Betfair and jobseekers.

if they get you on this you realise your  amounts could lead to a custodial, esp if you were b ent at the outset?

Won of the best fishin' fred's of all time !


Total p!ss take !   

'  esp if you were b ent at the outset? '     

Well they may well have me by the short & curlys regarding savings, but how would they work that out? I have been over the threshold, between it, below it, don't forget it's pro rata 7k ish to 18k ish, so someone will need to have a calculator and some serious patience to work out what I owe. (or will they claim that a few times over will cover the full 4 year period?)

Hd,
You are assuming the Op is not a brainless,sponging moron.
Either way,The DHSS will have Coopermans details by Monday

hal that did cross my mind that he was fishing but if he's not he's fecked and as you know i like helping basket cases lol

Have to laugh when people bring up multinationals and bankers. Whats that got to go with benefit fraud? The multinationals and the banking community pay huge real sums in tax. What has the OP put into the system the last four years?

How much commission has he paid, frog2?

He has contributed towards Betfair's profit, who in turn have paid tax on it, so in directly he has paid his taxes, so to speak

* indirectly

How would you fare in that position in America?

http://www.butler-co.co.uk/articles/Tax-Free-Gambling-And-Betfairs-Technical...

I have read right through the whole thread now.
'Twas very interesting to see how much emotion was generated on both sides.

We had the stereotypical btfr forum dossers versus the crusty old, indignant, reactionary btfr millionaires.

In conclusion, I thank all for the amusement the thread has provided, but feel 'twas a total wind-up right from the start.

Well done, cooperman! Ye got them all going.

For the dodgers ( any who haven't bailed out to the new, secret, arsebanditry club, that is) the harm done by the thread is that it has given the authorities an insight into what might be going on. This, despite one dude advising such things on the forum as "keep it stum".

And for genuine, old-fashioned punters, the possible good done by the thread could lead to more of the dreaded arbers getting exposed and fkd off the scene.
This could lead to better prices and more betting opportunities, perhaps.

However, even if the OP is not on the wind-up, I very much doubt if any tangible improvement will be experienced by most of us any time soon.

Who knows?
These anonymous fora can be bstrds, but they can be informative too.
All the best, everybody!

Won of the best fishin' fred's of all time !


Total p!ss take !   Laugh






agreed   

Fisting thread ?

bird bath salmon ?   

No glasses   

someone with a strategically placed swallow tattoo can create the bird bath motion during fisting for those that don't know 

Haven't you admitted that you're arbing Cooperman?

I shall not ask how YOU know alleged     

no me salmon but I saw the video    not nice

not*

at's immoral is someone working, or renting out property, etc, whilst claiming jobseekers. Now let's assume you were claiming jobseekers and started to win regular money on here, are we led to believe you'd be on the phone to dwp to inform them of your new found wealth? THING'S CAN GO HORRIBLY WRONG ON HERE AS I CAN TESTIFY TO.

Totally fishing. Should probably be looking for a job still though...

cooperman and blunderwoman 


http://www.bluekipper.com/images_matchreport/
1287755613-db_cooperman___blunderwoman2.jpg

Maybe we'll never get to the bottom of this particular case, but, imo, there must be plenty of btfr "sharper brains" who are arbers whilst getting some sort of state benefits.

Also there must be several others who are co ck-lodgers, and get the free lie-down that way, but, I'd guess that the biggest proportion of arbers - besides insider dealers affiliated to the racing industry _ are in the "pharmaceutical" trade.

Others may just have inherited a tidy wedge when the old parents died. They probably sold the gaff and moved into a free co ck-lodge with a boyfriend from the new, secret, arsebanditry club, founded recently by cha vman, or wherever.

Who knows ( besides the btfr employees, that is)?
They must know plenty, I'd say.

It was always at the back of my mind it could be a fishing thread but on the whole I thought it probably wasn't. It is quite easy to see how this sort of situation could arise. The fact that gambling winnings are not taxable could make somebody on means-tested benefits think they are exempt as well. That's particularly true if you're the sort of gambler who might be £20k up one day but know you could be down to zilch in a day or two.
The thing that does seem a bit odd is that he has apparently been able to claim JSA continuously for 4 years without being plonked on one of those meaningless training schemes. But Cooperman may well,wisely,have not gone into details about his employment history.

