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Shame on you McCoy
Shame on you McCoy
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I think most people are missing the point here. What has happened is that what appears to be a perfectly healthy horse (unless you believe the convenient scope story) has been withdrawn to enable AP to ride SDC. That is basically wrong. Its wrong for the punters who put Sunny into various bets and its wrong that in the greatest jump race of the year they can pull a horse out like this to manipulate a result. Of course AP is going to want to take a more fancied ride but that doesnt excuse the fact that this is wrong and should SDC win it then it will leave a sour taste in the mouth of a lot of racing fans. This is Cheltenham not some flappers hurdle at Fakenham.
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I meant Sunnyhill Boy.
Sir des Champs is/was a possible winner. McCoy is a bit similar to Piggott. I hope he doesn't end up at Her Majesty's Pleasure but wouldn't be that surprised. |
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"McCoy is a bit similar to Piggott. I hope he doesn't end up at Her Majesty's Pleasure but wouldn't be that surprised"
What's that based on, you f***ing ****? |
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morning tony
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Oh God I have a stalker
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a/p confirmed as the rider.
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Spot on Wallis. I have more distaste for JPM and Jonjo for colluding in this manipulation than I do for McCoy. It's so blatant yet the BHA will be unable to do anything because they have their convenient excuse lined up.
Whatever the result there'll be a bad taste afterwards. |
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McCoy is one of the greatest riders of all time. Townand whilst a brilliant jockey has never won at the course or festival and to put that pressure on him would be unfair. best of luck Tony
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Agreed Jeze. I have nothing against AP but there are so many scenarios now where something detrimental to the sport could happen. What if he wins it in a driving photo finish - how many newspapers and knockers of horse racing are going to say "well that wouldnt have happened if..". What if he decks the horse ? The AP critics will have a field day. Cooper or one of the Gigginstown jockeys should have been given what could be a life changing opportunity. Instead its become a farce of dirty dealing down behind closed doors. As I wrote earlier , if this had been at Fakenham or somewhere on a midweek fixture and a horse was withdrawn , AP moved to the 2nd fav and then it hosed in this forum would be in meltdown.
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Get real everybody, if you are O'Leary and Mullins, wouldn't you want the winning most jockey of all time on board if there was a chance he was available?
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I think the Sunnyhillboy withdrawal is kosher. Why wouldn't it be? JP/Jonjo don't need a 'reason' to allow McCoy to ride SDC they just have to permit him to do so and replace him on Sunnyhillboy. Sunnyhillboy doesn't have to be withdrawn for that to happen.
Let's be honest, they would have had the choice of every other jockey in the weighing room to ride Sunnyhillboy if he was fit! |
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DJQ, to be technically correct PT has never had a chase winner at the Festival. He won the 2011 Fred Winter.
Plus every jockey has to have his first winner somewhere. It's not as if he's never had a ride in the GC either. He stepped into Ruby's shoes on the big stage in Ireland coolly enough when RW was out injured. And he's attached to the yard so is more likely to have seen SDC working, schooling, etc. |
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i stand corrected jez
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I wonder how Sir Des Champs backers feel about this. Does this move, whether morally right or wrong, REALLY improve his chances?
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betlarge - can they do that ? On the morning of the Gold Cup can they just decide that AP can move to SDC and then put another jockey on top of Sunny ? Surely there are some rules to stop that happening , you cant just shuffle jockeys round for no reason.
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its good news ap on place lay for me now might not even complete
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betlarge - they can't. The Rules only permit a rider declared to ride another horse in the same race to switch horses if his original mount is unfit to run. Hence the convenient dirty scope.
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Correct Wallis, rules state can't change jockeys from one horse to another when no known previous association with the stable. To prevent the likes of say a Richard Johnson replacing a conditional in a tin pot race at say the likes of Hereford. In this case a bit stupid as hardly going to be not trying in a Gold Cup.
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McCoy has always been an easy target for two bob numpties on this forum,
all you are any good at is criticize the man, he has achieved more than the lot of you put together ! |
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Thanks Big_Issue.
