Clare Balding may quit C4

was that trainer andrew balding

Thank goodness for Ibrahima and Ramruna.

The personal attacks are unfair and totally unwarranted. And that's without getting in to the homophobic stuff.

The Channel 4 coverage is a mess and drives people away from the sport. But that was true before Clare Balding arrived and it won't change if she's replaced.

The show needs a different tone, and content that reflects the mostly betting-related interests of the few remaining viewers.

But I don't think the people involved could make the change at this stage even if they wanted to.

In any event, the whole sport is in a death spiral (or 'laying the foundations for future success' as the BHA likes to put it. It won't be long before C4 yields to the inevitable and pulls the plug on the whole exercise.

"If Matt Chapman or Lydia Hislop took over, Channel 4 racing would be dead and gone within 12 months."

If Matt Chapman took over, Channel 4 Racing ratings would soar!

I can't believe he hasn't been given the job already.

Don't blame presenters-they are only doing what the producer tells them to do. So long as the main channels assume that talking heads and fashion parades must take precedence over sport, nobody who is a serious fan will watch if there is an alternative. I watch RUK and ATR for racing, Eurosport for Athletics and Tennis when they cover it etc. They are not perfect either but if you are not prepared to attend a meeting in person, you have to watch what is available. Claire Balding is capable of high quality informed coverage of racing but is not allowed to do that. If she decides to leave, good for her.

There seems to lots of diverse opinions - forget the front man(woman) for the moment - the fact is that the whole format of the programme needs to change as it isn't working as evidenced by the constant decline in the viewing figures. I presume the research team asks questions to people in the street and attempts to identify if they are interested in racing and what would encourage them to watch the programme. I think we need to realise there are so many alternatives today & TV figures are probably in decline for lots of programmes - not like when I was a lad & you had 3 channels - how do you arrest the decline - perhaps you can't as it has reached the end of its natural lifespan but at least try something different as it will certainly wither & die in its current format. People better than me seem to be struggling in trying to give the programme an identity and it will certainly be noticed by racing people if it disappears but I think it inevitable

That's a good point, Geordie.

The ratings are already in such a tailspin (double-digit declines YoY) that they have nothing to lose by shaking things up.

Johnny_Mustang
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Whatever happened to Patrick Kinghorn?

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/singaporescene/football-presenter-allegedly-bit-co-host-face-053313081.html

The relentlessly pompous and patronising Balding is unwatchable, imho, but if you want the reason why the C4 viewing figures are in tailspin, take a look at the endless stream of impossible massive field handicaps that now mostly populate the terrestrial coverage.

This is absolutely not an accident - the bookmakers who now control this sport want this, and as the BHA and the media have a vested interest in their profitability, that's exactly what they get.

I'd bet that most of us got interested by backing a winner - the problem now, imo, is the people drifting into the C4 coverage don't ever back a winner, and so they just head back to one of the other 100 channels they have to choose from...

Can't really equate race type to viewing figures myself but I would agree that the ridiculous increase in the number of handicaps (particularly on Saturdays) is one of the biggest problems currently facing punters. Maybe some people want to try and solve the Times crossword every ten minutes but unless you are a bookmaker it will inevitably end in tears. Interestingly, Lydia Hislop appears to fall into this category as nobody on either specialist channel does more as a 'cheerleader' for these type of races.

If mainstream racing coverage does wants to attract a 'new audience' it really does need a proper overhaul in terms of style of presentation but doing that would almost certainly compromise the support of its sponsor.

Half the problem is the quest for a new audience. Channel 4 reported a few years ago that the demographic for the racing programmes was largely made up of over 45's. As the viewing figures they're mainly judged on are those for the Saturday afternoon programmes, the different audience they're hoping to appeal to are mostly off doing different things.

If they want to increase viewing figures it's almost a case of accepting what the audience is going to be and to cater exclusively for that audience. Unfortunately, that would seem to mean bringing back the old guard.

to all who say Balding has no input into production or format, can you imagine her saying it's all down to the production team if the viewing figures had shot up?

her premature retirement of Frankel burns long in the memory for this viewer...

