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Impossible to play in a race in which he has a short priced runner - let alone two. Southwell 15 10.
On more serious note on what basis had the handicapper allocated a mark to these previously unsighted horses.?Ridiculous.
On more serious note on what basis had the handicapper allocated a mark to these previously unsighted horses.?Ridiculous.
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the 'ground' seems to be this mystical thing that can be put forward to explain away anything...utter horse$hit
parispike 03 Sep 14 10:06
Impossible to play in a race in which he has a short priced runner - let alone two. Southwell 15 10.
On more serious note on what basis had the handicapper allocated a mark to these previously unsighted horses.?Ridiculous.
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Should NOT be awarded a RATING - on the basis of SAINT HELENA being beaten a total of 310 lengths - and 3 times PULLED UP - on it's HURDLE runs.
However - Most unfortunately - The Handicapper will now be sat 'preening his feathers' - as it did not win 'hard held, head in chest'.
However - In such obviously 'NOT off' HURDLE races scenarios - then the horse should automatically be awarded a Rating 35 lbs Higher than it's FLAT Rating - as the horse already had Winning FLAT Form ..... 35 being the difference between the two codes Scales.
In this instance - SAINT HELENA would have been asked to run off 105 and NOT today's 82
Would they have 'lumped on', likewise - and messed about with dual-declarations, and then NON-Runners, today in such circumstances?
Of course they would NOT.
Impossible to play in a race in which he has a short priced runner - let alone two. Southwell 15 10.
On more serious note on what basis had the handicapper allocated a mark to these previously unsighted horses.?Ridiculous.
-----------------
Should NOT be awarded a RATING - on the basis of SAINT HELENA being beaten a total of 310 lengths - and 3 times PULLED UP - on it's HURDLE runs.
However - Most unfortunately - The Handicapper will now be sat 'preening his feathers' - as it did not win 'hard held, head in chest'.
However - In such obviously 'NOT off' HURDLE races scenarios - then the horse should automatically be awarded a Rating 35 lbs Higher than it's FLAT Rating - as the horse already had Winning FLAT Form ..... 35 being the difference between the two codes Scales.
In this instance - SAINT HELENA would have been asked to run off 105 and NOT today's 82
Would they have 'lumped on', likewise - and messed about with dual-declarations, and then NON-Runners, today in such circumstances?
Of course they would NOT.
i wasn't excusing it dunc
just saying it will obviously be swallowed when offered
the horse had no form on it on the flat
just saying it will obviously be swallowed when offered
the horse had no form on it on the flat
far too sensible onlooker, when did common sense ever prevail in this game.
whippin The form book says it hates soft ground,it was run several times on ground it would dislike,back on the quicker ground today you didn't need a crystal ball
those who study the form of trainers who employ McCoy occasionally would not find the result surprising at all. I didn't have a bet, but in low grade races, previous form is less important than trainer habits.
its purely a loop hole in the system that a trainer can exploit
unfortunately if they can get away with it, they will
NEVER GIVE A SUCKER AN EVEN BREAK
unfortunately if they can get away with it, they will
NEVER GIVE A SUCKER AN EVEN BREAK
Could Rhys Flint have ridden in the race at 10st 8lb? His own recent comments on twitter re 11st 'wishfulthinking' are very interesting.......
Dunc are you thick?
there was a jockey change you retard
ffs no wonder some can't make the game pay when they moan like hell at coups like this, which is like giving money away
there was a jockey change you retard
ffs no wonder some can't make the game pay when they moan like hell at coups like this, which is like giving money away
They should have just added 40 to the flat mark, then the little sht in the big shades would not be jumping up and down on his phone after the race. He must owe somebody a fortune!
bondy for the 3rd time
when did you get on this one please ??
when did you get on this one please ??
OK maybe you're right TRD, its still doesn't excuse connections continually running the horse on going it dislikes, then declaring 2 for a race and then switching Muckoy on to sad horse. Well done with your bet though. Did you get on early doors or jump on the bandwagon?
yes, wasnt refering to your comment or this particular horse, tbh, striding...it doesnt matter what the circs, some trainer says 'ground' and everyone goes 'well, we cant prove him wrong'...it's like a free pass
in this instance, you say 'the horse had no form on it on the flat'...i'd disagree- it ran only twice on soft and did manage to run to a RPR within 9lb of her best on Flat in 2013 when 6th of 14 at Epsom...that suggests she might not be at her best on soft but it doesnt suggest PU every time she leaves the box
in this instance, you say 'the horse had no form on it on the flat'...i'd disagree- it ran only twice on soft and did manage to run to a RPR within 9lb of her best on Flat in 2013 when 6th of 14 at Epsom...that suggests she might not be at her best on soft but it doesnt suggest PU every time she leaves the box
Says a lot that this doesn't go on far more often,lets face it the prize money in these races doesn't cover the collective fuel money for getting the horse's there.
sageform not one of us on here is 'surprised' at the result...that's exactly the point, it's so transparent..it is blatant...but should we not be bothered that they (and Curley et al) can get horses to run stones below their best until the day they're wanted and when that day arrives they will try to hoodwink the public as best they can with NRs/jockey changes etc?
