to the USA to re-discover 'the buzz', he looks to be struggling with the thoughts of life out of the saddle. Most of the top ex jockeys retire to a role within racing, i.e. training, media, racing managers etc., this mustn't appeal to Fallon.
Fallon gets a lot of stick on this forum because of his perceived past demeanours.
Of course at this late stage of his career he is not the rider he was although he is still capable of winning good races given the right ammunition.
At his age it's a strange decision to go to the USA to re-discover 'the buzz', he looks to be struggling with the thoughts of life out of the saddle. Most of the top ex jockeys retire to a role within racing, i.e. training, media, racing managers etc., this mustn't appeal to Fallon.
Holywell.....who in gods name would give him a job as a racing manager......what television station would want him anywhere near the screen.....and my god who in their right mind would give him a horse to train....
paulie,
With his experience, knowledge and contacts within the game why couldn't he be a racing manager ?
He may struggle with a tv role because he doesn't need the 'gravy', but, you never know.
When you see some of the current 'low level' trainers there should be no reason why you wouldn't send a horse to Fallon, think of the experience he gained from the Ramsden's.
With his experience, knowledge and contacts within the game why couldn't he be a racing manager ?
He may struggle with a tv role because he doesn't need the 'gravy', but, you never know.
When you see some of the current 'low level' trainers there should be no reason why you wouldn't send a horse to Fallon, think of the experience he gained from the Ramsden's.
Is this the same Toormore that made all the running to win the Craven earlier in the season? He is certainly not a 'hold up' horse. To use that as an excuse for Fallon is a bit pathetic. Even if he decides to hold him up, it doesn't mean he needs to be so far back. In addition to that he then struggled to settle the horse early on and wasn't very proactive at all when things weren't going to plan. It wasn't the worst ride ever but it was still pretty poor. As i said before he's a shadow of his former self. In addition he's become more and more unreliable just turning up at the races.
True Holywell and some of the stick is even justified but far more it it isn't.
He's still good enough just as long as the horse is and jockeys don't deteriorate on a fitness level as they get older as much as in other sports, so you wouldn't get 50 year old footballers or tennis players still competing at the highest level and that's mainly because a jockey is only physically active for short spells during races and then there are lengthy recovery periods until the next race.
Regarding going to America, they way I read it was that last season he was getting a bit demoralised with poor quality rides but then got a buzz from winning the 2000gns and regular rides in classics trials and and classic but his season faded a little for whatever reason and presumably going to America (which I thought he did on a regular basis) is what he is hoping can freshen things up and come back for next season.
One run asparagus doesn't mean that's the type of horse an animal is and it's how it's ridden for the majority of the time that counts and especially in its most recent runs. Read any post-race comments too and many will say it races keenly or took a keen hold. We also don't know what instructions Fallon was given considering he's never ridden the horse before but I offered no "excuses" for the defeat and just reasons.
The horse was drawn on the rail and even in a different section of the stalls meaning it had to race up the rail early and the ground as it was meant everything was going to tack over and lead to a bunched field. Fallon was in the process of getting the horse settled when another runner went across him early, causing the horse to get lit up and turning its head. As for him not being very proactive, he was clearly trying to ease off the rail to get a run and there's no point looking busy in the saddle when you are up the @rses of the ones in front and have nowhere to go. Then as the race quickened and a few gaps appeared Hughes came and took his ground when he was winding up for his own run.
He's not at all a shadow of his former self as he has shown several times this season he is good enough as long as the horse is bar any obvious issues such as luck in running, of which he got very little yesterday although he wasn't the only one on that score.
He's still good enough just as long as the horse is and jockeys don't deteriorate on a fitness level as they get older as much as in other sports, so you wouldn't get 50 year old footballers or tennis players still competing at the highest level and that's mainly because a jockey is only physically active for short spells during races and then there are lengthy recovery periods until the next race.
Regarding going to America, they way I read it was that last season he was getting a bit demoralised with poor quality rides but then got a buzz from winning the 2000gns and regular rides in classics trials and and classic but his season faded a little for whatever reason and presumably going to America (which I thought he did on a regular basis) is what he is hoping can freshen things up and come back for next season.
One run asparagus doesn't mean that's the type of horse an animal is and it's how it's ridden for the majority of the time that counts and especially in its most recent runs. Read any post-race comments too and many will say it races keenly or took a keen hold. We also don't know what instructions Fallon was given considering he's never ridden the horse before but I offered no "excuses" for the defeat and just reasons.
The horse was drawn on the rail and even in a different section of the stalls meaning it had to race up the rail early and the ground as it was meant everything was going to tack over and lead to a bunched field. Fallon was in the process of getting the horse settled when another runner went across him early, causing the horse to get lit up and turning its head. As for him not being very proactive, he was clearly trying to ease off the rail to get a run and there's no point looking busy in the saddle when you are up the @rses of the ones in front and have nowhere to go. Then as the race quickened and a few gaps appeared Hughes came and took his ground when he was winding up for his own run.
He's not at all a shadow of his former self as he has shown several times this season he is good enough as long as the horse is bar any obvious issues such as luck in running, of which he got very little yesterday although he wasn't the only one on that score.
Deary me, if you can't see he's a shadow of his former self then I give up. It's blatantly obvious to the rest of the world.
If you can't see your use of language is the problem then maybe you should give up.
Jockeys who are "a shadow of their former self" don't tend to win classics or half a dozen group races as Fallon has done this year and he's also about to reverse a trend where his number of winners has gone down for each of the past 3 seasons too. Was was he "a shadow of his former self" when he won the 2000gns this season or the Goodwood Cup, Brigadier Gerard, Musidora or the 3 group races including a Gr1 he won in Dubai before the British season started or was it a case of his horses were good enough to win those races and so then so was he?
If you had said he was no longer in his heyday or in the twilight of his career than you would have no argument from me but to say he's a shadow of his former self is way over the top and was Lester a shadow of his former self when he came out of retirement and won several top races? He also might have been in the twilight of his career too but to have said he was a shadow of his former self would have been total nonsense.
