K Fallon

^^^^^

Apart from you are having to go back 10 years for this onlooker (which is a year before his human error c0ck up on Ballinger Ridge btw), that's Fallon's fault how exactly? He was at Brighton anyway for other rides and I'd be very surprised if Fallon organised a gamble and alternative riding arrangements on the horse himself, so if he gets a call from a trainer or even is approached by the trainer face to face at the races and told the declared jockey needs replacing and does he want the ride, is he suppose to hire a private detective there and then to look into things before accepting the ride?

And talking about "oh the irony" it's not that long ago that he was replaced by an apprentice on one of Gay Kellaway's which won, so apparently the default setting for some is it's all Fallon's fault regardless and damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. It seems his biggest "sin" was to actually win the Brighton race, as if he had been beaten then nobody would have given a sh1t either way.

Trainer Mark Wallace insists he would have "no problem" visiting Portman Square to explain the circumstances surrounding the victory of his Hanton at Brighton on Tuesday. The previously-unraced juvenile filly was due to be ridden by apprentice Karl Bowman, but he failed to make it to the track in time, having been stuck in traffic.

Champion jockey Kieren Fallon then stepped in for the mount and a gamble ensued, which was duly landed - by a neck. The local stewards inquired into the late switch and opted to refer the matter to the Jockey Club for further investigation.

"It's pretty simple - he got stuck in traffic. My secretary took the wrong route and there was a snarl up on the M23, a bad accident," Wallace told attheraces.

"Jockeys have to be there 20 minutes beforehand and my young lad wasn't there. I told the clerk of the scales and we looked for another jockey.

"Kieren Fallon was available so I booked him.

"We're speculating on what would have happened if Karl had ridden him, he rides her in all her work at home and she goes all right for him so I was going to let him ride her with the 7lb claim, but in that particular race yesterday he (Fallon) definitely made the difference.

"The situation does look suspicious but I've got no problem in going down to Portman Square to clarify the matter with the stewards and give them the explanation. I've got nothing to hide - I've no problem speaking to anybody about it, it's just one of those things.

"You don't want the jockey you book for your horse not to turn up. The ideal situation is that the jockey you book turns up and if you were willing to use an apprentice in the first place, and the rules were that you then had to use another apprentice, then that would be fine."

Now I don't know about you but I would imagine Karl Bowman was a teenager at the time when claiming those 7lbs, might or might not drive at that age, might or might not have a car but either way I don't think I would leave him to his own devices to get to the course anyway.

Oh and by the way, any chance of providing us with the outcome too onlooker or whether Fallon produced his phone records or not? Since the trainer was claiming Fallon was booked a matter of minutes before the race started and that he was more than happy to provide the authorities with his phone records, my money would be on there being nothing there but then that kind of makes the story a bit of an anticlimax doesn't it?

Any other jockey and it's not even an issue.

^ No need for the ... "other" -

or ... "not even".
-----------------

Any ..... jockey and it's ... .... an issue.

He still had plenty of success after that first Arc win pandora1963 including another Arc win and several classics both here and in Ireland as well as other Gr1s aaround the world.

If you want to see a particular ride, which shows why Fallon is still booked by top stables , then look at his ride on powerscourt in the 2005 arlington million as well as the link given above.

Now i know it was only the arlington million and that powerscourt was the best horse in the race,  but with with regards to my upcoming point it is irrelevant.

If you ever study his riding position in the saddle "when he wakes a horse" up you can quite clearly see that he balances himself perfectly mid air whilst using the horses natural galloping pattern to dissipate his weight and energy , and not well into the saddle like most other jockeys continue to do. What this does is transfers his weight throughout a ride in a certain way which helps the horse switch off and then allows him get more out of horses in a well contested race finish scenario.

If you look very closely at these 2 race videos you will see that fallon bops "up and down" when in a driving finish rather than sitting in the same position as the majority of other jockeys, and to the eye it looks like he is just going flat out urging the horse, now i know that is obvious but there is also another reason on why it works and that is becasue he is self consciously trying to dissipate his weight in a finish at the same time of pushing the horse, and that is why he is statistically the worlds most successful jockey and a genius and you cannot teach that well homed skill, and its something he cannot lose.

Fallons particular gift with racehorses is his hands, any trainer will tell you that he is the worlds best of " switching off" a horse mid race and then waking up a horse at a particular moment using his quite unusual position in the saddle.

If you look at the position in the link given above from the other poster of his win on hurricane run in the 2005 arc you can quite clearly see what i mean .


So to conclude, stop slagging the guy, just celebrate his jockey skills and horsemanship. Anyone who keeps mentioning his court case from years ago needs to have a break as its starting to get a bit tiresome.

Bloody hell even ima wouldn't have written such an OTT eulogy of Fallons riding ability.

wots beckam going to do the rest of his life,ads will soon dry up,u must have a purpose in life.

thanks for the replies, never had that before,
all I meant is that KF did NOT want to win on Macdillon, watch it go in next time.

Felon had good grounding in his early days. Great teachers.

This place just get funnier every day.

The whole field were bunched towards the rail, the eventual first 2 come wide which was where Fallon was making his run anyway, one goes across him and so he pulls around to also go wide and gets a running on 3rd but it's apparently only Fallon who doesn't want to win and the rest other than the first 2 get ignored. 

One of the most talented sportsmen of his generation, unbelievably brilliant on his day.  Fell in with wrong crowd, did the lot on booze, drugs and rotters.  A shame imo.

^ Do you think that 'they' took him there -

- or he 'went back to his roots'?

'No Offers' - the latter.

Fallon is ugly, strength doesnt make a horse man

Jockeys are ten a penny.

All this brilliant ride stuff is bollox.

That sounds a bit like you are saying it's far more about the horses than the jockeys Dr Crippen!

Well - Of course it IS.

kieren minted,rides for fun.

nothing to do with strength, if you don't take time to understand jockeys and horses then you wont understand.

A girlfriend of mine is a work rider in deauville and she explained why Fallon is the best natural race rider of all Jockeys, its how he makes his strength used to maximum effect.

Imagine you are on a swing, , you know when you get to that point where you use your weight just as you are about to rise to get more speed, well that is exactly what fallon does when race riding, you only have to look at him when he starts to wake up a horse.

Its a physics thing , just look at when he rides in some better well contested race, just look at him bop up and down when all other jockeys are pushing forward.

If you want bop up and down and keep the horse running straight as a gun barrel then Pat Eddery is your man, Fallons horses often run all over the shop when he rides a finish, would'nt lace Edderys boots as a horseman.

I'm very good on a swing. I would've made a fortune as a jockey.

