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04 Apr 13
22:17
Joined:
Date Joined:
05 Jan 10
like Mick Philpott, claims George Osborne
Chancellor spoke out after father-of-17 was jailed for life over fire which killed six of his children
Philpott tried to frame former lover in sick bid to win custody of other children and get bigger council house
Osborne says 'question for government and for society' about the benefits that fuelled his lifestyle
Labour MPs accuse him of making political capital out of tragedy
By Simon Tomlinson
http://www.dailymail.co.uk
BENEFITS BREAKDOWN: HOW MICK PHILPOTT RAKED IN NEARLY £68,000
Child benefit
Philpott: £20.30 a week for eldest son, £13.40 for the other ten. Yearly total: £8,023.60p
Working tax credits
Mairead: Up to £20,560 a year for her six children
Lisa Willis: Up to £17,870 for her five children
Estimated earnings from their cleaning jobs: £14,000
Yearly total: £38,430
Housing benefit Philpott: £150 a week
Yearly total: £7,800
ESTIMATED GRAND TOTAL: £68,000
This is the approximate take-home pay of someone earning £100,000
Chancellor George Osborne has linked the case of child-killing layabout Mick Philpott to the need for reform of the benefits system, questioning why taxpayers were funding 'lifestyles like that'.
Mr Osborne, who has been leading the Government’s defence of its sweeping welfare changes, stressed that Philpott was responsible for his 'absolutely horrendous' crimes.
But he said there was a 'question for government and for society' about the benefits that allowed Philpott to live the way he did.
Philpott, who was jailed for life with a minimum term of 15 years today for killing six of his children, lived in a council house in Derby, claimed thousands of pounds in benefit and refused to get a job.
When asked on a visit to Derby if the Philpotts were a product of Britain’s benefit system, Mr Osborne said: 'Philpott is responsible for these absolutely horrendous crimes, these are crimes that have shocked the nation. The courts are responsible for sentencing.
'But I think there is a question for government and for society about the welfare state, and the taxpayers who pay for the welfare state, subsidising lifestyles like that. And I think that debate needs to be had.'
Critics have attacked the Government’s wholesale changes to the welfare system which enter into force this month.
Earlier this week the Chancellor hit back at opponents of the changes, accusing them of talking 'ill-informed rubbish'.
In the face of growing pressure from churches, charities and opposition parties, Mr Osborne said suggestions the changes marked the end of the welfare state were 'shrill, headline-seeking nonsense'.
With the Government keen to reduce the welfare bill, a raft of changes are being introduced this month, including an average £14-a-week cut in housing benefit for council tenants deemed to have a spare room - dubbed the 'bedroom tax' by opponents
Wider welfare and tax changes will also see council tax benefit funding cut, and working-age benefits and tax credit rises pegged at 1 per cent - well below inflation - for three years.
Disability living allowance (DLA) is being replaced by the personal independence payment (PIP), while trials are due to begin in four London boroughs of a £500-a-week cap on household benefits, and of the new Universal Credit system.
Labour MP Andy McDonald accused Mr Osborne of trying to make to make political capital out of the Philpott case.
The Middlesbrough MP said the Chancellor’s comments were a 'total disgrace' and the case was entirely separate from the wider debate about welfare.
He said: 'It just demonstrates how out of touch George Osborne is. He may as well make adverse comments about the entire population of a town or a religion, it’s absolute nonsense.
'It just shows the depths to which they are prepared to stoop in demonising people who find themselves in difficult circumstances.'
The debate over the welfare system is a 'completely separate discussion, it should not be had in the context of the most appalling crime of a father killing his six children', he said.
Labour’s Dame Anne Begg, who chairs the Commons Work and Pensions Select Committee, told BBC Radio 4’s World At One: 'It was an evil act and I don’t think we should be making policy on the back of a very exceptional case.'
Shadow minister without portfolio Lord Wood, a senior adviser to Labour leader Ed Miliband, said on Twitter: 'I can’t help but feel it’s wrong for Osborne to exploit our horror at the Philpott case to try to boost public support for cutting welfare.'
Asked whether he thought the Philpotts were indicative of the type of people on benefits, Mr Osborne said again that there was 'a debate' to be had and added that the Government was acting on what he called 'these kinds of lifestyles'.