Jockeys who are "a shadow of their former self" don't tend to win classics or half a dozen group races as Fallon has done this year and he's also about to reverse a trend where his number of winners has gone down for each of the past 3 seasons too. Was was he "a shadow of his former self" when he won the 2000gns this season or the Goodwood Cup, Brigadier Gerard, Musidora or the 3 group races including a Gr1 he won in Dubai before the British season started or was it a case of his horses were good enough to win those races and so then so was he?
If you had said he was no longer in his heyday or in the twilight of his career than you would have no argument from me but to say he's a shadow of his former self is way over the top and was Lester a shadow of his former self when he came out of retirement and won several top races? He also might have been in the twilight of his career too but to have said he was a shadow of his former self would have been total nonsense.
And the award for pedantic tw@t of the week goes to.....
"At his age it's a strange decision to go to the USA "
Apparently he is only going for the winter......and back next season......but didn't he head to America before when a series of events went spiralling out of control, when too much was happening and he needed to get away. Earlier this season when things were going well he seemed focused and controlled and in a positive state of mind...... needs to stay like that when he comes back next year.
In the twilight of his career, yes, but still good enough. And a lot of problems in the past have been his own making.
Apparently he is only going for the winter......and back next season......but didn't he head to America before when a series of events went spiralling out of control, when too much was happening and he needed to get away. Earlier this season when things were going well he seemed focused and controlled and in a positive state of mind...... needs to stay like that when he comes back next year.
In the twilight of his career, yes, but still good enough. And a lot of problems in the past have been his own making.
Fallon has to be in the top 3 flat jockeys of all time and has certainly been my favourite jockey on the flat but anyone with half a brain can see he is not what he was,even you ima surely !
Fallon has to be in the top 3 flat jockeys of all time and has certainly been my favourite jockey on the flat but anyone with half a brain can see he is not what he was,even you ima surely !
CUFC - Top 10 might even be pushing it if we're talking of 'all time' jockeys...even though I've been a big fan of Fallon since he proved me wrong many years ago when I didn't think he had not just the temperament but the natural ability/talent for the Cecil job...I conceded within a couple of years of that appointment that I was talking through my arse!
I've always believed Johnny Murtagh was one of the best I've seen over the last 35+ years and it seemed to be only in the twilight of his career that he gained such recognition.
To be honest, I though that when Nick Mackay was an apprentice he was the next great pilot so you guys shouldn't take any notice of the balls I write!
In hindsight, I reckon I was pocket talking as I had many big priced winners with him aboard that won me quite a few quid on a regular basis.
I've always believed Johnny Murtagh was one of the best I've seen over the last 35+ years and it seemed to be only in the twilight of his career that he gained such recognition.
To be honest, I though that when Nick Mackay was an apprentice he was the next great pilot so you guys shouldn't take any notice of the balls I write!
In hindsight, I reckon I was pocket talking as I had many big priced winners with him aboard that won me quite a few quid on a regular basis.
PS - as regards Mackay...he was a fantastic apprentice around 2003/4 and he was riding with huge confidence which makes ALL the difference - so many of his rides were straightforwardly ridden which alas, seems a rarity.
The sign of greatness is winning races that you shouldn't and fallons the only jockey I've seen do that,different class to the likes of moore hughes,eddery etc different level..
I would have murtagh in my 1st 7 aswell as Moore,kinane and dettori,can just about remember cauthan,fallon is a bit like McCoy,he used to get horses up that no one else could have !
drlovepants 19 Oct 14 18:02
And the award for pedantic tw@t of the week goes to.....
LOL trust you not to see the obvious!
OK let's just say Southampton beat Sunderland 2-0 and I described that as a total annihilation, humiliation and hammering then would you be a "pedantic tw@t" if you merely pointed that whilst it was certainly a defeat, it's a bit OTT to call it all of those, just as it is to call Fallon a shadow of his former self?
On the other hand, 8-0 would actually be accurate and all of those things above!
cufcno1 20 Oct 14 00:47
Fallon has to be in the top 3 flat jockeys of all time and has certainly been my favourite jockey on the flat but anyone with half a brain can see he is not what he was,even you ima surely !
I've conceded that he's not in his prime but for the vast majority of jockeys it's far more about the horse than the jockey and if the horse is good enough then so is Fallon. You don't win the 2000gns at 40/1 by luck but the horse was good enough on the day and so was the jockey and has gone on to run very well since to suggest it was no fluke either.
Andrew Mullen is hardly seen as a star name jockey by punters and not considered as high profile as Ryan Moore or Jamie Spencer but all 3 won big races at Woodbine yesterday and presumably because all 3 horses were good enough, yet if you swapped every ride Moore and Mullen have had this season then I still expect Mullen to have ridden plenty of Moore's winners because the horse will have been better class than he usually rides.
Navel-Gazer 20 Oct 14 01:35
PS - as regards Mackay...he was a fantastic apprentice around 2003/4 and he was riding with huge confidence which makes ALL the difference - so many of his rides were straightforwardly ridden which alas, seems a rarity.
Nick Mackay has suffered from what I have been saying regarding Oisin Murphy that the crunch comes once these top apprentices lose their claim and can't offer weight concessions to trainers, whereas the next batch of apprentices can and newly fully fledged jockeys can't offer the experience of more established ones either.
Just as important is getting the right high profile job too and I dare say if you put Mackay or Rab Havlin on every John Gosden hotpot horse then they would both have a similar level of success as either Jimmy Fortune or William Buick. As would David Probert, where both he and Buick made a name for themselves at Andrew Balding's and it could just as easily have been Probert going to Gosden's if basing it on riding success alone.
And the award for pedantic tw@t of the week goes to.....
LOL trust you not to see the obvious!
OK let's just say Southampton beat Sunderland 2-0 and I described that as a total annihilation, humiliation and hammering then would you be a "pedantic tw@t" if you merely pointed that whilst it was certainly a defeat, it's a bit OTT to call it all of those, just as it is to call Fallon a shadow of his former self?
