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SHADDER
04 Sep 13 11:09
Joined:
Date Joined: 23 Oct 02
| Topic/replies: 465 | Blogger: SHADDER's blog
Makes ya laugh,be fair to the customer,bookmakers behave!! this the guy that bets 3% a runner Cheltenham festival centaur arena !!
NOW THATS FAIR GEOFF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Report Racecourse Regular September 9, 2013 1:09 PM BST
Fact - You have seen the light long before many others, on-course books will eventually become like the offcourse firms having to go a bigger price to draw custom in...........
Report frog2 September 9, 2013 1:16 PM BST
never refusing a wager

SPORTSADVISOR/GEOFF,

Do you mean you dont limit the stakes winning customers on your website?
Report frog2 September 9, 2013 1:16 PM BST
*of winning customers
Report Sportsadvisor September 9, 2013 6:22 PM BST
Frog, Do I limit stakes? Yes to people we identify as arbers or traders. We can't make money from them. It's an exercise in work.
FactMachine - most certainly there will be bookmakers but we won't be led by the FRB. A dinosaur approach to negotiations and tracks.
We will address:
1. Cashless punters
2. Our attitude to customers
3. Exchanges- should they be an integral part of how we operate on course. (not me!)

geoff
Report factmachine September 9, 2013 6:29 PM BST
GEOFF AS REGARDS MY EARLIER QUESTION TO U,DO U THINK U WILL STILL BE AN ONCOURSE BOOKMAKER IN YOUR OWN PITCHES IN 2 YEARS TIME???????
Report factmachine September 9, 2013 6:37 PM BST
GEOFF,GEOFF,WHERE HAVE U GONE????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????...
Report factmachine September 9, 2013 6:42 PM BST
A SIMPLE YES OR NO WOULD SUFFICELove
Report homefortea September 9, 2013 7:53 PM BST
Feck me the usual arbers or traders excuse..

Geoff you should hang your head in shame...

What you mean are the shrewd and the winners....
Report mugbookie September 9, 2013 9:27 PM BST
SPORTSADVISOR - JUST SPOKE TO THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER.....HE'S ABSOLUTELY DELIGHTED THAT YOU'VE DECIDED TO ADDRESS THE 'CASHLESS PUNTER' ISSUE....SAID THE PUNTERS HAVING NO CASH IS SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN KEEPING HIM AWAKE NIGHTS....SAVES THE POOR FELLA FROM HAVING TO PRINT ANY MORE.Shocked
Report Sportsadvisor September 9, 2013 9:48 PM BST
fact machine
yes I will
Report Sportsadvisor September 9, 2013 9:49 PM BST
homefortea - i run a business for profit. That's why it's called business. Professional punters - as opposed to the amateur breed don't put bacon with my eggs.
I make no apologies to you or anyone for that. It's called 'running a business'
Report scaredmoney September 9, 2013 10:28 PM BST
dont sit on the fence hft ffs Laugh
Report Sportsadvisor September 9, 2013 10:31 PM BST
homefortea - and you are who?
Report TheNorfolkMafia September 9, 2013 10:34 PM BST
Seconds out!

Round 1

Laugh
Report foxy September 9, 2013 10:36 PM BST
anonymous forum

perhaps the time has come for betfair to only allow people to use there own names .
Report Sportsadvisor September 9, 2013 10:39 PM BST
how rude people get hiding behind the cloak of anomynity. Wouldn't be so vocal I'm sure if we knew his name. Keep it civil or keep it to yourself
Report mugbookie September 9, 2013 10:40 PM BST
SPORTS - DONT ENCOURAGE HIM.....THIS FELLA SLAGGED OFF OLEARY WHEN HE DONATED 200K TO JT MACNAMARA.
Report roo September 10, 2013 9:04 AM BST
Racecourse Regular     09 Sep 13 10:56 
FACT - Yesterdays announcement in the Racing Post that free wifi will be available to all punters from the next meeting will not help (it has been in the testing stage at previous meetings)   Anybody with a Royal Ascot pitch has seen it's value half at least overnight with such an announcement.