The Philpott fire deaths provoked massive debate across the UK yesterday and today, with internet messages boards - including MailOnline - dominated with discussions about the whether the welfare system was to blame for the tragedy.
During a tour of Marston’s Brewery in Burton-on-Trent, Staffordshire, he said: 'I think the question for Government and society, if you like, is a broader one about the welfare state and a question we ask on behalf of the taxpayer about whether we should be subsidising these kinds of lifestyles.
'We will be taking steps under this Government - for example, a cap on benefits so no family out of work gets more than a family in work, and that cap is set at £26,000.
'We’ve already taken important steps and we’re taking further steps this month to make sure benefits don’t go up faster than wages.
'But, I think there’s a debate to be had, and that debate is now under way.'
Shadow work and pensions minister Stephen Timms accused Mr Osborne of acting 'cynically'
He said: 'Mick Philpott’s crimes were terrible. Everyone should be clear that responsibility for these evil acts rests with him and the others sentenced today.
'It is wrong to link those acts with the debate about welfare and George Osborne should not be doing so, even implicitly.
'Millions of people including pensioners and the disabled, people in work and out of work, receive benefits and tax credits.
'The Government needs to recognise that they are as shocked and disgusted by the callous killing of these children as anyone else in Britain.
'We need action to tackle the scourge of long term-unemployment, which is why Labour is calling for a compulsory jobs guarantee, but today is not the day to seek to divide people in this way and Mr Osborne should not be cynically doing so.'
Unite general secretary Len McCluskey said: 'It is sickening to see George Osborne exploiting the evil of one man and the death of six children to try and demonise ordinary law-abiding people who are struggling to get by.
'He has demeaned his high office to sow hate in a desperate attempt to sell his so-called ‘reforms’ which are making 11.5 million households poorer while millionaires get tax breaks averaging £100,000.
'Evil exists in all sections of society from the wealthy to the poor. You have to ask would George Osborne and the Tories be seeking to demonise the wealthy with the same vigour if Philpott had been a millionaire?'
Chancellor spoke out after father-of-17 was jailed for life over fire which killed six of his children
Philpott tried to frame former lover in sick bid to win custody of other children and get bigger council house
Osborne says 'question for government and for society' about the benefits that fuelled his lifestyle
Labour MPs accuse him of making political capital out of tragedy
By Simon Tomlinson
http://www.dailymail.co.uk
BENEFITS BREAKDOWN: HOW MICK PHILPOTT RAKED IN NEARLY £68,000
Child benefit
Philpott: £20.30 a week for eldest son, £13.40 for the other ten. Yearly total: £8,023.60p
Working tax credits
Mairead: Up to £20,560 a year for her six children
Lisa Willis: Up to £17,870 for her five children
Estimated earnings from their cleaning jobs: £14,000
Yearly total: £38,430
Housing benefit Philpott: £150 a week
Yearly total: £7,800
ESTIMATED GRAND TOTAL: £68,000
This is the approximate take-home pay of someone earning £100,000
Chancellor George Osborne has linked the case of child-killing layabout Mick Philpott to the need for reform of the benefits system, questioning why taxpayers were funding 'lifestyles like that'.
Mr Osborne, who has been leading the Government’s defence of its sweeping welfare changes, stressed that Philpott was responsible for his 'absolutely horrendous' crimes.
But he said there was a 'question for government and for society' about the benefits that allowed Philpott to live the way he did.
Philpott, who was jailed for life with a minimum term of 15 years today for killing six of his children, lived in a council house in Derby, claimed thousands of pounds in benefit and refused to get a job.
When asked on a visit to Derby if the Philpotts were a product of Britain’s benefit system, Mr Osborne said: 'Philpott is responsible for these absolutely horrendous crimes, these are crimes that have shocked the nation. The courts are responsible for sentencing.
'But I think there is a question for government and for society about the welfare state, and the taxpayers who pay for the welfare state, subsidising lifestyles like that. And I think that debate needs to be had.'
Critics have attacked the Government’s wholesale changes to the welfare system which enter into force this month.