I'd be a lot happier if Fitz was going as well - just cant listen to him anymore-drives me mad.

Rease. My favourite C. Balding red-face moment was, whenworking for the BBC, she read out on air:  "We've just had this email from a Miss R. Soles........" not realising it was a spoof instigated by Julian Wilson. Embarrassment all round at  BBC  management level!

the people who ch 4 are trying to attract and most saturday punters like the big field handicaps,the above audience have absolutely zilch interest in last weeks austrailia and tahgood races,most of your racing purist fans will have access to ruk and atr,and dont forget without the racegoers who like the big field handicaps there,ll eventualy be no racing anyway,re your saturday and concert punters

Chapman will ask the questions that the Toffs are to scared to ask, they also need a producer with a pair of balls to let the likes of Chapman a free rein to ask the real questions and not brush them under the carpet.

As I never watch channel 4, I would be highly delighted to see Chapman depart to there.

Wonderful interview with John Gosden last week which culminated with Ms. Balding drawing his attention to a possible black cloud approaching the course. Gosden, already as bored as the rest of us,had already walked away. Priceless.

Chapman would be too much of a risk for the likes of Channel 4 or any other terrestrial broadcaster for that matter.

so you want  ch 4 racing to ask the questions 2 dedicated racing channels and a dedicated racing paper wont ask,priceless a bit like asking john cravens newsround to ask the questions mp,s dare.nt ask in pm,s questions,

Matt Chapman ffs - has an orgasm if a horse wins by more than 1 length.
Hysterical about absolutely eveything.
Having to listen to him for over 2 hours on Channel 4 would be more than most could endure.
No possible chance.

Aug 25, 2014 -- 4:58PM, call it a day wrote:

Wonderful interview with John Gosden last week which culminated with Ms. Balding drawing his attention to a possible black cloud approaching the course. Gosden, already as bored as the rest of us,had already walked away. Priceless.

Yes I enjoyed that as well, the impeccable John Gosden just gave Balding a withering look as if to say, "what on earth are you blabbering on about?" and duly walked away in the other direction. Maximum respect to John Gosden

As regards to Balding, I find her insufferably pompous and if she does walk the plank then that's completely fine with me. if Fitzy is handcuffed to her at the time then that would be the ultimate win double, imo.

She is a Horse Racing snob but would you expect anything else considering her background?

Good pro presenter,imo.

Yes I saw that and thought she looked a trifle discomfited

wonder if that was the moment she decided

Nick Luck to get her job...Dettori retiring at end of year to be full-time Ch4 pundit in desperate attempt by Ch4 to get viewers back.Guesswork but...

Thought for a while that the trainers have lost or don't respect her. Though I think this is expected as when you're in the ring just before a big race you don't want a microphone and camera put in your face when you're trying to talk tactics with the jockeys. Also didn't like it when she asked Sheihk Mo last year about the doping after he won the Guineas, as it was a massive moment for him and was not what he needed in his moment of euphoria, same with poor Treadwell.

Also think Bet Fred being allowed to buy the Tote is an a bad decision and shows whoever is running racing doesn't have a clue what is best for the sport, as they could have got behind it and put the money back into racing. I'd hazard a guess he's taken millions from the scoop 6 already. I also can't believe they don't make them choose 6 races that are on Channel 4, as I thought that was the idea originally behind the bet?

Like lead on says too I can see Dettori coming in.

sageform's post at 13:23 is spot on imo. Balding can grate at times, but she is fundamentally a good presenter (and the personal attacks on her are totally unnecessary).

The core issue is clueless producers - too busy arsing around with pointless segments and talking heads, and utter nonsense like Gok Wan in the betting ring. They manage to make the reason the show actually exists - the racing - appear like its just another part of some sort of variety show. A variety show which, increasingly, appeals to no-one.

Nick Luck is in a different class to any of them for me. Informed, confident and witty.

Dr Gonzo spot on

Good to see homophobia is not dead either

Gok W@nk! He could do the fashion & racing in one go. Only joking, but shows how bad things could get.