On the other hand, 8-0 would actually be accurate and all of those things above!
cufcno1 20 Oct 14 00:47
Fallon has to be in the top 3 flat jockeys of all time and has certainly been my favourite jockey on the flat but anyone with half a brain can see he is not what he was,even you ima surely !
I've conceded that he's not in his prime but for the vast majority of jockeys it's far more about the horse than the jockey and if the horse is good enough then so is Fallon. You don't win the 2000gns at 40/1 by luck but the horse was good enough on the day and so was the jockey and has gone on to run very well since to suggest it was no fluke either.
Andrew Mullen is hardly seen as a star name jockey by punters and not considered as high profile as Ryan Moore or Jamie Spencer but all 3 won big races at Woodbine yesterday and presumably because all 3 horses were good enough, yet if you swapped every ride Moore and Mullen have had this season then I still expect Mullen to have ridden plenty of Moore's winners because the horse will have been better class than he usually rides.
Navel-Gazer 20 Oct 14 01:35
PS - as regards Mackay...he was a fantastic apprentice around 2003/4 and he was riding with huge confidence which makes ALL the difference - so many of his rides were straightforwardly ridden which alas, seems a rarity.
Nick Mackay has suffered from what I have been saying regarding Oisin Murphy that the crunch comes once these top apprentices lose their claim and can't offer weight concessions to trainers, whereas the next batch of apprentices can and newly fully fledged jockeys can't offer the experience of more established ones either.
Just as important is getting the right high profile job too and I dare say if you put Mackay or Rab Havlin on every John Gosden hotpot horse then they would both have a similar level of success as either Jimmy Fortune or William Buick. As would David Probert, where both he and Buick made a name for themselves at Andrew Balding's and it could just as easily have been Probert going to Gosden's if basing it on riding success alone.
Surprising response from you there cufcno1 and think what I wrote was perfectly reasonable and you seem to be in agreement with it too but obviously don't seem to realise it.
Feel free to explain the difference between you saying "he is not what he was" and me agreeing by saying "he's not in his prime" and think maybe you might need to take more water with it in future.
Feel free to explain the difference between you saying "he is not what he was" and me agreeing by saying "he's not in his prime" and think maybe you might need to take more water with it in future.
I have watched too many races this season and thought to myself that was Piss poor from Fallon,why on earth you start going on about sunderland and Southampton has nothin to do with horse racing,are you zodiac's brother ?
Piss poor from Fallon or the horse he was riding? Any specific examples too or is this merely a sweeping generalisation?
The post about Sunderland and Southampton wasn't really meant for you (the clue was I had quoted who it was for) and that was the person suggesting I was being pedantic about taking issue over the use of the phrase "shadow of his former self" which I feel is a gross exaggeration and so then gave my own example of one regarding Southampton v Sunderland. It's called an analogy.
Apart from anything else, when you are judging an individual sport then you are solely comparing a competitor then and now and nothing else, so if you were to say he was a shadow of his former self then that is fair enough but when it's a sport that depends on other factors and not just the individual it's an entirely different matter, which is why someone like Michael Schumacher, one of the greatest F1 drivers ever didn't retire first time around and forget everything to do with driving and that's why his comeback wasn't as successful, it's because he no longer had the best car any more.
If Ryan Moore decided next season he was mainly only going to ride his Dad's runners from now in a similar way that Joseph O'Brien mainly rides just his Dad's and so got nowhere near his normal totals, nor a sniff at a classic or Gr1 winner then would he suddenly become a shadow of his former self or would you say he didn't have the ammo like before?
It is, always has been and always will be far more about the horses than the jockeys and it's getting a bit tedious having to keep repeating that.
The post about Sunderland and Southampton wasn't really meant for you (the clue was I had quoted who it was for) and that was the person suggesting I was being pedantic about taking issue over the use of the phrase "shadow of his former self" which I feel is a gross exaggeration and so then gave my own example of one regarding Southampton v Sunderland. It's called an analogy.
Apart from anything else, when you are judging an individual sport then you are solely comparing a competitor then and now and nothing else, so if you were to say he was a shadow of his former self then that is fair enough but when it's a sport that depends on other factors and not just the individual it's an entirely different matter, which is why someone like Michael Schumacher, one of the greatest F1 drivers ever didn't retire first time around and forget everything to do with driving and that's why his comeback wasn't as successful, it's because he no longer had the best car any more.
If Ryan Moore decided next season he was mainly only going to ride his Dad's runners from now in a similar way that Joseph O'Brien mainly rides just his Dad's and so got nowhere near his normal totals, nor a sniff at a classic or Gr1 winner then would he suddenly become a shadow of his former self or would you say he didn't have the ammo like before?
It is, always has been and always will be far more about the horses than the jockeys and it's getting a bit tedious having to keep repeating that.
thegiggilo
I could not agree with you more, the best since Lester and while its true his best is a stranger to him , the nonsense he is accused of with regard to cheating is just absurd in the extreme.
I could not agree with you more, the best since Lester and while its true his best is a stranger to him , the nonsense he is accused of with regard to cheating is just absurd in the extreme.
What I admire about KF is that he's always been so clean, never needed to throw a race for the sake of a quick buck and never ever been involved in controversy.
Yes,
Apart from the Stuart Webster incident I'm struggling to think of any other controversies he's been involved in.
Apart from the Stuart Webster incident I'm struggling to think of any other controversies he's been involved in.
Yes apart from the ballinger ridge.....henry cecil....and too many more to mention...
Top Cees and the court case involving discredited witness Derek Thompson.
of course he won on Top Cees but 'unfortunately' managed to find a lot of trouble in running in the races preceding the win.
holywell 21 Oct 14 18:42
Yes,
Apart from the Stuart Webster incident I'm struggling to think of any other controversies he's been involved in.
