Pro Punting what it takes

People that can win at punting are those that can get on...


Simple...

Sick to death of opening accounts in the names of alleged family and friends and constantly having to provide ID and being in contact with companies that do not want to pay out winners...

Was talking to a BBC TV big shot producer after a funeral (pissed) and he reckons there may be an expose in the offering...

I have offered to be the front man  but unfortunately I may only have a Radio face....

Knowing how to handle a winning run is as important as knowing how to handle a losing run.

Stick to the plan, keep to the same rythm of decision making and remember even a small deviation of greed will undo all that good work.

Run it like a business and remember there is always tomorrow.

Knowing how to handle a winning run is as important as knowing how to handle a losing run.

Fook me A G I agree with you totally . . . Be a good winner as well as a good loser.

Basically don`t get too carried away when you hit a winnimg streak, getting carried away by upping the stakes because you are showing good profit for the day is probably THE biggest mistake we have all made...and then once your profit starts dwindling the URGE starts building and it`s a slippery slope chasing these winnings which were there 5 mins ago.

Knowing when to give it a rest is often overlooked.
This time of year is murder, 7 meetings a day, cricket - luckily in this time zone, golf every weekend, darts, snooker, football season just round the corner.
Agree with what the lads were saying about early BF, alot more relaxed, felt like it was more of a level playing field (!), was a few quid in the markets that wasn't either bot or arb driven. Used to be some characters on here too.

Pro's never lose!

Jul 26, 2013 -- 5:08PM, duffy wrote:

The loved ones is a good point, because even if you do alright from the game, you can't replace the lost time and attention they have suffered, to my eternal shame I have to admit there is/have been far too many occasions where I have packed my boy off to his playstation for the afternoon when really I should be over the park with him for a kick around with the ball...this brings me back to the addiction point

i read a quote somewhere from a premiership manager 'who said he cried at his daughters wedding because he realised he missed the whole of his daughters upbringing as his 'job' took over his whole life that excluded everything else except his job ' a pro punter will be in the same situation if you have a family life its not  going to be easy, but otherwise it then becomes you and the .........

Anybody here know Patrick (Paddy) Willmott, made a fortune out of it. Had about twenty  in training with trainers in UK and Ireland and pulled off a huge touch in Cambridgeshire last September with  a horse called Domination. Three months after that, at Christmas, I was told things weren't going so well for him and sadly now I notice he has very few runners. If someone like Paddy comes unstuck it shows what a dangerous game this is even for the top pro's.
Angel Gabriels advise below about minding the winnings and sticking to the tried and trusted is excellent advise. Don't grt lazy in your research and allways put in the hard graft in analysing your races. Rushing bets are a recipe for disaster in the long run.

Just my view.

Discipline is the most important , followed by decent stake.
If you have these , loses followed by "tilt" are reduced , and "tilt" is the absolute scourge of punters.

I concluded over 10 years ago that winning by punting was not possible as there were insufficient opportunities, and Laying is the only option for me.
At least 50 possibilities per day, across all sports.

Pressure would be a major problem for many:
(1) to win to pay bills , thus affecting judgement
(2) to fulfil other commitments, thus leaving insufficient time to make considered selections.

Thus not too many punters do not have these pressures.

I have monthly /annual targets, and use excel spreadsheets to monitor my performance.
When I have the odd disaster, I go back to a previous blip and see how many bets it took to retrieve the situation.
This calms me down and shows I did it before so now do it again.
It works for me.

The old adage - you only get out of it what you are prepared to put in.
Nothing comes easily.

Now 65, and have learned quite a lot.
Still go racing, not to bet but to renew old acquaintances, see the horses, take in the fresh air, and get away from the laptop when possible.

joshua tree 

Why do you think Dave Nev stopped being a pro punter ?

Do you think it was because he was winning a lot of money or losing a lot of money ?

He thought he was better than he was.

Got big headed and done his money.

There was no need for him to slag people off in his book.

Some interesting quotes I've dug out from the Classic Horse Racing Quotes Book ....