I must admit i thought this Forum was dead on its ar5e but glad to see so many knowledgeable comments reg this
whippin I didn't play the race,I prefer to back horses that I have watched and think I know a bit about. On flat form it was thrown in,in the end it wasn't that impressive,but got the job done.
With regard to declaring two and pulling one out,I agree that is less than ideal. As for running horses on ground they dislike or over incorrect distances,there would be no trainers left if that practice stopped
With regard to declaring two and pulling one out,I agree that is less than ideal. As for running horses on ground they dislike or over incorrect distances,there would be no trainers left if that practice stopped
I don't know the trainer or i would of been on well before
i tell you all what to do put a horse with jim best he seems to know what hes doing, good luck to them hope they get the lot off theses so called accounts
does anyone know of one of these types that has won after drifting markedly 
Barton Bank, fully appreciate what you are saying and doubt anyone is surprised at the response you received, thing is, that is their way of ensuring that they do not have to act, only way to wake them from their slumber is for numerous complaints to be made and regularly followed up, until an appropriate response or change in the rules is forthcoming.
string Not one of these types,but the yard did have a winner,last week I think it was,that went in without any clear support.
When I used to live in Surrey was always getting told of a Best horse that they fancied. The yard are not good at keeping schtum
When I used to live in Surrey was always getting told of a Best horse that they fancied. The yard are not good at keeping schtum
Duncan, I agree that the rules should not have allowed the jockey change that was obviously planned. My point was that when punters say they have no chance when they study form, it depends what you mean by form. MR Best has plenty of form that pointed straight to the winner.
TRD, I don't play in such low grade races either, I was just an interested observer. I agree with you on there being no trainers left if they didn't fiddle a bit with regards to trip and going and its up to the punter to investigate this for themselves. I just think on this occasion its gone a bit beyond "fiddling a bit"
whippin Without doubt they are a gambling yard,but at the lower end of the racing scale many yards have to have a punt. Whether you agree with some of the tricks they pull,the Best yard very rarely get one wrong
Best is not the problem; he's merely a symptom of the problem which is the BHA.....
i've said similar before .we are at a crossroads with racing .if the authorities want it treating as a serious sport and betting medium instead of a roulette/ bingo pastime with beer thrown over it they need to wake up . or there will be few people interested in 10 years time . ..incidentally , if that race was in hong kong where they punt millions and pack racecourses the connections would have plenty of time on their hands for the next couple of years
ANALYSIS
SAINT HELENA, returning from a 125-day break, had shown little over hurdles in novice/maiden company but she was well supported here on her handicap debut.
Taking over approaching the last, she was always doing enough on the run-in under a strong ride from Tony McCoy, who was a late jockey switch as his intended mount Into The Wind, a stablemate of the winner, was withdrawn due to the quick ground. She will have to improve again to cope with a rise for this.
QUOTES: Jim Best, trainer of Saint Helena:
At the moment the yard is in great form and she has found her form at home recently.
SAINT HELENA, returning from a 125-day break, had shown little over hurdles in novice/maiden company but she was well supported here on her handicap debut.
Taking over approaching the last, she was always doing enough on the run-in under a strong ride from Tony McCoy, who was a late jockey switch as his intended mount Into The Wind, a stablemate of the winner, was withdrawn due to the quick ground. She will have to improve again to cope with a rise for this.
QUOTES: Jim Best, trainer of Saint Helena:
At the moment the yard is in great form and she has found her form at home recently.
The BHA deserves the state racing is in at the moment. They are at least as responsible for it as anyone else.
I'm prob being very thick but what was gained by the nr and musical saddles other than to highlight what was going on? If only SH declared from stable (with Mccoy) it prob wouldn't have opened much shorter last night and it wasn't laid to that much at biggish prices anyway? Then they could have gambled away with just the improvement in form to explain - this looks very messy and dodgy to even those with no interest in racing.
And please don't answer with the forum standard 'If you don't know you shouldn't be in this game' that always happens in this instance.
And please don't answer with the forum standard 'If you don't know you shouldn't be in this game' that always happens in this instance.
Pretty sure if McCoy had been declared on it as the only stable runner, it would have been put in favourite straight away given the horse had a decent Flat rating and taking into account the record of the stable with similar types.
Spyker , by declaring AP on Into the Wind the market made that one favourite on jockey bookings and allowed Saint Helena to be chalked up at 6-1. Then once those involved got on at 6s APs mount was pulled out and he was put on Saint Helena.
Had AP been on Saint Helena in the first place you probably would have seen that one at 5-2 and the other at 6-1 instead.
Had AP been on Saint Helena in the first place you probably would have seen that one at 5-2 and the other at 6-1 instead.
REASONS FOR REFUSING TO ALLOT A HANDICAP RATING
Rule (F) 42.9 states that the Handicapper may in any case decline to allot a handicap
rating if, in his opinion, he does not have sufficient information upon which to allot one.
