Fallon

Cannot wait to hear ima's explination

It's called back luck in running starfish and coffee, happens every day and to every jockey, that's racing.

funny old game

Ima

Have to agree with you holywell.  I layed Velox for a fair few quid and regard myself as very fortunate to collect.

I'll copy and paste what I wrote in the other thread holywell and it was still just bad luck in running.

I expect I'll really give people ammo to call me a loony now but have you ever seen that film Sliding Doors with Gwyneth Paltrow? It's the one where she misses her tube train and the you see a parallel universe type thing of what might have happened had she got the train and what actually did when she missed it. The point being made is that you see either one or the other so only know the one actual outcome and not what might have been.

Had the gaps come for Fallon when going up the inner or had Hughes's horse had the toe to take him through and Fallon followed, then he would have been lauded for a great ride and Richard Kingscote would have been slaughtered for going around the outside and running so much farther, which will have been given as the reason for him losing.

Anyway, this is what I wrote elsewhere:

He's dropped the horse out and gone around closest to the rail all the way to save ground, gambling on either tracking the leaders through when they go for home or hoping that when runners fall away that the gaps will come. Obviously that comes with an element of risk but is exactly how he won the Arc on Hurricane Run the first time when the gaps came, yet was beaten on the same horse when riding the exact same race the second time when he got checked and another runner took the gap before him.

He isn't psychic though and he and 101 other jockeys will have done exactly the same thing before in other races as he did for tonight's ride, sometimes it comes off and sometimes it doesn't. He clearly wanted to win the race, which was why when the Hughes/Stoute horse couldn't tow him through up the inner, he moved off the rail to try to find another run, got checked by another runner so then eventually had to pull to the outer but one.

I backed it win and place and also did the winner win and place too but to half that stakes of Fallon's horse so a win the other way suited me better but clearly the best horse didn't win, yet to bring up a bugbear of mine, had he barged his way through illegally and won then you would get the old cliché trotted out that it didn't matter as the best horse won anyway, yet Fallon stayed within the rules and the best horse didn't win.

Lovely piece of aftertiming there.

Yeah OK holywell that's no problem but I'm sure if I asked you to give in detail why you think it was a bad ride then you would be saying very much what I have said, we would just disagree on whether those circumstances count as a bad ride or bad luck in running I suppose.

I'm not necessarily saying it applies to you here but too many people think a race is just the last 50 yards or so and don't take into account what has happened earlier in it.

If that was to me Dan Chipowski then funnily enough, the fact that I have described retrospectively what actually happened during the race is after timing, as the race has to be run first before I can describe it.....Although I think you will find with my example that that's not what people actually mean when using the word after timing anyway.

As a punter who might have backed it then I'm sure you would Duvauchelle but considering Fallon pulled Stuart Webster off his horse that time for dangerous riding when he nearly put a young apprentice over the rail, or considering Fallon is only just back from a 5 day ban, I'm guessing he probably thought it maybe wasn't the best thing to do under the circumstances.

" but considering Fallon pulled Stuart Webster off his horse that time for dangerous riding"

that's partly my point. H's lost a bit of his nerve, his instinct, his reactions seem slower as does Dettori's.

Oops sorry lol, OK well seeing as though I know I backed the first and second and have no reason to lie, I'll admit it didn't even occur to me that anyone was doubting my word, which was why I made reference to the fact that's not usually what people mean when saying after timing. If I had a past record of claiming to have backed anything when I had not and was caught out or if I actually was lying then I might have picked up on it, but my apologies for not thinking like a total cynic. That and the fact I had written what I had backed elsewhere earlier and only copied and pasted it at the end of my originally typed message in this thread so didn't bother reading that part again.

Why would someone doubt a complete stranger's word though unless that just happens top be their default setting to doubt everyone? Let me guess what comes next, show me your bets by any chance? Funnily enough, if I had after timed I think I would probably have claimed to have had twice as much staked on the winner instead of the other way around but there you go.

GB / Hayd 5th Jul / 21:15 1m2f Hcap Double Discount Back 28065160831 05-Jul-13 21:06 C     5.7 5.00 5.7 23.50
   
GB / Hayd 5th Jul / 21:15 To Be Placed Double Discount Back 28065155302 05-Jul-13 21:05 C 2.74 10.00 2.74 17.40

GB / Hayd 5th Jul / 21:15 To Be Placed Velox Back 28065131645 05-Jul-13 21:04 C 2.28 20.00 2.28 25.60
   
GB / Hayd 5th Jul / 21:15 1m2f Hcap Velox Back 28065126920 05-Jul-13 21:04 C 3.9 10.00 3.9 (10.00)

HTH.