"Obsessive workaholics with nerves of steel who can walk away after a major loss" ... Daily Star Racing Editor Tony Lewis


" The most successful gamblers are the ones that are able to go racing for two or three days and not have a bet" ... John Gosden

"Sometimes I think there are punters who have either got an awful lot of money or who have taken a grudge against the money they have got,but I'm not there to look after them - as long as the money's not mine I couldn't care less.Sometimes I see horses of mine going off shorter than they should because someone has put two and two together and come up with all kinds of figures" ... David Barron

" I decided I'd have two grand on.I woke up the night before with sweat pouring off me.I dreamt he'd got beat.I thought I'd halve my bet.When I woke up again I decided I was off my head betting a grand,I'd have £500 instead.At the races I heard various trainers fancied their horses.I ended up betting fifty quid and he won by 30 lengths.That's how bad a punter I am" ... Mich Easterby talking about 1976 Royal Ascot winner Lochnager

"Anyone who can't take tough luck doesn't or shouldn't bet" ... Tony Morris

" Horse Racing is a world inhabited by monumentally insular people,loath to talk to someone outside their environment,still less listen to them" ... Will Buckley

"I think it's awful.The way they tear round those tight bends and go like hell,it seems no different from dog racing to me " ... Jeremy Tree on All Weather Racing

"Bet enough to hurt but not to do damage,and never less and never more" ... Mark Coton

Some good posts here,and a lot of long time members of betfair posting,which is great,as their experience is worth reading.

Someone here last year stated £14 a day profit equates to 50K over 10 years!! How easy is that?? Well maybe it is and maybe it isn't.

Horse racing VDW stated.... what is form,and many punters can not answer that question,VDW said form is defined as one performance being better than another.

How did he measure that,it is another question usually answered incorrectly.It is pointless betting on horses unless one fully understands what form is.

PADDY WILMOTT is a well-known name in Irish racing circles and the colours carried by his string of 20 horses are familiar too, but the professional punter likes to keep as low a profile as he can. That befits his profession, although any punter who spots him at the races should take note.

"I generally go racing only if I have one of my own running and he's fancied," says Wilmott, whose horses are a key part of his betting strategy. He will wager EUR15,000 when he really fancies one.

Wilmott looks certain to be strongly represented at the festival this year, with Grade 1 winner Jumbo Rio set to spearhead a team that may also include the Grade 2-winning juvenile Sailors Warn.

Up to now, Wilmott has had more luck punting other people's horses at Cheltenham than he has had as an owner. Two years ago, his heavily backed Alexander Severus looked to have the Fred Winter Juvenile Handicap Hurdle at his mercy before fading into fourth, never to run again after suffering a fatal injury that year.

A year on and Pittoni represented him in the Triumph Hurdle. Sent off at 9-1, he was beaten the guts of 40 lengths by Soldatino. Capellanus was supposed to take his chance in the Fred Winter but was pulled out injured shortly before the race. Jumbo Rio, who won the Grade 1 Champion Four Year Old Hurdle at the 2009 Punchestown festival, has finished down the field on both visits to the big one at Cheltenham.

Wilmott has been a lucky owner in general. Over the past four National Hunt campaigns in Ireland his runners have won 20 per cent of their races - a strike-rate that would be the envy of any owner.

Gambling is what sustains him. Having started betting casually before he left school, he was a professional punter in his teens and, a quarter of a century later, he still loves the game.

When he started in the 1980s there was little talk of money-back offers or betting exchanges. "At that stage the betting shops weren't even open on Sundays," he says. "I remember really fancying a horse at Phoenix Park one Sunday but overdoing it on the Saturday night, missing the train and being unable to back him."

Nowadays, his office in County Limerick is his trading room, his wife Margaret and their two children long accustomed to his daily routine.

"I get up at eight, study the Racing Post and pick out three or four races I'm interested in - you can't get an edge in them all. If I don't have a bet, that wouldn't bother me," he says.

Wilmott pays people to place bets for him in the shops and at the tracks in Britain and Ireland. "London can be pretty good to get a bet on, but it can be difficult in Ireland. Paddy Power and Ladbrokes are the best, but the independents are on the way out - it's hard for them to compete."

As for his horses, Wilmott has had consistent success with young hurdlers bought off the Flat.

"Jumbo Rio and Sailors Warn would have had similar profiles: off the same trainer, both had proven form over a mile and a half and they had shown they could take their racing well. I wouldn't touch milers and I like threeyear-olds who handle an ease. Also, it's better to buy from trainers where there might be a bit of scope for improvement as a hurdler."