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Plus every jockey has to have his first winner somewhere.
not at the gold cup mind |
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McCoy is undoubtedly a good jockey but he is no saint and neither are some of his connections.
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betlarge - can they do that ? On the morning of the Gold Cup can they just decide that AP can move to SDC and then put another jockey on top of Sunny ? Surely there are some rules to stop that happening , you cant just shuffle jockeys round for no reason.
Good question Wallis, I'm not actually sure of the rules as it stands. But that would be key certainly. It's just that I've seen this happen in loads of races over the years (big and small) where a champ gets to replace a lesser-known when the champ suddenly becomes available. As some have mentioned, this was Lester's party piece! |
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volontiers , this is exactly my point - it has nothing to do with anyones opinion of AP (well , not mine anyway). This is about conveniently withdrawing a horse in the morning to shuffle a jockey around in the greatest jumps race of the year and affecting punters, owners and the running of the race. As big_issue said the only way he could do this is if Sunnyhillboy was withdrawn. So it comes down to whether you believe something is wrong with that horse or if its all a bit too suspicious. I fall down on the side of the latter.
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betlarge - absolutely. Ive seen it happen and when it does this forum explodes and everyone screams "cheat" when they land a touch. The horse with the rag on is punted off the boards , then suddenly has toothache or whatever it was when that welsh trainer did it , then Johnson steps in and the horse wins by a postcode.
Now its not the case here but the principle of pulling out a horse to move a jockey is wrong. They should have stuck with one of their own and given someone the chance of a lifetime. |
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wrong betlarge...the only way ap can ride sir des champs is to withdraw the horse he was originally declared for.
he's doing sunnyhill backers a favour as the horse had no chance and they'll get their money back. |
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what if there is something wrong with Sunnyhillboy,
coincidences do happen in life you know ! |
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Have just been debating this on another forum and got this response:
"As long as Sunnyhill Boy remains in the race, the rules of racing would not allow Tony McCoy to switch mounts, and ride another horse" BHA's Robin Mounsey, last night. In which case my previous post was definitely wrong and I would agree this does not look good. |
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voluntiers , it comes down to whether or not you believe it to be true or an orchestrated plan to free up AP and I know which I believe.
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We know McManus and O'Leary are as straight as they come.
Nothing to see here. Please move on. |
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posy , the antepost backers wont. Nor will anyone on here who punted it in the ante post markets at treble figure prices and were looking to lay off.
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wallis is totally correct
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Worse than a gaggle of old women some on here.
I aint no fan of AP, to be honest the boring kant irritates me, but what has he done wrong here? Officially the horse has scoped dirty. |
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Respect to Joey what a haul
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The authorities hands are tied as all the vets are in collusion with the trainers, all Jonjo did last night was to ring Joe Vet and tell him he needs a vets cert for the morning, job done and the authorities can't do a thing about it, a vets word is final even if the vast majority of vets certs are fake.
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and the word of the forum nobodies is also final,
if they say it's all fixed etc, then that must be the truth and everything else is a conspiracy  |
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Jezebel 15 Mar 13 11:02
betlarge - they can't. The Rules only permit a rider declared to ride another horse in the same race to switch horses if his original mount is unfit to run. Hence the convenient dirty scope. But isn't this exactly what Piggott used to do in prestigious races ? i.e original riders 'jocked off' to allow him the ride. |
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silvergreaser 15 Mar 13 11:52
The authorities hands are tied as all the vets are in collusion with the trainers, all Jonjo did last night was to ring Joe Vet and tell him he needs a vets cert for the morning, job done and the authorities can't do a thing about it, a vets word is final even if the vast majority of vets certs are fake. Absolute rubbish you prat |
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If anyone believes there's some kind of conspiracy, then you really are complete and utter mugs.
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But isn't this exactly what Piggott used to do in prestigious races ? i.e original riders 'jocked off' to allow him the ride.
Facts The rules have been changed since Lesters days |