I've heard but don't know if true that apparently Webster was a bit of a weighing room bully and tried to put a young jockey over the rail in that race and caused danger to the rest of the jockeys, so that's why Fallon pulled him off of his horse after the race. Fallon also has a reputation of looking after young jockeys and being generous towards them too.
It carried on in the weighing room between the two of them where Webster ended up with a broken nose and then when the clerk of the course tried to mediate and get them to shake hands, Fallon was prepared to but Webster didn't want to. Webster claimed in the New of the World that he had been the victim of an unprovoked attack from Fallon and although he (Fallon) never denied their fight, he said he acted in self-defence. The NotW (whatever happened to that fine newspaper?) had to pay Fallon undisclosed damages and later a book titled "Kieren Fallon - The Biography of the Controversial Jockey" repeated Webster's allegation and so copies had to be recalled from the shelves.
Anyone would think the NotW had a motive to go after Fallon all that eh?
paulie wallnuts 21 Oct 14 18:55
Yes apart from the ballinger ridge.....henry cecil....and too many more to mention...
Go on then paulie numbnuts, amuse us with what you think you know then.
curious-cat 21 Oct 14 21:05
Top Cees and the court case involving discredited witness Derek Thompson.
The irony is whilst Thompson's evidence seemed OTT and iffy at best, there probably was a case to answer there.
Yes,
Apart from the Stuart Webster incident I'm struggling to think of any other controversies he's been involved in.
I've heard but don't know if true that apparently Webster was a bit of a weighing room bully and tried to put a young jockey over the rail in that race and caused danger to the rest of the jockeys, so that's why Fallon pulled him off of his horse after the race. Fallon also has a reputation of looking after young jockeys and being generous towards them too.
It carried on in the weighing room between the two of them where Webster ended up with a broken nose and then when the clerk of the course tried to mediate and get them to shake hands, Fallon was prepared to but Webster didn't want to. Webster claimed in the New of the World that he had been the victim of an unprovoked attack from Fallon and although he (Fallon) never denied their fight, he said he acted in self-defence. The NotW (whatever happened to that fine newspaper?) had to pay Fallon undisclosed damages and later a book titled "Kieren Fallon - The Biography of the Controversial Jockey" repeated Webster's allegation and so copies had to be recalled from the shelves.
Anyone would think the NotW had a motive to go after Fallon all that eh?
paulie wallnuts 21 Oct 14 18:55
Yes apart from the ballinger ridge.....henry cecil....and too many more to mention...
Go on then paulie numbnuts, amuse us with what you think you know then.
curious-cat 21 Oct 14 21:05
Top Cees and the court case involving discredited witness Derek Thompson.
The irony is whilst Thompson's evidence seemed OTT and iffy at best, there probably was a case to answer there.
Surely no one can argue that Fallon was anything less than a terrific jockey - on the other hand, surely no one can argue that he has been his own worst enemy on more than one occasion - I would imagine that deep down he has many regrets - history will never place him as an all time great.
Hearing the Ballinger Ridge incident repeated again drives me to despair - he made a mistake - no more than that - suggesting that getting beaten an inch travelling at 35mph was deliberate is totally ridiculous.
Hearing the Ballinger Ridge incident repeated again drives me to despair - he made a mistake - no more than that - suggesting that getting beaten an inch travelling at 35mph was deliberate is totally ridiculous.
The only thing I disagree with above crepello is suggesting history will never place him as an all time great but would be interested to hear why you feel that.
Come on every one who no`s anything about racing has to admit fallon was unbelievable for 12years he was the best since lester
ima - All Time Greats has to be by definition a very short list - Fallon was the best jockey of his generation - is that enough to be considered an all time great?
I do not want to get into a long discussion of the merits of riders because usually these debates are coloured by more recent events (I have been around a while!!) which is very understandable.
I do not want to get into a long discussion of the merits of riders because usually these debates are coloured by more recent events (I have been around a while!!) which is very understandable.
I would still have Kinane and Murtagh ahead of him any day of the week, both on and off the track.
Look you cant do it without the horse,
When he was plying his trade with ramsden etc in the north he was not considered the big cheddar.
He got lucky and started riding for cecil when cecil had a very good string.
If any other competent jock had got the job you would be saying the same about him.
You cant do it without the horse.
When he was plying his trade with ramsden etc in the north he was not considered the big cheddar.
He got lucky and started riding for cecil when cecil had a very good string.
If any other competent jock had got the job you would be saying the same about him.
You cant do it without the horse.
A great jockey in his prime. How do we want our heroes, squeaky clean? No thanks. Some of the greatest sportsmen in history have all had an element of 'flawed genius' about them. And that's why we love them.
The problem is with Fallon it's not just an element. It's a recurring theme.
I suppose crepello it will all depend on how short you want that list to be but I'd certainly have him as an all time great anyway.
You don't get lucky and get a job like Cecil's flushgordon1, you've usually done something that catches the eye and puts you in the frame.
Winning group races for the Ramsden's like the Solario (Island Magic) and Gimcrack (Chilly Billy last to first) and in the process beaten big name owner/trainer/jockey combos like Sheikh Mo/Loder/Detttori, Hamdan/Hern/Carson, Maktoum Al Maktoum/Stoute/Swinburn, Sangster/PC-H/Reid and Highclere/Hannon/Eddery as well as the Cherry Hinton for Stoute on Dazzle plus showing he could get the job done in high pressure situations like Top Cees in the Chester Cup meant he was always going to be snapped up by a top yard regardless, although Stoute looked the more obvious one at the time though.
It might well be a recurring theme asparagus and he's clearly a flawed human being and his own worst enemy but he's nowhere near as bad as some make out and many of the things he's got grief for just weren't the case. The stuff he has done is fair enough though and down to him alone.
It's never been proved that he was the jockey involved in the Cecil domestic affair although it was supposed to have happened in a hotel in Ireland on a day Fallon was riding for Henry Cecil at Goodwood and Cecil later had to pay him damages for unfair dismissal. The Ballinger Ridge scenario was a total embarrassment when anyone who knows the first thing about British racing (so that excludes the Met Police and their star witness Aussie steward) and the owner who punched him claiming Fallon had hampered his horse during a race later admitted he got that wrong and wrote a later of apology to Fallon.