Sailors Warn has proved another canny purchase. He was somewhat disappointing in his first two runs over hurdles but bolted up in Grade 2 company at Leopardstown over Christmas, tentatively entering the Triumph Hurdle picture.

"I'm just not sure about that form, so how he does at Saturday's rescheduled Hennessy meeting will tell us more," says Wilmott, ever matter-of-fact. "The drier ground will help him and if he runs well we'll think about the Triumph. He'd probably have too much weight for the Fred Winter."

THE opposite might be a problem for Charles Byrnes, with whom Wilmott has enjoyed considerable success, as he maps out plans for Domination, a recruit from Hughie Morrison's yard who has shaped with promise in deep-ground hurdle runs.

"Domination could run at the Red Mills Trials meeting at Gowran," says the owner. "The ground at Cheltenham would suit him and if he gets a mark high enough for the Fred Winter that would be a possibility."

Jumbo Rio may be considered for the Coral Cup, while Pittoni - another successful recruit off the Flat - is close to a return. Wilmott's account of Pittoni's last run emphasises the discipline needed to make it as a professional gambler.

"I had a good each-way bet on Pittoni in the morning of the November Handicap at 5-1, but when we got to the track he was 2-1. That's what is frustrating and you can't be punting if you don't think there's value in the price.

"It's pretty annoying, too, when I fancy a horse and someone - the wrong person - ruins the price by putting EUR100 on it overnight on Betfair. Anyway, Pittoni got struck into early on and finished well back - that's the way it goes sometimes and you just move on."

After 25 years of near-daily punting, Wilmott knows every bet amounts to a dot on a map. Even at Cheltenham.
COPYRIGHT 2011 MGN LTD

All these winners(where are they?)There not on track? The shops would have closed them down soon enough,I suggest most of the old brigade probably don't move much from the computer and most now lay only.Wise geezers with capital.(unlike me)

Iirc a guy who posts on here called ivor is a full timer,makes it pay but I stand corrected.

I think its easy to work out who wins by the posts 1% I would say but this game is not all about winning for most they enjoy a bet just like a drink or a smoke, nothing wrong with that just enjoying the sport but a few words by a winner is better than millions of words from those that lose

stop checking your p/l every day -

^ the absolute worse advice !

Jul 27, 2013 -- 10:46AM, joshua tree wrote:

The reason Dave Nev is no longer a pro punter is he thought he could win zillions and got to big for his own bootsHas Nevison gone skint?? I dont back horses , but I used to enjoy his column in the Racing and Football Outlook.

i think dave is now involved with bodugi its a game based websiite but there is also a bookie price option where you place bets (based on hills prices maybe) the bookie is dave

Dukeofpuke

i think dave is now involved with bodugi its a game based websiite but there is also a bookie price option where you place bets (based on hills prices maybe) the bookie is dave

The bookie is Dave lol

looks like trying to win the big tote pots took its toll on him

gowaharry, 2.4 lay ,keep button ,matched.2 ton.

This is an interesting thread. I am by no means a professional but I get all my fun from trying to behave like one. There is no fun at all in sitting down at the end of a day realizing that you have just been a mug.
I recently read Mark Littlewoods book "Thoughts and Secrets of Successful Punters. In an exercise in unashamed vanity i decided to pretend he was interviewing me. (The questions are roughly the same for each interviewee). Two of the replies i came up with are particularly relevant here.

What is you approach to staking? Do you have a plan?
The best books on betting all have advice on the management of staking. Some suggest increased stake on shorter priced selections, with a view to achieving a consistent return. The value school takes the view that you should press up, the bigger the price available within a banded plan. Intuitively I think that the size of the stake should reflect the perception of the level of value such that there could be a predetermined stake based on the level of difference between the price available and true price. The bigger the disparity the bigger the stake. As if life wasn’t complicated enough! The reality is that in addition to the actual analysis of the race, this requires a separate and subjective analysis of the true price. I find this difficult and when I’ve tried to do it I find myself racked with self doubt after losing such that it affects the way I approach following analyses. There is always too much on a loser and not enough on a winner, and the overall profit level becomes sporadic or even disappears altogether. The psychology is crippling. Whilst setting out their own particular views on how to approach staking, all sources agree that the purest form of staking is level stakes. So at the risk of being a crushing bore, that’s what I use. It frees me from the mental strife of deciding how much to bet, from regretting the poor decisions, and allows me to enjoy any success on its own merits. I don’t need action bets, and using my strategy for selection, a bet is a bet is a bet.