Amazing what faith people have in someone who continually bluffs their way through an afternoon. Someone who is more likely to comment on 'Mrs trainers wife in a lovely hat rather than anything pertinent to the actual racing - is that what you want? It appears to me that those within the game tolerate her purely because of the historic family connection. Perhaps even that is now wearing a bit thin.

Claire Balding was the leading lady amateur rider during her student days and is a very professional TV presenter. Like many similar people she has to try to conform to the wishes of Producers who see sports coverage as entertaining the masses rather than providing any useful information. So it is not surprising that true fans don't like what they see. My other interest is in wildlife and although Springwatch etc. has made wildlife more popular, it makes real enthusiasts cringe and turn off the TV. Same problem.

Thought for a while that the trainers have lost or don't respect her. Though I think this is expected as when you're in the ring just before a big race you don't want a microphone and camera put in your face when you're trying to talk tactics with the jockeys. Also didn't like it when she asked Sheihk Mo last year about the doping after he won the Guineas, as it was a massive moment for him and was not what he needed in his moment of euphoria, same with poor Treadwell.




Of course Chapman would do none of this would he?   We don't want to upset the trainers or Sheik Mo, do we?
What a load of hypocrisy on here.

^^ That, or she's a pompous, patronising, class conscious elitist who lacks emotional intelligence and so ushers everyone around like some power crazed school mistress, making any show she's presenting totally unwatchable, imo...

To Sageform's post...

^ good analogy re: Springwatch. Those with knowledge of flora and fauna do cringe at the crassness of the presentation. It seems nowadays everything has to be dumbed down not e lowest common denominator in a desperate attempt to capture the most  couch potato audience.
C4 racing coverage had about as much intellect in its production/ content  as The One Show on BBC1

* to the lowest common ....

why should CH4 bother trying to get more people interested in racing when the racecourses themselves are trying to drive racegoers away by turning the course into a large drunken concert party where racing has to take second place to some has been bands and failed reality TV hopefuls.

C4 are driven by matters like TRYING to increase viewers as they live or die by how much they can charge advertisers.

In racing's case, the powers-that-be have clearly got hold of the wrong end of the stick as viewing figures have dropped alarmingly since the production was taken over by IMG.

Seen from the outside, they can only do one of two things.

Either make a programme which appeals to hard core racing fans/punters or do what the BBC did.

Drop horse-racing from the schedules completely.

Chapman would be a good choice. I know many people who do not like racing that will watch him.
He knows how to play the fool (some say it is natural) but put in useful information which is a skill.
I think old Luck does not like him to much, so imagine he may go playing second fiddle to a non paying public schoolboy
Imagine what that would do to his social status.
If Richard Hughes could retire he would add lots worth listening to his comments in place of Fitzgerald
I guess Gok Wang could replace Luck that would help with certain perceived quota ideas some have. He was not the worst thing on C4 Royal Ascot coverage either.
The only thing missing really is a female presenter with a brain.

Clare doesn't have to be on every single TV programme - I was half expecting her to show up on Doctor Who last Saturday - too much over-exposure.  I thought at one time Emma was being groomed as the face of C4 Racing, and then Clare was brought in on the big days because producers think she has got to be on everything.

Obviously C4 are trying to do a difficult job trying to appeal to the serious racing fans and also draw in a wider audience. And the danger here if they don't get it right, they could screw up on both fronts. Chapman got several mentions on here, he would be an interesting choice but maybe too much of a gamble (?)

Not a big fan of Gok Wan but have to say he was a lot better than I expected when he was on. Could be a good choice to get people in who might not normally watch racing. Give Emma more of a chance, and Nick Luck, Emma and Gok Wan as the main presenters.  Must have been a bit demoralizing for the rest of the team getting Clare in for the big days, and did viewing figures go up !

Funny the names that get mentioned and the ones that don't.

Gina Bryce would surely be top of the short-list to replace Clare.

Anyone who thinks Chappers might be a candidate should go and read the McCririck judgement. The presenter is 'an uninvited guest in the viewer's living-room.' All those BOOMS and YEEEHAAAs would alienate too many people.

No fan of Chapman at all, but he is bright enough to tailor his behaviour to the audience, and most importantly has forgotten more about the game than Balding or Gina bleedin Bryce will ever know.