We live in the technological age and customers demand wifi and venues they visit now be it Starbucks, MCDonalds the local Hotel e.t.c

Others thought not...... but since the racecourses struck the best deal on earth known to man with Racecourse books recently..... they can now hook up with a betting partner on raceday so as soon as you log-in to WIFI the site of that betting partner comes straight up and away you go............


Security guards at ARC tracks are hounding people off the racecourses for placing wagers by hand held phones, its about time the archaic terms and conditions at tracks were changed.

They jump into bed with the bookies sponsorship, The grilliam grill at 0800 bla bla bet in play maiden ffs.
Report mugbookie September 10, 2013 9:26 AM BST
ROO - HAD THIS DEBATE WITH RR BEFORE....WHEN WIFI BECOMES AVAILABLE ON RACECOURSES, THERE'S NO WAY THAT THEY WILL BE ABLE TO RESTRICT THE SERVICE TO A SINGLE 'PREFERED' OPERATOR....IT WOULD BREAK ALL SORTS OF EUROPEAN FREE TRADE/COMPETITION LAWS.IT WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY BE THE DEATH KNELL....COMBINED WITH EVER INCREASING EXPENSES.... FOR ON COURSE BOOKMAKING IF WE DONT CHANGE FROM THE THE CURRENT PRICING MODEL OF EXCHANGE PRICE MINUS A TICK.
Report factmachine September 10, 2013 9:37 AM BST
VERY TRUE MUG,EVEN SOME ILLUMINATI IN PRIME PITCHES ARE GOING"BIGGER THAN THE MACHINE"AS RIBERO WILL NO DOUBT CONFIRM LaughLaugh
Report adge September 10, 2013 9:43 AM BST
roo , your post about ARC security. is that true as I would be surprised .
Report Racecourse Regular September 10, 2013 9:54 AM BST
Mug - To Repeat what I said before..... If I log into a Wifi in my hotel or MacDonalds they host the homepage, but with various pop up ads....... let me put this another way..... you will probably get the Ascot home page e.t.c but with a very prominent web banner advertisement with the Billy website e,t,c.......... Billy will have paid Ascot X for the privilidge...... nothing wrong with that as far as I can see......... Ok I backtracking slightly I know......... I would suggest that this site will have first refusal on any prominent advertising

When are the on-course books going to realize that bigger than the exchange is the future....... Fact has realised and fair play to him.......... the flimpers days are numbered and on-course books need to act know and make sure they don't look round and say where have all the punters gone we better do something about it know......... it will be too late by then
Report Racecourse Regular September 10, 2013 9:55 AM BST
The Illumani Going Bigger than the machine surely not they have seen the light at last........ 21st century bookmaking......... just need to apply the same to their negotiating skills and commercial awareness now Laugh
Report Racecourse Regular September 10, 2013 9:56 AM BST
Bigger than the machine.......... its the future
Report wasnot September 10, 2013 9:58 AM BST
So let me get this right.  The future for on-course bookmaking is that once all racegoers have their smartphones logged into betfair our only way of making a profit is to go bigger than betfair and let the punters back with us and lay at less on here for a free day out?  Is that right?  Sounds like a great plan Laugh
Report factmachine September 10, 2013 9:59 AM BST
RR AND THE ODD MEMBER OF THE ILLUMINATI WILL ACTUALLY LAY A BETHappyBUT NOT TO MUCHSad
Report parispike September 10, 2013 10:01 AM BST
Stephen Little accommodated professional punters sportsadvisor. Why can't you?
Report factmachine September 10, 2013 10:04 AM BST
WASNOT,SO LET ME GET THIS RIGHT,THE FUTURE FOR ONCOURSE BOOKMAKING IS THAT ONCE ALL RACEGOERS HAVE THEIR SMARTPHONES LOGGED INTO BETFAIR  WE JUST SIT BACK HOPING TO TAKE THE ODD £2 THEN COMPLAIN THAT WE CANT STRIKE A BET,WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS THE COMMISSION AGENTS AND THE FLIMPERS WILL BE GONE OVERNIGHT,SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT PLANHappyHappyHappy
Report factmachine September 10, 2013 10:07 AM BST
PUNTERS KNOW U CANT GET TWO BOB ON HERE OR THE DAQ,COME RACING,WITH BOOKMAKERS THAT TAKE A BETHappyNO COMMISSION,NO PREMIUM CHARGE,THE FUTURES BRIGHT,BRING IT ON!
Report adge September 10, 2013 10:07 AM BST
and now he's seen out and about riding  on a bike.