How do you cope with the inevitable losing runs?
The most important word in the question is “inevitable”. Punters who habitually play at long prices have my full admiration, but the runs this would produce are beyond my mental capacity to withstand. Being quite selective means that I might have between 20 and 30 bets a month and any extended runs without a winner can weigh heavily - I need the buzz of a winner on a reasonably frequent basis to stay focussed. I analyse losing sequences and almost without fail they will include a spell when my discipline has lapsed. So I have to keep reminding myself to keep in line. There is no-one there to check my behaviour other than myself, so it can become quite a challenge. One discipline which I have found useful is to write out a summary of the conclusion leading to bet and e mail it to myself. Reading it back sometimes highlights flawed thinking before committing, but is always helpful in understanding the thought process when the need arises to take stock of successes and failures. I am prone to over confidence after a good winner. The key is to remember that the previous result is totally separate from current analysis and previous decisions have no bearing on what will happen next time (bad habits excepted). Winners can be enjoyed briefly but then put aside and forgotten. Likewise self criticism over bad bets should be an education but shouldn’t be allowed to influence the application of sound logic. The most difficult thing to accommodate is to recognise and then self criticise for a bad bet which happens to win. Conversely, it becomes hard to bear when you narrowly miss with what you know and understand to have been a good bet. When a long run materialises, I look back for indiscipline, work hard to correct it and keep applying the tried and tested methodology. It has happened that in a bad run I come to recognise that no matter what I do my analysis is out of touch. When this is happening I find that a short break is helpful. I just put racing aside, and don’t even look at a card. Coming back fresh and invigorated after a suitable period usually gets me back on track. I also find it difficult when no decent opportunities arise over a period of a number of days, such that I begin trying to look for bets by relaxing key criteria in the selection process. But as Phil Bull famously said, “you can’t manufacture a good bet, you have to wait for it to come along”.

losing runs,whats that.

^
Already stated( in fewer words)


Facts     26 Jul 13 18:26 
Sufficient racing bank is essential.Level stakes betting as a % of this bank is a must.As is having some key indicators that can highlight qualifiers. Too many people have too many bets.I only back one horse a day.

OK mate - thanks for that - I'm now off to beat myself up for even bothering

One more thing I'd comment on since the onset of betfair particularly for me being an in-running player is that before betfair existed a seller was a seller and a group 1 was a group 1, now, although I obviously appreciate and look forward to the best horses and the big festivals, for the purposes of betting, pretty much every race is the same as the next one.

^ but the anticipated result is not. hth

Already stated( in fewer words)Happy
Facts     26 Jul 13 18:26
Sufficient racing bank is essential.Level stakes betting as a % of this bank is a must.As is having some key indicators that can highlight qualifiers. Too many people have too many bets.I only back one horse a day.

Actually that's NOT what I said. level stakes - not a % of the bank. The bank should be big enough to stand losing runs without increase or decrease in the stake. And I certainly wouldn't advocate limiting to one bet a day - as I said "a bet is a bet is a bet". I doesn't matter when it comes, if it ticks the boxes it's on.

I was stating level stakes betting as a % of the bank in two aspects.

1)level stakes - (increase stake if bank increases) as a % of the bank.eg. £5000 bank = £100 level stake. £10,000 bank  = £200 level stake.i.e 2% of bank in each case.

2)the point of having a bank and appropriate stake, covers the issue of losing runs. i.e in the example given it would need 50 consec. losers to lose the bank.

would the stake not decrease as the bank did then  ? 

that would be chasing

No.If the methodology of selection is sound, winners will occur. To reduce stake after losers i.e as a strict % of current bank balance, would mean that when winner occured you have had less stake on it.
I adjust after each month. i.e whatever the bank is at start of month ,the stake is a % of this opening bank. Irrespective of what happens during the month ( profit or loss)the stake remains the same.If the opening bank for the next month is higher, then the stake for that month is higher, if less, then stake is reduced accordingly.

so what percentage is "the bank" of the "big bank" and is the "big bank" a percentage of another bank ?

how many banks does a pro have ? ....HF went completely t*ts up several times

what about just saying what percentage is 5k of your total worth and then the wanabies will have a better idea how much it is safe to S*unk away a month ?

