Harry this isnt going to be the same for everyone but for me.i lay a bet of £200ew at 16/1.even on a busy day i would probably only want to leave £50ew in the book.hopefully i would get 18 or 20 £150 in the win book.on the off i would perhaps stand the front 3 for £200 but there would be no way out of the place and it would take £800 out.i could probably cope with that but if i laid two or 3 bets of that size yes they could be unplaced but i dont want to play like that.before everyone says you want everything in your favour and thats not old fashioned bookmaking.i agree but its my business and thats how i want to run it.

can't see it , swardean , although that is the way an exchange works it's a necessity because of the 100% book.
on course I bet place only on every race and only take an average of two or three a day. there just isn't the demand or interest for it on the racecourse

Excuse my spelling i'm still in a state of shock!

didn't know that was true , ribero1 , sadly ther are a good number of bookmakers I once respected doing the same on a permanent basis. don't anymore , unfortunately

they thought that such restrictions were stopping bookmakers from giving special offers of 1/3rd odds etc.
bright bunch aren't they . which reminds me that my highly inflated annual licence fee is due soon too

adge - I "ask for the fractions" but don't arb. How do you differentiate?

Genuine question

Beverley who?

actually regit it's the bookies who rather bizarrely want to bet to exchange odds on the win book. No i don't mean the experienced layers such as yourself. i mean the 'traders' as i refer to them. they are mostly (tho not all) part time, and almost 100% can't frame a book without a computer, and of course they restrict the place book because they are bound on every penny in the ring. it's a practice which ultimately destroys our future
of course i agree, and have argued punters need to help themselves. no issue there. standardisation, i think is the consensus view and would deal with that issue.
many of the (weak) arguments seem predicated on the basis we have to bet to exchange odds to be competitive. this argument totally ignores the commercial reality of chesterbet. a very successful model which if it shows one thing- it's that the majority of punters couldn't give a monkeys about the price if the service is there!
That's an argument I haven't heard anyone address. But it's certainly pause for thought

Some interesting discussion this morning...What we must ALL consider is that although we are running INDIVIDUAL businesses, we are INTER-DEPENDANT.......as such,perceived bad practise/service by the few will, ultimately impact to the detriment of the majority....We, the betting ring, are/will be increasingly not just in competition with each other, but with internet operators with a much lower cost/turnover ratio than ourselves....not to mention the in-house betting operations. It is therefore vital that we,as a group of INTER-DEPENDANT businesses organise OURSELVES so that betting ring customers receive the best customer service that we as a COLLECTIVE group can possibly give...I'm afraid an increasing percentage of our number are of the mindset that,in an increasingly competitive environment, it's all ALL about THEM...not the customer....therein lies disaster. Regulation place terms should be used by ALL....no excuses !

Regit - Your post where you mention taking £200 e/w when only actually wanting probably £50 e/w convinces me even more about the merits of a turnover tax....you have the ridiculous situation at the moment where a book lays £1000 at say 2/1..has £800 back at say 3.1...only to find the actual layer of this bet is the bookmaker behind him who cannot get the fav at 2/1, because the money has already gone into the exchange...commercial madness !....a gross turnover tax would ensure that each layer only lays what he actually WANTS to lay....affording other oncourse operators the chance of getting turnover at fair price, that at present is making it's way to exchanges.

A gross turnover tax ie where money sent to the exchanges is also taxed,could lead to a substantial increase in turnover on the track whilst at the same time improve margins.If this was accompanied by a reduction in the cost of the badge and standard place odds made compulsory it could be a win,win,win improvement for courses,bookmakers and punters.

CHATTO - PREVIOUSLY POSTED A 3% GROSS TURNOVER TAX UPTO 6K, APPLYING TO ALL RINGS....MORE FOR FESTIVALS....INSTEAD OF BADGE/MARKETING FEE TOTAL.LOTS OF ADVANTAGES....DO THE MATHS RELATING TO EXCHANGE TRADING.....NOBODY SO FAR COME UP WITH A COUNTER ARGUMENT.

ribero1 - I think mugbookie meant that is the ceiling on the charges (ie 3% of £6,000 = £200), not the ceiling on your turnover.

My maths is good

My thoughts were about 1% which would reduce hedging with the machine and reduce liquidity on the exchanges which would also reduce leakage to this source by punters.Marry this to the undoubted better odds for short priced horses on course and standard each way odds plus reduced betting badges and entrance for bookmakers could be a way forward.This topic shows how difficult it is to get any consensus of the way forward and hence thinking out of the box must be a way forward.Anyone dismissing such suggestions must be content to commit hari kari.

I'm going to secure a supply of little black books as I can see a market for them shortly

WASNOT - YOU WORRY ME !

RIBERO - YES. A MAXIMUM BADGE FEE OF £180....IF YOU TAKE MORE THAN 6k....you wouldn't have to declare your turnover, just pay £180. It is an idea that is 'front loaded' but the current contracts linked to entrance price are unsustainable...just consider fees associated with music nights as an example. What do you think will happen to your turnover once 4g/5g arrives for free on the racecourse....I can see it now....Download your BETOFFSHOREFROMCHESTERRACECOURSE App for a free £20 bet.As it is now you are on a badge fee escalator...with the racecourse having no interest whatsoever as to the viability of your business. Chester five years from now £50 to get in ? badge £350...reduced turnover..is that sustainable ? also, crunch some numbers regarding margin...the exchange traders will be priced out from betting to almost nothing.

Sounds like we're the only ones who remember the days of on-course betting tax radge
There will have to be a top of the page and fair price combo key

Ribero the race in question was the last at thirsk.i put my prices in the computer,112% win,104%place.then before altering them to make it workable checked around me.2 books betting 1/5 so changed the place terms so i could compete.a front line book shot across to complain.(he usually bets 1/5 1234 on the national)but ive had enough.i repeat i will vote(if there is one)for standard terms,i will never alter the terms first,but i want a level playing field.if the place terms are above 100% in any 16+ hcap at york this week im going to bet 1/4 1234.care to join me ribero.

Oh and to answer your question if its above 100 with pleasure.