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Anyone have problems in this area? Basically I'm facing prosecution for having large amounts of monies going from my betfair a/c into my bank, and vice versa, whilst claiming jobseekers. They have chosen to look solely at the money coming into my bank a/c from betfair and ignored the money going the opposite direction, this amounts to over 600k alleged income over a four year period, with a similar amount going the other way, but they have used this figure to claim I've had an income of almost 3k p/w for the last four years. I've explained to them this is recycled money, and these figures could be achieved with a couple of grand constantly recycling the same money, eg walk into a betting shop with 2k, bet all day in large bets, and emerge at the end of the day with your original 2k intact having backed a few winners and numerous losers. In this scenario they would treat all your winners as income, and ignore your losing bets. I feel they are confusing income with turnover. The trouble is they don't understand betfair, so how is a judge going to?
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My advice is don't claim JSA and bet, if they find out your betting and making profit they will be onto you like a flash. and they can take your winnings of you if its been made via JSA payments, all of it.
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horseburger your reply is nonsense.cooperman if this ever goes to court im sure any solicitor would have no problem whatsoever articulating your circumstances to a judge.
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Don't forget you're entitled to have upwards of 7k before any restrictions sre imposed on your jobseekers, and then it's pro rata up to 18kish.
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Contrary to popular opinion, judges are not that stupid. If you've not made a profit of any size then there shouldn't be a problem. If you have an income of JSA proportions or more from betting then I expect sympathy will be in short supply.
Sort of reminds me of the Robbie Box storyline in Big Deal (for oldies). |
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exactly,what you need to ascertain is how much actual cash you had at your disposal whilst claiming any benefits.
put it this way,imagine you had 2 bank accounts,one had 100 quid in it and you sent that 1000 back and forward between accounts 1000 times,would you have "earned" a million quid in this period??? i think not!! |
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When signing on next time tell your adviser you like a flutter, they'll raise a doubt quicker than you can say it, my cousin was asked about some gardening he'd done for our grandad, he told them he had done it and got paid a tenner, they stopped his claim there and then. don't ever let them cotton on otherwise they'll be onto you.
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People are being sanctioned for things like "applying for a vacancy too far away"... you really think they wont target someone who is making money on betfair, they'll term it as making a living and there for they wont pay JSA.
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Your problem might be if a Betfair statement shows a regular profit, albeit of less than £300k. You almost certainly need a solicitor and I'm wondering if you need an accountant. Ideally you should head this off before it gets to court.
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if u have 18k in any savings total u cant claim jsa.
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It's too late, the DWP have sent their file to the CPS and they will decide whether a prosecution will happen. Jesus Dick Emery could see from my bank statements the money I've lost over this period.
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To go back to the opening paragraph....
".....I'm facing prosecution for having large amounts of monies going from my betfair a/c into my bank, and vice versa," ------------------------ Has, or rather presumably, the subsequent situation arisen because the BANK FIRST notified the, or one of, the 'Authorities' Therefore - Does this subsequent investigation of assets not equally apply to ANYBODY - whatever their current employment, or otherwise, status... as the BANK are/will be notifying 'Authorities' of ALL deposits from Betfair. The starting point being the Inland Revenue - across the board. |
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LOL, Cooperman...Quality!
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Missed the ? Question Mark - off...
- as the BANK are/will be notifying 'Authorities' of ALL deposits from Betfair.? |
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My bank closed my a/c with no right of appeal having asked me to provide an explanation twice as to where these monies were coming from, they didn't understand it the first time. I have a mate who's bank has done exactly the same thing as his a/c involved betfair transactions albeit not on the same scale. Onlooker is 100% correct about the Inland Revenue being the starting point, the interest on my bank a/c flagged up on their side, which is cross referenced by the DWP.
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Blimey - at what LOW level of Interest Payments (on Accounts) does the Inland Revenue Notifiication/Alert 'kick-in'?
- Given that current interest rates are almost infinitesimal. |
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As far as I know gambling isn't taxable (yet). But, as someone mentioned earlier if you have over £16/18k in savings (or I'd guess Betfair accs) then you're not entitled to claim benefits. If you had that kind of money then I'd say they would go after you for benefit fraud.
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You can give your wife a one time gift of 35k (dollars), TAX FREE!