seriously though , Geoff Banks doesn't refuse any bets on course. the offices and internet are totally different gravy
Report Racecourse Regular September 10, 2013 10:08 AM BST
Fact lol
Report Racecourse Regular September 10, 2013 10:08 AM BST
Where have all those punters gone........ oh I better do something now to compete
Report Racecourse Regular September 10, 2013 10:09 AM BST
Laugh
Report factmachine September 10, 2013 10:09 AM BST
THE ONLY THING WE NEED TO BE WORRYING ABOUT IS THE TOTALLY UNSUSTAINABLE DEAL DONE ON OUR BEHALF WITH THE RACECOURSES.
Report Racecourse Regular September 10, 2013 10:12 AM BST
you compare apples with Pears....... Stephen Little operated in an era when he could make a proper book by taking a weight of money on a spread of horses........ Big Turnover but small margins......... In Geoff;s era he is likely to be filled in on one or two selections and won't see a bean for the rest of the runners........ What would you do?  As he says it's business..... but again the face of the business has changed
Report foxy September 10, 2013 10:13 AM BST
as a matter of interest does anybody think its time for a live auction ?
Report Racecourse Regular September 10, 2013 10:14 AM BST
Fact Don't worry.......... Now Ascot have opened up the Free Wifi to the paying public........ the negotiators have realised that turnover is likely to go through the floor 50% at first estimation.......... and they are lining up a meeting with Racecourse Management to ask for a 50% reduction in the badge fee going forward........... that;s dynamic negotiation for you
Report Racecourse Regular September 10, 2013 10:14 AM BST
Laugh
Report wasnot September 10, 2013 10:18 AM BST
I don't have any objection to punters having the freedom of choice whilst on course as to who they bet with.  If they choose exchanges over us, so be it.  I will however take exception to punters stood in front of the joint using our prices to then lay horses on here.  Once the legislation is through regarding point of consumption taxation, to my mind anyone laying horses whilst on the racecourse should have to buy a betting badge from the racecourse.
Report factmachine September 10, 2013 10:22 AM BST
RR,THE FACE OF BUSINESS HAS CHANGED AND NOT FOR THE BETTER,WE ARE IN A INDUSTRY WERE U COULD GET MORE ON AS A PUNTER 30 YEARS AGO,THE WHOLE JOB IS BEING RUN BY PEOPLE WHO TO PUT IT SIMPLY DO NOT WANT TO TAKE ANY RISK WHATSOEVER,AND HAVE NO PROBLEM DRIVING PEOPLE AWAY FROM THE GAME,THEN HAVE THE AUDACITY TO COMPLAIN THAT FOOTFALL,TURNOVER,SLIPAGE,IS ALL DOWN,U COULDNT WRITE IT.
Report Racecourse Regular September 10, 2013 10:22 AM BST
Wassy I don't disagree.... however that would never come to light in a million years..... as we are all aware the internet must handle an enormous number of financial transactions on a daily basis be it banking or whatever...... a bet struck at the racecourse is purely another financial transaction is it not which unfortunately is also being replaced by technology and will continue to be so unless there is a clear differential in offering........   