You should never have anything over 6k in by the looks of it as take as savings no matter what, so daily withdrawals from Betfair to bank and take cash out.  Far more easier I reckon to set Betfair up in family or friend account, Takes all this potential hassle away as would only have jobseekers payment showing as money in.  My mate works in JSA and hear some shocking stuff from him, interesting people attacking you on here but the majority of folk on long term JSA are massive tramp alkis or heroin addicts and the likes that get free rides in everything, housing etc, then they find a loser **** bucket woman that spit kids out for more free money.  If anyone wants one of these women to keep them so you can have her money then go on Facebook selling groups and just message any woman that has a job status set as a yummy mummy.

A tip, Mandatory work activity seems the norm now so go on ESA.  Far easier to pretend severe anxiety/depression so I'm told.

All the best, but you're getting attacked by cowards of the internet that certainly would never say a word in person to you let alone these outrageous life of benefits never worked sorts

Trollolol

ESA is NOT easy take it from me     
Incapacity Benefit was much easier but that has more or less been phased out.

This is no fishing thread.

I'm guessing you've managed much longer than 4 years signing on Venn?

Unitedbiscuits/Sean rua As regards "arbing", surely you should know that game is finished long ago, walk into Ladbrokes now looking to back one which is shorter on here and they're more likely to phone the police on you.

Its Personal Independence Payment (PIP) Now Salmon

No that replaced Disability Living Allowance greg.

Oh

Don't worry nobody really understands it all. Certainly not IDS or that scouse bird who they usually put up on TV these days to try and spare his blushes.

Same as many people have to sign on just to have there Nat Ins Stamp paid if their partner is working.(so sign for nothing else)

But if they have have a child under 12 and the child benefit is in their name they get Nat Ins Stamp paid until the child is 12 year old.


Just thought i'd mention it.

So no need to sign.

Did you not get ur Council Tax Paid Cooper U appear to have forgot about the CT ?

If he lives in a bedsit ( which I thought we all did on here ) then CT is probably paid by the landlord.

With only £4k claimed in housing benefit, as opposed to £12k in JSA, I'd guess he lives at his parents.

If this is true he has not got a leg to stand on, at any time his bank was above the threshold he should not have been claiming , when he states the times it was below the threshold the Judge will think he was just using benefits for gambling
if he lived with his Parents SK he would not get housing benefit ,if they are not working they would make the claim if they
are working he would not get it full stop ,I was made redundant 2 years back Got JSA for 6 months after that Nothing ,we were
meant to survive on My Mrs wages she was working part time ,apparently a couple are supposed to live on 440 a month
as we own our house there was no HB but we would have got help to wards CT  ,in the end I couldn't be bothered to sign on
to get my NI contributions paid ,I hated the fxcking place and the chance of the cxxts getting u a job are a million..

Fair play to you, cooperman, but I thought you said that the money that was "lost or not lost" was to do with the betting-shop side of the arb.

Probably, like those cnts in the dole office, I don't properly understand how this arbing works ( or worked, when it was possible).

What I do understand is turnover and profit. I know the huge difference between these, especially for "churners".

What I don't understand is why  one clever enough to play with fairly substantial stakes and arb successfully would bother his ars e about getting the tenner a day benefit ( plus the bit of housing benefit). It seems to have landed you in a spot of aggravation, but 'tis your private business and I hope ye get it sorted.

Because he is a greedy unprincipled ponce,Sean.
Not too difficult to understand,is it.

'could 'o been like that, but it was like this!'   

Cheers Sean, but methinks you're a bit more clever then you let on.lol.

Coops, cough... fishin' yeah ?.......

Well, I'm not entirely convinced the whole thing is not just a wind -up, but, when it comes to ethics surely this craic of laying known non-triers on here, and then scooting down the bookies to back them with cash in case they win at B.o.G.
cannot be totally squeeky-clean, can it?

