BOOKMAKER URGES CREATION OF A NEW BODY TO SAVE RING

Are we back here again ffs

THE PRICES IN THE SHOP AT 1/4 ARE SMALLER THAN THE PRICES IN THE RING AT 1/5TH

REGIT - You have been posting some very perceptive, reasonable comments of late but..'we dont want to look split'...YOU MUST BE JOKING....anybody who bets 1/4 1234 at circa 100% place these days, is very busy....they might not be winning...but they're busy

unbiased i see where your coming from but try getting a couple of hundred ew with an oncourse shop on one of these races.theres a big punter oncourse at the moment who specialises in these races and though the offices bet 1/4 1234 oncourse he cant be on.intheknow will confirm this.HOPEFULLY.the reason is they baulk at it even with 1000 shops and 4000 fobt,s behind them.

mmmalushka     02 May 13 14:05 
roo, you stick to what you know best, fast picture thieving/tracksider

I know more than youll learn if you live to 1,000 yrs old lad, hence why ive got the trip and thousands havent, less of the insults tho whoever you are.

mugbookie im a great believer that if u wonder how some books are making it pay they arent.
IF IT WALKS LIKE A DUCK AND IT QUACKS LIKE A DUCK.



ITS PROBABLY A DUCK!!!!!!!!

What I find very odd about all this overbroke talk,is it ISN'T anything new.I can remember backing e.w. on overbroke books oncourse long before exchanges were on the scene.Have also bet into overbroke win  books at----yes Cheltenham at the beginning of the season meeting.So it happened on grade one courses,not just at the gaffs.
  If any bookmaker says they never attended a meeting,pre exchanges,when the betting in the ring was under 100%,I would be amazed,no,I would dispute it.
A bookmaker,now retired through ill health,told me that on a seven race card one day,they bet overbroke on the win book on 3 races.However it didn't bother him as he was only concerned about the end of his year figures.

unbiased...firms who lay current prices at proper each way terms.
yes the same prices as those who go 1/4 in the ring.
the sad part for betting shop punters is the price on the boards of those going 1/5th are NEVER transmitted to betting shop shows so they always miss out on the better win price

REGIT - but it's not a dead DUCK....yet

roo • May 2, 2013 2:09 PM BST
mmmalushka     02 May 13 14:05 
roo, you stick to what you know best, fast picture thieving/tracksider

I know more than youll learn if you live to 1,000 yrs old lad, hence why ive got the trip and thousands havent, less of the insults tho whoever you are.


^^^^^Oh dear,^^^^

TheNorfolkMafia     02 May 13 14:16 
roo • May 2, 2013 2:09 PM BST
mmmalushka     02 May 13 14:05 
roo, you stick to what you know best, fast picture thieving/tracksider

I know more than youll learn if you live to 1,000 yrs old lad, hence why ive got the trip and thousands havent, less of the insults tho whoever you are.


^^^^^Oh dear,^^^^
??

i fail to understand you, the norfolkmafia.

Wasnot- that's the spirit. I agree

Swift Tuttle has kindly shown you how much better off you are betting on here than with on course bookmakers and nobody bothered to question or reply to him. I become ever more convinced that this is a thread for a few bitter and twisted bookmakers lamenting the good old days and hoping that they could some how rejuvinate the halcyon days of long lines of mug punters taking anything that's offered to them. In the past they have never given two hoots about the conditions they were offering punters, its only now that times are desperate for them that they showing this considerate face. My message remains the same, in your current form we (racing and punters) dont need you.

OLIAS,WHICH RACECOURSE DO U WORK FOR?????? I HAVE NEVER HEARD AS MUCH SHYTE SPOUTED FROM ONE PERSON SINCE RAINMAC LAST POSTED ON HERE

"Swift Tuttle has kindly shown you how much better off you are betting on here than with on course bookmakers"

The SP is for off course not on course.....
How many of swift-tuttle's 93784 bets were Each Way bets?

i'm amused that olias and his friend swift tuttle believe that racecourse punters bet both win only and take starting price.
I suppose it takes all sorts

I am equally amused that you think punters only take BFSP on here. 98% of punters lose money betting and on course that would probably be higher given the nature of attendees, in which case its highly unlikely that they understand EW betting, more likely they make EW bets because as most mug punters seem to think, it offers some sort of safety net. A bad win bet is a double bad win bet when made EW. Factmachine I dont work for any race course, I am full time pro punter but I also believe that racing has an opportunity to rid itself of these parasites known as bookmakers and grab this cash cow for themselves.

as you are just one of the 98% I can understand how you feel bitter
at least the punters on a racecourse do get to enjoy their day out in the fresh air.

oliasofsunhillow

for a full time pro punter you spend a lot of time posting on this forum.