I don't think the suggestion is that exchanges are topped massively just a small amount to make that clear differentiation in the offering and hopefully extend the longevity of Racecourse Bookmakers
Report adge September 10, 2013 10:23 AM BST
yes foxy , that would also get bookmakers together .
the two lots I have for sale now I would rather put in a live auction
Report wasnot September 10, 2013 10:25 AM BST
But that happens already RR.  If you walk behind the joints there is flashing red on virtually every one.  I understand that my suggestion is unlikely but as a revenue raiser the racecourses may run with it anyway.  They love making a few extra £s.
Report Racecourse Regular September 10, 2013 10:26 AM BST
Fact - Spot on again........ far too easy for far too long is a phrase that springs to mind......... as you say those days long gone......... every other high street business that failed to adapt is no longer ......... HMV, e.t.c 

Look at the business's now that are thriving..... 99p World, Poundland e.t.c........ it's all small margin stuff...... the world in which we live I am afraid
Report factmachine September 10, 2013 10:29 AM BST
ALTHOUGH I HAD HEARD A RUMOUR THAT THE ILLUMINATI WERE POOLING THEIR RESOURCES AND GOING INTO COMPETITION WITH POUNDLAND,ITS GOING TO BE CALLED TENNERLANDLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report factmachine September 10, 2013 10:30 AM BST
I THINK IVE JUST WET MYSELF AGAINPlain
Report Racecourse Regular September 10, 2013 10:30 AM BST
Wassy but the Racecourse will be getting far more £'s from striking the deal with the betting exchange to allow it to advertise on the Racecourse homepage which would be the first thing you would see when you log into their network...........

I think on that basis it would then be a bit unfair to adopt what you are saying as it would be with the racecourses's blessing.......

Healthy competition surely no different to the fish & chip man and the seafood stall round the back of the stand........  this is the future Wassy and any negotiators should have had the foresight to put a contingency in place or some caveat to say that when those terms were agreed it was on the basis that Racecourse Bookmakers would be the preferred betting partners/ only choice of the public
Report factmachine September 10, 2013 10:31 AM BST
AND WHEN U TRY TO BUY SOMETHING THEY SAY"ITS GONE"
Report Racecourse Regular September 10, 2013 10:31 AM BST
LaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report Racecourse Regular September 10, 2013 10:32 AM BST
Not a bad idea Fact......... U would know where you stood then......... no need to ask for anymore....... Just the standard tenner
Report factmachine September 10, 2013 10:33 AM BST
RR,WISE WORDS AS USUALLove
Report Racecourse Regular September 10, 2013 10:34 AM BST
No that wouldn't be able to say it's gone........ this is stack it high small margin stuff....... the shop never runs dry....... that is just bad business...... and makes you look very bad in front of your customers
Report The Good Firm September 10, 2013 10:39 AM BST
never thought I would hear Geoff Banks hide behind the old "arbers" b0llox.

There is no money up to arb anymore GB, by all means limit and close people, but hiding behind the ARB word is total cobblers.
Report factmachine September 10, 2013 10:39 AM BST
RR,ARE U ATTENDING THE NORTHERN BPA ON SUNDAY???????
Report adge September 10, 2013 10:43 AM BST
around 120 expected , so get there early and get to the front
Report Racecourse Regular September 10, 2013 10:44 AM BST
No Fact... Ill leave you to try and make some progress in forging collective views of the majority whilst taking account of external factors that threaten everybody's trade in the 21st century......   Iv'e got every faith in you....... if you need a vote you know where I am
Report factmachine September 10, 2013 10:45 AM BST
ADGE I WAS HOPING TO BE SAT NEXT TO ULove
Report factmachine September 10, 2013 10:46 AM BST
RRLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report adge September 10, 2013 10:47 AM BST
you could be next year , fact
Report foxy September 10, 2013 11:42 AM BST
was I included in the 120 adge ? hoped more would show interest in a live auction instead of going over the same ground on a daily basis.
Report frog2 September 10, 2013 11:50 AM BST
Sportsadvisor

I don't declare my margin, nor show any remorse for running a book to make money, just like any other business. I take pride in the quality of service given to my customers- never refusing a wager

Sportsadvisor

Frog, Do I limit stakes? Yes to people we identify as arbers or traders. We can't make money from them. It's an exercise in work.