When refusing to allot a rating, every case is considered on its own merits with the
overarching consideration being whether the Handicappers have sufficient evidence to
allocate an accurate handicap rating to a horse.
As a guide, the Handicappers might refuse to allocate a rating in the following
circumstances:
Both codes:
Horse not ridden to achieve best possible placing
Running and riding enquiry held at which connections explain why the horse
could not show what it was capable of (but not found in breach)
Insufficient evidence on which to base a rating such as a race for newcomers, or
most horses in the race had never run before, or the best run was affected by
something which means it would be guesswork to put a figure on it
Badly hampered on more than one occasion
Heavily eased
Report from jockey suggesting the horse is significantly better than it appears to
have shown in a way that cannot be quantified e.g. unsuitable going, choked
Incompetent performance by a jockey including complete misjudgement of pace
of race from front or back
Horse showed such signs of temperament as to make it impossible to gauge its
merit
When a horse has no rateable form after 3 runs
Horse stumbled or hung so badly that the horse could not be effectively ridden
Very slowly away more than once
Flat:
First time out winners where there is little evidence provided by beaten horses or
horse wins so easily it is impossible to quantify what they have achieved
Where the best run mathematically was affected by any of the above
When the distance over which a horse has run to qualify is blatantly inappropriate
Jump:
Where the horse has not completed the race after 3 runs
Where the horse has not been not competitive at any point in the race on 2
occasions
Exceptionally poor jumping
Lack of headgear (compared to good previous Flat or bumper form)
Every case is considered on its own merits with the Handicappers’ overarching
consideration being whether they have sufficient evidence to allocate an appropriate
handicap rating to a horse. Furthermore, in order to refuse to allocate a handicap rating, Handicappers are obliged
to secure the approval of the Head or Deputy Head of Handicapping, thereby ensuring
consistency in all such cases. If a trainer wants to dispute a case involving a horse not
being allocated a rating, the trainer can revert to the BHA if they wish to instigate the
handicap rating appeals procedure that is available.
Rule (F) 42.9 states that the Handicapper may in any case decline to allot a handicap
rating if, in his opinion, he does not have sufficient information upon which to allot one.
When refusing to allot a rating, every case is considered on its own merits with the
overarching consideration being whether the Handicappers have sufficient evidence to
allocate an accurate handicap rating to a horse.
As a guide, the Handicappers might refuse to allocate a rating in the following
circumstances:
Both codes:
Horse not ridden to achieve best possible placing
Running and riding enquiry held at which connections explain why the horse
could not show what it was capable of (but not found in breach)
Insufficient evidence on which to base a rating such as a race for newcomers, or
most horses in the race had never run before, or the best run was affected by
something which means it would be guesswork to put a figure on it
Badly hampered on more than one occasion
Heavily eased
Report from jockey suggesting the horse is significantly better than it appears to
have shown in a way that cannot be quantified e.g. unsuitable going, choked
Incompetent performance by a jockey including complete misjudgement of pace
of race from front or back
Horse showed such signs of temperament as to make it impossible to gauge its
merit
When a horse has no rateable form after 3 runs
Horse stumbled or hung so badly that the horse could not be effectively ridden
Very slowly away more than once
Flat:
First time out winners where there is little evidence provided by beaten horses or
horse wins so easily it is impossible to quantify what they have achieved
Where the best run mathematically was affected by any of the above
When the distance over which a horse has run to qualify is blatantly inappropriate
Jump:
Where the horse has not completed the race after 3 runs
Where the horse has not been not competitive at any point in the race on 2
occasions
Exceptionally poor jumping
Lack of headgear (compared to good previous Flat or bumper form)
Every case is considered on its own merits with the Handicappers’ overarching
consideration being whether they have sufficient evidence to allocate an appropriate
handicap rating to a horse. Furthermore, in order to refuse to allocate a handicap rating, Handicappers are obliged
to secure the approval of the Head or Deputy Head of Handicapping, thereby ensuring
consistency in all such cases. If a trainer wants to dispute a case involving a horse not
being allocated a rating, the trainer can revert to the BHA if they wish to instigate the
handicap rating appeals procedure that is available.
Race 3 - 3:10pm THE 32Red CASINO HANDICAP HURDLE RACE (CLASS 5)
The Stewards held an enquiry to consider the apparent improvement in form of the winner, SAINT HELENA (IRE), ridden by A P McCoy and trained by Jim Best, which had never previously been placed. They interviewed the trainer who stated that the mare, who had been a very buzzy type in the past, settled better today and had benefited from a break of one hundred and twenty-five days since her last run. He added that the mare was suited by the firmer ground on this occasion. Having heard his evidence they forwarded his explanation to the British Horseracing Authority so that the previous performances of SAINT HELENA (IRE) could be reviewed. The Stewards ordered the mare to be routine tested.