To suggest that with only a metal bit and a couple of straps to steer a half ton horse that they always went straight for Eddery or any of jockey for that matter in laughable.

For the bulk of his career the rules basically dictated that you had to take corrective action and straighten your horse when it went off a true line and he will have done that thousands of times during his career, both winning and losing races as a result of having to do so.

Nowadays there's less incentive to correct them as the result in this season's Falmouth has shown.

Imagine you are on a swing, , you know when you get to that point where you use your weight just as you are about to rise to get more speed, well that is exactly what fallon does when race riding, you only have to look at him when he starts to wake up a horse.


Gadzooks, now you've let the cat out of the bag they'll all be doing it.

late90/s early noghties Fallon was without doubt one of the true greats,watching him today is like watching george best play football at 45 for some non league club,he isnt even top 20 material

Got to agree with Silver. 100%

Neither football nor racing are individual sports and without the team element in place you can't do it all by yourself.......just as Frankie is also finding out now but at least Fallon won a couple of Gr1s last season during the rare times he now gets on one capable of winning at that level.

If ever proof were needed that it's far more about the horses than the jockeys then just look at how Frankie's and James Doyle's careers have practically switched status in the game recently, or how "journeymen" jockeys like Havlin, Hamilton, Kirby, Fanning, Norton, Tudhope and others have gone up a level since getting an association with certain yards and/or now getting to ride a few more of their better ones.

Have all of those jockeys improved beyond all recognition recently after years scratching around for rides or could it just be down to riding better quality horses than before?

ima,the only time i fancy fallon to get one home these days is on an odds on shot,a lot of his rides look very dubious to me,even taking intoo account he is nowhere near the jockey he was. Very occasionally you see a special ride from him,but its extremely rare nowadays.

I agree that a lot of his rides look dubious pandora1963 but here's probably where we differ as from my viewpoint they are dubious horses, from yours you seem to be alluding to the rides he gives them are dubious, which seeing as Eddie Ahern has just been banned for 10 years, you do have to wonder how Fallon gets away with it if "a lot of his rides look very dubious" to you..............unless of course there's nothing at all dubious about them really.

How many of his 50 or so winners do you think have been odds-on so far this season too by the way?

not sure,but the ride on coakley's horse at brioghton a cpl of weeks back was the nail in the coffin,he did EVERYTHING to make sure that horse got beat

RozelKid     01 Sep 13 03:37 

nothing to do with strength, if you don't take time to understand jockeys and horses then you wont understand.

A girlfriend of mine is a work rider in deauville and she explained why Fallon is the best natural race rider of all Jockeys, its how he makes his strength used to maximum effect.

Imagine you are on a swing, , you know when you get to that point where you use your weight just as you are about to rise to get more speed, well that is exactly what fallon does when race riding, you only have to look at him when he starts to wake up a horse.

Its a physics thing

-------------------

Never read so much RUBBISH - in all my life.

A SWING is usually either...

BOLTED into a Plate - securely fixed at it's BASE -
- or - [b]CONCRETED similarly into the ground - at it's BASE.

The AXIS - at the TOP of the Swing - upon which the, "WEIGHT," is applied - in order to gain additional momentum ....CANNOT, therefore, MOVE - nor absorb that, "WEIGHT,"  - it usually being made of IRON  - and, consequently, returns the extra Energy/thrust back down the chains to the Swing's seat.... thus increasing your Swing speed.

By CONTRAST - a HORSE has 4 narrow, and fragile, legs - supporting half a ton of body bulk.

As neither those LEGS - nor the horse's BACK - are NOT a 'fixed AXIS' .... Your, "PHYSICS," would imply that the extra Energy being sent by, "BUMPING," - would end up being dissipated ........ 'All over the place'.

Some of the 'extra energy' may well, admittedly, result in a positive reaction from the horse, in some way - BUT, surely, a lot more of that 'extra energy' can/will result in the horse becoming unbalanced.

As the saying goes ....

'They are NOT MACHINES' ................ unlike a SWING IS.

What you mean the one where he had the inside racing line as the whole field came over and Luke Morris cut him up and could have put him over the rail, that one?

Racing Post comments on Fallon's horse that day.

2nd    2¼     Banreenahreenkah (IRE) 2/1     3     9-1      Denis Coakley     65     Kieren Fallon     
Took keen hold, held up in touch in last pair, headway to press leader when squeezed for room over 5f out, ridden and effort over 2f out, went 2nd and hung left just inside final furlong, one pace after (op 3/1)

Sporting Life's comments on Fallon's horse that day.

2nd (1)     2¼     5 Banreenahreenkah (IRE)     D J Coakley     3     9-1     K Fallon     2/1
Held up, headway 6f out, short of room against rail over 4f out, switched right 3f out, not much room and switched right over 1f out, hung left and went 2nd inside final furlong, no impression on winner opened 3/1.

I don't mean to be rude here but maybe it seems pandora1963 at best you aren't seeing things with an open mind so are missing the obvious or at worse your race reading skills need a bit of a brush up.

Even Simon Holt in commentary diplomatically mentioned Morris "closing there door" on Fallon when if Fallon's on the rail where else can he go? He got his horse into a good position to make a challenge to win the race from and then switched and did the same again so two efforts from somebody supposedly not trying seems a bit strange and he was even short of room again so switched again in a race Holt summed up as messy, yet Fallon still beat everything else bar the winner, which wasn't Morris's horse either.

ima,i remember the race well,in the early part of the race he had the PERFECT position,in fact he was leading up the inside rail,then for whatever reason just decided to give it up...

Fallon  similar style to the immortal Sir Gordon Richards on the flat and Fred Winter over jumps each one of them a master at galvanising a tired horse - too many jockeys look pretty but IMO not effective. Fallon I admit has had his problems but many a racing lad down on his luck  has received a helping hand from him.

Fallon is one of the great jockeys and there are not too many of those.

He may have a few problems keeping a lid on himself but stopping horses is just a laughable nonsense.

I'm afraid pandora1963 you maybe don't remember it quite as well as you think and your perception of how you remember it is a little off, because for the first half of the race he held the horse up in stone last and then when they crossed over at the switchback part of the course he moved his mount up to the inner, but never held the lead although was in 2nd to the inner and got a bump from Morris on the way over and then he cut up Fallon once he (Fallon) had his horse positioned on the rail.

There were tyre tracks on the turf and as it was a sunny day the inside rail also cast a shadow on the grass too, which all acted as the perfect guide to show you just how far Morris came over and squeezed up Fallon, as I myself am saying as well as the Racing Post, Sporting Life and Simon Holt during commentary point out so I'd be surprised if we are all wrong.