Gary O'Brien good shout as well, smashing bloke and a top-notch presenter.

Am a little concerned that the thread is titled May quit.Imagine the disappointment if she decides not to quit.

Gok Wan as a main presenter?? It's not April 1st,is it? Perhaps that Rylan bloke from Essex could provide a supporting role?

Why not Terry Christian and Janet Street-Porter?
Should appeal to the yoof surely and perfectly fit C4's agenda of dumbing down racing in their slavish pursuit of increased ratings?

Janet Street-Porter is an Oldie now. At least she does say it as it is.

Makybe_Diva    25 Aug 14 13:02 

'If Matt Chapman took over, Channel 4 Racing ratings would soar!'
-------------

WHY?

The over-excitable - and, then - even more egotistical 'Motor-Mouth' -
- would turn OFF as many people as you, incorrectly, assume he would excite.

Removing balding would have to be a positive move. Where the TV bosses get the idea that she is competent or professional or even liked by more than handful of viewers ive no idea.

@Dotchinite -- Where the TV bosses get the idea that she is competent or professional or even liked by more than handful of viewers ive no idea.

Maybe they got that idea from the string of awards she has won for writing and broadcasting.

She might not be your cup of tea, but she does at least know something about racing and can string a sentence together, which is more than can be said for some racing broadcasters.

ATRs won awards mate........

She might know something about racing but it isnt a lot.

Doesn't stop her condescending to every last person watching as if they not only know nothing about racing, but also have the mental age of about 30 seconds, imo...

Agree with millhouse. Part of the problem with Clare Balding is she has carried over the exact same condescending presentation style that is a staple at the BBC. Also, C4 are too caught up in constantly selling horse racing to the viewer. There is also a real greyness about the presentation that doesn't help. I think Matt Chapman would be ideal and be a real breathe of fresh air.
Fitz, McGrath, Cunningham, Tanya - dull, dull, dull, pointless.

not a fan of chapman as all but must admit he would add a lot to that team like be a true racing fan

Only in this sport could people be employed as 'experts' who have been shown to be conclusively incapable of achieving the task at hand, imo.

A bit like hiring a plumber that's guaranteed to flood your kitchen...

at least she,s won awards,
ant and dec
x factor
g norton
etc,etc,

the bars not set very high,were not talking olympic records to walk of with a gong,

that swimmers father think he was s african and his off the cuff interview with balding and foster besides the pool at the olympics made balding a superstar,as the father was the star of the interview maybe its him who should be fronted our sports coverage,

Does anybody watch horseracing any more?

yep, he was the star - on the basis of being fat and saying 'unbelievable' over and over again.

that's all it takes to appeal to the masses these days...

@jonnyrant and to an extent @millhouse are right about the "selling" and to an extent the condescension but that is down to the producers not Clare Balding. It is not as if C4 Racing's style changes markedly when Nick Luck fronts it.

Write down a list of all the Channel 4 Racing presenters, then add the previous lot. Rank them on knowledge of racing, competence, condescension or anything else and I doubt you'd have Clare as worst on any single measure.

The problem is the production. IMG and the producers are chasing the wrong audience and they are doing it badly. Carl Hicks has brought all the faults of BBC's staid, static and studio-bound racing programmes which are added to IMG's "human interest" angles for the non-racing audience.

lets hope so .. vile

Ramruna she is a self promoting dreadfull woman she is even on to her 2nd condescending  book for fek sake,she was
Abused as a child you Know (bork) my family didn't treat me like my brother (Bork) my fkin heart bleeds and as for knowing a lot about racing  I just don't see it!

Claires got Lydia, Tanya and Emma licked.
Well she would like to have.......

She's a taker not a giver

@tonkability -- I do not know Clare's life story so I'll take your word for it. I've not read her first book and have no desire to read the next one. Does she know about racing? Well, she's not applying to be chief handicapper at Timeform but she grew up in a racing stables and was an amateur rider. She must have learnt something along the way even if only which end the Polos go in. Does she know more than, say, Rishi or Alice, or from the old days, Tommo, Big Mac or Lesley Graham?