The Stewards held an enquiry to consider the apparent improvement in form of the winner, SAINT HELENA (IRE), ridden by A P McCoy and trained by Jim Best, which had never previously been placed. They interviewed the trainer who stated that the mare, who had been a very buzzy type in the past, settled better today and had benefited from a break of one hundred and twenty-five days since her last run. He added that the mare was suited by the firmer ground on this occasion. Having heard his evidence they forwarded his explanation to the British Horseracing Authority so that the previous performances of SAINT HELENA (IRE) could be reviewed. The Stewards ordered the mare to be routine tested.
Surely the reasons for why In The Wind was declared a non runner should be looked at? I'd be amazed if the ground had changed in the one day since she'd been declared on plus she regularly ran on quick ground for the Millmans, usually running to the same mark.
I don't see the evidence for why it should have been withdrawn today.
I don't see the evidence for why it should have been withdrawn today.
Thanks for the explanations but it doesn't add up! I haven't got the figs but as of about 1ish last night when I went to bed there really wasn't that much bet on the race - SH had come in from about 12's to 9ish but to pennies. ITW drifts and withdrawn 1130ish, by which time SH has been backed all morning and is already 7/4ish. All they got by withdrawing the other 1 is a rule 4 from what i can see!
This is quite amazing. Having watched her last two races under two minutes ago, there is no evidence whatsoever to the naked eye that she takes a strong hold or buzzy in the least.
r 03 Sep 14 16:04
Barton Bank, fully appreciate what you are saying and doubt anyone is surprised at the response you received, thing is, that is their way of ensuring that they do not have to act, only way to wake them from their slumber is for numerous complaints to be made and regularly followed up, until an appropriate response or change in the rules is forthcoming.
Good luck with that project. They could receive 1000 complaints and still would do nothing and you would be lucky to even get a response. The BHA are not fit for purpose and that is a 1.00001 shot.
Barton Bank, fully appreciate what you are saying and doubt anyone is surprised at the response you received, thing is, that is their way of ensuring that they do not have to act, only way to wake them from their slumber is for numerous complaints to be made and regularly followed up, until an appropriate response or change in the rules is forthcoming.
Good luck with that project. They could receive 1000 complaints and still would do nothing and you would be lucky to even get a response. The BHA are not fit for purpose and that is a 1.00001 shot.
i wonder what he was doing on his phone all through the race , surley not betting in running ?
i can't imagine he was relaying the race back to someone as anyone that backed it could surely have watched it on atr, or paid to listen to commentary over the phone .
maybe he is good at commentating
who knows
i can't imagine he was relaying the race back to someone as anyone that backed it could surely have watched it on atr, or paid to listen to commentary over the phone .
maybe he is good at commentating
who knows
celtic son
it's obviously a case of internal buzziness, very hard to see on the outside
it's obviously a case of internal buzziness, very hard to see on the outside
i was at sandown racecourse and 2 men went up to barney and asked him if he fancied hes horse in the 3.05 to which barney said if you pay the bills you would know and walked off so the simple answer to all the people on this forum is go and get shares or buy a horse and you will get to know instead of coming on here moaning because you were not in on it.
barney curley is a twisted individual ,, almost psychopathic .
spyker, you didnt want the bog standard reply 'If you don't know you shouldn't be in this game'....well, you've done a first-rate job of illustrating why it's used 
barney does a lot of good work for a lot of people and anyone who takes money off bookmakers is a good egg
Curley is a piece of **** that cares only about himself. No folk hero, no legend, just a tawt.
spyker, you didnt want the bog standard reply 'If you don't know you shouldn't be in this game'....well, you've done a first-rate job of illustrating why it's used Cry
How so, by not following the crowd? I obv knew what answer would be forthcoming and i knew that from memory the prices didn't seem to bear out that theory - SH price at time of wd roughly 2's (with rule 4) and others on here have said it may have opened at 5/2 if it was the only Old runner (i'd dispute this but obv it would be shorter with AP up - I'd say around 5's) so 2's with a rule 4 or 5/2 without?
They could have easily pulled this off without the nr/musical saddles and would just look a bit iffy, as opposed to the fix it looks like. It was backed with the bookies before here from the looks of it but from this stable if it had been backed heavily overnight it would have been 2's from early doors but was only properly backed from 9ish.
Sorry if the facts (prices) seem to get in the way of the theory. but i just don't see much worthwhile gain (according to the theory on this thread) from the nr/jockey switch.
How so, by not following the crowd? I obv knew what answer would be forthcoming and i knew that from memory the prices didn't seem to bear out that theory - SH price at time of wd roughly 2's (with rule 4) and others on here have said it may have opened at 5/2 if it was the only Old runner (i'd dispute this but obv it would be shorter with AP up - I'd say around 5's) so 2's with a rule 4 or 5/2 without?
They could have easily pulled this off without the nr/musical saddles and would just look a bit iffy, as opposed to the fix it looks like. It was backed with the bookies before here from the looks of it but from this stable if it had been backed heavily overnight it would have been 2's from early doors but was only properly backed from 9ish.
Sorry if the facts (prices) seem to get in the way of the theory. but i just don't see much worthwhile gain (according to the theory on this thread) from the nr/jockey switch.
Not even the equivalent of a modern day barney rubble.