Maybe just another case of an easy target due to his reputation eh?
You don't get lucky and get a job like Cecil's flushgordon1, you've usually done something that catches the eye and puts you in the frame.
Winning group races for the Ramsden's like the Solario (Island Magic) and Gimcrack (Chilly Billy last to first) and in the process beaten big name owner/trainer/jockey combos like Sheikh Mo/Loder/Detttori, Hamdan/Hern/Carson, Maktoum Al Maktoum/Stoute/Swinburn, Sangster/PC-H/Reid and Highclere/Hannon/Eddery as well as the Cherry Hinton for Stoute on Dazzle plus showing he could get the job done in high pressure situations like Top Cees in the Chester Cup meant he was always going to be snapped up by a top yard regardless, although Stoute looked the more obvious one at the time though.
It might well be a recurring theme asparagus and he's clearly a flawed human being and his own worst enemy but he's nowhere near as bad as some make out and many of the things he's got grief for just weren't the case. The stuff he has done is fair enough though and down to him alone.
It's never been proved that he was the jockey involved in the Cecil domestic affair although it was supposed to have happened in a hotel in Ireland on a day Fallon was riding for Henry Cecil at Goodwood and Cecil later had to pay him damages for unfair dismissal. The Ballinger Ridge scenario was a total embarrassment when anyone who knows the first thing about British racing (so that excludes the Met Police and their star witness Aussie steward) and the owner who punched him claiming Fallon had hampered his horse during a race later admitted he got that wrong and wrote a later of apology to Fallon.
Maybe just another case of an easy target due to his reputation eh?
Yes clearly the Ballinger Ridge race was just one of those amazing coincidences. The very race that he tells a journalist to back another horse (Rye) in what the betting suggests is a 2 horse race and then he eases down heavily prematurely and gets caught on the line. How unlucky can you get?
I'm a little bit embarrassed here for you if I'm honest asparagus and this is the perfect example of someone either getting the gist of what was said but not what actually what was or someone letting the media form their views for them.
He didn't "tip" Rye to win, he suggested he thought it was the one to beat and that he didn't strongly fancy his own mount and considering Rye was the 8/11f and the 17 times raced but still a maiden Ballinger Ridge was 15/8 2f, the next in the betting was 9/1 and then everything else was either 20s, 25s, 33s, 50s and 66s then ask any jockey in a race where the fav is odds-on which one does he thinks will win/is the danger and I'm sure they will say that odds-on fav too.
Plus yes, clearly the tactic to use when trying to deliberately get one beaten isn't to drop it out last, get behind other runners and boxed in on the rail when everyone's attention is on what's going on up front and instead it's to go off 15L clear and then drop your hands so that another runner can pass you. It's also a bit odd to have to pull another horse to ensure the 8/11f will win and isn't it usually the 8/11f being pulled instead?
Fallon made a human error c0ck up and nothing else. He was about a horse's width off the rail and looked over his right shoulder where everything else was racing towards the middle of the track except the fav which was in his slipstream and tight on the rail and he didn't see it. He would have needed to look over his left shoulder to do that but once not seeing the fav, that's when he began to ease his own horse. The fav then moves off of the rail and Fallon looks again over his right shoulder, sees the fav which is now in the middle of the course too and you immediately see him panic via his body language and try to get the horse going again but is beaten a nose in the end and if anyone thinks that a jockey supposed to throw a race can judge it that narrowly then they are seriously deluded.
Oh and just for good measure, the 21 day ban he got caused him to miss the Dubai World Cup that year which I'm sure was potentially worth more to him than any inducement to throw a two bob race on the AW. I'm also no expert on arranging for jockeys to throw races for financial gain but if I were to try to arrange it and have it creep under the radar, then I'm not really sure going to one of the highest profile jockeys, the then current Champion Jockey, then current Derby winner and about to win it again a few months later and multiple Gr1 jockey in races all over the world would be my first choice of candidate. You only have to compare the profile and status of Fallon compared to the jockeys who have been warned off to see how laughable it is.
Mazher Mahmood, known as the Fake Sheikh who posed as a potential owner willing to invest a lot of money in the sport and the New of the World have been totally discredited over this affair, as well as on several other occasions such as a so-called plot to kidnap Victoria Beckham, fictional dirty bomb terrorist scenarios and his case against Tulisa Contostavlos was thrown out of court when his integrity was totally demolished as a fantasist and liar.
He didn't "tip" Rye to win, he suggested he thought it was the one to beat and that he didn't strongly fancy his own mount and considering Rye was the 8/11f and the 17 times raced but still a maiden Ballinger Ridge was 15/8 2f, the next in the betting was 9/1 and then everything else was either 20s, 25s, 33s, 50s and 66s then ask any jockey in a race where the fav is odds-on which one does he thinks will win/is the danger and I'm sure they will say that odds-on fav too.
Plus yes, clearly the tactic to use when trying to deliberately get one beaten isn't to drop it out last, get behind other runners and boxed in on the rail when everyone's attention is on what's going on up front and instead it's to go off 15L clear and then drop your hands so that another runner can pass you. It's also a bit odd to have to pull another horse to ensure the 8/11f will win and isn't it usually the 8/11f being pulled instead?
Fallon made a human error c0ck up and nothing else. He was about a horse's width off the rail and looked over his right shoulder where everything else was racing towards the middle of the track except the fav which was in his slipstream and tight on the rail and he didn't see it. He would have needed to look over his left shoulder to do that but once not seeing the fav, that's when he began to ease his own horse. The fav then moves off of the rail and Fallon looks again over his right shoulder, sees the fav which is now in the middle of the course too and you immediately see him panic via his body language and try to get the horse going again but is beaten a nose in the end and if anyone thinks that a jockey supposed to throw a race can judge it that narrowly then they are seriously deluded.