Sportsadvisor

homefortea - i run a business for profit. That's why it's called business. Professional punters - as opposed to the amateur breed don't put bacon with my eggs.

.................

Geoff can we have some clarification on this.

you state you 'never refuse a wager'

then you state you limit stakes of arbers and traders.

then you ramble on about bacon and eggs.

.................

Do you limit the wagers of winning punters who bet outright on horses. No trading no arbing - just punters????

Or are you a professional bookmakers who backs his ability to price and balance his book offering the same terms to all punters (bar traders and arbers)??
Report tinkler September 10, 2013 11:52 AM BST
Been to Haydock a few times this year on busy Saturdays and 3 G connection worked great.  Last Saturday managed to spot a horses price
that was matching BF price ,it lasted about 1 1/2 mins which surprised me. It was the only one spotted though despite having a very good view of
the back 2 lines of bookies and the rails bookies, all in all the on course bookies were offering their usual poor quality big margin  over round service.
Report REGIT September 10, 2013 12:17 PM BST
I think its time to find out if we have a place on the racecourse in the future.i personally think if bookmakers werent there ,punters wouldnt come.im fed up of negotiating from a weak position.it wont happen cos we will never agree but i would like to see a week advertised well in advance where no books turned up and lets see what happens.if punters didnt turn up we could then negotiate a new deal which suits both parties and if they kept coming then its official weve had it.
this each way deal sucks.how a body thats basically taken advantage of a government error to steal our pitches,charge us more,allow btfrd to put mobile joints all over OUR ring has the gaull to tell us how to bet(whether you agree with the new terms or not)beggars belief.if  25% of people who place a bet at non standard place terms cos they dont realise is about right i can assure you that 100% of people who bet chesterbet or ripon bet are uneducated.IF THE RACECOURSES ARE REALLY CONCERNED GO BACK TO 5 TIMES THE ENTRANCE SCRAP MARKETING AND ASK US TO BET STANDARD TATTS TERMS.sportsadvisor says we should negotiate but please give me an instance of the racecourses being fair with us.business has been very good this year and if your not having a good year after the weather weve had wait till we have a bad year.finally please come to the NBPA meeting on sunday.talking on here achieves nothing.
Report factmachine September 10, 2013 12:47 PM BST
YEP THE ONLY THING WEVE FOUND OUT ON HERE,IS THAT GEOFF LIKES BACON AND EGGS WITH A CUP OF TEA!
Report factmachine September 10, 2013 12:49 PM BST
OH AND HE WONT LAY ARBERSShocked
Report factmachine September 10, 2013 12:53 PM BST
TINKLER,THE NEXT TIME U GO TO HAYDOCK POP IN THE SPECSAVERS IN ST HELENS TOWN CENTRE,EVERY FAV BIGGER THAN THE MACHINE AT EVERY MEET I HAVE ATTENDED,FANTASTIC VALUE FOR THE PUNTERS,COME RACING(PREF WITH YOUR NEW GLASSES)
Report adge September 10, 2013 1:10 PM BST
in fairness , fact , he is talking about a busy Saturday which tinkler uses to confirm his blinkered view.
when he attends quiet midweek fixtures he and all others will be converted very swiftly
Report 1st time poster September 10, 2013 1:12 PM BST
wasnot did you really type this,

i take exception to punters using our prices on the boards t lay off,thems would be the tissue prices you,ve earlier took off the online firms and then watch betfair to monitor any market moves, as on course bookies you are obviously the last to price up them prices may have many claims to ownership the only certainty is there not yours, LaughLaughLaugh
Report wasnot September 10, 2013 1:54 PM BST
If you read what I actually typed first time it was the ability of punters to lay horses while stood in the betting ring without buying a betting badge that I was objecting to.

