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geoff banks article.
geoff banks article.
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1/ non regulated each way terms
2/ multiple pitch holders in one enclosure 3/ marketing fees in that order , johnny |
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Johnny
No1. Expenses. Paying for a worker to get through the gate and Annual Marketing Fee! Needless to me but profit for the Racecourse. No2. Place terms. Esp those who change the place terms when there is no need to do so. Pure selfish greed and disregard for those standing next to them. No3. Bookmakers who display a price but then have to look at a computer before saying yes to a bet. Or more than likely No! |
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1. Unlicensed bookmakers operating on multiple Schedule Y's
2. Marketing Fees 3. Each way terms being varied when not justified by the figures. |
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TheNorfolkMafia,
What an orator you are! Absolutely wasted on a f*cking forum like this! You say you started working on the racecourse in 1979! Same year as me!  |
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I would say that would be most of everybodys replies.....why don't we-you all get together and try to get something done make your own decisions instead of hoping that the people that carry the decisions agt gc bpas just sit back and do nothing to satisy the majority of all of you ....take it in your own hands and do a little now and then to make a visible protest ....but adge your on a committee so is your hand stied ....don't when you all meet give a to.ss,do you all suffer from apathy ,being a wealthy man as you are is a attitude off ,why bother ive got mine ,is that the attitude of most of you .....
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1. Conning the public with EW terms.
2. Expenses and being made to feel like a second class citizen by the courses when going in. 3. Being unable to compete with exchanges on level terms re taxation/levy/ex's. If I was allowed a fourth it would be blatant pitch renting. |
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The game's f*cked!
End of story! |
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We've been going since 1968 and in all that time people have been telling us the game's finished and we only have 5 years left etc.
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you only have to make one protest ......just one..........you light the torch paper and sit back and see what happens ,but it has to be effective ,because all ya doing is chasing your own tail ....surely u can see this cant ya ?????...........one good kick in the gut just so you make waves ,get whoevers out there to stand up and say WHOOSH what happened there .....and that is no books at a meeting .........the three main issues or 4-5-6 are still being banded about therll be banded about this year next year and so-on ....
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thanks for the compliments , johnny.
Geoff banks should be admired for his energy even if we don't all agree with everything 100% |
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I disagree with the loan system in soccer .....I believe u start of with ya squad of 22-32 players at the beginning of august and if your down to 16 through injurys and suspensions in febuarry that's tough cheese....whay should a team strengthen there sQuad with a under 21 international from Chelsea or man utd to help beat the likes off the smaller clubs .........AND ITS THE SAME OF BOOKMAKING U START OF AS A INDIVIDUAL BUT NO!!!! A LOT OF YOU ARE GOING OUT ON LOAN ...U DESTROY THE REST OF THE DIVISION CAUSE YOUVE GOT A QUALITY OFF ALLIES THATS BEEN BOUGHT IN TO HELP YOUR INDIVIDUAL TEAM .....
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skintofgreatyarmouth just because you have bailed out and sold out many including myself do not agree with your sentiments r.e the game is ****ed !if it is as bad as you say shortly you may be looking for altrnative employment !!!i still turn a decent profit year in year out or i wouldn't do it.can't think of a better way to spend my life in all honesty; being on the racecourse talking to my pals win lose or draw i enjoy/and still love every minute of it; far too many doom and gloom merchants in my opinion.pls sombody tell me why so many keep trying to talk our industry down you don't get all this negativity in other industries
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BECAUSE...........THEY LOVE THE JOB AS MUCH AS YOU DO FLASH AND ME AND EVERYONE OF US ......IM 1000000% CERTAIN THAT EVERYONE OF US MAN JACK TO A SOUL WANT TO SPEND THE WORKING DAYS ON A RACECOURSE THE BUZZ ,PUTTING THE KIT UP ,TALKING TO FIRMS AND THERE STAFF ,THE CAMADRIRIE ,(yeah I know it sounds corny)BETTING AWAY AFTER EACH RACE HOW YA GONE THERE SO-ON SO-ON END OF THE DAY ...GOT A FEW QUID WHERE YA TOMMORROW ,AND ALL THAT ...ITS LIKE TURNING UP AT YARMOUTH I HAVENT SEEN SOME OF YA FOR 5 MONTHS ....ITS ALL WHAT SOME OF US WANNA DO FLASH ....BUT SOME OF EM ARE STRUGGLING AND THERE WORRIED THAT THEY CANT SUSTAIN IT .....SO DOOM AND GLOOM SETS IN ....THERES PEOPLE OUT THERE FLASH THATS NOT AS WEALTHY AS YOU AND RELY ON THIS ..STILL AS THERE LIVING SO WHEN THINGS AINT GOING AS WELL AS THERE HOPING ......THEY GET DOOOOMEEE AND GLOOOOMEEE ......AND AS U SAY NEGATIVE
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Skinto has got it spot on...... If Racecourses did something to get people through the gate there is a chance ..... look at Huntingdon yesterday £5 spot on get people through the door, as people have said it should be a £5 every meeting apart from the Premier meets...... I can do my banking, check my pension, book a flight, listen to all my music, book a holiday ......... all on my phone...... and that is the generation the on-course books will be dealing with in 10 years time.......... times change lads
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And I can go to any Jockeyclub Racecourse from 2014 and access everything I want at the same speed as my home computer..... The recent fee structure put in place looks more suicidal with everyday that passes.......