Oh and just for good measure, the 21 day ban he got caused him to miss the Dubai World Cup that year which I'm sure was potentially worth more to him than any inducement to throw a two bob race on the AW. I'm also no expert on arranging for jockeys to throw races for financial gain but if I were to try to arrange it and have it creep under the radar, then I'm not really sure going to one of the highest profile jockeys, the then current Champion Jockey, then current Derby winner and about to win it again a few months later and multiple Gr1 jockey in races all over the world would be my first choice of candidate. You only have to compare the profile and status of Fallon compared to the jockeys who have been warned off to see how laughable it is.
Mazher Mahmood, known as the Fake Sheikh who posed as a potential owner willing to invest a lot of money in the sport and the New of the World have been totally discredited over this affair, as well as on several other occasions such as a so-called plot to kidnap Victoria Beckham, fictional dirty bomb terrorist scenarios and his case against Tulisa Contostavlos was thrown out of court when his integrity was totally demolished as a fantasist and liar.
jesus ima..get a bloody life and stop wanting to shag Fallon..
what is your connection with fellon?because THERE MUST BE ONE..
The reason Fallon only got beat an inch or so on BR is because he nearly fkd it up. He got 'lucky' in the end.
Sometimes trying to get one beat goes wrong, just ask Fergal Lynch.
Sometimes trying to get one beat goes wrong, just ask Fergal Lynch.
Going off to fast (ala BR) IS one of the many ways they try and get them beat.
Starfish, yes some of us are aware that there is more than one way to get a horse beat.
If shag is another way of saying fcuk Colonel Trautman then with some of their posts there are plenty of people that actually do want to fcuk Fallon almost as much as the News of the World tried to. No connection either, just not a drama queen or a sheep who needs those in the media to give me my opinions.
Pointing out that numerous people on here who seemingly don't like Fallon so talk complete nonsense when it comes to him doesn't mean anyone who points that nonsense out wants to shag him either by the way. As for me "getting a life" then like I keep saying, it's not me who starts these thread on him regarding a race that took place a decade ago so maybe your suggestion needs to be aimed elsewhere.
Nonsense such as starfish and coffee has just posted above and asparagus agreed with where the flaw in that argument is that if Fallon was still in front at the 1f pole and eased thinking he had won but then starts to ride his horse again with ½f to go to get beaten by a nostril then he clearly didn't go off too fast. Had he blasted out and lead for half of the race, got headed and then passed by the whole field to finish last then you might actually have a point.....and that's not even taking into consideration that Fallon is very unlikely to have misjudged the pace so that he might have accidentally won considering how well he rides from the front. Plus every Hollywood director who ever makes a film about racing and needs a horse to either win or get beaten by a nostril in one take should be hiring Fallon if people laughably believe he can judge it that finely.
Fergal Lynch set out to make the running and was hoping to take it easy as other runners went by but nothing was good enough to do so despite the race being run 1.67s slower than average but he certainly didn't build up the substantial kind of lead that Fallon did on Ballinger Ridge. The post race comments for Lynch's horse that day Family Affair was:
Led, quickened over 3f out, kept on well, eased near finish, unchallenged (op 11-2)
It came back with an SP of 9/1 so clearly drifted.
Then when he had to throw a race later that day to make up for the loss, he did so on Bond City where the post race comments were:
Tracked leaders on inner, switched right approaching final furlong, not quicken inside final furlong (op 7-2 tchd 5-1 and 11-2 in places)
So plenty of effort to not get a run and then switch late and the price also drifted too.
Another of Lynch's rides brought up in the court case was on CD Europe in a 5f race which is basically point and shoot and not really much time for tactics.
Steadied at start, soon detached, switched and raced wide, switched right and stayed on inside final furlong, never near to challenge (op 12-1 tchd 20-1 in places)
Ballinger Ridge according to the Racing Post opened 7-4 tchd 9-4 and 5-2 in places and returned an SP of 15/8 so hardly a massive drift or suspicious betting patterns eh?)
I have no problem whatsoever with punters crucifying corrupt jockeys and am not particularly comfortable with Lynch riding again, as conning punters to lose their money is the lowest of the low for jockeys but how about concentrating on the ones where that actually is the case rather than a jockey making a human error c0ck up, as Fallon did on Ballinger Ridge?
Just a suggestion.
Pointing out that numerous people on here who seemingly don't like Fallon so talk complete nonsense when it comes to him doesn't mean anyone who points that nonsense out wants to shag him either by the way. As for me "getting a life" then like I keep saying, it's not me who starts these thread on him regarding a race that took place a decade ago so maybe your suggestion needs to be aimed elsewhere.
Nonsense such as starfish and coffee has just posted above and asparagus agreed with where the flaw in that argument is that if Fallon was still in front at the 1f pole and eased thinking he had won but then starts to ride his horse again with ½f to go to get beaten by a nostril then he clearly didn't go off too fast. Had he blasted out and lead for half of the race, got headed and then passed by the whole field to finish last then you might actually have a point.....and that's not even taking into consideration that Fallon is very unlikely to have misjudged the pace so that he might have accidentally won considering how well he rides from the front. Plus every Hollywood director who ever makes a film about racing and needs a horse to either win or get beaten by a nostril in one take should be hiring Fallon if people laughably believe he can judge it that finely.
Fergal Lynch set out to make the running and was hoping to take it easy as other runners went by but nothing was good enough to do so despite the race being run 1.67s slower than average but he certainly didn't build up the substantial kind of lead that Fallon did on Ballinger Ridge. The post race comments for Lynch's horse that day Family Affair was:
Led, quickened over 3f out, kept on well, eased near finish, unchallenged (op 11-2)
It came back with an SP of 9/1 so clearly drifted.
Then when he had to throw a race later that day to make up for the loss, he did so on Bond City where the post race comments were:
Tracked leaders on inner, switched right approaching final furlong, not quicken inside final furlong (op 7-2 tchd 5-1 and 11-2 in places)
So plenty of effort to not get a run and then switch late and the price also drifted too.