It looks like I have an awful lot to learn about this carry on.

Personally, if I had a huge slush fund like that, 'twould never see any bank while 'twas in my hands. I'd be out on the courses or in the casino.
Only joking about the casino. I can't get past the cameras, and hate those games, anyway.

What I see on the tracks is guys ringing up mates to put on, or, press buttons someplace. I suppose behind all this there must be a bank account somewhere, unless 'tis the old credit betting carry on they're at.

All too difficult for me, I regret to say.

As White Dee said "No Claim no Fame!"

As I understand it, you can't have more than 16k savings in your bank if you are claiming.


How did you come to be investigated ?

Yes we know all this just  make sure you don't win too much

One of the more interesting/worrying aspects of Cooperman's experience is the problem arose from his bank's actions

Cooperman
My bank closed my a/c with no right of appeal having asked me to provide an explanation twice as to where these monies were coming from, they didn't understand it the first time. I have a mate who's bank has done exactly the same thing as his a/c involved betfair transactions albeit not on the same scale. Onlooker is 100% correct about the Inland Revenue being the starting point, the interest on my bank a/c flagged up on their side, which is cross referenced by the DWP.


I started a bank account about 15 years ago purely for my betting (though I pay our credit cards through it) and even for a relatively small punter like me, the amounts going in and out must be very significant. Fortunately I've never had any issue so I guess there are other account characteristics that they take into account when flagging up issues.

The bank will be worried about money laundering I imagine. They will have told either HMRC or DWP that £600k has gone into his account which they will have taken to mean profit. At a guess.

^ makes sense

The OP made net profit last year of £40k he stated. Yet this scrounging bellend is thieving money off those who genuinely need it. Fraudulent claims reduce the pool for those IN GENUINE NEED, not a mummys boy filthy arber!

Now, despite knowing full well he shouldn't have been claiming, he is trying to wriggle out of the repercussions. I really hope they throw the book at you for stealing benefits you could not genuinely claim to need. No doubt you have been enjoying the nice trappings of life; holidays, cars, nights out etc. Yet you are just too greedy.

Love to know how £600k in gambling is looking for work. You obviously are pretty good with numbers. Have you applied for work in a betting shop or as a bingo caller?! Please do keep us informed as to the progress of your trial. Worryingly you have a very real chance of being sent to jail.

P.S I think you got rumbled when you tried to claim benefits to pay for the delivery of your Racing Post.

yes SS I suppose when there's about the same money going in and out it looks like you are trying to clean it. If someone just has 600k going in and leaves plenty there maybe it doesn't cause any alarm.

cooperman,
Try get legal aid because you are on a low income
https://www.gov.uk/check-legal-aid

get a print out of the p&l of your account from the day you started to claim jsa if you have made any profit it should of been declared (any and all incomes) if its 3,4k or even up to 8k they can class it as an over payment and take it back over time but more then that you looking at 2years jail. and i want to this even if you only made 5% profit from your 600k turn over your a fool to of been claiming.

Ok let's get a few points across here, firstly the figures mentioned, eg 600k, have occurred as a result of "recycled monies" over a four year period. Switching the same 4k-5k back and forward can easily reach these figures over this period of time. On occasions my bank a/c has exceeded the allowance when i've had a good run, and had to transfer money out of here to my bank. This is the point where CHARWELL phones DWP to inform them he's won a few pound and to please stop his benefits. The point i'm making is I've never been in possession of large sums of money, and whilst I may be showing a net profit on here, at what point do u think well I should inform the dwp, when you know a bad run for a few days could rip the arse out of your profit. I defy you to tell me anyone winning money on here on a regular basis (no fortunes, just a regular profit) who would inform dwp. Always remember tomorrow's a new day on here, where disaster is lurking behind every corner.

The point i'm making is I've never been in possession of large sums of money, and whilst I may be showing a net profit on here, at what point do u think well I should inform the dwp, when you know a bad run for a few days could rip the arse out of your profit

You inform the DWP when you have a change in circumstances and your capital has changed as per your agreement with the DWP. How hard is that to understand?

