Tanya slates the Doncaster "Bookies"

OK  wasnot you paid your arbing fee to get in, impossible to lose for the arbers/traders/ bookies to lose today , despite the results today

How would you know that mmm?  Have you ever tried on course bookmaking?  More bookie bashing tripe.

There wass a few but its not my place to name names.....we've been here before with this sort of argument....think I'll leave you bleating on about it between yourselves...much better things to do.

wasnot, how many arbers /traders /bookies lost today despite the results?

I have no idea mmm.  Unlike you I mind my own business.

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1/5 the odds a place the portland.defend that wasnot

Tanya appears to struggle to read more than one sentence from the Autocue without stammering, she is completely inappropriate for tv.

Her arguments about ew terms are completely out of context - many oncourse bookmakers will be betting to 110% when 1/5th odds whilst the off course will have 130% showing in the betting shops at 1/4 odds. She knows this and knows that if you strike more than 2 winning bets online you are likely to get your account closed.

like many others , I didn't have ANY back bets on an exchange today which means I lost .always amuses me when I read that we all have it all back on here ' yes , some fiddlers on the back line do and win £50 or so each race but most take on the public. today just wasn't the day

adge was off ill the day bookie college told them to lay at 5/1 and immediately back on here at 8.4

bless ....

My take.

Simple the magic has gone out of the ring . . .Souless betfair followers.

Used to love the rush to get on when one book stuck out and had an opinion.

Was going to go to Yarmouth for a couple of days , But really cant be asred.

Petrol, rip off food and drink, entrance fee, worse prices than here why would i bother why would anyone??

When someone who loves the game like i do starts thinking like this, then boy is this game in trouble

I would have to agree with Mr Bird on this. When I go racing now it's just a fun day out that I can't treat seriously. I expect many of the arbers on here would sympathise with those bookmakers who immediately lay back on here but unfortunately that's the way it is nowadays.

pity that was not a python around DT's neck in that picture

yep,have to agree with last two posters.I go to york dante meeting for three days every may,but just as a fun holiday.

Must say off course are just as bad.My son  tried to get £1000 on leo santa cruz to win inside 7 rounds last night 5/6(in PP shop in cheshunt) but they wouldn't lay it,by the time he got to the shop door to go out,all their prices for the fight were taken down(oddschecker etc)

The business is making it harder getting  on(dont they trust their odds compliers?)my beef is they complain about falling profits but then wont lay a bet.

no one tells me to back anything back , hulk . when I laid the 1100 to 200 you refer to it was actually 7.2 on here ' it drifted late[ no one took 5/1 that's just the sp after all bets ].
very easy to say that I should have backed it back but that's just one bet on one race
I lost £1465 on championship yesterday laying all comers at 16/1 [ was 20 on here , nothing back ] .you win some , you lose some

Adge if you lost on the last race with a juicy short one in it you are not playing the game.

To most punters betting percentages are irrelevant but they all know the each way terms,lower each way terms on track will only drive the punters into the betting shops.

Its madness to offer worse terms to racecourse punters,how its allowed I don't know.

That's the way adge plays and it certainly works for him!

Adge,whats happening this afternoon,i heard you mention something about the GC being in attendance?
No offence but if its anything like last time they were there I fell asleep.

it certainly didn't yesterday , mafia . my only other loser in the last was the fav. wildman

they are invited guests , ribero1 . probably will be sleepy again as they didn't have much of a clue last time and I don't expect the know much more now

1st race Thursday I bet a horse each way in tatts 1234 1/4 with 3 different independent bookmakers hope this helps.

Thanks Adge,wont be hanging about too long then.

I expect they are paying for their own lunch Adge.Those parasites are taking enough out of the game without them getting freebies.

People who live in glass houses

Sparrow and sj . . .Town meets country

Had a day out at Donny yesterday backed last winner 18/1 sp 14/1 glad I wasn't in my local ladsbrakes.

do any of these clowns on here think other people should go to work for nothing or just racecourse bookmakers ?