Another of Lynch's rides brought up in the court case was on CD Europe in a 5f race which is basically point and shoot and not really much time for tactics.
Steadied at start, soon detached, switched and raced wide, switched right and stayed on inside final furlong, never near to challenge (op 12-1 tchd 20-1 in places)
Ballinger Ridge according to the Racing Post opened 7-4 tchd 9-4 and 5-2 in places and returned an SP of 15/8 so hardly a massive drift or suspicious betting patterns eh?)
I have no problem whatsoever with punters crucifying corrupt jockeys and am not particularly comfortable with Lynch riding again, as conning punters to lose their money is the lowest of the low for jockeys but how about concentrating on the ones where that actually is the case rather than a jockey making a human error c0ck up, as Fallon did on Ballinger Ridge?
Just a suggestion.
"Led, quickened over 3f out, kept on well, eased near finish, unchallenged (op 11-2)"
"Tracked leaders on inner, switched right approaching final furlong, not quicken inside final furlong (op 7-2 tchd 5-1 and 11-2 in places)"
"Steadied at start, soon detached, switched and raced wide, switched right and stayed on inside final furlong, never near to challenge (op 12-1 tchd 20-1 in places)"
Are you getting these comments from newspaper i.e Racing Post or some other media based opinion?
It is just that when you say things like this, and I quote " just not a drama queen or a sheep who needs those in the media to give me my opinions" it makes you out to be a bit of a hypocrite.
The Racing Post's analysis of a race is usually nonsense or at least watered down when it comes to stating how a non jigger ran for obvious reasons
"Tracked leaders on inner, switched right approaching final furlong, not quicken inside final furlong (op 7-2 tchd 5-1 and 11-2 in places)"
"Steadied at start, soon detached, switched and raced wide, switched right and stayed on inside final furlong, never near to challenge (op 12-1 tchd 20-1 in places)"
Are you getting these comments from newspaper i.e Racing Post or some other media based opinion?
It is just that when you say things like this, and I quote " just not a drama queen or a sheep who needs those in the media to give me my opinions" it makes you out to be a bit of a hypocrite.
The Racing Post's analysis of a race is usually nonsense or at least watered down when it comes to stating how a non jigger ran for obvious reasons
"the flaw in that argument is that if Fallon was still in front at the 1f pole and eased thinking he had won but then starts to ride his horse again with ½f to go to get beaten by a nostril then he clearly didn't go off too fast"
If you think anyone can get a horse to run on again, up to a finishing speed in half a furlong then you clearly have less of a clue about race reading than first thought. Once Fallon has eased down a furlong out and a horse closing hand over fist is still riding full pelt, it is going to take some horse to stop the 2nd going past in under half a furlong.
Imo and many others, Fallon got very lucky that day coming 2nd. To sat it is nonsense just because you don't see it that way sums you up.
If you think anyone can get a horse to run on again, up to a finishing speed in half a furlong then you clearly have less of a clue about race reading than first thought. Once Fallon has eased down a furlong out and a horse closing hand over fist is still riding full pelt, it is going to take some horse to stop the 2nd going past in under half a furlong.
Imo and many others, Fallon got very lucky that day coming 2nd. To sat it is nonsense just because you don't see it that way sums you up.
"Plus every Hollywood director who ever makes a film about racing and needs a horse to either win or get beaten by a nostril in one take should be hiring Fallon if people laughably believe he can judge it that finely."
That is the whole point, he didn't judge it that finely. He near ballsed it up. Imo of course.
That is the whole point, he didn't judge it that finely. He near ballsed it up. Imo of course.
I form my own opinions starfish and coffee and then use facts provided by the media to support them.
It's not the Racing Post's "opinion" that a horse took the lead in a race or was held up, drifted in the market or returned at a certain SP, they are reporting facts and opinions and facts are two completely different things, opinions can be quibbled but facts can't, so I'm afraid your hypocrite claim is as much nonsense as your one that Fallon got lucky to lose and nearly ballsed it up on Ballinger Ridge. Why even chance that though by going to the front when there are far easier and safer ways to do it?
The Racing Post might or might not have known Fergal Lynch's mounts were non-jiggers when doing their post race summary but they aren't going to be as inaccurate to say a horse was held up when it made the running and vice versa, so whilst maybe not casting any aspersions as to whether the horse raced to win, they will still report accurately the detail and manner in which it ran its race.
And yes me telling you that you are talking nonsense does sum me up, it sums me up as someone willing to say when someone else is talking nonsense and Fallon was charged over supposedly throwing 27 races, of which he actually won 6 of them, costing the laying syndicate £160k in one race alone, so that's a winning strike rate of around 22% of races he was deliberately trying to lose apparently, which is a strike rate that any jockey trying to win would be proud of but let me guess, he ballsed those up too and got unlucky did he?
One of the races he won on was Daring Aim:
Reluctant to start and whirling tail, soon led, cajoled and looked awkward from over 1f out, nursed along to hold persistent challenger, fine ride (op 5-2)
Clearly a horse that if Fallon ever wanted to get it beaten where he would have genuine reasons to lose then it was this one and yet he beat the 8/11f on it.
The Aussie steward the prosecution used as their star witness said he would have called an inquiry even on races Fallon won such as on Beauvrai, another winner the laying syndicate layed and lost on where he claimed Fallon had "used extreme tactics to try to lose on a horse that was clearly superior." He held the horse up before coming from behind to win and that's extreme tactics?
Fallon was apparently being asked about the prospects of his mounts by a certain Newmarket barman and he would tell him whether he thought they had a chance or not. That barman would then lay the ones that didn't get a positive mention and later got in with an owner who has been warned off previously for laying his own horses. 21 of the 27 horses Fallon didn't think would win didn't but those 6 did, including Daring Aim that was 2nd fav to the 8/11f the same way Ballinger Ridge was 2nd fav to 8/11f Rye and if Fallon didn't think Daring Aim would win then take a wild guess as to the one he felt was the danger. I'm going out on a limb here and suggesting the 8/11f just as he said Rye at 8/11f was the danger to Ballinger Ridge. One 2nd fav he won on and another he got beaten on after a human error, so the syndicate won lost on one and won on the other.