On an entirely different note, Novellist has won its last 3 races, all of which were Gr1 with 3 different jockeys up, so it really is more about the horses than the jockeys.......but what's with the outbreak of logic and honest commons sense in some of these more recent Fallon posts?

Yes I agree with pandora1963

You’d have to say an experienced jockey was looking for trouble coming up the inside on a left hand turn at that stage of the race.
Worse than that he seemed to be inviting trouble by restraining his mount instead of getting to the front where he wouldn’t get cut up.

It was certainly not the route that a jockey would take when the money’s down.
A very poor ride and that’s being kind.

fallon should still be in jail when he stopped top cee's years ago.

LOL....Specsavers really do need to sponsor this forum as loads of jockeys come over and bag the rail at Brighton, just as Fallon did in this race and although he might never have had a clear lead in the race, he was at the very least upside's the leader before that one then cut him up when never being at least a length in front to be able to bag the rail for himself. Oh and in agreeing with pandora1963 here Dr Crippen means you are disagreeing with the professional race readers from the Post and Life.

Totally agree though about the Top Cees ride and despite supposedly being an apologist for Fallon I have said that was a dodgy ride all along. Having said that (and this is where I'll probably take some stick) he didn't actually stop the horse as in it was going to win and he then took action to prevent that, he just gave it a very easy ride and never put it in contention at any time because that day wasn't the horse's main target.

Not that that makes it OK but Fallon is far from the only jockey to do that and the jails would be full of owners, jockeys and trainers if you put them all away in similar circumstances but he's Fallon so comes in for the special treatment that many of the other jockeys don't.

Top C's run at Newmarket before winning the Chester Cup very controversial at the time Am I correct in remembering  Derek Thompson claiming that Fallon had told him the horse wasn't off. The ones who really had cause to complain were those who backed the horse at Newmarket , hope they got their money back in the Chester Cup.
Totally agree with ima-mazed66  all jockeys and all trainers are guilty of this offence , sometimes it works in a punters favour sometimes it doesn't.It is an old problem - going back some years  one day Neville Crump was told if he didn't stop Teal the horse wouldn't 'be returning to his yard.
The Jockey Arthur Thompson actually jumped off the horse - the pair then. went on to win the Grand National -none triers - like the poor will always be with us

Oh and in agreeing with pandora1963 here Dr Crippen means you are disagreeing with the professional race readers from the Post and Life.

Of course it doesn't mean that.

You're the one who needs glasses, as well as an understanding of what's being written.

Portrack, you talk a lot of sense and with only 14 posts in 11 years, you should post on here a bit more.

You can't have it both ways Dr Crippen, I'm saying very much the same thing as the Post and Life race readers that Fallon did nothing wrong and was squeezed up by Luke Morris when he (Fallon) was on the rail and had nowhere else to go, whereas pandora1963 was suggesting Fallon wasn't trying to win and you agreed with him, the clue to yourself here was when you said such things as "Worse than that he seemed to be inviting trouble by restraining his mount instead of getting to the front where he wouldn’t get cut up" and "It was certainly not the route that a jockey would take when the money’s down" so if the Post and Life are saying:

Racing Post comments on Fallon's horse that day.

2nd    2¼     Banreenahreenkah (IRE) 2/1     3     9-1      Denis Coakley     65     Kieren Fallon     
Took keen hold, held up in touch in last pair, headway to press leader when squeezed for room over 5f out, ridden and effort over 2f out, went 2nd and hung left just inside final furlong, one pace after (op 3/1)

Sporting Life's comments on Fallon's horse that day.

2nd (1)     2¼     5 Banreenahreenkah (IRE)     D J Coakley     3     9-1     K Fallon     2/1
Held up, headway 6f out, short of room against rail over 4f out, switched right 3f out, not much room and switched right over 1f out, hung left and went 2nd inside final furlong, no impression on winner opened 3/1.


Then they are giving their description and reasons as to what happened, which are valid ones that hindered Fallon's chances due to the riding actions of a rival jockey. You on the other hand are putting it down to non-existent Fallon skulduggery, hence you must be disagreeing with the Post and Life race readers......It's really not that complicated honestly.

Fallon was actually upsides the leader when he was cut up and far from restraining his horse but then why let a minor detail such as the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory eh?

ima,if you watch the race,he got to the lead and was in no way cut up,he pulled his horse back,whate ever the racing post says

You on the other hand are putting it down to non-existent Fallon skulduggery, hence you must be disagreeing with the Post and Life race readers...

How breathtakingly naive can you get?

You don't think that either the RacingPost or the Sporting Life would write anything remotely libellous about a jockey's ride after the Top Cees court case.

They've all been gagged.

The fact that Falon carries such a big reputation as a good jockey makes the ride even more suspect.
Cut up on the rails ffs. You’d think he’d never ridden there before.

Hi Paulbu,
Thanks for the vote of confidence  - I seem to remember your quality posts . I got back on the forum when a search engine took me back to the Old Time Jockeys thread  where yourself and GED  were in conversation with Guardamar  -  I know him very well  - we could both write a best seller about 1963.
I had to assure GED that I an not Guardamar  -  I think I convinced him, I was to late to join in the conversation hopefully Guardamar will return..
He was responsible for a lot of the early success enjoyed by Frank Carr -we planned to set up training together in Franks old yard but they wouldn't 'renew the lease and built houses on it.. one of the walls was left intact and when I visited Malton  my old mate Eric Bromilow showed me rings left in the wall where we used to tie the horses up..Quite a moving experience they are all that is left of an historic yard.

Portrack, it's all come back to me now, I think. Weren't you responsible for some enlightening contributions to the 'Piggott Stories' thread about nine years ago on the old forum ? I seem to recall us talking about Brig Robson in Darlington night clubs, Lester Piggott riding for Pat Rohan, being beaten when the money was down and then getting the race on a fanciful objection and such like. Am I right or is my old memory playing tricks on me ?

Well remembered PAULBU -

I would make you probably right on that call.

Thanks, Onlooker. I couldn't be sure because I thought that Portrack had made at least 14 posts in the Piggott Stories thread or does the count only apply to the new forum ?