Basically you're justifying committing benefit fraud on the basis that although you had a change in circumstances regards the capital you had you didn't want to tell them because their was a possibility that you would be spending your capital soon.

I'll hold my hands up to being over the allowance on a few occasions, but these people are coming after me for income of almost 3k per week for almost 4 years, which is the point of the original thread, they've chosen to ignore the monies leaving my bank a/c to betfair.

If you are staking correctly within your bank and you do not chase,there is never a disaster day around the corner. HTH

Easier said than done TRD.

Not if you treat this as a job

You accept a losing bet as a losing bet,a losing day as a losing day,it is part of the game. It's a marathon not a sprint

I admire your discipline, not my strong suit.

The bank may well have told them you had £600k going into your account. They may even have told them large sums were going out regularly,but they may not have told them where to. The DWP may have thought it was to a Merc dealer or a Colombian crack dealer. You will probably be able to convince them it's not exactly income but you are stuck on exceeding the capital allowance and not telling them The DWP will tell you if you were fortunate enough to win a large amount you should have spent it on necessities not gambling.

What do you keep depositing and taking money out? You know this costs Betfair money and driving up charges on everyone.

Surely you are best leaving your money here rather than continuously moving it to and fro.

I'll hold my hands up to being over the allowance on a few occasions, but these people are coming after me for income of almost 3k per week for almost 4 years, which is the point of the original thread, they've chosen to ignore the monies leaving my bank a/c to betfair.

Probably because they have no clue what the money is from as you didn't declare it. They're hardly going to believe you now are they? "Oh, I didn't inform you of the money when I was supposed to and I committed benefit fraud but trust me this isn't income it's just capital, I wouldn't try to deceive you, honest".

They had four years statements from my bank in their possession when they hauled me in, how they chose to ignore the monies going the opposite direction is beyond me (and my rep). Frog2, got no choice mate, think about it.

so how big a fine you looking at?

Other than occasionally exceeding the allowance I've done nothing wrong, i'm not worried about their claim I earned 600k in four years as even Dick Emery defend you on that one, so we'll see how it goes.

What do you mean they have ignored this? Presumably you mean when they interviewed you under caution? They will just be DWP investigators and presumably if your position on income stands up then it will only be the capital that will be taken in to account when they calculate your overpayment.

god this got boring very quick

hopefully the fine covers all the money he took from us the tax payers

They've ignored monies going from my bank a/c to betfair, and looked solely at the monies coming into my bank a/c from betfair, and treated this as income. If you go into a betting shop with 2k, bet all day and come out at the end of the day with the same amount of money in your pocket, dwp are treating any winners you backed as income, and ignoring your losing bets, as they have done so in my case.

u shouldve used neteller or skrill and avoided using ur bank account

Oh so you're back again Bond, I presume you've smartened up your spelling since your last visit?

so how many times did you claim money when you werent allowed to, you just said occasionally

Couldn't put an accurate figure on it cos it's pro rata around 7k to 16k, meaning you can have a figure in between in your a/c and then you'd face a reduction pro rata,

They have ignored this when? What I'm trying to get at is the fact that they questioned you about it is irrelevant. You yourself are admitting to committing fraud based on not notifying them of your capital so if you can prove your point on income you will just be convicted for fraud on the money you received from the DWP which you weren't entitled to due to your capital. The amount you earned during these periods or capital you had is irrelevant if it was above the threshold for receiving the benefits. It will simply be a case of you weren't entitled to this money and the total amount will be the amount of the fraud you will be charged with.

just hope the daily mail doesnt catch wiff of this or you could be famous

I only had capital exceeding their limits for a brief period, every gambler in the country would be in the same position at some stage I presume. The point i'm making is they are after me SOLELY for an income of 600k over four years, which is made clear to my rep in black & white on the papers served to us. If they decide to come after me for excess capital they must make this clear before any proceedings take place exactly what they are prosecuting me for. I never had 600k, fact.

should've just opened a post office account for your benefits.

rather than have everything go into 1 for them to get hold of and see.

No they won't Cooperman. The charge will be that you failed to notify them of a change in circumstances that affected your entitlement to benefit. If they say it's income and you say well no it's capital it won't make a difference if you weren't entitled to the benefit and failed to notify them of the money.