I don't particularly care if she stays or not, because nothing will improve until the producers admit there is a problem. CB is not the problem. That's why there are threads each week saying the Morning Line is pants or that C4 Racing is. They do not alternate with threads saying how brilliant each programme is when Clare is off doing the rugby or whatever.

Even if you accept that she is on a par with the names mentioned (in my opinion she might rival Lesley Graham and Alice Plunkett but that isn't really saying much) do you really believe she is on the same money? She has represented dire value from the moment the contract was signed.

Just play some Julian Wilson recordings. That will do for me!

There's so many reasons C4 racing is/has been going downhill fast.

They need to work out that 99% of viewers watch for one reason only - to have a bet - yet where are the pundits that actually gamble on the show? Julian Wilson and Peter O'Sullevan both loved a punt, and so could connect with the viewer by talking through a race from the perspective of the punter. Alistair Down and McCririck had the same qualities...
I don't know for sure, but I'd imagine Clare Balding and Emma Spencer wouldn't be seen dead placing a bet on their fancy in the Wokingham. And Nick Luck hardly comes across as a hardened punter either.
For me, Big Mac's input in the betting ring was the most important part of the show - I'd much rather hear the facts of how the market is shaping than a hundred opinions of various ex jockeys and bookies' PR men... yet who do they replace McCririck with? A woman with no communication skills whatsoever, even after all these years, she still stumbles over every sentence - the Irish guy at Royal Ascot was head and shoulders better than her, why do they persist with her?

Lastly, the BHA have made every meeting bar chelt revolve around Saturdays, so theyre competing with every other sport going. What was wrong with the Craven meeting on tues-thurs? or RA on tues-fri? or god forbid, the Derby on a wednesday? That Wednesday in June was a massive public event that millions got involved in - now the average joe wouldnt know it was Derby Day from any other Saturday.

Rant over.

"......problem with Clare Balding is she has carried over the exact same condescending presentation style that is a staple at the BBC."

another problem, it just doesn't work having a part-time presenter, she is popping up on nearly every other damn programme, also supposed to be doing a Radio 2 Sunday morning show, but not doing it AGAIN this week or next week.... too much other stuff I imagine, she'll soon hold the record for least appearances on HER OWN SHOW !  She needs to focus on 1 or 2 things, I don't dis-like her but too much over-exposure !

i just cannot stand the new ch4 prog . balding.. cunningham .. spencer .. fe mail ... fitzgerald and Luck are just tiresome .

THE DREAMTEAM ???

BOLOX

I only ever watch ruk or atr .... i find Jim Mc Grath the only one with any decent insight but more and more blockhead cunningham keeps butting in with his motormouth which is starting to annoy Jim

i find Jim Mc Grath the only one with any decent insight but more and more blockhead cunningham keeps butting in with his motormouth which is starting to annoy Jim... I totally agree with that Zealot

C4 should have moved heaven and earth to keep John Francome onboard, great character, brilliant jockey and more proper insight into the world of horse racing, stewards strange thought processes etc. than most of us mere mortals and punters will ever have.
Also I think C4 pandered to public opinion and binned Big Mac far to quickly. He may have been a mysogynistic, snot-eating, ego-centric plastic black and white bastard ( I'm a mackem ) but at least the bloke was f*ckin interesting and genuinely knew what he was on about and had the punters interests at heart.
Clares ok and a decent Doris but C4 racing is dull beyond belief nowadays, not her fault.
One cant polish a turd.....

matt chapman..show him the money..

Clare's ok ffsk give over she's a liability everybody I know who isn't even into racing can't stand the condescending
rug muncher she's everywhere , she even spoils the cycling through Britain programme  which in my view would be a very good show without inane chatter .

The last time I watched C4 racing was the first race of the first day of the Cheltenham Festival.  I gave up on it when it "introduced" the first race LESS than 2 mins to the off.

By that time I had had a gut full of totally inept production and I do not think the presenter in question is the problem.