© Andy Dufresne |
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Surprised nobody has asked for a screen shot up to this point
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If it was the stock market you would be ok no doubt you could write the money off if you lost
and the government would bail you out unfortunately it's two rules.......... |
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Are you actively seeking a job?, if so why are you are on here all day? Should you not be doing all you can to get a job?
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Gambling has nothing to do with income tax or benefit claims FACT. Where you obtained money from in first place to gamble with as we all understand is recycled , authorities have to prove otherwise but if you have any form of income on your bank statements they will push and ask lots of questions.
Remember most gambling stories cannot be proven , your case will show far more than average uk gambler @ £480 annual gambled. Sit tight and don't panic have no dealings with them ,give them as little info as you can - its there job to build a case against you. Banks are ar..oles to us all!!! |
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out of interest how much savings did you declare?
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Less than he actually had. NAP
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In my view the biggest problem you face is that you are designated a 'professional gambler' and risk being assessed for income tax on your net profits. Gambling profits are tax free for recreational gamblers but bookmakers are assessed on their profits and the amounts you are seemingly betting could well be considered too high to be hobby betting.Take professional advice asap.
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Ask Betfair for your lifetime history with them. This will prove how much money you actually have which has not been acquired from gambling.
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posy 26 Sep 14 09:20
In my view the biggest problem you face is that you are designated a 'professional gambler' and risk being assessed for income tax on your net profits. Gambling profits are tax free for recreational gamblers but bookmakers are assessed on their profits and the amounts you are seemingly betting could well be considered too high to be hobby betting.Take professional advice asap. Gamblers, "professional" or otherwise are not subject to tax on winnings |
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As has been pointed out by a few I don't think the problem is " income ". However if the OP is claiming means-tested JSA he is in difficulties if he ever won enough to have the more than the minimum level to claim the full amount in his account at one time and didn't declare it.
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You haven't mentioned how much profit/loss you made. The profit should have been declared as income even if you lost it the next day.
There is also the question "were you activively seeking work while attempting to make money on Betfair" and if the amount of money in your account exceeded the minimum allowable. I could see this going to court as some sort of test case. |
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It won't be long before they are saying to Jobseekers have you tried making a living on Betfair?
then you will be quickly removed from the Jobless statistics and be broke in a month.. |
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I'm thinking about this having been on both sides of the counter at various times.
Firstly I don't think it is anything to do with tax. It's well-established you don't tax gambling winnings. That has been reinforced by the introduction of the National Lottery btw. I am more or less certain that if the OP is a big player he may well be in difficulties if he has at some point had say £10k in his account,which he didn't declare,even if he lost it the following day. A big gambling winner cannot legitimately claim means-tested benefits as they should have enough capital to live on. What the DWP just might be trying to argue is that,as has been hinted at,they may think that the OP is TRYING to put himself in that category. It could be seen as similar to someone who works voluntarily for nothing in a job that would normally pay a wage. There have been cases where say a son " helps out " in his father's shop for nothing whilst claiming benefits. Even if he is genuinely looking for another job that is not allowable as the taxpayer is effectively subsidising his father's business but also because he would be deemed not available for work. I can assure you it is terribly complex. When I worked on what was the old DHSS on Supplementary Benefits we were working to instructions contained in 12 thick volumes and even then in a lot of instances the instruction was to consult Head Office. |
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they have to PROVE you have had over the savings threshold at any one point in time, ie, your balance in betfair plus your bank account combined, if you haven't then you have nothing to worry about.
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So it's okay to work for Poundland for nothing but not your Father or a relative.
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HMRC and DWP are pretty much clueless, in this instance you probably should have informed them prior to your betting habits that you are utilising an allowable pot of money for betting purposes whilst in tandem looking for a job.
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Actively seeking cash
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It's alright if you are on a government-sanctioned training scheme
 They could prove it rather easily if he had a big win and withdrew £10k say to his bank account. |
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not illegal though Breedingmad. Ethical ? That's another issue entirely.
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cooperman - you say you both deposited and withdrew £600k during this period. What profit/loss did you make on Betfair in the same period? You must know.
Tell us this figure and we should be able to advise you better. |
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winnings are not taxable, so this is irrelevant Bilbo, the focus here is if the OP had an amount of money in situ at any point in time during the four years that exceeded the allowable limit.
if I was on the dole and won 50k off a scratchcard, then I couldn't claim benefits until the 50k had diminished to a figure below the threshold. |