Earlier this week the Chancellor hit back at opponents of the changes, accusing them of talking 'ill-informed rubbish'.
In the face of growing pressure from churches, charities and opposition parties, Mr Osborne said suggestions the changes marked the end of the welfare state were 'shrill, headline-seeking nonsense'.
With the Government keen to reduce the welfare bill, a raft of changes are being introduced this month, including an average £14-a-week cut in housing benefit for council tenants deemed to have a spare room - dubbed the 'bedroom tax' by opponents
Wider welfare and tax changes will also see council tax benefit funding cut, and working-age benefits and tax credit rises pegged at 1 per cent - well below inflation - for three years.
Disability living allowance (DLA) is being replaced by the personal independence payment (PIP), while trials are due to begin in four London boroughs of a £500-a-week cap on household benefits, and of the new Universal Credit system.
Labour MP Andy McDonald accused Mr Osborne of trying to make to make political capital out of the Philpott case.
The Middlesbrough MP said the Chancellor’s comments were a 'total disgrace' and the case was entirely separate from the wider debate about welfare.
He said: 'It just demonstrates how out of touch George Osborne is. He may as well make adverse comments about the entire population of a town or a religion, it’s absolute nonsense.
'It just shows the depths to which they are prepared to stoop in demonising people who find themselves in difficult circumstances.'
The debate over the welfare system is a 'completely separate discussion, it should not be had in the context of the most appalling crime of a father killing his six children', he said.
Labour’s Dame Anne Begg, who chairs the Commons Work and Pensions Select Committee, told BBC Radio 4’s World At One: 'It was an evil act and I don’t think we should be making policy on the back of a very exceptional case.'
Shadow minister without portfolio Lord Wood, a senior adviser to Labour leader Ed Miliband, said on Twitter: 'I can’t help but feel it’s wrong for Osborne to exploit our horror at the Philpott case to try to boost public support for cutting welfare.'
Asked whether he thought the Philpotts were indicative of the type of people on benefits, Mr Osborne said again that there was 'a debate' to be had and added that the Government was acting on what he called 'these kinds of lifestyles'.
The Philpott fire deaths provoked massive debate across the UK yesterday and today, with internet messages boards - including MailOnline - dominated with discussions about the whether the welfare system was to blame for the tragedy.
During a tour of Marston’s Brewery in Burton-on-Trent, Staffordshire, he said: 'I think the question for Government and society, if you like, is a broader one about the welfare state and a question we ask on behalf of the taxpayer about whether we should be subsidising these kinds of lifestyles.
'We will be taking steps under this Government - for example, a cap on benefits so no family out of work gets more than a family in work, and that cap is set at £26,000.
'We’ve already taken important steps and we’re taking further steps this month to make sure benefits don’t go up faster than wages.
'But, I think there’s a debate to be had, and that debate is now under way.'
Shadow work and pensions minister Stephen Timms accused Mr Osborne of acting 'cynically'
He said: 'Mick Philpott’s crimes were terrible. Everyone should be clear that responsibility for these evil acts rests with him and the others sentenced today.
'It is wrong to link those acts with the debate about welfare and George Osborne should not be doing so, even implicitly.
'Millions of people including pensioners and the disabled, people in work and out of work, receive benefits and tax credits.
'The Government needs to recognise that they are as shocked and disgusted by the callous killing of these children as anyone else in Britain.
'We need action to tackle the scourge of long term-unemployment, which is why Labour is calling for a compulsory jobs guarantee, but today is not the day to seek to divide people in this way and Mr Osborne should not be cynically doing so.'
Unite general secretary Len McCluskey said: 'It is sickening to see George Osborne exploiting the evil of one man and the death of six children to try and demonise ordinary law-abiding people who are struggling to get by.
'He has demeaned his high office to sow hate in a desperate attempt to sell his so-called ‘reforms’ which are making 11.5 million households poorer while millionaires get tax breaks averaging £100,000.
'Evil exists in all sections of society from the wealthy to the poor. You have to ask would George Osborne and the Tories be seeking to demonise the wealthy with the same vigour if Philpott had been a millionaire?'