So Barney is evil eh? How many of you smug self-satisfied, hate-filled individuals have genuinely done anything for anyone else, especially in a third-world country?
Proper evil the man is.....
Proper evil the man is.....
It's all a waste of time. Horse racing is finished.
Move on.
Move on.
So its a lost cause, sounds like a job for ima mazed...! Someone put a call out to him, he'll keep up the crusade forever if you mention something like it is to aid KF's pension plan...!
Things were a LOT worse before mandatory overnight declarations of jockeys came in.
Many a time 7lb claimer was jocked up in the night papers and forecast at 20/1.
Only for it to bolt in as favourite with Lester riding it !!!
Many a time 7lb claimer was jocked up in the night papers and forecast at 20/1.
Only for it to bolt in as favourite with Lester riding it !!!
DUNERUNNER is correct.
Sandown Result
06 Nov 1993
« 4:05 EBF NATIONAL HUNT FLAT
(4-6yo) (2m110y) 2m½f Good To Firm
£2,092.00, £587.00, £286.00
HORSE/SP AGE WGT TRAINER/JOCKEY OR TS RPR
1 Sprintfayre 14/1 5 11-0 R Simpson — * * »
Mr M Armytage
Made virtually all, clear 2f out, driven out
Sprintfayre shortened from 25s in places and gave a thoroughly professional performance in making every yard, showing not a hint of greenness despite being a horse who had never raced before.
Under the jockey's name for this racecourse debutant in the Racing Post that morning was the word DOUBTFUL. The runners and riders board at Sandown Park simply had a blank next to the horse's number.
Sprintfayre was a 5yo gelding by Magnolia Lad owned by Peter J Colman, who at the time also owned a successful hurdler called Billy Boru, who, quite coincidentally, also happened to be a 5yo gelding by Magnolia Lad.
Billy Boru was also listed as trained by Rod Simpson, but until earlier in the year had been trained by none other than the late Albert Davison, who claimed to be retired from training at the time. A few months later both of these horses, along with several others previously trained by Davison, were running with the name of Monica Long as their trainer.
If you think the Best firm are iffy, they're as clear as daylight compared to what used to go on in the Davison yard.
Sandown Result
06 Nov 1993
« 4:05 EBF NATIONAL HUNT FLAT
(4-6yo) (2m110y) 2m½f Good To Firm
£2,092.00, £587.00, £286.00
HORSE/SP AGE WGT TRAINER/JOCKEY OR TS RPR
1 Sprintfayre 14/1 5 11-0 R Simpson — * * »
Mr M Armytage
Made virtually all, clear 2f out, driven out
Sprintfayre shortened from 25s in places and gave a thoroughly professional performance in making every yard, showing not a hint of greenness despite being a horse who had never raced before.
Under the jockey's name for this racecourse debutant in the Racing Post that morning was the word DOUBTFUL. The runners and riders board at Sandown Park simply had a blank next to the horse's number.
Sprintfayre was a 5yo gelding by Magnolia Lad owned by Peter J Colman, who at the time also owned a successful hurdler called Billy Boru, who, quite coincidentally, also happened to be a 5yo gelding by Magnolia Lad.
Billy Boru was also listed as trained by Rod Simpson, but until earlier in the year had been trained by none other than the late Albert Davison, who claimed to be retired from training at the time. A few months later both of these horses, along with several others previously trained by Davison, were running with the name of Monica Long as their trainer.
If you think the Best firm are iffy, they're as clear as daylight compared to what used to go on in the Davison yard.
Yet another stain on the sport. All so predictable.
The really disappointing thing is that the champion jockey, and probably the best known personality in the sport, has anything to do with this.
Fully expect the BHA to do nothing. Is there any other serious regulatory authority in the world that would allow what we saw today to happen?
The really disappointing thing is that the champion jockey, and probably the best known personality in the sport, has anything to do with this.
Fully expect the BHA to do nothing. Is there any other serious regulatory authority in the world that would allow what we saw today to happen?
£1949 to the winner,thats the crime here,my friends brothers greyhound a bog standard grader runs for more than that at the Meadows greyhound track Melbourne on a Saturday night.
I hardly ever look at a race like todays never mind bet on but if thats your bag looking for that sort of coup would be part of it I would of thought and in that respect not hard to spot
I hardly ever look at a race like todays never mind bet on but if thats your bag looking for that sort of coup would be part of it I would of thought and in that respect not hard to spot
spyker
03 Sep 14 16:26
I'm prob being very thick but what was gained by the nr and musical saddles other than to highlight what was going on? If only SH declared from stable (with Mccoy) it prob wouldn't have opened much shorter last night and it wasn't laid to that much at biggish prices anyway? Then they could have gambled away with just the improvement in form to explain - this looks very messy and dodgy to even those with no interest in racing.
spyker
03 Sep 14 16:50
Thanks for the explanations but it doesn't add up! I haven't got the figs but as of about 1ish last night when I went to bed there really wasn't that much bet on the race - SH had come in from about 12's to 9ish but to pennies. ITW drifts and withdrawn 1130ish, by which time SH has been backed all morning and is already 7/4ish. All they got by withdrawing the other 1 is a rule 4 from what i can see!