Might I suggest you have a bit more water with it?
Report IanP September 10, 2013 3:13 PM BST
The free WiFi at Chester blocked all the bookmaker/exchange sites that I have tried.
Report Racecourse Regular September 10, 2013 3:51 PM BST
Good on Chester..... But who are the main sponsor at Ascot?
Report Racecourse Regular September 10, 2013 3:52 PM BST
Chester is Council owned don't forget..... not sure if that should make a difference
Report unbiased September 10, 2013 4:12 PM BST
wasnot,are you related to Ralph Topping,because you are using his thoughts?
   I realise that you oncourse guys are experiencing a lot of problems,many due to your poor lack of negotiating ,and all pulling together and singing from the same hymn sheet.No collective voice!
   However the nonsense you posted about a punter using their phone to lay a horse oncourse  should be buying a betting badge,is a reluctance to accept,just like Topping,that the exchanges are the stake holder,have the licence etc.
Betfair has been trading since 2000 and it is now 2013,yet after all these years you still believe that the use of it by punters to lay is wrong.What difference laying oncourse,at home,in a bar,or in the toilet?!
  Reminder,bookmakers are stakeholders,exchanges are stakeholders,punters are not.
   If many bookmakers are supposedly going bigger prices on favourites than the exchanges,what is the point of going racing with all the collective expenses,when you could be laying them in the comfort of your home?
Report swift-tuttle September 10, 2013 4:17 PM BST
If you read what I actually typed first time it was the ability of punters to lay horses while stood in the betting ring without buying a betting badge that I was objecting to.

I don't get it
What particular advantage would a punter gain (if he wanted to lay a horse) by standing in the ring?
Report foxy September 10, 2013 4:20 PM BST
the point is because we all love it.
Report tinkler September 10, 2013 5:26 PM BST
The "I'll never refuse a wager " is meaningless without knowing what price is prepared to be laid. Anyone can say it ,then offer a price a
lot shorter than BF and arb it back, the exact think bookies moan about and use as an excuse to close down winning accounts.
It doesnt sound like Mr banks is a skilled enough bookmaker to be able absorb  winning accounts.
Report factmachine September 10, 2013 7:30 PM BST
UNBIASED,"SUPPOSEDLY GOING BIGGER PRICES ON FAVOURITES THAN THE EXCHANGES"WELL ITS NOT JUST THE FAVS MY FRIEND,AS FOR LAYING EM SAT AT HOME YEP THATS FINE IF U WANT TO FIDDLE ABOUT WITH FIVERS,LAST YEAR AT WOLVS 30 MINS BEFORE A RACE £80 MOVED A HORSE ON HERE FROM 11/4 TO 11/8,BETFAIR FOR THE PAST FEW YEARS HAS STEADILY GOT WEAKER AND WEAKER,WITH MORNING MARKETS VIRTUALLY NON EXISTENT/PLACE MARKETS TOTALY NON EXISTENT,MOST OF THE TRADING DONE IN THE LAST 5 MINS,PUNTERS DO HAVE A CHOICE AND IF THEY WANT TO FIDDLE ABOUT ON HERE PAYING COMMISSION/PREMIUM CHARGE GOOD LUCK TO THEM,BUT U CANT BEAT A DAY AT THE RACES AND THAT INCLUDES VALUE WITH THE ONCOURSE BOOKS.
Report factmachine September 10, 2013 7:31 PM BST
WELL SOME OF EMHappy
Report rcing September 10, 2013 7:35 PM BST
LAST YEAR AT WOLVS 30 MINS BEFORE A RACE £80 MOVED A HORSE ON HERE FROM 11/4 TO 11/8

fact , what price was said horse on course or in the shops when it was 11/8 on here ?
Report factmachine September 10, 2013 7:39 PM BST
RCING,I THOUGHT EVERYONE KNEW THE SP IS TAKEN FROM 3 BOOKS WHO ARE DISPLAYING THE WORSE PRICE,SO PROBABLY 6/5 WHEN 6/4 OFFERED IN THE RING,COME RACINGHappy
Report factmachine September 10, 2013 7:42 PM BST
THE SP HAS LITTLE OR NO REFLECTION TO THE PRICE THAT U CAN OBTAIN IN THE RING!
Report rcing September 10, 2013 7:43 PM BST
so the sad part is that jimmy jones is sat at home and tries to manipulate a market for a poxy £80 , and 8000+ betting shops follow ?

