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premiumcharge evasion team
premiumcharge evasion team
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Replies: 104
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hope this helps people understand the sort of people you are up against
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proof of my wifes joining date which was way before premiumcharge was introduced
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I don't pay the premium charge yet as I've made approx £700 in 10 years on here, and paid approx 28% commission. I'd love to make more but I don't kid myself that I'm ever going to become a millionnaire, and nor should anyone else. Anyone who complains about paying more than 20% commission has after all earned at least £250,000 on here. Isn't that enough? How much more do you want, a million? 20 million? Plus the same for all the others that make up the 0.10% of people on here. Be real. It can't carry on unchecked.
99.9% people have made nothing like these amounts, and would be happy to change places I'm sure. Probably about 96% have made losses over these ten years or so, some of them crippling losses I'll bet. If you were that successful that you could make £250,000 in 10 years from betting, how long do you think your account would last at a bookmakers? Surely coming away with 40% of your winnings is better than having your account closed? And yes, there probably are ways that the premium charge can be avoided, but with what end result? One last small term gain for a handful of already successful people, at the risk of wiping out the exchange as we know it, and forcing Betfair into the hands of a national bookmaker firm. The site is already looking like one anyway. Surely it rings alarm bells. Be grateful for what you've got I say. |
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£250,000 divided by 10 = £25,000 per year
and you think to tax someone 40% that earns £25,000 per year is ok  |
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finishingpost 04 Apr 13 14:20
I'd love to make more but I don't kid myself that I'm ever going to become a millionnaire, and nor should anyone else. _____________ a if i cant do it no one can post |
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rcing
This isn't a job though is it? We aren't producing anything. We're betting on the result of sports events, against other members of the public. If you want to think about it in terms of wages, imagine this: All the popluation were to work for one company, but a wage will only be paid to approximately 5% of the workforce, and their pay will come from a tax on the other 95%. The 5% will be entitled to keep increasing their pay forever by increasing the tax on the others. How long would such a company last before the 95% got fed up and went to work for someone else? |
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i work 350+ days a year on here some days 10 hrs have made about £100K profit in 7 years which is about £15k a year soon they want me to pay 40% pc i do love what i am doing and so decided to take it up full time now i am being told to pi-s off and what about the guys who have opened exchanges they will lose all there customers what with this and the same speed pictures becoming available at home but who cares they offered a product that people built their lives around and now betfair are taking it away through greed
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Made £700 in ten years but paid only 28% commission?
You can't bet too often then imo. |
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finishing post , not everyone who bets on here do so as a job , for some it is a hobby , past time , leisure activity .
we are all betting , if i bet against you , you will take my money and vice versa , betfair take commission for being the middle man , why should they take more from someone whose judgement/knowledge which they have acquired over many years , is better than someone else ? |
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Finishing post's analogy is the most illogical, irrelevant and obscure I've witnessed for some considerable time.
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betfair modeled this site to invite people like me on here they gave you a dream which i swallowed and now they are taking it away why would i not be bitter if a firm made me redundant they would pay me a package
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totally correct 0%
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john 92
I bet a lot more now than I used to, but to very small stakes. 28% commission is what I paid this month when I made a decent profit. Probably in the early years when I bet on the dogs as well, my commission would probably have been double that. I've never kept a record. loper I only used the job analogy because rcing compared the PC with income tax. But if the winners on here don't get their money from the losers, where exactly do they get it? rcing Yes I agree, that's how Betfair started out. We bet against each other and BF took a commission on each bet. Brilliant idea. So what went wrong? Was it really bad management? I read a post on another forum from an ex BF employee recently who posted that some form of levy HAD to be made, and anyone looking at the stats would have been forced to agree. If not, why has the other site not taken up the baton and made it successful, long before now? I'm not on the inside but it seems a lot of the issue is down to advertising. To maintain a flow of new 'losers' to replace the disillusioned ones takes a lot of money in advertising. Gerbs I don't understand your last post. |
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finishingpost,
perhaps a better analogy would be the catering industry. 90% of catering outlets fail. That shouldn't mean that the 10% who are successful should contribute to a parachute fund for their failed rivals. Others come along to take the place of those that fail. |
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finishingpost 04 Apr 13 14:20
I'd love to make more but I don't kid myself that I'm ever going to become a millionnaire, and nor should anyone else. _____________ you are saying that because you cannot do it, no on else can |
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This isn't a job though is it? We aren't producing anything. We're betting on the result of sports events, against other members of the public
could you say the same about the stock exchange ? |
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this is winning money,you call a job or not shouldent give people the right to take silly amounts of money off you for using their site & winning fairly.