Ima you're better off just saying 'he gave the horse a bad ride' and leaving it at that. I'm sure even you don't believe the essays you constantly churn out to defend Fallon. Sometimes he is in the wrong whether you wish to believe it or not. And other jockeys mistakes don't count as a reason for his.

Sir Micahae Stoute, the most trustworthy man in racing

I never claimed to be a big punter and think your bitter message lustrumm is considerably sadder than anything I've ever written anyway. Exactly how much sadder can you get than acting like a 12 year old abusive keyboard to somebody you don't even know merely because you disagree with them? I wonder if you were in a pub and overheard a conversation between two blokes and one had a different view to one of them would you amble over and tell him "What a sad ****" he is or would the fear of being ironed out make you see sense?

Maybe I should have er, after timed and stuck a few more noughts on the end eh? Or what about if I lost a few bets where I had staked 3 or 4 figures and posted those bets up, does that make me a more authentic punter then and worthy in your sad eyes? And there was me thinking the game was all about making money!

Oh and I actually make most of my money by laying anyway so those were just a few thrown away bets for fun based on a couple of jockeys I rate that I regularly see often unjustifiably slaughtered on here by others.

I believe every word MJK but please feel free to point out what was inaccurate in my assessment.

Ima you're the only person in the history of the world who watches racing who has never seen Fallon give a horse a bad ride. I do believe you're long winded counter arguments are just a tool to try to bore people into submission. My point is that you'd probably get a little respect if now and again you just simply said 'yes it was a poor ride'.

Gbtp, What's the facinination with losing rides by Fallon on here ? Moore and most of your English crappy jocks  ride a lot more losers than Fallon , Spencer, Hughes , Queally and the other Irish jocks who go to the UK cos they can't make it at home  and not a Dickie bird about them so if you have the time do some proper analysis before you knock the mighty Fallon or his countrymen who keep horse racing in Engerland on the road.

Ima I never mentioned dishonesty and no I don't think that every bad ride is a dishonest one. In fact the reason I rarely bet on the flat anymore is because there are so many poor jockeys who give poor rides, some of which are immediately thought of as dishonest but in fact are just poor rides. My point to you is that for EVERY poor ride by Fallon you immediately jump to his rescue, people may take you more seriously if you actually admit he gave a horse a bad ride.

This is the crux of the matter with me though MJK and Facts because I agree he probably should have gone closer but was it due to a poor ride which you both think or due to not getting a clear run and bad luck which is what I think?

Whether it be Fallon or any other jockey, I then want to look back at the video and see were there any explanations for the run rather than just label it as a poor ride and use the default setting of blame the jockey. If you then take into account the race was run on ground described at Good to Firm yet the time was 4 seconds slower than average, that it was a 16 runner field, that all 16 were still in contention at the 2f pole, that at that stage there was a little over a length or two between first and last, then that tells me there were bound to be a few hard luck stories and especially from those coming from off the pace when trying to weave through and get a run.

If all 16 runners could be covered by a length or two at the 2f pole in a 16 runner sprint handicap I'd expect there to be  a few problems in getting a run, let alone a 12f handicap and I don't expect too many will actually bother to but if you were to go back and watch the video of the race again but just watch Fallon alone then I really can't see what else people were expecting him to do. As I said previously, Joe Fanning got on an even worse run on Sir Graham Wade because he was to Fallon's inner so couldn't even try to find a gap via pulling to the outer.

Here are the RP's post race comments for both runs:

Opinion - Held up in mid-division, driven over 4f out, not clear run 2f out until switched right just inside final furlong, ran on well

Sir Graham Wade - Held up in mid-division, not clear run from over 2f out, not recover, eased closing stages

So basically despite practically being side by side bar a horse's width between them, Fallon finished 5th when only getting a run late on and was flying at the finish but Fanning being to Fallon's inner finished 10th because he wasn't ever able to get out.

I just find it amusing that there aren't half a dozen threads started up slagging Fanning though. Not that I think there should be because neither jockey could have done much else regarding how the race panned out with so many runners in contention for so much of the race almost guaranteed there would be traffic problems.

wot about HAVLINS RIDE on Wannabe loved?

Had a nice e/w double yesterday LOUIS THE PIOUS ( another fallon bad ride ) and WANNABE LOVED ( wish fallon had rode it)

FACTS you are spot on and believe me I know he would agree with you.