I accept that there are a lot of variables behind the figures involving choice of bet, early prices, commission etc
and my own sentiments lie with on-course bookies surviving as I think they are a necessary part of the day out at the races experience
My grandfather was a bookie at Gosforth & Brough Park dogs and I spent a lot of time with him learning about overrounds and the like

but you cannot deny what is happening unfortunately, times change and money rules and there's not a lot you can do about it

Very good to see Chester not replenishing,hats off to all concerned.

Especially Radge.

Where do you expect me to be betting Foxy, with Bookmakers :)... please

I would expect you to be putting some time and effort into the form book as we have reached such a busy period ,or are you one of those many new pro punters who just follow ?

I do not read the form book or at least not in the sense that you describe. Most of my selections are automated which leaves me time to focus on the most important of ingredients PRICE

oh dear

OLIAS,HERE ARE THE FACTS,U CANT GET TWO BOB ON WITH THE SO CALLED big BOOKS,IF AS I SUSPECT YOU BET IN £2 STAKES THEN YOU ARE BETTER OFF ON HERE,IF YOU HAVE EVER ATTENDED A RACECOURSE(WHICH I VERY MUCH DOUBT) THE VALUE FOR THE PUNTER IS AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN WITH THE ONCOURSE BOOKMAKER,PRE EXCHANGE THE TOTE WOULD HAVE PUT THE BOOKS OUT OF BUSINESS, YOU CAN HAVE ON WHAT U WANT AND THERE ARE PLENTY OF OUTLETS BUT IT DIDNT I WONDER WHY,NOW THE ONCOURSE BOOKS HAVE TO COMPETE WITH RIP OFF MERCHANTS LIKE CHESTERBET,RIPONBET,BANGORBET,THAT OFFER NO VALUE TO THE RACEGOER WHATSOEVER,THEN WE HAVE YOUR BELOVED EXCHANGES THAT OFFER NO LIQUIDITY FOR ANYONE WANTING A BET OVER £20(IF U DOUBT IT PICK ANY RACE TODAY ON BETFAIR AND HAVE A LOOK WHATS ON OFFER RIGHT NOW)BUT AS U HAVE NEVER SET FOOT IN THE BETTING RING U WOULD BE BLISSFULLY UNAWARE THAT PUNTERS HAVE NEVER HAD IT SO GOOD ON BRITISH RACECOURSES(OR AT LEAST THE ONES I ATTEND).YOU DESCRIBE YOURSELF AS A PROFFESIONAL PUNTER,MORE LIKE A PROFFESIONAL TROLL

I would expect you to be putting some time and effort into the form book as we have reached such a busy period ,or are you one of those many new pro punters who just follow ?

foxy , are you only classed as a pro punter when you study for hours and make money ?
or are you considered a pro punter when you make a good living from betting regardless of how long you study and make your selections ?

or are you one of those many new pro punters who just follow

foxy , do you mean like how bookmakers follow betfair prices ?

Why are you comparing right now with on course bookmakers. I do not bet in £2 stakes Factmachine, in fact I am a VIP member on here and you have to turn over a lot more than £2 bets/lays to reach that point.

V.I.P. OHH IN THAT CASE I TAKE IT ALL BACK

Must Make Those In Running Sharks on the Prem Charge  V UN PS

2 bets with korrals in a shop for the hunters chases, 800-100 marky bob, you got an 8 ponys.

900-200 harbour court bertfrod, you got eff all.

Meanwhile back at the ranch i layed a geezer a 2750-500ew batu ferringhi on the rail at chelt when it was 6.4.

Thats the difference, most books on track will at least give a punter a semblance of a fair bet.

High street prices between 9am and race time are purely cosmetic, sadly.

OLIAS,U NEED TO GET OUT MORE

Lots of personal insults from the bookie supporters here but very few constructive counter arguments bar some guys notion that EW is better on course or perhaps could be better if some stopped ripping punters off with poor EW terms. Its a good feeling in a debate when your opponents simply resort to slagging off

or to put it another way Olias - if the value on-course is so much better than Betfair and the High St, what's all the fuss about?