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Gerbs
No I'm not. I'm saying I'm not kidding myself that I'll make a million on here, and I don't believe anyone else should (kid themselves). I wish everyone all the success they can get, but if you do make a million, I can't see how you can think it will be without some form of levy. rcing No not really, as their are real companies underlying the gambling that goes on. |
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Doh..
Typo in my last post. Their for there. The shame! loper I think that's the point though. There aren't enough new people coming to the exchange. And if that was because of the PC (which I very much doubt) why doesn't everyone flock to the other site, where there is no PC? After all, the liquidity will only improve if more people join. |
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i think the liquidity is going up but not quickly enough,been ok this afternoon
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i used to rave about betfair to my friends and know of at least 8 people who joined because of this now all i do is slag them off surely word of mouth has more power than any advert which people probably do not believe
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No not really, as their are real companies underlying the gambling that goes on
there are also real companies/peoples jobs underlying the gambling that goes on here too . |
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rcing
Do you mean the owners,trainers,jockeys, stable lads etc? That's a fair point but I didn't know BF paid a levy to the BHB. I thought that was one of the bookies' main gripes. Anyway, what's your view on some of my questions, eg if the exchange works fine without PC why hasn't everyone flocked to the other site, not just recently but ages ago? It should by rights be streets ahead by now. As per loper's analogy, if there were two catering oulets on the high street and one of them was charging more for the same meal, you wouldn't argue why. It would just be a pointless waste of time. You'd just go across the road to the other wouldn't you? |
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Nearly all PC payers will be big bettors or in running players who would not be able to get their bets matched elsewhere. There isn't enough liquidity. For there to be liquidity, the majority would need to move and the majority have no motive to move. A bit like chicken and egg.
Betfair know this. If this wasn't the case the PC wouldn't exist. You mention if 'everything works fine', well things don't work fine but the PC does NOTHING to make change any of the underlying reasons why people lose money 'too quickly'... all it does is give Betfair a bigger cut of the action giving them less motivation to do anything about said underlying reasons. As for this... "As per loper's analogy, if there were two catering oulets on the high street and one of them was charging more for the same meal, you wouldn't argue why. It would just be a pointless waste of time. You'd just go across the road to the other wouldn't you?" You mention the same meal but some can't get served at the other catering outlet because they don't have enough food to feed everyone, so you have to stay where you are and pay more. In other words, bets won't get matched elsewhere as there isn't enough liquidity. |
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betfair do pay levy .
john92 sums it up |
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john 92
Betfair didn't start off with in-running/API/trading platforms etc etc did it? It started as a simple person to person, pre-race betting site, just like the other one. Perhaps its problems have arisen because it drifted from those simple ideals, and through the 'innovations' a handful of very clever people discovered how to make a lot of money using some pretty sophisticated software along the way. And no, the other site won't as yet be able to accomodate them. I'm sure the 95% of losing punters on there won't be shedding any tears though. |
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I don't get the relevance of the last post. You asked why people hadn't moved and I answered. I didn't mention API or trading platforms.
The abilty to trade and play IR are USPs of Betfair compared to bookies though so it's a strange stick to hit them with. I started paying the PC using the interface and betting using ATR. I've evolved a bit now though, with live video and the auto refresh app. Not everyone has sophisticated software or 'innovations'. Some rely on work and skill. The auto refresh app has I admit made things slighlty easier and definitely spared me arthritis in that finger. |
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john , are you using gruss ?
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I have gruss and have it running all the time but very rarely use it and almost never after the race has started. I use it to quickly put a bet on a frontrunner and for the horse notes. Once we go to beta I will need to try it more.
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well , whatever works for you i guess . i could never bet in running using the betfair interface . fair play to you .
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I like being able to quickly manipulate the odds and stake when laying off, which I find easier on the interface. Even with the custom columns it's hard to get a bet in the 'right' place in the queue more often than not. I find that anyway.
Plus even with a large monitor and minimising gruss, it's impossible (for me at least!) to fit the interface type bit, the custom columns and the live video all on the screen at the same time. |
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Thinly veiled 'I am a transvestite. Is anybody else?' thread.
IMVHO |
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apologist be honest now, you didn't mean to write the words
" thinly veiled thread " in your post did you .  |
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john92 I am able to do all that easily with 2 monitors - have you tried it?
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rcing
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I'm sure I read here before it was possible with two monitors, but I've never tried it as I'm happy on the interface. If we end up on beta I'll be asking for advice on how to set it up!
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surely even if betfair were to increase the £250k net profit ceiling each year instead of it being a life time amount then the smaller players would never pay the 40%-60% pc but would pay the 20% pc which although is extortianate would be barable imo not sure if that would work
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