The bank is the bank. There is one betting bank.It keeps running for as long as you want it to.None,some or all can be put away and not played with - its up to you.

bank this bank that percentage over here take away the number you thought of in the beginning....bottom line, once it goes wrong the whole bloody thing will be out the nearest window!!!...It all sounds mighty impressive though, let's call it a willoughby theorum

There's nothing difficult - not exactly rocket science !!
The point is without a bank to cushion a long losing run( financially and mentally) - you're stuffed.hth

I've been so undisciplined that I have never had a bank but if I was not a gambler then I would.

Have 100x my stake which would be £300= £30,000 at the end of the year take the profit or increase stake. I would also have £3,000 for interest bets.

Got to have some type of system or edge rather than just going at anything or everything.

I really believe that people can win a lot at this game with the right attitude.

nobody spotted ruby then for even 2 ton.

Has it ever been proven scientifically you can win full time on here ?

Facts
Apologies I misunderstood your original reply - There is a theory to bet a fixed percentage of the current bank per bet but as you rightly say this is flawed as you will miss profit by having less on winners. Of course the converse is also true but over time the whole return should tend to the mean, which is level stakes per bet regardless of profit or loss, with the bank set to cushion losses. But I wouldn't agree with your method of setting a different stake each month. This amounts to exactly the same thing as reducing/increasing stakes depending on results. The only difference is that you're using an arbitrary time interval to adjust the stake rather than after each bet. The key is to empty the net when you reach a pre-set level of profit and just let the bank see you through the bad times until its back up to level again.  The bank is working capital. You don't withdraw capital when the business is running badly - you keep it invested and working for recovery.

Fair comment - and I have been down this route.But as winners and losers are completely random - I have had instances where a brilliant period( and therefore increased stakes) was then followed by an appalling run.Losing all previous profits.This led me to - as you rightly say - an arbitrary time period of 'stopping and restarting' from a given point ( start of each month.It may mean I don't win as much - but it might mean i don't lose as much.As I say its all random.All I'm doing is introducing a 'time out' element as a means of insurance.
Again,I agree its worth considering withdrawing an amount when a pre-set level of profit is attained.A bank is absolutely working capital.

Good post steerforth

Yep - the psychology is vital. Its about what works for you and keeps you in the game.

I haven't read that many posts on this thread, too many meaningless one
liners as far as I am concerned.
My view, bet only when the odds are in your favour and try and stick to
sports you know about, plus a good deal of discipline and patience.
Go racing.

good posts steerforth and facts...

my bank is going through the ringer at the moment but am hanging in at near the same stakes despite my losing run but i am a loose player and is where i have always done well...

your last comment facts is what i am going through at present and it is tough to bounce back when the bank has been reduced 60% at present and my betting p/l graph is yo yoing

mentally tired from the form book and would love a break...we are deep into the flat season however and we have to hang in, commit and hope it will turn...which it will as believe in my own ability and have had worse runs

being more methodical is difficult for me and find that just as tough as playing the way i do...am not a short player and edges are hard to find whether you play short or are continuously trying to find angles at prices which i am

Harry pack the game in and go back to stacking shelves at Tesco...

You are clueless and have been reading too many poker magazines...

The only way to win is by backing at prices that are better than they should be..

Period.

The only drawback is that it is so difficult to get on that winning is becoming impossible...

The form book went out the window at the same time that Betfair stated to dominate....

......we have to hang in, commit and hope it will turn...which it will as believe in my own ability and have had worse runs.......

A good post too Harry.

This is where the keeping a record of all bets placed is invaluable.It allows you to look back and regain faith in that what you are doing is correct.And - as you say - to remind yourself you've had worse times!
Many times in the past I would question my methodology - and maybe start to tinker with some elements, but subsequent results proved that the system was a sound one and should be persevered with.The sequence/order of winners and losers is random.But if the method of choosing bets is sound it will (in the long run)work out ok.Its not just financial, the mental instability/doubts that can creep in on a long losing run cannot be underestimated. So a Bank, big enough to absorb the financial and mental 'loss' is essential.