If only SH declared from stable (with Mccoy) it prob wouldn't have opened much shorter last night....Yes it would...MUCH shorter
and it wasn't laid to that much at biggish prices anyway?....no-one with more than a couple of brain cells is going to snaffle the peanuts available on here the night before and mark the bookies card for them
ITW drifts and withdrawn 1130ish, by which time SH has been backed all morning and is already 7/4ish....so you see that the longer-priced SH is backed all morning whilst the shorter-priced ITW is friendless (wonder why?) and you dont see how this has helped them get a better price about SH
All they got by withdrawing the other 1 is a rule 4 from what i can see!...no, they got McCoy on its back AFTER they had backed it (they seem to rate him higher than Rhys Flint)
03 Sep 14 16:26
I'm prob being very thick but what was gained by the nr and musical saddles other than to highlight what was going on? If only SH declared from stable (with Mccoy) it prob wouldn't have opened much shorter last night and it wasn't laid to that much at biggish prices anyway? Then they could have gambled away with just the improvement in form to explain - this looks very messy and dodgy to even those with no interest in racing.
spyker
03 Sep 14 16:50
Thanks for the explanations but it doesn't add up! I haven't got the figs but as of about 1ish last night when I went to bed there really wasn't that much bet on the race - SH had come in from about 12's to 9ish but to pennies. ITW drifts and withdrawn 1130ish, by which time SH has been backed all morning and is already 7/4ish. All they got by withdrawing the other 1 is a rule 4 from what i can see!
If only SH declared from stable (with Mccoy) it prob wouldn't have opened much shorter last night....Yes it would...MUCH shorter
and it wasn't laid to that much at biggish prices anyway?....no-one with more than a couple of brain cells is going to snaffle the peanuts available on here the night before and mark the bookies card for them
ITW drifts and withdrawn 1130ish, by which time SH has been backed all morning and is already 7/4ish....so you see that the longer-priced SH is backed all morning whilst the shorter-priced ITW is friendless (wonder why?) and you dont see how this has helped them get a better price about SH
All they got by withdrawing the other 1 is a rule 4 from what i can see!...no, they got McCoy on its back AFTER they had backed it (they seem to rate him higher than Rhys Flint)
they got McCoy on its back AFTER they had backed it (they seem to rate him higher than Rhys Flint)
That'd be a good one to add to the RP's Postdata section; "Jockey can actually do weight allotted"
That'd be a good one to add to the RP's Postdata section; "Jockey can actually do weight allotted"
Yes - The McCOY connection does look SO poor.
Same as - Frankel's jockey T QUEALLY - failing abjectly on all those 'non-buzzers' for Barney - before having an armchair ride to victory ... when wanted.
Same as - Frankel's jockey T QUEALLY - failing abjectly on all those 'non-buzzers' for Barney - before having an armchair ride to victory ... when wanted.
I think I know what you are saying spyker.
If Saint Helena is so well in only known by the stable, then keep the shorter priced horse in the race knowing it wont like the going and with McCoy on, meanwhile you have a reasonable jockey on SH to keep the price. It wins because no matter who is riding it has so much in hand. They then avoid all the trouble of switching jockeys and only have to explain the improvement.
If Saint Helena is so well in only known by the stable, then keep the shorter priced horse in the race knowing it wont like the going and with McCoy on, meanwhile you have a reasonable jockey on SH to keep the price. It wins because no matter who is riding it has so much in hand. They then avoid all the trouble of switching jockeys and only have to explain the improvement.
It wins because no matter who is riding it has so much in hand. They then avoid all the trouble of switching jockeys and only have to explain the improvement
Newsflash- it won a length, all out
Newsflash- it won a length, all out
aJay 03 Sep 14 22:35 Joined: 19 Aug 10 | Topic/replies: 109 | Blogger: AaJay's blog
£1949 to the winner,thats the crime here,my friends brothers greyhound a bog standard grader runs for more than that at the Meadows greyhound track Melbourne on a Saturday night.
Im pretty sure if its even running at the meadows on a saturday night its a lot better than a "bog standard grader"...
£1949 to the winner,thats the crime here,my friends brothers greyhound a bog standard grader runs for more than that at the Meadows greyhound track Melbourne on a Saturday night.
Im pretty sure if its even running at the meadows on a saturday night its a lot better than a "bog standard grader"...
Great to see the Racing Post giving this story plenty of coverage in the paper this morning.
when trainers have more than 1 runner in a race why not have them coupled for betting purpose
Duncan it doesn't matter what happened in the race. If it had got beaten would that have been ok?