The punters will seek out the value

OLIAS,THERE ISNT ANYTHING WHAT U SAY TO COUNTER AGAINST,ITS JUST UTTER DRIVELL,EVEN SO I WISH U EVERY SUCCESS WITH YOUR 2 QUID PUNTS ON HERE THATS IF THERES ENOUGH LIQUIDITY FOR U TO GET ON AFTER ALL SHARPMINDS BETFAIR,CUT OUT THE MIDDLEMAN,BUT I THINK UVE DONE YOUR CASH WITH THE BETFAIR SHARES,SELL,SELL,SELL,GOOD LUCK

I agree Tuttle, but the truth is people are not going racing for value. When they do go its for the day out, nothing more.

In the spirit of being constructive, Olias, unless you actually attend the tracks with a smartphone you wouldn't know what goes on.  The shows on screen (and in the shops) and the Sps bear no relation to the prices available to good money on course.  Remember that the comparison tables on the TV show the lowered average prices available from a select few layers on course, whereas the Betfair show is the highest price available amongst all layers, even to just a £2 stake available so its really not comparing like with like at all and should not be used.  The shows on course come from layers who will lay a bet to 'good money' generally accepted that they will lay it to lose £5,000 or more.  If you applied the same logic to betfair and only showed the odds available to lose £5,000 or more it would be a fairer comparison and would not show the exchange prices in a favourable light (hence why they don't do it).  On course, if the fav is 3.9 on here I will guarantee you will be able to get a decent bet on at 3/1 on course.  As the odds get longer so the better prices switch to the exchange.  If you want to back a horse to win only at 20/1 or above, generally you are better backing on the exchange, 10/1 up to 20/1 it is either or and under 10/1 you are better with the on course books (as a rule, obviously not always).

Lets forget how big a punter I am, its not relevant to the discussion. The question is why do we need on course bookmakers in preference to the emerging alternatives. I have already stated that as a punter and a lover of racing I would prefer ChesterBet for the casual could not care less punter and 4G access to exchanges/Chesterbet/offcourse bookies for the more thinking punter. Having said that most will of course use the exchange. On course bookmakers well if they want to stand at the very big meets then sure let them do so but I am not really interested in resurrecting there previous glory days. I prefer Racing to benefit and the punter as well.

Wasnot what you are describing with regard to < 10/1 is really pinching prices when Betfair suggests its about to drop. In the grand scheme of betting these are isolated occurances that beenfit only those price sensitive enough to monitor both exchanges and the on course books. Your argument therefore seems to be that for the benefit of a few smart gamblers who can make it to the course we should shaft racing by not encouraging racing to sever itself from the purse strings of bookmakers

Very blinkered view olias.  You can ALWAYS beat the bf price about those under 10/1 in the main tatts ring, you just need to look beyond the premium pitches.  I'm not suggesting people go to the races purely for the betting value.  By the time you've paid petrol, exorbitant admission fees etc plus the hassle of it, if you're purely a value punter you might as well stay at home.  My customers are not sat here on this forum.  They are people who love the day out and the spectacle of live action.  As regards replacing us with Chesterbet or whatever, isn't that the same argument we've just settled with the racecourses where they wanted to take our pitches away and discovered that they can't as we have rights of tenure so its a spurious notion.  Its no different to suggesting that the off course firms have their shops taken off them an we have an off course tote monopoly for the good of racing.  There is a little matter of the law standing in the way.

Racecourses would make a lot more money by nationalising betfair and running it for their own good.  Again, the law (fortunately) prevents such bully boy tactics.

do racecourse bookmakers not pay the racecourses ?

The funny side of all the open to all postings, is that when you disagree with a poster,not allowed to tell them they are wrong,upsets their ego,you are labelled one of the following.
Left wing
Right wing
Daily Mail reader
£2 Punter
Bookmakers apologist
Bookmakers stooge.
Bookie basher
Dole merchant
Bedsit scrounger etc.
What should be accepted is that MAYBE some posters responding to threads have some relevant points to make.Instead of which abuse follows,with being labelled one of the above.




What is never accepted,is that MAYBE you do have some relevant

*points to make.

Of course but Racecourse's would make more if they owned the majority of on course betting. In the past they have farmed it out because it just seemed like an area of expertise that they do not understand. Some are now realising that they can own the on course betting and make more by doing so.

Like the catering too.

I agree unbiased, some seem to think that debating with a counter opinion is best done by simply getting personal and slagging them off, or in the case of the actual bookmakers on here ignoring them. What they really want is a thread where only there views are dominating. I suspect there is an on course storm/wind coming and they would like to get as many on their side as possible.

I would not know anything about the catering/security/car parking mgt or any other branch of the day.

