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I recently opened an online account with a leading High St Bookmaker (in my own name), and made several deposits before turning my losses into a profit.
In making these deposits I was not once asked to provide any proof of my ID.
However, obviously once the account went into profit, I was soon restricted to 0 maximum stakes, and so I requested the return of my funds back to my registered debit card.
The Bookmaker is refusing to return these funds back to the card before I supply them with 3 forms of ID. They also informed me that I have had accounts with them before that had been restricted.
I have refused to provide them with my ID (although I have absolutely nothing to hide), and so we are at a stalemate, with them refusing to return the funds.
To prove what an absolute pi** take this is, I have since been allowed to make a further nominal deposit without any request for ID etc.
Clearly the Bookmaker is irked that I have dared to win off them, and they are making things as difficult as possible.
Would appreciate any advice on my best course of action?
In making these deposits I was not once asked to provide any proof of my ID.
However, obviously once the account went into profit, I was soon restricted to 0 maximum stakes, and so I requested the return of my funds back to my registered debit card.
The Bookmaker is refusing to return these funds back to the card before I supply them with 3 forms of ID. They also informed me that I have had accounts with them before that had been restricted.
I have refused to provide them with my ID (although I have absolutely nothing to hide), and so we are at a stalemate, with them refusing to return the funds.
To prove what an absolute pi** take this is, I have since been allowed to make a further nominal deposit without any request for ID etc.
Clearly the Bookmaker is irked that I have dared to win off them, and they are making things as difficult as possible.
Would appreciate any advice on my best course of action?
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approx 50-50 of bookies do this.............i have no idea why............its totally flawed............but just scan them your passport and send it on..............its a pain but what are you afraid of?.........they already have your credit card details.........thats the most important info any of us have.
had similar problems online with Joe Corral and it was all to do with KYC regulations. I have to say that there wouldn't be a problem if ID was needed in the first place to open an account but what is wrong in my opinion is how they are keen to open an account instantly and not refer to these ID requirements until you request money. What happens if you open an account, lose 200 quid and then never bet again, are they in breach of their own rules??
Completely right Sooty and this SHOULD be stamped out. They are probably afraid that they might lose losing business if people were told beforehand
Have you had accounts with them before that have been restricted , in your name or friends / family etc ?
Indeed sooty.
I would have had no problem supplying them with my ID had it been a requirement of opening and then depositing into the account.
They want photo ID? Why?
Would I have a case if I took this to the small claims Court?
I would have had no problem supplying them with my ID had it been a requirement of opening and then depositing into the account.
They want photo ID? Why?
Would I have a case if I took this to the small claims Court?
It isn't a problem for me to produce the ID they require.
It's just the principle of the matter, and the fact that it's a right pain in the arse
It's just the principle of the matter, and the fact that it's a right pain in the arse
They want your photo so they can distribute it around their shops, then they'll stop you there as well! Have a picture taken like Mrs Brown and send that in, unless you're going to use that disguise in the shops!
IDKW, just looked briefly through this site and a lot of people with the same experience as yourself have all basically said, just provide the requested ID, it's their rules and you can sing and dance until you're blue in the face, but all you're doing is prolonging what you will have to do at somestage, if you want to receive your money.
http://www.thegamblingtimes.com/board/player-support-gaming-site-feedback-ge...
http://www.thegamblingtimes.com/board/player-support-gaming-site-feedback-ge...
zilzal1 07 Feb 13 18:51
Completely right Sooty and this SHOULD be stamped out. They are probably afraid that they might lose losing business if people were told beforehand.
Completely correct Zil
Completely right Sooty and this SHOULD be stamped out. They are probably afraid that they might lose losing business if people were told beforehand.
Completely correct Zil
... send 'em a pic. of when you were in your 20s ! 
I feel for punters without a big city around them, online is a no no now
.. what about mobile phones mate !
Viz la viz, a few calls to the right people !