Paulbu Onlooker
Yes I used to ramble on a bit on the old Piggott thread - nice to be remembered lads. As this is the Fallon thread maybe in Fallons defence I could reprise one of my old posts when Lester Piggott was going around the jockeys fixing a race before the start - I didn't have a ride in that particular race but rode the first winner on the card and watched it happen.
It was arranged that E(Teddy)Carter would be allowed to win the race his mount backed from 8/1 to favourite . Piggotts mount drifting from odds on. Piggott looked like winning but swerved across the course and Lester actually come off. 
So even the great man was fallible -
However before Lester sues me the race in question was a Charity Donkey Derby all the top jockeys were there and  lot of bookies were standing , they made an involuntary contribution to charity through the fixed race.
I think it was that York meeting when our good stayer Childe Harolde won the Yorkshire Cup

PAULBU

no doubt the night club will have been the la bamba, flamingo or worse still the bongo club opposite the old bus station.

ronnie rails
La Bamba and Titos at Stockton - La Bamba burnt down - Tito's was a good club until the Gaming Act forced them to separate the club from the Casino they then could not afford the cabarets and it become a disco.

portrack - I am assuming that you were attached to Bill Dutton's stable -

- and that you were an apprentice with him, therefore, when Childe Harolde won the Yorkshire Cup.

That would/cpould make you either ... T O (7st) - or E B (6st)

You won't be J Brace - because he rode Childe Harolde - but you may be D B (7st 6lb)

I think this is where we basically disagree then pandora1963 because I don't think Fallon ever really got the lead as such, or if he did it was by a minimal distance possibly on the nod and for a minimal amount of time like a stride or two because as far as I can tell he got upsides or "pressed" for the lead. I have watched the race and even pointed out how you can tell he was cut up by using the tyre tracks on the grass and the shadow of the running rail on the grass as a guide......Even if I were to go along and say he pulled his horse back though, isn't that what jockeys tend to do when they are being cut up anyway?

Both the Post and Life rightly say his horse made "headway to press leader when squeezed for room over 5f out" and "short of room against rail over 4f out, switched right 3f out, not much room and switched right over 1f out" so cut up, squeezed up, short of room, call it want you like but it all amounts to the same thing of him being well positioned on the rail upsides the leader before that leader cut him up. The video is on the ATR website, Brighton 20th August the 3:45. Luke Morris gives Fallon a bump on the way to coming across the course, then drifts into/intimates Fallon's horse causing it to spook and jink nearer the rail when he was racing around a horse's width off of it and then finally cuts him up when less than a length clear where the next bend begins.....that's quite a lot of specific detail there to have got wrong if I was wrong.

First of all Dr Crippen, the key reason the Post or Life never flagged up Fallon's ride as dodgy is mainly because it wasn't.

No of course I'm not breathtakingly naive enough to be unaware that journalists have to be careful with what they say in print or even verbally on TV, as these things are so hard to prove (and I've made that very point myself when others on here have called them gutless) but are you naive enough to think they wouldn't use certain phrases to allude to something dodgy, assuming there was anything in it to begin with?

So let's say they thought a horse had deliberately been held up too far off the pace, had been "ridden" half heartedly so as not to have been ridden on its merits to obtain the best possible finishing position. Are you "breathtakingly naive" to be unaware that the use of language such as "ridden WELL off the pace" or "never dangerous or put in a position to challenge" or "tenderly ridden with minimal force but made late headway" would feature in their post-race description, leaving everyone to read between the lines but without the risk of any comebacks to themselves?

So lets see what they did say then? Did they mentioned it being ridden WELL off the pace? No, they said:

"held up in touch in last pair"

Did they say it made no effort until late very on? No, they said:

"headway to press leader when squeezed for room over 5f out" and "Held up, headway 6f out"

Did they say handed with kid gloves and minimal effort and little attempt to challenge? No, they said:

"ridden and effort over 2f out, went 2nd" and "went 2nd inside final furlong"

Did they say it had a trouble-free run during the race? No, they said:

"squeezed for room" and "short of room against rail"

So did none of those things happen then?

And now this one's all my own work, so despite getting cut up/squeezed up/shorted up as far out as 4-5f to go, did Fallon down tools and coast in in his own time, which would have been the perfect excuse to do so after being cut up? No, he switched around runners to try to make another effort to win the race and beat everything else bar the winner, which doesn't to me seem like the actions of a jockey not actually trying to win.

Kieran gallon ain't the go to jockey anymore if you want to land a touch.better up and coming jocks.simples as a lot of you are

*fallon

Onlooker - yes I was with Bill Dutton a gentleman of the old school. One day he was letting me out of the gallop gate we were both mounted I was riding Cleverchange a horse who had went a little crackers . It was thought hacking around with the boss might help. The boss kept his eye on my horse as he let me out Cleverchange could be quite scary and didn't notice Lady Beasley (wife of Pat Beasley) cantering  up .
She thought the boss had shut the gate on her on purpose and told him in colourful language what he was -he just touched his cap and said 'And your a Lady.'
We rode off leaving her behind the gate.
Bill Dutton had a heart attack and died Christmas 1959 he had arranged a party at Bowers restaurant for the lads. Pat Rohan his son - in -law took over .Pat only a young man must have felt a bit like the new Man Utd manager after Fergie , if he does as well as Pat he will be fine..

Sep 3, 2013 -- 1:49AM, chavman wrote:

Kieran gallon ain't the go to jockey anymore if you want to land a touch.better up and coming jocks.simples as a lot of you are

chav, to land a touch now,the horse does not need to win,so you could still go to fallon for it to be unplaced,touch achieved.

Bob I know you know after you being one of the few successful owners on here.are you now thinking of setting up a stud farm

chav, you call people simple's,and you can't spell,as for ownership,RIBBONS has won a few good handicaps,you noticed,and as   regarding me setting up a stud farm,it is in the pipeline ,but don't go shouting it about 

I phone bob. Fan gone on the laptop.what happened to your massive collaboration with elite racing club.were they too small an outfit for your plans of global equine domination

Or do you still think you weren't getting enough for your £50 a year?

private bob 03 Sep 13 08:16 

Sep 3, 2013 -- 1:49AM, chavman wrote:

Kieran gallon ain't the go to jockey anymore if you want to land a touch.better up and coming jocks.simples as a lot of you are

chav, to land a touch now,the horse does not need to win,so you could still go to fallon for it to be unplaced,touch achieved.

More comedy gold here.....So let's think using some logic instead of being overly dramatic and I'm a shady character who wants to book a jockey to get my horse beaten so that I can lay it for bundles on here. I know what I'll do, I won't use a bit of common sense and get a low profile jockey who can do so and sneak it under the radar, I'll go for the highest profile name who was accused (and found innocent btw) of this kind of thing because clearly nobody will be scrutinising his every ride from now on will they? I don't actually think that's what they mean by the expression he's the "go to" man when they are on about jockeys.

Do some of you even stop to think about the nonsense you post up on here before doing so?

Have you got your head round the dead heat thing yet?

I think Falon would feel very insulted if people thought that all his sh!te rides were triers.

He'd probably take you to court for defamation and say he was following instructions.

He seems daft enough.