Trust me you will never get better value on course than you are at the moment I've only been in the on course game for 3 years, and it's dying on its feet, it's the only business I know when costs go up margins go down. If truth be told we are betting to almost no margin by the time you take out the rags that can't win couple that with holding practically no field money and basically we are punting.
The last 3 times I've been out iveheld less than  £2000 in 7 races and with expenses topping £300 inc staff excluding marketing fees  I'm odds against to break even let alone win.
Couple that with fields of 5 or6 runners in a race and betting to 105/106% you don't have to be a mathmetician to see there is no future in it
Until the racecourses get their heads out of their arses and realise that music nights ladies day etc ect may increase the attendance but people and coming to watch or bet on the racing
It says something when the headquarters of racing had its best attended day on pepper pig Saturday what a joke!
Sad to say but the sport I love as we all know it is in terminal decline
The racecourses have no interest whatsoever in the bookmakers and when I was growing up it was the fun part of the day, the people who have never stood there with their own money haven't got a clue  and  I wonder if they would consider doing a 12 hr day with the distinct possibility of going home with less than you came with

Rant over!

just answering the "no bookie bets without the fav cos they have to make their own prices" booooooooooooooooooolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllox, its actually cos the lions share of the punters nowadays don't understand it and you cant take a bet. but of course its easier for you to talk uinformed shyte!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

correct Houdini the games totally fkkd, I be out of it  by the time the gc ask me for more money.better value punting.

houdini,I feel for you,I used to travel to all the meetings as a punter,now it is a different game,not so much fun,the expenses are less sitting at home.I only go racing a couple of times a year now to meet old friends.I do not see the good days returning.

if/ when the oncourse bookies are totally forced out of the game by exes and no margins and the punter is forced  to play tote or exchange they will be ruing the day theoncourse bookies became extinct.they all think its a doddle getti9ng a living on course let them buy pitches and have  go , in fact any of then want to buy my pitches for half what I paid for them please contact me.!!!!

I know somebody who bought a pitch in the july silver because of pepper pig day not knocking him for one minute but what a situation we are in when the fixture list comes out one of the first things you do is look for what day pepper pig is on.

£2175 I paid on marketing fees sept 13 till sept 14 what did I get for it sweet fa

£1500 plus to the gambling commission what did I get for it the same as above.

the gam com , ring up wanting to know this and that, they should be paying us for our input not ripping us off.pay m fees ad al you hear at the races is d thompsomn telling the punrers a the av placepot pays  a grand!!!!he oddly enuff doesn't mention n a 4 runner race they take 27p and we take 4p.i don't mind giving my money as spin with any semblance of value but like most im getting out as I can get more punting with no lugging gear about and not filing th gc agt levy.

chester yesterday was all about the value you can have with betfair and how to get free wi fi to get a bet,no mention of all those who never got paid after that irish race a couple of years ago,or no mention of the commission you pay or no mention if you wont more than a fiver on you might have to hang on for a while.

If they re-introduced the 10& Off Course Betting Tax that may have an effect as an incentive for folk to go on-course to bet

It's only radical change that will save the on course business and whilst we would all be much better off if bettair was to dissapear from the ring that ain't gonna happen I think the whole product needs rebranding, we can't go back much as we would all love to but what needs looking at I the 20 /35 age group who have been lured away to other cheaper hobbies/interests
It's only a matter of time before midweek racing completely implodes

I think it pretty much already has.

midweek away from the festivals should be £15 members £10 tatts £5 silver free is no good you just get a load of tight tw.ts turning up.

if we believe what you say houdini, you not only want punters instead of pepa pig fans but you need punters who are willing to back the rags that cant win,more punters backing the same horses already in your book will end up with the same results surely

it don't help, by going£1 min, walos!! its been £2 min on the tote for years, I know a bookie on the heath who takes 50p e.w. fkn begging!!!!!!!!!!!!.I took 2/1 (admittedly only for £50 probably would have got £100) on  a horse you could lay 2.8 about. and hes paid 30 quid to  do that each race

the games been fcked for years its just took some a long time to find out

i go fewer and fewer days, i still win at the game after exes just not enuff to be bothered with.hopefully ill be rid of most of my pitches before march.

1st time if you are making a book in the traditional manner you are hoping to lay all the horses and if you are betting 106% in a 5 or 6 horse race you better hope you do  and holding 300 quid   You are punting
!You can't beat the figures and on course boys ain't. If you owned a grocers and bought apples for 30pence each and sold them for 29pencehow long do you think you would last
I

ill keep my brief for he point bto point as  at least you can  get value about being with the front end of h market.

houdini so your advertising for new punters to come to the game to back the no hopers

if 30 years ago people were willing to back the rags bookie term [mug money ] you cant blame punters for been better informed,educated whatever,
what you want is the return of the mug money,the money the likes of nevo,freemantle,shifter etc used to trouser away

No escape !