You'll laugh your head off at this 'defence' of yesterday's goings on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHtczAWokZA
2 ways of looking at the race, I was lucky enough to get this as 1 of my tips at 6/1 and I was more confident of it winning than most of the bets I put on but on the other hand this can only be a bad thing for regular punters who must be scratching their heads at a horse with the form it had going off at 11/10 .
http://www.geegeez.co.uk/the-best-exploiter-of-the-system/
Patrick Starr
you are correct--last 2 runs/entries---
5th July--The Meadows race 8 grade 5-1st $5000 2nd $1430 3rd£720
25th August--Warragul race 8 1st $1650 2nd $475 3rd$235
"bog standard grader" an inappropriate description, a goodish grader.the point I was trying to make was £1949 to the winner for horse racing is completely unacceptable and no use at all----we need horses running for the prize money.
By the way I enjoy listening to greyhounds in Victoria online on 2KY radio---booming so I'm told and I will attend this New Year when visiting.
Uk greyhound racings travails pain me greatly.
you are correct--last 2 runs/entries---
5th July--The Meadows race 8 grade 5-1st $5000 2nd $1430 3rd£720
25th August--Warragul race 8 1st $1650 2nd $475 3rd$235
"bog standard grader" an inappropriate description, a goodish grader.the point I was trying to make was £1949 to the winner for horse racing is completely unacceptable and no use at all----we need horses running for the prize money.
By the way I enjoy listening to greyhounds in Victoria online on 2KY radio---booming so I'm told and I will attend this New Year when visiting.
Uk greyhound racings travails pain me greatly.
Who on earth is the guy on the right in the youtube clip ???
You Tube , is highly appropriate.
You Tube , is highly appropriate.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/sep/04/bha-mulling-action-jim-best-planetoid
“I don’t know about the BHA but I couldn’t see what all the fuss was about,”
Pure contempt. The words of a man who knows he can pretty much do what he wants.
“I don’t know about the BHA but I couldn’t see what all the fuss was about,”
Pure contempt. The words of a man who knows he can pretty much do what he wants.
Best does at least improve most of the cheap previously useless horses that come to him.
I was going to Worcester four years ago and noticed in the five day decs that he had one in the last called Mycenean Prince. It had been around for years with different trainers and its record was 0/42. On the overnight declarations he had McCoy on it and it was not then something that happened as often as now.
I wondered it might be one to get out on or play up any winnings on. In the morning paper it was a short priced favourite. I debated whether to do it as there was an ex Nicky Richards horse Nobel now trained by Bryan Story in the race that looked a safe EW bet at 10/1. In the end I left the race alone to preserve my days profit.
From memory Mycenean Prince opened on course around evens but at one time went out to 6/4 and was returned at 10/11.
Raceform said:
Made all, racing idly with ears pricked, ridden before 3 out, 6 lengths clear last, soon eased (op Evens tchd 6-5)
My wife said why didn't you do it, you have talked of it all week?
Nobel was second. Mycenean Prince won next time out for Best before being P/U at Plumpton and sold on to only win once more.
I was going to Worcester four years ago and noticed in the five day decs that he had one in the last called Mycenean Prince. It had been around for years with different trainers and its record was 0/42. On the overnight declarations he had McCoy on it and it was not then something that happened as often as now.
I wondered it might be one to get out on or play up any winnings on. In the morning paper it was a short priced favourite. I debated whether to do it as there was an ex Nicky Richards horse Nobel now trained by Bryan Story in the race that looked a safe EW bet at 10/1. In the end I left the race alone to preserve my days profit.
From memory Mycenean Prince opened on course around evens but at one time went out to 6/4 and was returned at 10/11.
Raceform said:
Made all, racing idly with ears pricked, ridden before 3 out, 6 lengths clear last, soon eased (op Evens tchd 6-5)
My wife said why didn't you do it, you have talked of it all week?
Nobel was second. Mycenean Prince won next time out for Best before being P/U at Plumpton and sold on to only win once more.
Oldgit, I think nobody here is disputing the fact that, Jim can train one. With regards to Mycenean Prince, the horse was having his first run for JB and had previously finished 2nd in a seller for a previous trainer before winning that race at Worcester, which was basically a seller in all but name. The horse probably benefited from a short break and a change of stable often gives a horse a new lease of life. I see absolutely nothing wrong with the way MP was handled by JB. Now lets move onto SH. The horse had been with JB throughout the Winter and was run a number of times on unsuitable going, as a result the handicapper had no choice but to give SH such a low mark. We then have the whole ruse of putting another runner in the same race, pulling it out and then switching jockeys. What price do you think they would have got if they just declared SH with AP booked? Not a great one IMO. The whole thing stinks.
Btw, The guy on the You Tube vid wearing the tie and cheap suit is an utter clown. I will have my maximum bet the guy doesn't make one penny from his punting.
Btw, The guy on the You Tube vid wearing the tie and cheap suit is an utter clown. I will have my maximum bet the guy doesn't make one penny from his punting.
trainer jamie snowden and jockey brendan powell questioned by the stewards before the race about riding instructions for there runner to the sky.
A great bit of training from Jim Best,and risky,only just did the job.Many people on here knocking a trainer for having a winner which we can all see on past flat form was better than his rating over jumps, beating the handicapper and trying to find improvement with horses who have not inspired but known ability will always be the biggest part of this game,this was a good effort by Jim and he needs praise!