Show More
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/319911845773316096/photo/1 
Not all unemployed are layabouts and it IS hardship if you don't want to be there
But im sure we all know folk who have never done a days work in their lives or lazy single mums who get paid by taxpayers to sit drinking iron brew and watching Jeremy kyle instead of trying to better their kids lives
But its the most abused system in Europe and has been for years and years , well done the tory government for tackling it head on
But im sure we all know folk who have never done a days work in their lives or lazy single mums who get paid by taxpayers to sit drinking iron brew and watching Jeremy kyle instead of trying to better their kids lives
But its the most abused system in Europe and has been for years and years , well done the tory government for tackling it head on
Philpotts is a nasty psycho and the fact that he was on benefits had nothing to do with that.
He may have partly hatched his plan to get extra money but what about the upper middle-class Jeremy Bamber who murdered much of his family for their money. Not to mention the guy recently who tried to drown his parents for their house and killed them eventually. Osborne`s little tirade is nauseating rubbish intended to demonise ( mainly ) decent people who they are victimising to pay for their tax cut.
He may have partly hatched his plan to get extra money but what about the upper middle-class Jeremy Bamber who murdered much of his family for their money. Not to mention the guy recently who tried to drown his parents for their house and killed them eventually. Osborne`s little tirade is nauseating rubbish intended to demonise ( mainly ) decent people who they are victimising to pay for their tax cut.
it is disgusting to label all benefit claimants
to scum like the Philpotts imo...
this family are criminals
There are plenty of other abuses and waste in our society that the government has no interest in dealing with
the compensation culture for one
fighting wars for America which we cant actually afford
(If we want to sort somewhere out, how about Zimbabwe? that is one of ours..or used to be)
and generally creating a get something for nothing culture
which permeates our society from top to bottom
to scum like the Philpotts imo...
this family are criminals
There are plenty of other abuses and waste in our society that the government has no interest in dealing with
the compensation culture for one
fighting wars for America which we cant actually afford
(If we want to sort somewhere out, how about Zimbabwe? that is one of ours..or used to be)
and generally creating a get something for nothing culture
which permeates our society from top to bottom
well said ebulGery
a lot of top jobs pay expenses (another word for benefits)
the 2nd home scandal was swept under the carpet--to many top MPs
a lot of top jobs pay expenses (another word for benefits)
the 2nd home scandal was swept under the carpet--to many top MPs
AD when are you gonna give it a rest, regurgitating this carp from the DM???
Do you just take some kind of perverse pleasure in stirring the shiit among the English, from your cosy home in the republic?
You´re making yourself look a right c nut. Stick to racing stories.
Do you just take some kind of perverse pleasure in stirring the shiit among the English, from your cosy home in the republic?
You´re making yourself look a right c nut. Stick to racing stories.
Weak Associations, forms of mass-hysteria towards weaker and stronger perceived groups and other forms
of manipulative behavior or typical of most modern political control methods deployed via the modern
power of the media by a person or persons in a position of power.
The same type of behavior though used throughout the life of a circa 2000 modern cro-magon human is mostly
learned and used at an early point in life and is indeed part of the ID system as described by fraud
and also more prevalent at the ego stage or state of development.
It is not considered by most intellectuals that this behavior is acceptable at the super-ego stage of
maturity as most adults that have learned to look after fellow humans as is the state of parenthood, learn that
to constantly attend to the needs of a child, person or government is not thought the correct pathway to
adult maturity with a fuller understanding of group support,social and co-operation skills .
My point being that the spoiled and petty behavior of a few in power that wish to use others for there own means
is just as bad as the thread case if not more so as it affects far more people and instills a great loss of group stability
and care within society and all to bolster the failing egos of under performing out dated political ideologies.
The only country in the world now that is able to produce the rest of the worlds products is in fact a socialist
one as it seems that capitalism reaches a point where by the rich cant get any richer without complete making the country
in operable in the global market place.
It is the greater indifference in national market isolation and class division that creates more problems than any one
member and his or her abilities to perform any task or job to help the Eco-system or the individuals means of life
support and unless leaders, owners of wealth, nations, political and business groups don't create a new system and control
the increasing growth demands of member countries the whole system will one day collapse under the strain, the inability
to trade with out constant growth and biased exchanged and interest rates and the intolerance towards individuals
differences that will result in exaggerated greater or worsened positions and conflicts will arise and increase.