Keep the faith !

what a silly boy...why am i clueless spare me your rude tantrum

i certainly have never stacked shelves and i only use waitrose myself...

homefortea

Why do feel it necessary to post such negative and personally insulting comments ?
This one of the few threads on here that is actually raising some good points that may help some people achieve more profits.

Betfair is not the be all and end all and has nothing to do with form of good class racehorses.

And making one line vague comments and stating 'period' -  is just nonsensical.

This 'form-book means nothing' argument is just a case of people being too lazy to study or unable to understand and draw conclusions from form.

If you only bet each way in 8 horse handicaps (the races where you would have the best % chance of placing) in 2012, you would have 467 opportunities for the year. Not that I would do just that, but just shows there are a lot of opportunities where the odds are in YOUR favour.

fair play facts...

listen enjoyed your comments and finding the right mental state is a key for me in gambling...having the ability to control it is what separates those that will win money at the game...if you cannot take the pain you will chase it over the cliff...

just glorious goodwood to test the metal

If you are a serious player, with your bank, staking plan, value seeking etc. What happens when you have a social day out and actually go to the races?

Do you take a break, have a few fun bets on the tote and enjoy yourselves or stick to your rules?

For myself, the enjoyment of a day at the races is a placepot, bet in every race, win and exacta, usually take about £300 and see how it goes.

Can a pro punter let himself go and do this?. Just interested to know.

If you can't afford to blow a couple of hundred quid on a day out then you ain't no professional.

If you think blowing a couple of hundred quid in "fun bets" is acceptable, then I would suggest that you "ain't no professional".

yet again I appear to the only losing punter on Betfair

Someone mentioned betting tax earlier, yes that took me out of the game I remember

There are some wonderful early prices now..how on earth does anyone get anything substantial on at those
prices

I think we all have to find the method we are happiest with and the staking we are happiest with

I will never be a prop punter

absolute b0llox redbait,are you saying a professional footballer cant go and watch another game and have fun,an actor cant go and see a film...etc etc etc

If you are into 'fun' then gambling is obviously not the game for you

hmmmmm

Irrevelant comparisons, patrick. This game is all about discipline and professionalism. Fun bets are ill-disciplined bets and if you think they are doing no harm, you are on a slippery slope.

Having faith in your system/edge and playing it through 300 selections ( at least ) .

Harry
I mentioned in my first post on here about Mark Littlewood's book "The Thoughts and Secrets of Successful Punters". I would recommend you get hold of a copy, not for the answers they give, but for the questions he asks. There is too much variance in the different approaches of the punters he interviews for it to be of any real practical value as "advice". But if you put yourself in their shoes and answer the questions as yourself, as honestly as possible, you'll home in quickly on your good and bad habits. The bad habits will be like a confessional and with intelligent interpretation of your own answers, you'll find quite cathartic.

If you have made  long term profit long term, there is no reason for that to change for a short term bad run. If the bank is at 60% then that's what its there for. But if you've never proven to yourself that you can actually make a profit, then its time to look at the selection methods, or the types of races you're betting in.

If you are in control of yourself plenty of pros can go to the races and have a fun day out with their mates/family,betting £5+£10 fcasts,chucking a nifty in the sweep etc etc,not every day is a day at "the office",that just makes you a right boring tw4t.

I punt dogs for a living,am off to ireland next month for a few days,going racing whilst there,i have no intention whatsoever of "doing the card",i have every intention of spunking a few £ on the tote every race with the family though as part of our evenings entertainment,does that make me "unprofessional"?

No,it makes me a normal bloke.

as I said Patrick we all have to find what we are happiest with

what are fun bets

I often have small bets on various sports I may be watching if a I think it is value
some win, some lose....
What one must be careful is, you don't throw away your profit from your main betting medium
if you are lucky enough to make a profit of course

Pro's are to mean to have fun bets and far to miserablethat's a million on!And as for going racing with family etc that's probably another 100/1 shot!

u dont get llr ,s ,laying 10/11, every bet ,u wont win backing,the game is bent ,always has been,facts is useless by the way,i remember him 2 yrs ago.