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flash bookie,
You are correct, i did sell my Aintree pitch, (sadly, given the results), not because i don't love the game as much as you do, not because i didn't want to be there, (after betting on 33 Grand Nationals), but because i calculated the expenses for the 3 day Aintree Festival at £2138! Watching it on TV, was the saddest day of my bookmaking career! |
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Watching this years GN on C4 was the saddest spectacle I've viewed of the race /build up in the 50 years I've watched it.
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1.Ban hedging into exchanges.
2.Bring back standard e.w terms. 3.Reps should work regularly for the firm they are repping. Agree with wasnot about how some racecourses look upon us as 2nd class citizens,although would quite happily work with them to stop the "Jimming in". My 4th would be to scrap the unfair 1-1 ratio in new areas and I benefit from that at the moment. |
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if I had a fourth it would be to see the back of robin grossmith from any and every position of "power"
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A few points, I would agree with Adge on the 3 points and add 1
1. Pitch renting 2. Novicey bookmakers/traders turning up once a fortnight on a saturday 3. standard place (modified gold flag terms) 4. Robin to listen and bend to wishes of his membership, rather than go it alone approach. No he's not always wrong and I'm not always right. But has to listen. 5. Schdule y abuse I would work with racetracks to improve our business. I recognise it's not the be al end all tonic. It's a move towards sanity and necessary to engage their power to force little operators to heel. After all, why is it the smallest denominator, paying £100 for a pitch, should dictate to a man investing 30 grand on a pitch and devaluing his business? Finally - I would hope that business with tracks would be conducted on a voluntary basis- rather than flat out imposition. They're ready to do that now as I see it- if we don't agree to change best wishes Geoff Banks |
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Lots of very good points on this thread,but,as we all know, there is absolutely no chance whatsoever of a consensus view forming amongst bookmakers on just about ANY topic.The ONLY way to get change is for the racecourses to impose their will on bookmakers and how they operate.Epsom have started the ball rolling by insisting that Hill operators bet to standard place terms...this at least suggests that they recognise that there are problems,and have the will to act given the opportunity.As I have previously suggested,what is needed are REPRESENTATIVE committees at every racecourse made up of nominated bookmakers from every ring at that individual track.In my opinion, what should happen is that on every issue i.e place terms, a vote should be taken by every pitch holder in that ring , and if a healthy majority..say 75%...Is achieved in favour of a particular motion, then the racecourses should see that as a clear mandate to amend license terms and conditions that apply to ALL.
For a number of reasons,cash turnover will decline in the ring over the coming years, the current system of pitch fee based on entrance price is just totally unsustainable in the long term for just about everybody, the only way for most of us to maintain a sustainable business is to have an expense regime mainly based on turnover, and most definitely not a figure that increasingly bears no relation whatsoever to the number of people turning up with the intention of having a bet with the on course bookmakers. |
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and what are the chances of no 4 happening , sports
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Surely most of you are missing the main reason that the ring is in decline, it is totally outdated in present day gambling. You are the 2013 version of the 1980's miners in that your profession is becoming obsolete so the history of the profession just counts for nothing.