Yeah cheers for that saddo as I couldn't be arsed to look for it way bout in the threads so will post my response here instead.

Because I don't agree with something, doesn't actually mean I don't understand it and I know full well that a 2/1 shot in theory has a 33.3% chance of winning and as in the 10/1 example I gave, has a 9.1% chance but if I have £10 on a horse and it wins then I want my whole £10 going on it and my whole £10 stake returned if it wins, dead heat or otherwise, not only a fiver if it dead heats. If I wanted a fiver on I'd have staked a fiver, so don't halve my stakes, halve my odds to 5/1 which I know isn't actually 5/1 as a percentage probability of winning and is 16.7% but let bookies offer me a concession on this seeing it's such a small amount and dead heats are so rare anyway, as opposed to saying if I back a horse that finishes 2nd and has it's mane plaited, is a chestnut with 4 white socks, the jockey had Coco Pops for breakfast and got his end away the night before then they will refund me 20% of my losses or whatever.

I also know full well why I can back EW in a 16 runner handicap and get 4th place but back in a 26 runner non-handicap and not get 4th place but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it and that it doesn't need looking at, which was all I ever said said in the DH example anyway.

anytimeatall.

That didn't win did it? Surely not considering so many shrewdies on here have been telling us Fallon is **** and gone at the game......So just the 50 winners for the season so far then.

Ima Mug, i don't recall anyone saying that Fallon would never ride a winner again. Most of us know he's nowhere near as good as he was 10 years ago. You continue to argue otherwise when the evidence is right in front of your eyes.

Blimey a whole 50 winners this season? A decent end to the season and he might even catch Graham Gibbons in the jockeys table.

He rode 154 just 2 years ago btw.

Maybe he'll have a spectacular end to the season and not only catch Graham Gibbons but beat that total as well

hes one of the very few jocks to ride more than 200 winners in a season more than once,now he struggled to make 50

Erm you do realise asourpuss that when you say Ima Mug that's putting it in the first person don't you? HTH

I argue that Fallon is good enough if the horse is good enough and this winner proves my point, along with the other 49 times this season too.....Or maybe it was just coincidence that it was a favourite with a favourite's chance of winning and then funnily enough it er, won.

I think I'm beginning to understand why the word "seething" is so often used on here now.

shyte =hanagan.

So what does the 350 losers he's ridden proven then?

Or his 12% strike rate which is lower than 20 of the jockeys ahead of him in the jockeys table and equal to 2.

Or his 31% strike rate on favourites which again is lower than 20 of the jockeys ahead of him in the jockeys table.

*prove*

Well first of all Marcee the season isn't over yet so you are a little premature with your mocking of 50 winners and I'm sure you know it's never good for a bloke to be premature. Secondly I'd be happy to take your money off you that more jockeys don't ride 50 winners this season than do. Thirdly is maybe helps if you compare like with like and 2 season's ago Fallon signed up with an agent with the intention of going for the jockey title, the clue was the 901 rides he had that season compared to the 405 he's had t the start of today. People's priorities change which explains why 2those same 2 seasons ago Hanagan rode 165 winner compared to 75 now and De Sousa rode 161 but is on 104. Feel free to ask me to break these kind of things down into bite sized pieces and spoon feed them to you at any time as I'm always willing to help those less about to work these things out for themselves.

Oh and how unfortunate for you to pick Graham Gibbons considering he's on 56 winners from 342 rides for the season and at a strike rate of 16% so far with several weeks to go, compared to 52 from 465 and a 11% SR for the whole of last season and is probably on course to have his best season ever.....Oops.

He's wound things down pandora1963 which you would expect now that he's not going for titles any more and the seasons he rode 200 odd winners he would have had something like close to 1,000 rides and I'm not sure I would say he has "struggled" for 50 winners if he has hit that mark with still a good few weeks of the season left.

ima sorry to ask this question but it's not fair to debate things with people if they're not right but you are all there aren't you?

There's 2 months left of the season and evening racing is practically finished. How many more winners do you think he's going to ride? Another 104?

Hanagan doesn't ride as many winners because he's moved from up north where Fahey was giving him a bucketload of winners to down south where he's committed to riding Hamdan horses. Similarly De Sousa is now committed to Godolphin when he wasn't 2 years ago. It's got nothing to do with priorities. Do you seriously believe Fallon isn't interested in the jockeys title if he could get the rides he needed to compete for it?

And how the hell is it unfortunate to compare him to Graham Gibbons? Far more unfortunate to make an argument about people's priorities changing in one breath and then using stats from last season to supposedly back up your argument in the next breath I'd say.

Are you seriously questioning if I'm all there Marcee when you come out with a classic such as "So what does the 350 losers he's ridden proven then?" Just how small a bite size do you need these things broken down to?

This season Hughes has ridden over 700 losers, Moore almost 650 so does that mean Fallon is better than the pair of them because he has ridden fewer losers? How many more times do I have to say it's far more about the horses than the jockeys, so if Fallon isn't riding the same quality of horse as he used to or that the likes of Hughes and Moore are still riding, then there's a very good chance his strike rate percentage will be down now.

I don't know how many winners Fallon will ride between now and the end of the season but I don't have to know as I wasn't the one mocking his numbers, I think you will find that was you. All I was saying was that he went through the 50 winners mark which is reporting a fact and not giving an opinion and I merely questioned that with 2 months or whatever left of the season remaining, I think it's a bit of a stretch to say he struggled to hit that mark. If I had to guess his final total though I would say maybe somewhere around the 80 mark barring injury or suspension. I think I also heard something (unless I'm just making this up) that he is doing his training courses and so has been missing Monday meetings during this season.

Please don't tell me you actually thought I was unaware of the recent changes in De Sousa's and Hanagan's careers? I know full well where they rode and for which trainers but if they were both going all out for the jockey title 2 years ago (just as Fallon was) then I would say that was their main priority at that time, wouldn't you? If they then take the Maktoum jobs they will have been well aware that it was realistically title chances over for them but they would be riding in a lot better class of race on a more regular basis, hence the change of priority. Like I keep saying, it really isn't that complicated.

If Fallon couldn't win the title 2 years ago where really going for it then he will have been realistic enough to know he was never going to win it again and so scaled down things after that, which is why least season he only had 619 rides compared to 901 in the title effort season. Of course a certain owner not wanting him on his horses isn't going to help his numbers but that same owner has had all of 14 winners this season and Fallon has been on some of those anyway, so the decision to give up chasing winners up and down the country was made by Fallon himself long ago and he even parted with his agent after that title chasing season effort too.