OLIAS,U COME ON THIS FORUM SLAGGING ONCOURSE BOOKS OFF THEN GET UPSET WHEN YOU ARE FOUND OUT TO BE TALKING UTTER NONSENSE AND ACCUSE PEOPLE OF "GETTING PERSONAL AND SLAGGING OFF" U REALLY ARE PRECIOUS

You dont know anything about the betting side of it either Olias.

I am not upset I just dont think it aids the debate. Those that support the bookies would probably wish that you did not participate with the personal insults because it makes their side of the argument look bad.

How do you come to that conclusion Jimeen

PERSONNALLY SPEAKING I THINK OLIAS YA NOT A BAD CHAP ....BUT YA CLASSIC CASE OFF NOT KNOWING THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN ......LET ME EXPLAIN ...THERES SEVERAL TIMES A DAY WHEN ON HERE THEYLL DECLARE THERE S.P. OF 4.2....BUT THERES ONLY 2 BOB FOR IT TRY AT THE OFF GETTING 2,000 ON YOUD END UP WITH 3.85 FOR YA DOUGH .....AND OLIAS IT DOES HAPPEN FREQENTLY ...NOW LETS SAY ITS A 10 HORSE RACE AS THERE LOADING YOU NOW START ASKING THE TATTS -RAILS BOOKS FOR A 6,000 TO 2,000.....IF YOU KNOW WHO TO ASK 2 ENQUIRIES -YOUR ON..........BECUASE THERE ARE LADS OUT THERE WHO WANT TO SEE YOU AGAIN THEY DONT WANNA MESS U ABOUT SO THEY WILL GIVE YOU A FAIR BET ....BUT TRY IT ON BETFAIR AND FOR ALL THERE VWOLLOX ABOUT HOW MANY TIMES THEY BEAT THE S.P.  U CAN REALLEY STRUGGLE TO GET THE BET .......................OLIAS THIS IS FACT

Olias,you are one of those idiots who thinks  betfair is the only way to bet. You even thought that 5.2 was far and away a better deal than 4/1. I know that you have no desire to actually win punting so maybe betfair is the method of punting that suits you best.

JIMEEN,WOULD U PLEASE STOP THE INSULTS

a hypothetical question

if offered FAIR terms how many on course bookmakers would take their redundancey tomorrow if offered

yes or no and reasons why or why not

BECAUSE OLIAS AT 4.2 TO £68 BETFAIR BELIEVE THAT SHUD BE THE TRUE S.P. FOR THE COUNTRY .....THEY ACTUALLY BELIEVE IT

70%

John Stephenson was offered but he said he still got a good ten years in him and didn't want to give up his voting rights on the board

A SECRET BALLOT MAYBE 90 BUT IF 20 OF THAT 90 KNEW THEN -THEYD BE PREPARED TO STAY ON THE GROUNDS THAT IT WOULD VIABLE WORTH IT

RR YOU CAN MAKE THAT DECISION WHEN YA GOT FORTUNES CANT YA ....BUT YA ON YA A...RS. END AND SOMEONE COMES ALONG AND GIVES YA 99P IN THE POUND THEN YA SELL

The reason they will offer you those odds/stake is because they are under Betfair odds. The reason all these on course chaps dont simply sit at home and work from there on Betfair is because they could never make it work. The average on course bookmaker has not had to do too much thinking in the past, the market took care of that and provided they watched who and how much they took money off the worm will always turn as one bookie said. On here its much tighter and requires much more thought

OLIAS YA RIGHT

With 4g covering 98% of the country by the end of the year ,offering a lot quicker facility and possible introduction of wireless,
betting threw a mobile on course is likely to become very efficient. This in turn would attract more people to the track .
There will then be very little need for the clowns running commission books on course.

Can you bet cash on 4g then?

Haven't got it yet were I live but don't see why not.

WHEN U RING UP FOR A BET THEN ON THE 4G THEY JUST KNOCK U BACK 5 SECONDS QUICKER THAN IF YOUR ON 3G,WITH BETFAIR AND DAQ IT DOESNT MATTER IF THEY HAD 20G THERES STILL ONLY 2QUID IN THE BOX,HOPE THIS HELPS.

What is cash, you will be asking if 4g will allow you to bet at 7/4 next instead of 1.75/1 or 2.75

Correct me if I am wrong but don't on course bookies still use 13/8 15/8 5/2 etc on their boards ?

Thats nonsense there's loads of liquidity on BF in the 10 mins before the off, on most races.