A great bit of training from Jim Best
Yes, managing to get a 71 rated Flat horse a mark of 82 over hurdles. Such genius.
Yes, managing to get a 71 rated Flat horse a mark of 82 over hurdles. Such genius.
Rhys Flint, who has not ridden since March, had been declared to ride Saint Helena before McCoy became free. Some doubt has been expressed about whether Flint would have been able to do the weight on the horse, who carried just 10st 8lb.
“Rhys is a very good jockey and he’ll be getting plenty of rides for us,” Best said. “He rides out for us. I don’t know about his weight but I know he’s eager to get back riding.”
Lol..didnt enquire whether he could do 10-8 despite jock not having a ride for 6 months...BHA should be tracking Flint down and putting him on some scales asap
“Rhys is a very good jockey and he’ll be getting plenty of rides for us,” Best said. “He rides out for us. I don’t know about his weight but I know he’s eager to get back riding.”
Lol..didnt enquire whether he could do 10-8 despite jock not having a ride for 6 months...BHA should be tracking Flint down and putting him on some scales asap
Rear-division, pushed along to chase leaders 5th, driven 3 out, upsides next, led between last 2, jumped left and slight mistake last, all out (op 6/4),hardly your proverbial good thing, and not a barney job for sure,the other one might have been?
Credit to Jim Best, it's a masterstroke using Hans Christian Anderson as your scriptwriter.
staggering that people fall for this 'oh it had an injury...they gave it a break and sorted it out' horse$h!t...SH ran 3 times in a month when the handicapper was refusing to give it a handicap mark...surely no trainer runs a horse 3 times in a month if it's injured...what's worrying is the likes of Best and Curley can get these horses to run as if they barely have a pulse when it suits them and there's seemingly nothing to be done about it
Presumably 'a great bit of training' to take 7 runs to discover that the horse wanted better ground too?
Far bigger fish seem to go unnoticed and jockeys like Spencer been riding too orders for years,not i can't agree with the witch hunt on Jim,small stable trying when they can (we all gotta eat). He got one running later in the week red ? something? very similar only this one been doing best?
"Presumably 'a great bit of training' to take 7 runs to discover that the horse wanted better ground too?"
Dr Gonzo ,you may have hit the nail on the head with that comment,any fast ground horse are limited to two months of the year now are they not?,and even then they drench the flipping tracks to try and change it.
Dr Gonzo ,you may have hit the nail on the head with that comment,any fast ground horse are limited to two months of the year now are they not?,and even then they drench the flipping tracks to try and change it.
The better ground claim is total rubbish anyway. The race it cantered round in at Wincanton was run on ground fast enough to produce a time of 3m 32.6, only a couple of seconds over standard.
That race was won by Nordic Quest who finished 74 lengths in front of Saint Helena. When the same two horses met at Goodwood last autumn, Saint Helena was a couple of lengths the better at level weights, and that was on the soft ground she's now supposed to dislike.
That race was won by Nordic Quest who finished 74 lengths in front of Saint Helena. When the same two horses met at Goodwood last autumn, Saint Helena was a couple of lengths the better at level weights, and that was on the soft ground she's now supposed to dislike.
So, for the sake of argument, if you have a horse that wants fast ground, what reason is there to run it round Plumpton in January on bottomless ground?
Thousands of similar sorts have been beat The Anorak,I did not bet SH,too short for me,I was very interested in his other one,who I still feel could have walked it,but that's racing.
Dr Gonzo Sir Mark still runs stayers in sprint races at two,and so do most others,it all helps!
If you mean it helps in getting a lenient handicap mark, then yes.
Have a look at the Melbourne Cup,them Aussies have to run in sprints to get there 2 mile stayers off the radar.
Look folks it was SH turn to win,it's the same in most races,no crime committed,and this will never change
Can't get too worked up about something that happens all the time but swapping jocks is dodgy ground. Neither of the jocks would relish 10-8 and McCoy not being given notice that he's to do his lowest weight in 3 weeks+ in his 2nd ride of the day seems v v unlikely.
Apparently Best has a clear conscience,Great to know
Good old-fashioned coup. If you stage racing with low-prizemoney, handicaps/claimers and bookmakers, owners, trainers and jockeys need to pull off clever stunts like this to make ends meet.
That is what Gay Future and most of the others, including Curley's gambles, all boil down to.
Couldn't happen in Hong Kong, Australia, France - and indeed wouldn't need to.
That is what Gay Future and most of the others, including Curley's gambles, all boil down to.
Couldn't happen in Hong Kong, Australia, France - and indeed wouldn't need to.
One horse that Best did not get much of a return on for its owner was Gee Dee Nen. It supposedly cost £100K to get it from the Mark Tomkins yard where it was a six time Flat winner.
In about eight runs it only won a small Hurdle race at Ludlow before its owners sent it to Gary Moore who did not have much success with it either.
In about eight runs it only won a small Hurdle race at Ludlow before its owners sent it to Gary Moore who did not have much success with it either.
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