The only question I want to know the answer to is "Why were you claiming any benefits when you were spending everyday on a betting exchange?"

Benefit fraud no question.

WHY DO YOU JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS? Who said I was spending every day on here?

why not use an e wallet? and just move money around that way instead of constant withdrawals and deposits to a bank account?

They can look at other bank accounts\credit cards if fraud is suspected.

Why put large amounts of money in and out of a bank account on a regular basis without making any profit ie arbing with cash on the side?
You can't explain that away, they assume you have other money somewhere.

I've not read the entire thread however it seems to me that if all your betting has been on betfair it should be relatively easy to cross reference all movements in and out of bank account with betfair statement and the balance left on the betfair statement should represent your 40k profit over 3 years or whatever.
Surely the only problem is claiming benefit when your weekly/monthly betting income exceeds the dwp limit.
Why not offer to settle on the basis of returning wrongly claimed benefit plus a goodwill 'fine' of a couple of thousand.

Why do I assume you've been on here all day? Well you've been looking for a job for 4 years apparently and have turnover on here of £600K, which suggest you can't have been looking for a job that hard...

Let me put a spanner in the works.

I was done by the taxman for using somebody elses money. i.e. I was sponsored.
By claiming benefits AND gambling, you are basically being sponsored by the
government to gamble. At which point gambling winnings will be treated as
COMMISSION and are taxable.

You will have to do a deal with the taxman as they just won't let go. Good luck!

Once the benefit is given to him it becomes his and is not taxable imo.
His problem is with DWP not HMRC. I am sure he has a problem with going over the capital allowance. Whether the DWP can treat his profit over the 4 years as income I honestly don't know.

Profits are winnings, winnings are non taxable

hth!

I haven't read over the whole thread so apologies if this has already been covered.

My understanding is that persons claiming DWS Jobseekers' Allowance not only need to demonstrate, but prove they are "actively seeking work".

If the OP has been signing on every fortnight he will surely have been required to demonstrate this before now.

I'm of the view, and make no comment regarding the politics of the situation, that if the OP is on here trading all day it would be difficult to convince DWP staff he is "actively seeking work" in order to allow continued payment of JSA.

He might only be playing in the evenings and at weekends. Given we are awake about 100hrs a week you are probably OK if you were spending a third of that looking for work.

There is more chance of the next Pope being an Israeli than the OP being anything other than a Benefits Bandit.

I would love to know how he has been getting JSA for 4 years without been bunged on one of those hopeless training schemes.

Salmon - Everyone gets farmed off to one of them at some point, then when Ingeus or A4E are done bullying you they send you back to the JC to be verbally insulted by that lot instead. one adviser told my cousin he needed to have a shave as he was not doing his chances of finding employment much good with a beard..... proceeded to raise a doubt for not actively seeking work??!?!?!?!, basically called him a scruffy bastard and then took his money of him, you couldn't make this sh it up .

and now you 3 options after the work programme, you can either look after old people (don't we have people on a wage packet doing that?, but they have to do it for the JSA, which is a reduced JSA at that, = about 50 quid a week), which I would gladly tell the adviser she can shove it up her dry minge. the other two are either sign on daily or do other training, to which they would be told where they can shove that as well.

It is hardly a surprise that Horsebreath is an "expert" on JSA

' It is hardly a surprise that Horsebreath is an "expert" on JSA '


L L

I claimed contribution based JSA at the start of the year - I had to sign off after about 4 months as it was doing my head in having to try and prove that I was genuinely looking for a job (which I wasn't)
I don't think it would be possible to claim for 4 years especially as someone who must have half a brain to be able to make betting pay.
I went in one time and said i'd not been looking for work as i'd been looking after my children during school holidays - they said I was not allowed to do that. I said that's fine if you want to pay me another £600/week to pay a child minder, "sign here and we will see you in 2 weeks, sir" !

I now have the family allowance in my name for my NI contribution and claim family tax credit which isn't taxable but JSA is so it was a waste of time signing on anyway