or , jimmy jones just wants £80 on the horse before he goes out for the evening , so takes whatever money available and 8000+ shops follow ?

crazy
Report factmachine September 10, 2013 7:52 PM BST
THATS HOW EASY IT IS TO MANIPULATE THE PISS WEAK MARKETS ON THE EXCHANGES,IT ALSO WORKS THE OTHER WAY WERE THEY PUSH EM OUT FOR PEANUTS.
Report johnnywilkinson September 10, 2013 8:41 PM BST
aADGE WHAT ROO SAYS ABOUT ARC SECURITY STAFF IS BANG ON
Report unbiased September 11, 2013 2:10 PM BST
factmachine,that is clearly an over exaggeration.Meanwhile putting £100 on a rag,pre exchange during the week would also see the marker pens,and board wipers going crazy.Besides which 30 mins before off time isn't relevant.Watching the turnover on here for many races,still shows plenty of liquidity in the last 5 mins or so,when most business is transacted.
   Sure you have to defend the ring,which is understandable,but the exchanges are here to stay.Betfair established 10 years!!!
Isn't it the "magic sign" shortening them on Daq for the ring?
Report Sportsadvisor September 12, 2013 10:27 AM BST
Frog. I haven't refused a bet on course in any respect- except to other Bookmakers (ie I favour punters business first) at MY odds since I took over from my Father. That's over ten years. Not a single bet

Off track is different and you must respect I have been honest. Yes the exchanges are smaller- as are those who make a living trading between Bookmakers online and exchanges. The key is they are running a business off the back of my own. It's widely accepted the 'ONLINE MARKET' won't make money out of these players. It's true we could be 'filled in' to any amount at odds made up by some spotty trader - fresh out of play school. Could we compile our own? Well the simple answer is no. Most of British Horseracing is bet to very low margins and very low returns to connections. It's become common place to prepare horses for gambles in a manner that's so transparent it offends the sensibilities not only of Bookies, but fair minded punters too. ie Am I Blue. Unpunished, although it made every paper and Sky News that evening!

I do not want to run an off track business where i limit genuine players- be they WINNERS or LOSERS. To do this, I have to weed out the professional gamblers. Some of which will be reading this. It may be an irritant to them not to get on with me amongst others, but that's the difficulty those in business face. Should I respect their need to run their business off my back? I'll let you make up your mind on that.

As for opinions? Check my twitter timeline geoffbanksbet. We regularly buck the exchanges - and the bets we lay aren't tenners

Geoff Banks
Report Sportsadvisor September 12, 2013 10:35 AM BST
As for those sensible Bookmakers on here posting their concerns as to negotiations on racetracks? Want my Suggestion?

Don't permit the FRB to negotiate on your behalf. Their approach has been confrontational and naive. I have distanced myself from their approach and I've no wish for those individuals to act on my behalf.

I argued for two things in the pitch deal
1. Modified gold flag terms in every racetrack contract (inc win only and 16-21 at 1/5th) This would have defused necessity to use E regs to mandate them
2. Racetracks who competed with us on 'Betting' to have their multipliers reduced to reflect increased competition

Both were rejected by the FRB. Both have proved to be worthwhile. The FRB tend to negotiate on our behalf without consultation with members and i disagree with this. I have made this clear to RG
Report tinkler September 12, 2013 10:55 AM BST
You don't expect serious horse players to be allowed to run a business off
your back , but are happy to run a business of the back of compulsive
gamblers and those uneducated about betting matters.
Cannt see how it's anything to brag about you never refusing a bet at
MY odds if your odds are poor, a meaningless statement.
Report Racecourse Regular September 12, 2013 10:57 AM BST
Geoff- Commercially Aware , Forward Thinking, and Protectionist of the Trade of the majority of whom you are supposed to represent........... if you cannot answer all three to all of these you have no place on any negotiating/representative committee  end of............