In other words humans stop hiding in your religious, political, fiscal and power strengthened groups
and work something out as it only needs a little change to make a big difference to our futures and the planet
that we share with many other species that deserve that we do it soon and do it right before its too late.
Good night!
of manipulative behavior or typical of most modern political control methods deployed via the modern
power of the media by a person or persons in a position of power.
The same type of behavior though used throughout the life of a circa 2000 modern cro-magon human is mostly
learned and used at an early point in life and is indeed part of the ID system as described by fraud
and also more prevalent at the ego stage or state of development.
It is not considered by most intellectuals that this behavior is acceptable at the super-ego stage of
maturity as most adults that have learned to look after fellow humans as is the state of parenthood, learn that
to constantly attend to the needs of a child, person or government is not thought the correct pathway to
adult maturity with a fuller understanding of group support,social and co-operation skills .
My point being that the spoiled and petty behavior of a few in power that wish to use others for there own means
is just as bad as the thread case if not more so as it affects far more people and instills a great loss of group stability
and care within society and all to bolster the failing egos of under performing out dated political ideologies.
The only country in the world now that is able to produce the rest of the worlds products is in fact a socialist
one as it seems that capitalism reaches a point where by the rich cant get any richer without complete making the country
in operable in the global market place.
It is the greater indifference in national market isolation and class division that creates more problems than any one
member and his or her abilities to perform any task or job to help the Eco-system or the individuals means of life
support and unless leaders, owners of wealth, nations, political and business groups don't create a new system and control
the increasing growth demands of member countries the whole system will one day collapse under the strain, the inability
to trade with out constant growth and biased exchanged and interest rates and the intolerance towards individuals
differences that will result in exaggerated greater or worsened positions and conflicts will arise and increase.
In other words humans stop hiding in your religious, political, fiscal and power strengthened groups
and work something out as it only needs a little change to make a big difference to our futures and the planet
that we share with many other species that deserve that we do it soon and do it right before its too late.
Good night!
It seems that the left and right or the center is not the way forward as it will need a third arm to work the immense
problem out, the only probable solution is not any ideology but some form of artificial intelligence control method
as we mere humans are not designed to work this massive problem out without artificial aid...
We all really do need big brother and I don't mean the tv show
problem out, the only probable solution is not any ideology but some form of artificial intelligence control method
as we mere humans are not designed to work this massive problem out without artificial aid...
We all really do need big brother and I don't mean the tv show
No, just like to stretch by neurons before I spend many hours creating, its a limbering up process
not much point in limbering up if you're already a few limbs short .... imo
says a non owner of any reasonable problem solving skills other than the ability to precision throw fruit from her tree...
and you missed
and you missed
you'd be amazed how wrong you can be on so many different levels bf, sometimes you should take a step back and engage your brain for a few minutes before you type
the only probable solution is not any ideology but some form of artificial intelligence control method
as we mere humans are not designed to work this massive problem out without artificial aid...
You think we should be governed by an AI system bf..no doubt developed on your excel spreadsheets
the sad truth is that such is the apalling quality of governments we get now
we would not notice the difference
as we mere humans are not designed to work this massive problem out without artificial aid...
You think we should be governed by an AI system bf..no doubt developed on your excel spreadsheets
the sad truth is that such is the apalling quality of governments we get now
we would not notice the difference
I am amazed how you can see b/f is so wrong on any many different levels elise
I can never understand a word of what he is talking about
I can never understand a word of what he is talking about
Was it not a former Tory that helped him make a TV programme a few year ago and would have got a tidy sum for this.
So they helped fund his lifestyle and made him the celeb he craved to be
Yep it was Ann Widdecombe who won't have done it for nothing.
xmoneyx 04 Apr 13 23:14
prince Andrew 250k a year
think the fat heeded user is unpaid, that 5k a week is "expenses"
prince Andrew 250k a year
think the fat heeded user is unpaid, that 5k a week is "expenses"
PM Backs Osborne Over Philpott Case Comments
David Cameron echoes George Osborne, who questioned whether the state should pay for the lifestyles of people like Mick Philpott.
skynews.com 3:57pm UK, Friday 05 April 2013
The Prime Minister says Osborne was right to raise the welfare debate
David Cameron has endorsed comments made by Chancellor George Osborne who linked the Mick Philpott case to the Government's benefits shake-up.
