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Why is this Mr.Hunt??All the talk about the improved WI FI at courses or is there going to be an extension to 1 sec. delay??
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agreed, worried sick
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sarcasm Andy??
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NO
 in running is pish poor comparedd to even a year ago the aways are so hard |
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Liquidity ya mean??Excuse my ignorance but what are aways??=Expenses??
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away meetings ?
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Must cost a fortune in overheads.
How far do people travel ? |
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yes away meetings...never found ruk turf tracks so hard to play i guess liquidity is very poor so you basically HAVE to get it right first time or do your brains in....the days of backing the danger in second at a backable price seem long gone...could be me like but don;t think so lots of people i know who did well now struggling
PREMIUM CHARGE TO BLAME 1.01 |
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all over country salmon ....costs a small fortune and as mr hunt will tell you its easier but not that easy
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Oh Right-I presume the RUK delay being reduced has had an impact??It's only about 1 sec slower now??
Question for ya Andy,in the "corporate boxes" is internet connection wi fi?? What internet connection do on course books use??Are a lot of them playing in ruuning?? |
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returns simply crashed....trade far more sports now....
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the liquidity is non existant...only the good track players will get a decent living from in running..the trading shops are finished..sis is totally impossibe and even the 1 sec ruk delay feels like 5....game over it was good while it lasted..
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nowt to do with ruk speeding up imo..but maybe the players at home now are not so diadvantaged but its the track players now at all tracks that makes it harder plus markets are thinner and theres no juice at the business end like there used to be
most are hard wired, some are wifi/dongle hth |
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no dj a most now are hard wired..
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betfair have to take some responsibility as the living blood is being sucked out of the in running products and the money isn't going back into the game as people are paying too much in premium charge
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Thanks lads.U'd be at nothing so playing with MI FI/Dongle??
Not ways around getting a fresh account and keep the implied commission rate over the threshold? |
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Joined: 01 Feb 08 | Topic/replies: 394 | Blogger: frog2's blog
Interest to read what Mark Davies (part of the Betfair founder management team and head of PR when the PC came in) has written on his blog on this: Take the premium charge, for example. Someone mailed to ask me about it yesterday, and pointed out that I was quoted, when we introduced it, as saying that it was needed, because without it the cost of acquisition was not matched by the lifetime value of a customer: too much of the money taken from a customer who would then churn away went directly into the pocket of a small number of other clients. I said then that any business that got to where we were would have to introduce the same thing, because otherwise the revenue gained didn’t match the cost of acquiring the customer, which was an obvious road to the poorhouse. All that was true. But what my comments, and our strategy, probably didn’t take fully into account was why the cost of acquisition (which was so much lower than other gambling businesses) was rising (or why the network effects were diminishing); or the fact that a consequent drop in the number of advocates meant in turn that the cost of acquisition would go up at the same time as liquidity went down – creating a spiral which was going the wrong way. Replacing the lost revenue means increasing the tax on the people who are making the money, which in turn means more of them fall away, and the cycle continues. Observers of the broader economy will recognise the pattern. You can read his who article on the proposed takeover at: http://www.markxdavies.com/ read that article explains what i've been saying since PC was brought in....tax the bigger players more the ecosystem (in running) becomes weaker and weaker till you're just left with empty boxes |
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thers ways if you dont nned a lot in your account to operate but your still on 20% after winning a grand..
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no surprise that liquidity is suffering and steves right....ruk now levl or ahead of turf many would say would improve liquidity massively...truth is it has not at all.....worrying.....means the players playing against each other will play the same regardless of pic speed and its mainly pro vs pro/semi pro....no mugs left
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Replacing the lost revenue means increasing the tax on the people who are making the money, which in turn means more of them fall away, and the cycle continues. Observers of the broader economy will recognise the pattern.
the economy is in recession not many people who work in normal jobs have much spare cash to use for gambling and they're not gonna use it to play in running against pros....those who get taxed heavily are winning less than before and taking home a pittance compared to a few years ago as exes are much higher and pc was not in operation b4....viscious circle...and betfair making far too much on the x matching skimming bot....all leads to harder in running game |
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i know a top in running punter was was playing ascot on atr and clicking coming to the last fence whilst 7 seconds behind live...mind boggling it was
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i know alot of guys who are struggling or on the edge and a fair few who have gone skint that were full timers for years up n til about 18 months ago!!! so mark davies is spot on
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better than that hexham feed
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By all accounts there are still plenty getting a decent living playing turf in exchange shops so
those live players who have gone skint are either completely useless or spanking the cash off on other sports. |
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by all accounts? hearsay
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a few years ago MullahOmar you could "afford" to spunk cash as the nest few days you'd get your head down and win in running the money you had lost...now the game is much tougher...and its simply bcos liquidity is much lower and the people you're playing against much better and more knowledgeable...