In basic terms a huge % of you are arbers, pure and simple. I can sit at home and bet at bigger odds, better place terms and have the odd offer, BOG etc thrown in. Instead of moaning about the ring dying you should all be taking the responsibility for it dying imo as the ones that wont lay a bet unless they can nick 10/20% above it on the exchanges are just middlemen and half decent punters that might have a few quid on are just cutting out the middleman and betting elsewhere. What is it that you are moaning about, your profession is dying because most have decided to just nick a few % per bet instead of sticking up your market and trying to turn over as much as you can safe in the knowledge that long term you will always have % working for you and should make money. ie bookmaking. Find is quite ridiculous really that basically arbers are now complaining that all the free money they are getting isn't enough to keep em going when they have mostly chosen to work that way. ps, I saw the RP supplement yesterday and thought this is going to be a load of old catchphrase bollox from an on course layer. Hats of to Banks for laying it out as it is, basically the reason for the decline is simple, you don't have a service that is needed by decent punters anymore. Yet you are doing your best to put people off betting with you, what is your USP, what is the point of coming racing to get scalped on every bet by a money mover? What is it that you are all moaning about when you have created this situation yourselves? |
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Adge. No 4. Ehm, problem here appears Robin spent too many years doing things his own way. This is not to say he has made a series of poor decisions. Not at all. However, he plays cards close to his chest and if there's a failing, it's in seeking to run the association as a fiefdom. I won't let that happen. Either he bends to majority view, or he's removed or I am. Hopefully he will see reason. He's no fool so I'm assuming he will choose moderation over confrontation Adge
Mr Fu. Couldn't agree with you more |
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ADGE - So the representation is not representative at all ?.....you dont say !
SPORTSADVISOR - you want racecourses to 'engage their power to force little operators to heel'.........i'm a 'little' operator who bets standard terms and give my customers excellent service.....In what way should I be brought to 'heel' ?...I can name several so called 'big time operators' who definitely should be brought to 'heel'...but then again, i'm sure we all can....it's not that hard is it ? |
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Mugs, you've answered your own question. There's Bookies who need brought to heel, be they small or large. If it's not imposed however, you're a million
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How many of the oncourse bookies would lay a horse to take out £10k? If, for example it was 7.6 on here for a couple of hundred and I was willing to take 6/1?
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SPORTSADVISOR - I'M ALREADY A MILLION...LOTS OF TATTS PITCHES BOUGHT FOR GRANDS 15 YEARS AGO......NOW £100 PITCHES.....BRINGING TO 'HEEL' NOT QUITE THE RIGHT TERM.....BUT AGREE, THERE NEEDS TO BE CHANGE, BUT CHANGE THAT REFLECTS THE MAJORITY VIEW,WHATEVER THAT MAY BE.....NOT JUST THE GEOFF BANKS VIEW....THAT'S FAIR SURELY ?
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frog - not many I suspect. At Exeter recently I asked two bookmakers for a £500/£60 (hardly a King's Ransome) and was refused on the pretext "we don't do fractions". However this excuse was only advanced after a quick check of the machine.
I go racing two or three times a week and truly the standard of bookmaking has never been lower. |
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PARISPIKE/FROG - BOOKMAKERS USED TO HAVE TO DISPLAY THEIR MAXIMUM LIABILITY....SADLY,ONE OF THE BETTER IDEAS THAT HAS FALLEN BY THE WAYSIDE.
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Yes that was a good idea mug. Why was it discontinued?
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Think from a security issue Paris
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NOT REALLY SURE, ADGE MIGHT KNOW...BUT A LOT OF VERY NEGATIVE THINGS HAVE HAPPENED TO THE BETTING RING SINCE THE THE INCEPTION OF THE 2005 GAMBLING ACT....AN ACT THAT WAS ADVANCED TO CONTROL NON BUILT MEGA CASINOS, HAS WREAKED HAVOC WITH MANY ASPECTS OF GAMBLING THAT FUNCTIONED PERFECTLY WELL PREVIOUSLY.
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this was a rule change a couple of years ago when a few bookmakers in the Leicester area had safety problems. it was deemed that the larger liability signs were being noted by the wrong element of society
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THANKS FOR THAT ADGE.....THERE YOU GO PARIS......THE CRIMINAL MINORITY WIN AGAIN !
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Frog in answer to your question,firstly it would depend where you are,festivals no problem for plenty,elsewhere not many,the probem being what money you can field against it? Not much use standing one for 3 or 4k when the next race you struggle to take a monkey,quick way to the poor house.
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Fair enough RR. Hadnt considered that tbf
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That doesn't make much sense,because everyone would know that bookmakers have to come out with a chunk of readies,regardless of whether you have a liability sign up,or not.Although some wouldn't come out with much,but a would be criminal won't know either way.
In a criminal's mind bookmaker=cash. |
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Also re the liability sign, I don't think anything happened to those who abused it,it was basically window dressing.
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It gave the punter grounds to lodge a complaint when knocked back.A necessary sign,and would favour the decent layers,IF they kept to their own terms.Should have been kept in use.
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