Beauvrai he only rode once and doubt he ever rode it at work for the trainer Vic Smith so probably wouldn't have known much about it to give it a positive mention.
Levitator was another winner that was still a maiden after 5 starts until Fallon won on its 6th and would he strongly recommend a horse of that profile? His horse was also 2nd fav that day too.
Barking Mad was another 2nd fav winner they layed that won at 9/2 after opening at 5/2 and drifting out to 5/1.
And the syndicate's biggest individual loss was when Fallon got Russian Rhythm up on the line in the Lockinge despite being headed late on. She was making her seasona debut for that race in mid-May having been off the course for 7 months and was up against race fit rivals, some that had already run twice that season and had won too. Is it too much of a stretch of the imagination to think Fallon felt she might need the race and certainly couldn't have been given as a certainty? If the syndicate then layed it but he won on it then........
It was actually 17 races the syndicate layed in but he won on 6 of them (27 was the full number the court case looked into) so that's even worse for the syndicate if his winning strike rate when supposedly trying to lose was 35% and exactly what would your reaction be if you were paying a jockey to lose races and he ended up winning more than 1 in every 3? How many winners would he have to win on and how much money would you have to lose before you considered the arrangement maybe wasn't working?
Unless of course Fallon had no idea his mounts were being layed and was beaten on the ones not good enough but won on the ones that were.
It's not the Racing Post's "opinion" that a horse took the lead in a race or was held up, drifted in the market or returned at a certain SP, they are reporting facts and opinions and facts are two completely different things, opinions can be quibbled but facts can't, so I'm afraid your hypocrite claim is as much nonsense as your one that Fallon got lucky to lose and nearly ballsed it up on Ballinger Ridge. Why even chance that though by going to the front when there are far easier and safer ways to do it?
The Racing Post might or might not have known Fergal Lynch's mounts were non-jiggers when doing their post race summary but they aren't going to be as inaccurate to say a horse was held up when it made the running and vice versa, so whilst maybe not casting any aspersions as to whether the horse raced to win, they will still report accurately the detail and manner in which it ran its race.
And yes me telling you that you are talking nonsense does sum me up, it sums me up as someone willing to say when someone else is talking nonsense and Fallon was charged over supposedly throwing 27 races, of which he actually won 6 of them, costing the laying syndicate £160k in one race alone, so that's a winning strike rate of around 22% of races he was deliberately trying to lose apparently, which is a strike rate that any jockey trying to win would be proud of but let me guess, he ballsed those up too and got unlucky did he?
One of the races he won on was Daring Aim:
Reluctant to start and whirling tail, soon led, cajoled and looked awkward from over 1f out, nursed along to hold persistent challenger, fine ride (op 5-2)
Clearly a horse that if Fallon ever wanted to get it beaten where he would have genuine reasons to lose then it was this one and yet he beat the 8/11f on it.
The Aussie steward the prosecution used as their star witness said he would have called an inquiry even on races Fallon won such as on Beauvrai, another winner the laying syndicate layed and lost on where he claimed Fallon had "used extreme tactics to try to lose on a horse that was clearly superior." He held the horse up before coming from behind to win and that's extreme tactics?
Fallon was apparently being asked about the prospects of his mounts by a certain Newmarket barman and he would tell him whether he thought they had a chance or not. That barman would then lay the ones that didn't get a positive mention and later got in with an owner who has been warned off previously for laying his own horses. 21 of the 27 horses Fallon didn't think would win didn't but those 6 did, including Daring Aim that was 2nd fav to the 8/11f the same way Ballinger Ridge was 2nd fav to 8/11f Rye and if Fallon didn't think Daring Aim would win then take a wild guess as to the one he felt was the danger. I'm going out on a limb here and suggesting the 8/11f just as he said Rye at 8/11f was the danger to Ballinger Ridge. One 2nd fav he won on and another he got beaten on after a human error, so the syndicate won lost on one and won on the other.
Beauvrai he only rode once and doubt he ever rode it at work for the trainer Vic Smith so probably wouldn't have known much about it to give it a positive mention.
Levitator was another winner that was still a maiden after 5 starts until Fallon won on its 6th and would he strongly recommend a horse of that profile? His horse was also 2nd fav that day too.
Barking Mad was another 2nd fav winner they layed that won at 9/2 after opening at 5/2 and drifting out to 5/1.
And the syndicate's biggest individual loss was when Fallon got Russian Rhythm up on the line in the Lockinge despite being headed late on. She was making her seasona debut for that race in mid-May having been off the course for 7 months and was up against race fit rivals, some that had already run twice that season and had won too. Is it too much of a stretch of the imagination to think Fallon felt she might need the race and certainly couldn't have been given as a certainty? If the syndicate then layed it but he won on it then........
It was actually 17 races the syndicate layed in but he won on 6 of them (27 was the full number the court case looked into) so that's even worse for the syndicate if his winning strike rate when supposedly trying to lose was 35% and exactly what would your reaction be if you were paying a jockey to lose races and he ended up winning more than 1 in every 3? How many winners would he have to win on and how much money would you have to lose before you considered the arrangement maybe wasn't working?
Unless of course Fallon had no idea his mounts were being layed and was beaten on the ones not good enough but won on the ones that were.
Can this conversation be held over until he rides here again????????????
LOL starfish and coffee translation meaning you have made nonsense points and been put right on them and so that's the best you can come back with now despite you yourselves having made 4 back to back posts.....Er.
No, genuinely meaning they winter nights must fly in
And er, rather than start a new thread you just happened to choose this one to say so......some people might consider that yet more nonsense eh? 
Sorry I missed your amusing little "analogy" about the mighty Sunderland Ima, I was away in sanny essix on courses and other sh1te. Proper witch-burning country it was with no access to wi-fi, hence no betfair.
Tickled me tho...
Tickled me tho...
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