No the point. I'm making is that betting to small margin you have to try to lay the no hopers 25 years ago betting to 130 or more per cent you didn't have to lay all the horses same as dogs the seldom bet under 130% but they are only betting around 4 dogs max we bet a 5 horse race around 3  horses max  and before the advent of the exchanges you would seldom get 50s or 100shots in 5 horse races  we are betting to strong to survive

I know of at least 5 so called on course books who bet over broke in small fields without even knowing johnny earl would go taken them to the cleaners if  he could of got on

heart is bleeding for the bookies that people aren't lining up to be robbed any more.

Bookmakers should not be allowed to use Betfair or any other exchange on course imo,then the bookmakers would need to hedge with each other,that was always the way it used to be when I was on course,and if you didnt fancy one you would have it sticking out in he book,very few proper bookmakers left,most of them saw what was coming and sold their pitches.

Most of those that call themselves bookmakers want to be up for nothing and there is just not enough money at the courses anymore to do that.

Hang on how could that be enforced - no betfair on course..

The ring inspector(!) would have to make sure that mobiles were banned..

The tic tac man would have to make a comeback and get the prices from the crowd.

Up the arm....

once Andrew Black et al came up with a product that allowed punters to bet horses in 100% markets, surely the life of bookmakers was terminal?

Amazed they've lasted this long, and they've only done so with special offers (BOG etc) and bonuses etc not by lowering their overrounds.

If the SP reporters did their jobs and passed back the actual prices apparently available in the ring to the shops, then maybe punters would be more likely to bet with the books than the exchanges.

Feel sympathy for the on-course books trying to make a living after incurring expenses, but the fact most presumably use the exchanges themselves, surely that tells its' own story? As others have pointed out, having so little business that they can no longer create a full book, surely means they are no longer bookmakers by definition. Merely traders or gamblers like the rest of us?

And the big 3s reps earning money off the bags bookmakers by telling them what price to go about dogs that they knew there was plenty of money for in the shops (go 6/4 the 3 and lay us  £400/£200 ,a dog that they would happily have laid at 3/1)drinks galore,every aspect of racing whether its dogs or horses rotten through and through.

Was once contacted by a kennelhand that wanted me to lay dogs for him,I said no.

most people have got it spot on on here, too many factors against on course books unfortunately coupled with the fact their lives were signed away for them when the deal was done on their behalf in terms of unsustainable fees, some identify this place as a competitor on the front end of the market and that can only be a good thing for those hoping to keep attracting punters to the ring... sadly it is mostly Day Trippers and people on a day out who provide the remaining custom and any business cannot survive long term on decreasing turnover and ever increasing expenses and tightening margin, its catch 22 as this place causes the competition although those at least alert to the fact and trying to compete is a positive

You can't compete with bettair and although some say they are biggEr than the machine long term it's unsustainable  in days gone bye you laid a 6/4 shot shortened it and laid something else to make your book. Nowadays u can lay 6/4  and as long as its 2.5 for a pound some nutter will go 6/4I've watched  bookie at Southwell all weather go 5/4 5/4 12/1  ( not at the same time though) in a 3 horse race

RR,UNFORTUNATELY I CAN CONFIRM THE WORST FEARS FOR ONCOURSE BOOKMAKERS,"WE TRULY ARE ALL DOOMED".UPON ARRIVAL AT THE ANNUAL NORTHERN BOOKMAKERS MEETING,ONE OF THE REASONS I ATTENDED WAS THAT A MEMBER OF GAMBLING COMMISSION WOULD BE IN ATTENDANCE AND I WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO EXPRESSING A FEW OF MINE AND MY COLLEAGUES OPINIONS TO THIS COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY USELESS ORGANISATION,I WAS TOLD THAT A MEMBER OF OUR OWN ORGANISATION"HAD ADVISED THE GAMBLING COMMISSION NOT TO ATTEND AS THEY WOULD BE IN FOR A TORRID TIME" YOU COULDNT WRITE IT IN A BOOK,IM AFRAID THERE IS NO HOPE,ALL IS LOST!

good grief factsmachine please tell me your kidding

So errr what do they get paid for then??

To walk in a Ladbrokes and have the wool pulled over there eyes??

Ladbrokes care about as much for responsable gambling as mac ds do for the "healthy option"

FOXY,IM AFRAID NOT,AS I HAVE STATED BEFORE THE ONCOURSE BOOKMAKERS HAVE NO REPRESENTATION ITS EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF!

anything at all interesting to report factsmachine or was it a complete waste of a sunday ?

COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME,I WILL ELABORATE WHEN I SEE YOU NEXT!

ok look forward to it,good luck this week where ever you go.