Am I having to break down into smaller pieces your very own comment now too as well as my own? It's unfortunate to compared Fallon to Gibbons because you did so in a mocking way to not only try to belittle Gibbons but also Fallon too by association. I've just pointed out that you could have picked a better example since belittling and mocking was clearly your intention yet you chose a jockey probably about to have his best season ever when attempting to do so.

Bloody hell Ima....

marcce,top 12 money earner,minted.

There's nothing wrong with his riding he's as good as ever.

Would you risk putting him up on a horse that you'd got ready to win?

I don't see why not and Brain Meehan and James Fanshawe didn't seem to have any problems when he won Gr1s for them last season, nor William Haggas the season before when he won a classic for him the season before, nor Aidan O'Brien and Tom Dascombe when he was narrowly beaten in 2nd in classics for them too.

I'll make this really simple for you ima. You came on here absolutely bursting to gleefully tell us that this one winner proved your point about Fallon being good enough if the horse was. It was you who posted just the 50 winners so far then as if that was meant to impress everyone.

It's absolutely fine if you believe one ride completely vindicates your argument but if your barometer is going to be one ride then you have to accept it's also perfectly valid for people to use one ride to claim that he's useless. Personally I think the 350 losing rides provides a greater sample size to form an opinion that his level has fallen from where it used to be.

It was also you who called me premature about the number of winners he's ridden suggesting you believe he'll ride a lot more. You've now given a figure of 80. Given he's ridden 50 in just short of 6 months including 4 months of evening racing I think it's highly optimistic to believe he'll ride another 30 in 2 months but it's your opinion. The likelihood is that he'll struggle to finish in the top 20 this year and to hit 70 winners.

As for Fallon scaling things down his intention at the start of last season was to go for it. He was quoted at 7/2 to be champion jockey at the start of the 2012 season. Rather than him making any decision to not go for it the decision was somewhat made for him when more and more trainers started looking elsewhere.

The difference between Hanagan and De Sousa compared to Fallon is that whilst their number of winners have decreased their strike rates haven't. Hanagan's has remained at 15% for the last 3 seasons whilst De Sousa's has gone from 16% to 15% and up to 20% this season. That's despite the fact they've arguably gone up a level in the kind of competition they regularly face now compared to a couple of years ago. Fallon's has gone from 16%-14%-12%. Whilst the quality of horses he's riding may have fallen the number of favourites he rides compares very well to other jockeys with a similar number of mounts. He may often be riding in lower classes of races than he's used to but there's nothing to suggest he's getting on loads of unfancied horses in those races.

Rather than mocking Graham Gibbons I was pointing out to you that in 2 years Fallon has gone from challenging for the jockeys title to competing to get in the top 20. Do you think he's satisfied with that? Even in that Guardian interview the other week he was talking about things he can do to improve and more importantly rediscover some sharpness. He knows he's not riding at the same level he used to, I know it, most on here know it but you still seem unable to accept it.

Don't worry about attempting to make things simple for me Marcee, save that for yourself as I'm fine here and not as needy as you on that score.

Nobody said the 50 winners was supposed to impress anyone but with the amount of negative comments I've read from other posters regarding Fallon this season you would think he was still in single figures for winners rather than actually having hit a key figure like 50 with still a good part of the season to go.......And how exactly is it one ride anyway if there were 49 others winners included in that total?

I'm still a little confused as to why you are going on about 350 losing rides as are you seriously expecting any jockey never mind Fallon to ride more winners that losers during a season? I've already pointed out Hughes is currently on around 570 losers for this season so your point there is a nonsense one. Do you think when Fallon was winning the title he was riding more winners than loser?

Where have I suggested Fallon would ride and I quote you here "a lot more" winners from now until the end of the season? I'm happy to help explain your own confused points to you but I don't see why I should have to explain points you attribute to me that I haven't actually made. I made no mention of "a lot more" winners, I just said the season isn't over yet so there's a very good chance that he will ride some more isn't there? Unless you can tell me now exactly how many winners he ends up with then you are being a little premature. The 80 was pure guesswork and I have no idea what his final figure will be and I said as much too.

I don't know how many winners Fallon will ride between now and the end of the season but I don't have to know as I wasn't the one mocking his numbers...

If I had to guess his final total though I would say maybe somewhere around the 80 mark barring injury or suspension

I actually don't have to guess anyway but I didn't even state 80 either.

What part of De Sousa and Hanagan are riding generally better quality horses today than Fallon is didn't you quite understand the first few times I have suggested it? Hanagan has still ridden 15 winners and had 110 rides for Fahey despite not even being stable jockey now and rides for a number of decent yards like Ed Dunlop, Gosden, Haggas, Hannon, Hills and Varian on the Hamdan horses. The same with De Sousa for both Godolphin yards and Johnston. All jockeys take poor spare rides during the season but the ones with a decent job behind them limit this situation or pick them up at a meeting because they are there to ride decent horses. If you rarely ride decent ones so that a higher ratio of your mounts are poor of ability then it's really not that great a shock if your win to rides ratio is down too.

I happen to think Tom Eaves is not too shabby a jockey but this season so far he's only on 41 winners from 533 rides at a SR of under 8%. Now it could be a case of he's a far far worse jockey than Fallon or then again it's more likely to be that he's generally riding a poorer standard of horse a further level down compared to Fallon and to what he himself has ridden in previous seasons. Some of this will probably be explained due to not getting on as many Stoute alternative meeting runners as he has done in the past, the same with getting fewer Kevin Ryan mounts now that Callan, Makin and Spencer are getting on more of them as well as Graham Lee too and also Bryan Smart has gone a bit quiet and Eaves used to do well on his 2YOs.

Statistics of horses jockeys ride being favourites only tell you so much and being on the fav in a seller or a competitive handicap isn't quite the same as being on a fav in a Gr1 race so looking at the bare numbers and percentages there tell you very little of note.

Forgive me then if you weren't actually mocking Graham Gibbons and how silly of me to think that from your following use of language and smiley:

Marcce 03 Sep 13 16:49 
Blimey a whole 50 winners this season? A decent end to the season and he might even catch Graham Gibbons in the jockeys table.

He rode 154 just 2 years ago btw.

Maybe he'll have a spectacular end to the season and not only catch Graham Gibbons but beat that total as well.

Oh and when you want this smiley to appear in your post it does so under the code for want on a batter word of "laugh.".....Can't think why I would see that as mocking though eh? And yes I know what you meant regarding beating which total but I'm suggesting you were mocking Gibbons and by association Fallon too.

ima_mazed66   

Perhaps those few big race winners weren’t expected? And anyway in those sorts of races the jockeys gets a good cut of the prize money for winning themselves.   

It's not the decent rides he gives that we're talking about anyway.

The fact remains that he isn't getting the quality rides that a jockey of his calibre should be getting.