R HUGHES, BACKING LAST 10 DAYS FAV 2/1 UNDER =+7 PROFIT.LLR3.DB laying fav,s,=+7 2 days.

he rides sasha park ,today.

@steerforth makes a good point, in passing: I mentioned in my first post on here about Mark Littlewood's book "The Thoughts and Secrets of Successful Punters". I would recommend you get hold of a copy, not for the answers they give, but for the questions he asks. There is too much variance in the different approaches of the punters he interviews for it to be of any real practical value

Some on here see their's as the one true way and condemn the heretics. The truth is there are lots of different approaches that can be profitable. Some require advanced form study, or race-reading skills. Others are purely mechanical, like filthy arbing.

1. Only about 2% of punters make a living wage out of punting. My definition of a propunter is one wot makes a living EGGSKLUSIVELY from punting!
2. Looks like everyone on this thread is a winner which proves that a lot of punters is delusional.
3. "There are lies, damn lies, statistics, and then there is form!" From The Sayings of Dr Slicer, available at all not very good bookshops, nowhere in the country. If form actually worked out, there would be no bookies or BetFair!
4. Trainers often don't know if their horses is in with a chance so wot hope has the punter. How many times has a Godaweful 2nd string beat the first string.
5. Prize monet is so low, it is alleged that other means are necessary to ensure an adequate income from hoarse racing for connections.
6. Hoarses travel from across the globe to some big hoarse races and still get beaten. So expensive travelling costs are incurred and the trainer can't even get the hoarse to win meaning the trainer and owners judgement was wrong. Wot hope for the punter.
7. The official handicapper assesses each hoarse and allocates a weight to ensure that all hoarses in a handicap race cross the line in equal first place. When was the last time this happened?
8. Look at the prices and form of some of the winners in the handicaps at Goodwood today and you will say "How could that possibly have won?"
9.Finally, with regard to hoarse racing for 98% of punters- ITCANTBDONE!

I hope these musings off the top of my head is of assistance!

Dr Aristotle Slicer

deadbrain59     30 Jul 13 07:49 
u dont get llr ,s ,laying 10/11, every bet ,u wont win backing,the game is bent ,always has been,facts is useless by the way,i remember him 2 yrs ago.Crazy



You don't know me from 2 years ago. You dont know me at all. But you're just as clueless and inane as usual.Run along - nothing for you here.

Slicer

......I hope these musings off the top of my head is of assistance!......



they're not.

nb please learn when to use is/arecorrectly there's a good chap.

I'd actually say slicers post has more substance than "have one bet a day" line you spewed out earlier in the thread.

If you have an adge the MORE bets you have the better as you are reducing variance as the bet sample size is increased.

edge

You see? - this is exactly why I don't post often. Every now and then you get a genuinely interesting thread and it ends up disintegrating into a slanging match. I'm off, but before I go, I'd just like to say to Slicer that making a living could be done, at least in theory, but I wouldn't have a clue how to do it in practice. I make a reasonable profit from relatively small level stakes but even then I have to spread it around as I get restricted all over the place. Getting enough on to make a living income would need a level of sophistication beyond my means; the day job is easier, (and I must get back to it now). There is no system as such, but I use a systematic approach which leads me into a race and sometimes I find an angle, but much more often I don't, and there is no bet. You have to accept what comes along, stay disciplined and be ready to spend valuable time with nothing to show for it. I despise losing, and will actively look for reasons not to bet, but sometimes you find the case compelling and have to go in. If you find the act of looking enjoyable, which I do, regardless of whether or not I bet, then its rewarding for its own sake. If you find it a chore, take up gardening.

patrick starr     30 Jul 13 10:14 
I'd actually say slicers post has more substance than "have one bet a day" line you spewed out earlier in the thread.

If you have an adge the MORE bets you have the better as you are reducing variance as the bet sample size is increased.
- in my case -

The determining 'edge' as you call it,can only be applied  - in my case -  to one race.
What's the point in laying out money on more races, where there is no 'fit' to the required criteria ?