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Looking at totals matched the decline started in Jan 2011. That was when yearly averages peaked at just under £8m a day (win and place horseracing inplay worldwide). Since that date they have declined on a straight line to £7m a day.
This is still the level that was there in Jan 2010 but at that point it was on an upward curve. In mid-2006 it was only £4m a day. These are totals matched though. You might find less mugs leaving money up to be robbed so you are getting more on at lower prices. The market fundamentally unfair. My only surprise is that it has taken so long for this to happen. It is the only market where the delay is shorter than the picture delay. The rate people won on here courtsiding it is one of the key reasons we are now all facing the Premium Charge. |
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Have a view and play pre race is the only option these days, just have to be right more often.
The ir phenomenon of a few yrs ago has been gone ages tbh. Zero mug money in markets , all the short priced clickers trying to beat each other to an ever declining piece of pie, gone, long gone. |
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Simples. Winners need losers. Losers have departed (variety of reasons but economic climate doesn't help). Only surprise to me is that it lasted so long.....could never understand why some people were prepared to bet with the knowledge that others had an inbuilt advantage against them.
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Two things are responsible for the decline on In Running Betting on here.
First and foremost is the Worldwide Recession which has removed much of the cash from the casual/mug punter who helped to fill the Pools. Second,BF's unbridled greed in PC Charges which are applied to pre race punters as well which has driven many away and sent just as many skint. The Market totals are utter bullshat,imo. As Waza and others have said,"there is £3 by £4 available unless you are wrong when you will be matched. Long gone are the days when the "boxes on here" were full up on all runners. When 5.0 was showing available a fair way out I stuck up a £200 Lay @ 10.0 and got the princely sum of £6 matched with nobody trying to get in front of me. As the OP said,"the game is gone". |
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there are other factors why in-running may be declining .
more on course players , so those that use to have a big advantage and get better value price are now missing the value prices and having to share profits . bots are being programmed better to play against the in-running punters , it's not surprising when you look at the graph after a race that horses only go down to set prices where even a few months ago they would trade much shorter . players are getting better . |
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Lots of ill informed rubbish here.
Roo RUK is 1 second behind the live action, the delay in 1 second! Harold - `it's not surprising when you look at the graph after a race that horses only go down to set prices where even a few months ago they would trade much shorter.' What on earth are you on about? That would mean it used to be harder because lots of punters were taking too short prices! The game is a long, long way from being dead. If Frogs stats are correct the markets have simply matured back to what they were in 2010. |
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`it's not surprising when you look at the graph after a race that horses only go down to set prices where even a few months ago they would trade much shorter.'
what if you are a layer , would that make sense to you ? |
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No. I would like to see evidence that laying at certain prices has suddenly become more unprofitable in recent months.
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I don't keep records , its just what I have observed . although someone that does keep records may prove me wrong .
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Mullah,
What is not up for debate is the lack of liquidity. The game may not be "dead" but,it is far from healthy. |
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it's not surprising when you look at the graph after a race that horses only go down to set prices where even a few months ago they would trade much shorter
what I meant by this is that it may be only 1 or 2 bots that are laying big ammounts at 2.0 and taking all the possible lays by in-runners below 2.0 , instead of letting the price fall to 1.7 or so . |
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If that was the case then isnt there clearly a big edge in the market for backing and you should be doing that.
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I haven't said whether I back or lay , I was just pointing out why it may appear that in-running is declining
more on course players , so those that use to have a big advantage and get better value price are now missing the value prices and having to share profits . bots are being programmed better to play against the in-running punters , it's not surprising when you look at the graph after a race that horses only go down to set prices where even a few months ago they would trade much shorter . players are getting better |