Which speaks for itself.

Every jockey reaches a state of natural decline where trainers put up someone younger and on an upward curve.

Like me Stoute doesn't think Fallon stops horses and if a trainer of his standing hires Fallon on a regular basis its very obvious to me that a lot of opinion saying otherwise is complete bollox.
A wild boy ? yes, unreliable and can't get out of bed ? yes, as good as he once was ? no.

Even Willoghby is right on Fallon, unquestionably a truely great jockey but with a self destruct button but a Jockey that pulls horses for a few quid ? never ever.

Perhaps Stoute read him the riot act?

The fact remains that Stoute's owners had him stood down.

Moondan has a point when Dick Hern stood Joe Mercer down in favour of Willie Carson he got a lot of  flak and Hern said he was looking at the next ten years - Joe Mercer went on and had success with Henry Cecil and still a top jockey but on a downward curve - Fallon in a similar position

Dr Crippen,

I do know that many owners have felt let down by Fallon because he has failed to turn up to work the horse and at times used the stuck in traffic excuse and not made the track.
For many mud sticks whether its true or not and some trainers such as Sir Mark Prescott with his military style agenda does all he can to do Fallon down with owners and other trainers alike.
The fact remains Fallon has many fans amongst the racing fraternity but does not hold back to those who he thinks are overbearing and too uppity for their own good.
He lost his job at Ballydoyle not because of a fear of cheating but because of double booking and the constant attendance of controversy.
His standing as a decent human being has never been in question from those that know the man, nor has his extremely high standing as a jockey of very rare ability.

I'm not sure what you are suggesting about those big race unexpected wins Dr Crippen, unless it's that Fallon doesn't pull in the big races and only does in 2 bob races on the AW at Lingfield for example, but I really hope you aren't saying that because I'd be cringing here a little on your behalf. Just to remind you though in case you have forgotten, he was adjudged to have no case to answer over Ballinger Ridge and the case was laughed out of court. Either way though he still won those big races, which only goes to support my claim all long that if the horse is good enough then so is Fallon.

He might well be 48 now but I would be willing to bet he is still one of the fittest and strongest jockeys in the weighing room and the fact that he is often the first to start pushing and the last to reach for the stick also supports this. I have seen him win races where he's been pushing away for 50% of the distance and that style of riding is obviously more demanding fitness wise than cruising upsides hands and heels and then going away with a one shake of the reins.

I've never denied he's flawed as an human being but he does also have some good traits on that score too and helped many a colleague (usually the younger ones) but all I have ever argued is give him the horse and he can still get the job done. If he or any of them for that matter don't have the horse then he can't run the race for the horse so there's only so much he can do ability wise himself.

As far as I am aware Fallon was stable jockey to Stoute and not any owner he had there so it's an owner's prerogative to use another jockey of they want to and Maktoum Al Maktoum and Saeed Suhail did that. I believe they both had the same racing manager at the time too. Fallon won the Matron Stakes, the Windor Forest race at RA and the Nassua Stakes at Goodwood on Favourable Terms and the Dubai Sheema Classic on Fantastic Light and won Goodwood's Celebration Mile on No Excuse Needed all for Maktoum Al Maktoum and won the 2000gns on King's Best, the Derby on Kris Kin, the Craven on King of Happiness and the Dante on Dilshaan all for Saeed Suhail, as well as several other lower level but still significant races for both owners so if that's supposed to represent failure then I'd take that from any jockey of mine no problem.

It seems the reason Fallon was elbowed by Saeed Suhail was because the owner had gone to Goodwood to see his horse Gallant Boy run (a dog by the way) and he was disappointed when it was beaten. It was made 7/4f despite being a maiden still after 3 runs and was now in a 0-105 competitive 14 runner Class B handicap up against several previous winners, with rivals from yards like Ian Balding, Michael Jarvis, Clive Brittain, Paul Cole, Amanda Perrett and 2 each from Hannon and Johnston at an elite course, yet running at an extended trip in only its 4th ever race at a distance it had never even tried before. This next part is classic though, the owner sold the horse after that Goodwood run anyway and it went to Davis Evans and ran back in a Class D Maiden at Wolverhampton's AW track and was beaten again before winning another Class D Maiden at Wolves/AW track next time out.....So he gets rid of the jockey and the horse at the same time!

The horse ended its career with all of 6 wins from 65 starts and would regularly go on long losing runs in between those wins. I'm almost sure too that both owners were made to look a bit silly when some of these horses Fallon was jocked off of ultimately went on to prove disappointing and they ended up having him back on theirs in future rides. A similar thing is happening now with one of the other Maktoum family where bar Afsare (another with problems) the rest haven't exactly been setting the world alight under other riders and even Afsare had to be dropped in both trip and class to win again but I suspect it will end up exposed as not good enough when back up to Gr1 level again.....Why do I just know that last bit is being stored for potential later use by some?

He lost his job at Ballydoyle after the failed drug test so I'm not sure where this double booking thing has come from as I'm sure he moved over to Ireland for that job and he had a retainer with Ballydoyle anyway, so wouldn't have been allowed to choose another yard's horse over theirs unless they said so and who would want to anyway?

ima I'm bored with all this to be honest.

I'll be clear about this again. You came on here yesterday and posted that one winner proved that if the horse was good enough then so was Fallon. It didn't prove anything at all other than he rode a winner. You wanted us all to believe that one winner proved that he is as good as ever. My point about the 350 losers, and please get this into your head this time, gives a far greater sample size for people with an alternative view to choose rides to prove their argument about him. The number of losers Hughes and Moore ride have nothing to do with this. The whole point is you wanted to go overboard about one Fallon winner.

Your problem is that you have become so entrenched with your view that you're reduced to rushing to triumphantly post that your argument has been vindicated just because he has one winner. As far as I'm concerned he's not as good as he was but I don't have to rush on here and post that my view has been proved every time he rides a bad race. I've made a few general posts in the past about him not being as good as he was but I'm pretty sure Saturday was the first time I've posted about a specific ride of his. That of course is contrary to you who feels compelled to write multi million word essays to tell us all why he hasn't ridden a bad race whenever anyone on here dares to question him.

Another thing to get into your head about Hanagan and De Souza. Yes they are now riding better quality horses but in races against a lot more quality horses than they used to up north and also against more of the top jockeys day to day than they would have done. Putting it simply they are generally riding against a higher standard of competition. On the flip side Fallon is generally riding at a lower standard of competition. For example whilst most of the top jocks were at Goodwood yesterday he was at Leicester. Now if you're correct and he's as good as ever shouldn't he be thriving at that lower level? Quite obviously he's going to find it hard to win Group races but he appears to be riding enough horses with decent chances in the bread and butter stuff.