Agreed - good luck steerforth

well thats fair enough facts,i didnt see where you posted that this method applies to you in particular,(id be interested to know why its one bet a day that is suited to your style) but in general,if a punter has a proven edge then he should bet as often as is possible to reduce variance as the bet pool grows imo.

also,by betting very regular,the punter reduces stakes and is able to fly under the radar for longer,were a punter to have very scarce bets then he has to increase stakes massively to make a living...we know the issues this brings....

goodwood mudbath = punters bloodbath hth

off to find some fertiliser for the veg patch ...brings the cabbages up like footballs

Don't let the "FACTS" get in the way of a good story!
Thanks for your support Mr Starr!
Mr Steerforth-slanging matches is a feature of forums such as wot this is! I often stop debating when it gets to slanging. If we can't be civil to each other we might as well just go on Twitter! One point I would make is that most BetFairians would be a lot richer if BetFair had never been invented!

Lets see how many of the Grate Minds on this thread come out winning at Goodwood this afternoon with all them handicaps in the changed going!

Good luck nearly all and back the outsiders that are wearing spikes!

Slicer you are right my fwend.

Which is why i will guarantee making a profit over the Goodwood period by being selective by having 50k on New Approach to finish in the first 2 inthe Sussex.

I always wanted an Angel as a fwend!
Good luck to you and I hope you pwosper!

Excellent posts Facts and Steerforth. Good luck

been with pp a week,still waiting for a winner

a lot of cunninghams ,no posts ,just gob****.

page2 now.

Slicer
     30 Jul 13 09:23   









1. Only about 2% of punters make a living wage out of punting. My definition of a propunter is one wot makes a living EGGSKLUSIVELY from punting!
2. Looks like everyone on this thread is a winner which proves that a lot of punters is delusional.
3. "There are lies, damn lies, statistics, and then there is form!" From The Sayings of Dr Slicer, available at all not very good bookshops, nowhere in the country. If form actually worked out, there would be no bookies or BetFair!
4. Trainers often don't know if their horses is in with a chance so wot hope has the punter. How many times has a Godaweful 2nd string beat the first string.
5. Prize monet is so low, it is alleged that other means are necessary to ensure an adequate income from hoarse racing for connections.
6. Hoarses travel from across the globe to some big hoarse races and still get beaten. So expensive travelling costs are incurred and the trainer can't even get the hoarse to win meaning the trainer and owners judgement was wrong. Wot hope for the punter.
7. The official handicapper assesses each hoarse and allocates a weight to ensure that all hoarses in a handicap race cross the line in equal first place. When was the last time this happened?
8. Look at the prices and form of some of the winners in the handicaps at Goodwood today and you will say "How could that possibly have won?"
9.Finally, with regard to hoarse racing for 98% of punters- ITCANTBDONE!

I hope these musings off the top of my head is of assistance!

Dr Aristotle Slicer

Thankfully most trainers are clueless otherwise there would never be any value,form can only be interpreted around prices and as most punters 98% the figure you've put up only look at the most present and blindingly obvious all the value is overlooked.Picking winners is based on numerous things price is the most important but unless you've factored in at least 4/5 other important angles there's probably no bet.Also the thing about amount of winners on the thread,depends what you mean by winning what is the average wage 25k a year? that would be barely surviving if you're betting to win that amount as a full time punter!That's not betting for a living that's gambling.

totally agree,got it in a nutshell,im happy laying,1/1,to 7/4.

.............what is the average wage 25k a year? that would be barely surviving if you're betting to win that amount as a full time punter!That's not betting for a living that's gambling.Cool



????  Where has it been stated that £25k is the figure trying to be won ????

25k net probably equates to 35k gross salary.

how are property prices so high if ave wage is 35k gross?

I love averages!
If one person earns £10k a year and another earns £100k a year, the average wage is £55k.
That is how informative averages is!

I hope this clarifies the matter.

thx bud

Ur welcome!

R HUGHES, 2YR OLD TROMORE,=WON 5/4 FAV.

Are you determined to keep this thread at the top regardless of whether you have anything relevant or even vaguely related to say? What a nightmare - I was really quite enjoying it!

whos steerfart.

Facts
     31 Jul 13 13:07   

.............what is the average wage 25k a year? that would be barely surviving if you're betting to win that amount as a full time punter!That's not betting for a living that's gambling.Cool



????  Where has it been stated that £25k is the figure trying to be won ????


Slicer was referring to all the apparent winners on the thread I just plucked that figure out as a figure that would not justify the means and as it was a leading ? and you were the only one to reply it speaks volumes!