Very little is being done from a punter's perspective - and C4 that is your core viewer.  Visits to the ring are all about - this horse/ that horse coming in for support whilst any idiot can see it is bookmakers tightening up odds.  McCririck would be tamping at everything "coming in" [for alleged support and nothing "going out"] and the real controllers of the programme would have hated him for that. Tanya (nor Gleeson) are prepared to take this on (I doubt it has changed)

Balding, or any other presenter, has no chance of making the current format a success.  A set up "studio" does nothing for any atmosphere either - but having purchased the toy at the table they have to play with it (I bet they are still doing the same).  One contributor's voice really irritated me too - guess who!!!

The worst thing is - I don't think the show is interested in the views of the average punter.  Has any average punter on here ever been asked by the show what they think?  So we get to denigrate on a forum that "they" will not read but, worse, do not care.

The problem is the production. IMG and the producers are chasing the wrong audience and they are doing it badly. Carl Hicks has brought all the faults of BBC's staid, static and studio-bound racing programmes which are added to IMG's "human interest" angles for the non-racing audience.

That's it, in a nutshell. IMG/C4 have gone down the wrong path, but they're still not willing to admit it or do anything about it.

Whether it is intentional or not, IMG have done a poor job of putting the horses and the betting of the day at the forefront of the programme, which is where it needs to be. The presentation of the segments about the betting are utterly woeful. I wasn't the biggest fan of McCririck in recent years, but he would actually be a vast improvement on what it has descended to of late.

Too excellent posts.
Why chase an audience that has no interest in this great sport whatsoever and no amount of Gok Wans etc are ever going to change that, they will never switch on.
Personally I would rather lick my grannys minge than sit through the utter tedium that is Formula 1 and no amount of slick production would ever tempt me and it's the same with non-racing types, they simply dont care.
So why alienate your core audience?

Drive. IMG are looking for a bigger audience by using the usual marketing techniques of aiming for a younger and female segment of the viewing public.

Unfortunately, since making the pitch to Channel 4, nobody is prepared to admit mistakes were made.

Racing, as we all know on here, is a specialised market  -  a mix of punting minded individuals and genuine equine enthusiasts.

What we see on screen at present appeals to neither of these groups - hence the rapid decline in viewing figures over the pass year.

Whether C4 will take any remedial steps to put things right is a fascinating question.

The paradox is that even non-betting viewers need the same sort of information as punters (except perhaps the actual odds).

In order to watch racing, you need to have an opinion about what is likely to happen or what you want to happen -- based on form, pedigree, connections or Shergar Cup team. You need that opinion even if you are not betting, otherwise you are just watching brown quadrupeds run round a field.

Ramruna. Agreed. Whatever the motivation of watching horse racing, everyone has to have an opinion of the likely outcome, otherwise the sport becomes a pointless exercise.

So why does Channel 4 have such a massive line up of so-called experts ramming their subjective views down the viewer's throat?

The production company has no understanding of this type of audience. The people at the top at IMG appear to see things in terms that racing-minded people are more or less the same sort of individuals who tune in to watch programmes such as Strictly Come Dancing or the X-Factor.


Surely they must realise by now that horse racing is a specialised viewing subject in the extreme? Maybe not.

I think it's abundantly clear that they don't The Pinhooker.

Quite why they can't see the bleeding obvious is beyond me.

Isn't the problem that televised racing is in decline (along with many other sports). There are not enough devotees to justify the cost of good quality free-to-air coverage. Therefore the producers have no choice but to try to attract a new market. I fear that if/when Dubai pull the plug, we will be reduced to the classics and the main festivals. Personally, I can't stand CB and repeated exposure to GC and MF both grate, but I do recall McCririck, Lesley Graham, Thommo and co. and I don't see the current bunch as any worse.

C4/IMG should be spending on Market Research covering both the core market and occasional viewers, to arrive at a mix which will maximise audience. I assume that they are doing this.

This was a typical non-story of Lee Mottershead, a formerly solid journalist.

Non Story instigated by the biggest self publicist  we have seen in a long time ie Clare she would eat herself if she could!

id luv to see harry findley get a go at presenting it hed have the balls to ask the awkward questions and it certainly would be entertaining

Harry might ask the awkward questions but would he stop talking long enough for anyone to answer?

would you really want tips from someone who lost all his money gambling?