Have it your way about Graham Gibbons. The only mocking was of you with your "that's only the 50 winners" comment, again as if that was meant to prove you're right. It's a figure that isn't even good enough to get him in the top 20 when he hasn't been out of the top 10 in donkey's years. Though hey, he's as good as ever really isn't he See there's another laugh for you.

Now as you've bored me to death I'm out of this.

You've put the argument very well there Marcce.

Oh right Marcee, so the er, winner that er, won yesterday didn't prove that the horse was good enough to er, win......OK right, got that.

So now you feel comfortable enough to tell me exactly what my point was do you? That takes some size of ego to do that but that wasn't my point anyway what you are wrongly claiming and I certainly didn't go "overboard" as that's just your spin on it once again, so I'll say it for you here again as I'm a fairly patient kind of bloke.

If the horse is good enough to win the race then so is Fallon. Yesterday's horse was good enough, as was Fallon and so it won. His ride today in the 3:20 at Lingfield wasn't good enough so it didn't win, unless you think it's Fallon's fault that his horse only finished 2nd there? Like I keep repeating to you Marcee, it really isn't that complicated.

The 50 winner mark as I could have sworn I have already mentioned was just pointing out that it's a key figure and the likes of Barzelona is on 52 with both Godolphin's yards behind him (albeit not exclusively) Queally's on 57 with the Cecil horses, Doyle is on 60 with Abdullah/Charlton and Spencer is on 64 winners with Pearl and Qatar behind him, so not exactly streaking away from Fallon are they yet are they all gone at the game too?

Of course the number of losers Hughes and Moore rides is significant because ALL jockeys ride more losers than winners in a season so it's a total nonsense to point that out regarding the number of losers Fallon has ridden, otherwise you would have posters coming on saying Hughes is sh1t because he rode 662 losers last season and whilst the figure might be true, he also rode 172 winners and ended up champion so if he was adjudged to be sh1t based on his number of losing rides then what does that say about the rest?

So do you think in general a jockey has to earn his fee more when riding a well bred and/or expensive Arab owned runner or a claimer on the AW at Southwell? The job as a jockey should actually be easier riding in the higher class races as the horse's ability means more can be left to the it before the jockey has to do his bit and yes the rivals might well be of an overall higher standard, but even at the top level they only have a very small number of serious rivals in a race, compared to the dog eat dog, survival of the fittest and competitive nature at the lower end of the scale. I'm sure if you asked Fallon which he found easier, riding for the like of Jimmy Fitzgerald, Eric Alston and others around the northern gaff tracks o mainly average to poor horses or in top class races on top notch horses for the likes of Cecil, Stoute and O'Brien then I think we can both guess his answer.

Didn't he ride a winner at Leicester then yesterday? As for thriving at the lower level, once again I ask what part of it's more about the horse than the jockey didn't you understand? Even at the lower level there are still some horses better than others and their OR and/or SP act as a good indication of their ability. His rides yesterday were on a horses rated 67 in a 0-75 handicap and was 3rd at 11/1 with 5 of the 9 higher rated and 5 a shorter price. He had another end up 4th rated 58 in a 0-60 handicap with 4 rated higher and at 7/1 was 4th in the betting and then lo and behold when he got on a favourite he won on it.

Again I will ask what part of scaling down didn't you quite understand? The year he went for the title he had 145 winners from 901 rides, then after accepting he couldn't chase the title last season he had 619 rides, so would it really shock you if I were tell you that with around 300 fewer rides he didn't beat that title chasing total? Or what about if I told you this season he's only had 408 rides so far, would it astound you to discover he hasn't beaten last season total so far? Please tell me you already understand these things and are just hoping I don't, so that you can sneak in more meaningless points.

Evidently I've bored you to death so much that but you can't help yourself from keep coming back! Have you ever noticed the lack of self awareness (no or course you haven't) when people get in a debate with someone else and then resort to the essay claims and being bored by the other person when they are just as guilty of that themselves?

Oh the irony (which aren't pills you take with your vitamins btw) so see you back again with your next reply eh?

he was adjudged to have no case to answer over Ballinger Ridge

Same with Top Cees, yet everybody knows it wasn't sent to win in the race that the court case was about.

It's very difficult to prove that a horse hasn't been run on it's merits because it's all to do with judgement. Any decent barrister can introduce enough doubt over that, to guarantee that jockeys can continue to pull the wool over the eyes of naive people with impunity.

Perfectly valid point Dr Crippen and I agree that the Top Cees ride was iffy but the Ballinger Ridge one wasn't and was just a human error. There's also a big difference between not being able to prove something in court and so returning a not guilty verdict and being laughed out of court and having the judge dismiss the case as a waste of time and taxpayers' money without it even reaching a verdict.

It does seem odd though that everyone else had the case dismissed against them by association since it was labelled the Fallon case, yet the BHA pursued everyone else and some were either warned off or even admitted their guilt. Fallon' situation was a failed sting by the News of the World (whatever happened to that fine upstanding newspaper?) that died a death because he constantly refused to take the bait but then made the c0ck up on Ballinger Ridge and they thought Christmas had come early.

The other cases were against a previously banned owner laying some of his own horses and others with connections to him like Fergal Lynch (he even admitted stopping one) Darren Williams and Karl Burke who were his jockes and trainer and all have all been banned as well as that owner being waned off again. Fallon had no connection with the owner, his horses or the Burke yard.

Fallon rode for Jimmy Fitzgerald and the Ramsdens so that would suggest he's stopped scores of horses down the years.

If you ride for those two you can turn it into an art form.

silvergreaser i trained greyhounds for over 30 years and had a reputation for being a good trainer
won plenty of finals  got money from the game and  trained loads of losers.
Was this an art form?
ps not one stewards enquiry

Ronnie Rails, sorry for the delayed reply but I'm currently in France and have just managed to log onto Betfair by some fluke. I was in La Bamba the night burnt down, it was early August 1968 on a Monday night, supposedly 'young person's night'. I've never heard of the Bongo Club.

Portrack, good to have you around again, keep those 'insider' stories coming.

Did he stop Prince Bishop by any chance OP and it accidentally won?

I think he must have done Ima or perhaps he just rode the winner rather better than the jockey did on the second........which of course he had won on last time out.

He must have cost those dodgy folk he's supposed to be stopping these horses for a fortune then eh Lairy Mary?

Unless of course that's just a figment of the imagination for some on here and I think I prefer your other explanation instead.

minted,dusty bin a big fan.

Paulbu
Hope  you are enjoying your French holiday - I knew the La  Bamba well - watched Tom Jones there