You are dealing with organisations (i.e racecourses) whom are geared up to make a profit.... and have come on leaps and bounds in a relatively short space of time in the quest to do so........... those sitting on the other side doing the negotiating on behalf of the majority need to be equal to the task
Report Sportsadvisor September 12, 2013 11:10 AM BST
Regular. I think you need to read the industry news a little more

Tinkler - interesting spin you put upon matters 'compulsive and uneducated. Nice try
Report Sportsadvisor September 12, 2013 11:19 AM BST
Racecourse regular
'Others thought not...... but since the racecourses struck the best deal on earth known to man with Racecourse books recently..... they can now hook up with a betting partner on raceday so as soon as you log-in to WIFI the site of that betting partner comes straight up and away you go............'
Your quote seems to suggest you believe the deal to be one sided. Yet two minutes ago you seem to be suggesting our negotiators were 'up to the task'
or are you suggesting I'm not up to the task?
I beg to differ
Report Racecourse Regular September 12, 2013 11:38 AM BST
Sports - Of course the deal is one sided....... you had people negotiating to protect their own interests/investments rather than looking at the trade i.e racecourse bookmakers as a whole......... without looking at the bigger picture i.e what would happen down the line........ Ascot will be totally non workable as a Racecourse Bookmaker within 5 years is my prediction with the introduction of WiFI....... it is already very hard for a back line pick there as it is......

I had already suggested tongue in cheek in a previous post that the negotiators are already visiting racecourses and asking for a 50% reduction in the badge fee as a result of the Wi-Fi Network......... next move will to be have a preferred betting partner advertising on the front of their home page......... you will just log in place a bet from the bar or anywhere on the track.....

Excatly the opposite, your ideas are commercial and forward thinking exactly what is needed in the current day environment
Report Sportsadvisor September 12, 2013 2:18 PM BST
indeed. I think the deals done with tracks smacked of the approach. They could have been a lot better had we been more engaging and open. The view that tracks are bent on our destruction-replacement is a narrow one - I do not concur with
If asked to represent leading bookmakers- I will, and it won't be based on fear of tracks. If we understand their problems and costs- they should understand ours in a frank and friendly negotiation.
ie concert nights- although populous, don't favour bookies and 7 x is unrealistic. How do we get tracks to understand? Share our returns
Report rcing September 12, 2013 2:22 PM BST
geoff , would it not be wise to have professional gamblers on your book and follow them in , or is that a losing move in the long run ?
Report okeydokey September 12, 2013 2:34 PM BST
Geoff, I bought one of your suits in Debenhams the other day. Very good value and workmanship.
Report DUNERUNNER September 12, 2013 2:35 PM BST
rcing

- as I am sure certain off course bookies have "Gold Accounts" for certain owners and trainers, where they can have as much on at the price as they want and as a result the bookies then know the strength in order to follow them in.
Report rcing September 12, 2013 2:40 PM BST
dunerunner ,  i have no doubt that goes on , i was wondering why geoff says "  To do this, I have to weed out the professional gamblers " , and was wondering why ( if he doesn't already ) he uses there info/knowledge to his advantage .
Report Sportsadvisor September 14, 2013 2:14 PM BST
ha, can't find anyone who wants to lay me a bet..
Report frog2 September 14, 2013 9:51 PM BST
Geoff,

thanks for your reply. I agree that horseracing is a risky place to offer prices to the professionals.

As a gambler I can price up all the runners in every race and pick off the value. I wouldnt dream of offering my prices for others to pick off in theory.

But with a decent overround and low fixed limits for everyone on market openning surely the 'professionals' would help you find fair value in the market sooner and thus you would be able to take bigger bets later on. You would be able to smoke out the mistakes earlier.
Report Sportsadvisor September 15, 2013 10:38 AM BST
it's not practical in an industry where there are but a handful of serious layers left. the majors are not interested, leaves few alternatives. your idea ok in theory but not in practice
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