Mr Osborne questioned whether the taxpayer should subsidise the "lifestyles" of people like convicted child killer Philpott.
The unemployed 56-year-old, who claimed thousands of pounds in benefits, was jailed for life this week for killing six of his children in a fire at their Derby home in May last year.
Speaking from his constituency, the Prime Minister said: "I think what George Osborne said was absolutely right. He said that Mr Philpott was the one to blame for his crimes and he should be held responsible.
"But what the Chancellor went on to say is we should ask some wider questions about our welfare system - how much it costs and the signals that it sends.
"And we do want to make clear that welfare is there to help people who work hard - it shouldn't be there as a sort of lifestyle choice, and I think that's entirely legitimate."
Mr Osborne was on a visit to Derby earlier this week when he was asked if the Philpott family, who lived off £60,000 in benefits a year, were a product of Britain's welfare system.
Though did not agree that they were, he sparked a political row by not categorically denying the suggestion.
He said: "Philpott is responsible for these absolutely horrendous crimes, these are crimes that have shocked the nation.
"The courts are responsible for sentencing him but I think there is a question for Government and for society about the welfare state and the taxpayers who pay for the welfare state subsidising lifestyles like that and I think that debate needs to be had."
Labour MPs reacted angrily to the comments, saying no political capital should be made out of such a case, with shadow chancellor Ed Balls accusing Mr Osborne of "nasty and divisive" tactics.
Liberal Democrat MP and former education minister Sarah Teather said: "It is deeply irresponsible for such a senior politician to seek to capitalise on public anger about this case, and in doing so demonise anybody who receives any kind of welfare support."
The PM's intervention suggests the Government is trying to link the Philpott case and the need for welfare reform.
The coalition is bringing in a £26,000 cap on the total amount of benefits a single household can receive.
David Cameron echoes George Osborne, who questioned whether the state should pay for the lifestyles of people like Mick Philpott.
skynews.com 3:57pm UK, Friday 05 April 2013
The Prime Minister says Osborne was right to raise the welfare debate
David Cameron has endorsed comments made by Chancellor George Osborne who linked the Mick Philpott case to the Government's benefits shake-up.
Mr Osborne questioned whether the taxpayer should subsidise the "lifestyles" of people like convicted child killer Philpott.
The unemployed 56-year-old, who claimed thousands of pounds in benefits, was jailed for life this week for killing six of his children in a fire at their Derby home in May last year.
Speaking from his constituency, the Prime Minister said: "I think what George Osborne said was absolutely right. He said that Mr Philpott was the one to blame for his crimes and he should be held responsible.
"But what the Chancellor went on to say is we should ask some wider questions about our welfare system - how much it costs and the signals that it sends.
"And we do want to make clear that welfare is there to help people who work hard - it shouldn't be there as a sort of lifestyle choice, and I think that's entirely legitimate."
Mr Osborne was on a visit to Derby earlier this week when he was asked if the Philpott family, who lived off £60,000 in benefits a year, were a product of Britain's welfare system.
Though did not agree that they were, he sparked a political row by not categorically denying the suggestion.
He said: "Philpott is responsible for these absolutely horrendous crimes, these are crimes that have shocked the nation.
"The courts are responsible for sentencing him but I think there is a question for Government and for society about the welfare state and the taxpayers who pay for the welfare state subsidising lifestyles like that and I think that debate needs to be had."
Labour MPs reacted angrily to the comments, saying no political capital should be made out of such a case, with shadow chancellor Ed Balls accusing Mr Osborne of "nasty and divisive" tactics.
Liberal Democrat MP and former education minister Sarah Teather said: "It is deeply irresponsible for such a senior politician to seek to capitalise on public anger about this case, and in doing so demonise anybody who receives any kind of welfare support."
The PM's intervention suggests the Government is trying to link the Philpott case and the need for welfare reform.
The coalition is bringing in a £26,000 cap on the total amount of benefits a single household can receive.
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