OLIAS,IM OFF TO BANGOR TONIGHT,BIGGER THAN THE MACHINE EVERY RACE,NO COMMISSION,NO PREMIUM CHARGE,WOULD LOVE TO MEET U AND HAVE A CHAT

I think what they are saying Tinkler is that you can only get 5 quid on here at 80/1 whereas you can get 6k on at 40/1 on the course without a problem

Happy to meet up Fact but not Bangor. I go to York in August and occasionally to Leicester

UTTOX SAT?????????

The on course bookies aren't even bookies their commission agents, they offer BF prices with a 10% to 40% commission on top the vast
majority of the time. In effect they offer a dreadful service that racing needs to eradicate as quickly as possible.

on course -

bigger than the machine
no commission
no premium charge

seems like you on course bookies are missing a trick , why dont you accomodate all the people on here that can't get on or have there accounts closed . all they would have to do is deposit a few grand and ring you up for the bet

olias , do you realize how boring you are becoming due to your ignorance of bookmaker on course betting.
when it is 2.5 plenty on course are 6/4
when it is 2.62 again you can bet at 13/8 on course
when it is 2.76 plenty on course are 7/4
when it is 2.88 why not take 15/8 on course
when it is 3.00 you should take 2/1
all commission free and enough to satisfy everyone. it won't be on every board but enough to stop you having to run round

of course as you say when it is 80 you will have to make do with 66/1 but the place for an each way bet makes up for that
sorry , but you live in the past

on course bookie going bigger than the machine = needle in a haystack

adge, there is none so deaf as those that don't want to hear.

but matching the machine [ commission free ] is common place , tinkler

Matching the machine is not common place only a bookie desperate to keep his business going could say that.

Anybody that thinks matching the machine price is not common hasn't visited a racecourse for a long time

Bigger than the machine every race, dear oh dear I am starting to feel sorry for the bookmakers on here arguing their case. With these kind of sentiments being expressed they are not going to be taken very seriously.

I dont think they are taking you seriously either Olias,in fact they are having a good laugh at you and who could blame them.

only the short priced ones , olias , but don't worry , you're a pro punter so it shouldn't bother you

NEEDLE AVAILABLE IN LARGE BANGOR HAYSTACK TONIGHT,COME RACING

These 16+ runner hcaps dont occur very often. ie none today (5 meetings).It would be nice if you oncourse bookmakers could put a higher rate cap on the place percentages though.Say a conditions race or a claimer, 20+ runners, the place % would be in excess of 160% which is obviously ridiculous but not a problem eh.Maybe if you bet to 100% on the win book these type races might show a place % of less than 140.

some fall into the trap of thinking course books bet to those percentages , logistics , led by looking at the sp percentage.
the races you speak of are also rare but a number of course books do pay first four when they do. Cheltenham and royal ascot are good examples

FACTSMACHINES FIGHTING EM OFF TONIGHT AT BANGOR

i,m sure you do sometimes pay first 4 in these adge but somehow i think the 1/7th the odds bandits would just rub their hands in anticipation ! they may even dare to go correct odds a place in such races.In short some races the places are a "pr" loss leader, other races, each way  will be encouraged and lucrative.

that's why it pays to shop around as good offers are out there , generally on the back line. sometimes in 14/15 runner handicaps you can get 1/3rd odds each way but only rarely
I have to say though , I DON'T give these offers

Your arguments would be valid Logistics if punters bet equally on all races.  Unfortunately, on the loss leader races you are inundated with lumpy EW bets while on the races where it is in the bookies favour only the £1EW's play the places.

Olias. It's fairly easy to conclude youreally don't know what you're talking about. I notice Wasnot giving a very lucid and reasoned explanation as to your highlight of price differences bookies vs exchanges. You skirted around it because either the answer didn't suit, or more likely you're point is simply not worth the debate
Yes there are issues with on course Bookmakers- but so there are on exchanges. Tried getting more than a tenner on lately at 11am? A little perspective or just leave us in peace
Geoff Banks

It is official...

On course Bookmakers go bigger than the "machine".....

No problem then as Punters flock to Racecourses and lay off on Betfair.Free wi-fi should be a must even at the most remote of courses.....

HOMEFORTEA,WILL BE AT UTTOX TODAY AND CHESTER FOR THE 3 DAY MEET NEXT WEEK,"BIGGER THAN THE MACHINE"LOOK FORWARD TO MEETING U,COME RACING

http://community.betfair.com/horse_racing/go/thread/view/94102/29915623/corals-simon-clare-on-ruk

here you go on course bookmakers , there is a bit of business for you guys on this thread above .

glad to help

ttt for bookmakers and backers that can't get on

glad to help