"Complete waste of time?"what exactly were you expecting Fact?
Yes it was a pretty quiet meeting with the usual suspect wasting 15 minutes of our time question where 2/6d had gone missing but these guys work very hard in our interests imo.
The really big news was that Chester have a new self appointed bookies rep foxy.

VERY TRUE RIB,THIS SELF APPOINTED REP HAS ACHIEVED MORE IN 48 HOURS THAN THE NBPA HAS IN 8 YEARS!

Well Done Fact..... Individual negotiations with the courses you bet at the way forward... you usually find the individuals commercially aware and receptive and it is the only way to make sure the general voice is being heard rather with modern day views that fit with the current tough environment within which all operate

and better news for those retiring next year the levy has almost been finalised with a modest £6 increase for next year.
retirement the year after may be on the cards , though , as a fight is expected to prevent it becoming a straight 10% of GROSS profit from then on.life gets no easier !!
I was sorry that the gambling commission withdrew at short notice and also that tim moore , unfortunately , was unavailable due to a prior engagement

Sounds as if all went to plan then adge ? No chance of the meeting being postponed I suppose until the aforesaid luminaries could attend ?

You can't compete with bettair and although some say they are biggEr than the machine long term it's unsustainable  in days gone bye you laid a 6/4 shot shortened it and laid something else to make your book. Nowadays u can lay 6/4  and as long as its 2.5 for a pound some nutter will go 6/4I've watched  bookie at Southwell all weather go 5/4 5/4 12/1  ( not at the same time though) in a 3 horse race

5/4 5/4 12/1 seems to be freely available on the front line in Scotland these days

INTHEKNOW,YOUR FIRM AT IT AGAIN TODAY AT WOLVS,PUNTER WANTED £300 E WAY AROUND 5/1 ISH THINK THEY LAID HIM HALF,ANOTHER PUNTER NEVER TO BE SEEN AGAIN,QUITE EMBARRASSING,COME RACING

you'll learn one day boyo

I LEARNED THAT YOUR FIRM WONT LAY A BET A LONG LONG TIME AGO!

WILLIAM HILL RULES,NO1=THOU SHALL NOT WIN!

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

wake me up when you're finished

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!

Actually I have recently noticed that many of the alleged "Bookmakers" are bigger than Betfair on the horses in the AM..

What is that all about as I have tired of opening new accounts...

^^^^^^^^^^^Bigger maybe,until you try to back one,that when the bigger means nothing,"if you cant lose you cant win",in other words you cant get a bet on so you cant lose, but you cant win either ,its all a total waste of time.

who is the self appointed rep ?

Morning foxy,having trouble with race passes this morning are they ok with you?

Looks as though its sorted now,in answer to your question Mr Fact himself!

FOXY,THE NEW REP IS CURRENTLY INVOLVED IN VERY AND I REPEAT VERY SENSITIVE NEGOTIATIONS WITH CHESTER RACECOURSE WHICH COULD HAVE A PROFOUND EFFECT ON THE RING THAT I BET IN,ITS FAR TO SENSITIVE TO DISCUSS ON HERE,GIVE ME A BELL OR I WILL SEE YOU ONCOURSE TO DISCUSS!

PS,THIS UNLIKE OUR PAST NEGOTIATORS WILL BE TO THE BENEFIT OF THE MAJORITY NOT THE MINORITY

Caps Lock seems to be permanently stuck.

Fact- Please make sure all discussions are documented and distributed to all pitch holders in due course

good morning ribero my race passes were fine

factsmachine I have rang you but you must be busy plotting.

racecourse regular

you seem quite excited about the prospects of what is going on at chester,did you not see the quote the ring I bet in ?

Foxy - Excited by the general fact that progress appears to being made in terms of a general view being heard and progress not the consensus of some in the main fiddling dinosaurs whom are waiting to become extinct and doing nothing about it

or cant see it

would you say any progress made should be fair to all ?

as fair as it can be,  all depends on the situation, some actions will only ever benefit a few it is all about taking decisions which don't unfairly seem to dis-advantage the majority of a ring for whatever reason and not giving anybody the chance to bring self-interest into play

indeed

SPOT ON RR,THERE IS A VACANCY ON THE NEW BOARD IF YOUR INTERESTED!

Ill Get Some Placards Made Up Fact so we can start recruiting a few members what should the slogan be....

BE PREPARED?????

I didn't think this was the scouts we were recruiting for

MAYBEE IN THE CURRENT CLIMATE OF COMMISSION AGENTS/FIDDLER DOMINATED BETTING RINGS"HE WHO DARES,LOSES"

Might have to cut the word lose out  would cause too many requiring medical attention at the thought

would bob a job week not suffice