Viz la viz, a few calls to the right people !
these people are criminals with silly red ties and badges, (if its ladbrokes) hills do it as well, coral arent organised enough, there new site doesnt even work correctly,make that "double scum with a dollop of clueless if its the tragic sign" they will take thousands and thousands of pounds with no request for docs, david wiilliams was asked to comment, he failed but thats whatbhe does (fail), and yet they treat there staff like scum, if they took a bet without checking ID its a disciplinary with a complete knob who knows nothing about the industry but irons his triusers and walks with a purpose................ question is, isnt it about time it hit court.... how can they get away with it, ok no one expects the gambling commision to do anyhthing because they are as useful as a chocolate teapot. hey williams me and you in court what do you say, im barred for winning in ladbrokes shops, shall we tell the world how you operate !!! GAME ON ?
I hope the greedy so an sos get their hands trapped in the till...
All bookmakers work under the same principal, because they work on the high street with big bills they
expect all customers to understand that all moneis received are thiers until they legaly have to give you some back, all or more back.
Cut out the expesive middle man and hire a fair one
expect all customers to understand that all moneis received are thiers until they legaly have to give you some back, all or more back.
Cut out the expesive middle man and hire a fair one
i bet its pa d d y powe r
C unt s have done the same with me - 4 years and counting
I dont understand why you need to show proof of ID with a debit card
C unt s have done the same with me - 4 years and counting
I dont understand why you need to show proof of ID with a debit card
http://www.gibraltar.gov.gi/remotegambling/2126-the-gambling-commissioners-advice-to-complainants
Providing Documents
Operators are required by various laws and regulations to establish the age and identity of customers. In some cases this can be done through electronic databases or other information and the customer will not have to do anything else. In other cases it will be necessary to ask the customer to provide further information, including photocopies, or certified photocopies, of official documents such as bank cards, bank statements, passport or driving licence. This is usually explained in the operator's terms and conditions.
Customers sometimes object to sending such data over the internet and may do it by post, but this is obviously slower. There is no evidence that either method is more or less secure than the other. We regard either method as acceptable. You should always send in clear, high quality, copies, preferably scanned or photocopied, or digitally photographed (at the same angle as a scanner/photocopier.) You must not alter such documents or the copies.
Where a customer has triggered a security alert or is affected by a security alert, then obtaining copies of documents becomes even more important. We are aware that some customers seek to register incomplete or partially inaccurate details for various reasons. This is not permissible and will lead to delays and complications when copy documents are required.
Copy documents are carefully checked by specialist staff against databases and other sources to ensure they are genuine and have not been altered. This may lead to delays due to the time this takes or to research an unusual document or get a second opinion on a question. Customers will be asked to send in better copies if what they provide is not clear.
We will invariably support an operator who asks a customer to provide copy documents for proper reasons.
Providing Documents
Operators are required by various laws and regulations to establish the age and identity of customers. In some cases this can be done through electronic databases or other information and the customer will not have to do anything else. In other cases it will be necessary to ask the customer to provide further information, including photocopies, or certified photocopies, of official documents such as bank cards, bank statements, passport or driving licence. This is usually explained in the operator's terms and conditions.
Customers sometimes object to sending such data over the internet and may do it by post, but this is obviously slower. There is no evidence that either method is more or less secure than the other. We regard either method as acceptable. You should always send in clear, high quality, copies, preferably scanned or photocopied, or digitally photographed (at the same angle as a scanner/photocopier.) You must not alter such documents or the copies.
Where a customer has triggered a security alert or is affected by a security alert, then obtaining copies of documents becomes even more important. We are aware that some customers seek to register incomplete or partially inaccurate details for various reasons. This is not permissible and will lead to delays and complications when copy documents are required.
Copy documents are carefully checked by specialist staff against databases and other sources to ensure they are genuine and have not been altered. This may lead to delays due to the time this takes or to research an unusual document or get a second opinion on a question. Customers will be asked to send in better copies if what they provide is not clear.
We will invariably support an operator who asks a customer to provide copy documents for proper reasons.
They've created a sort of 'cartel' between them so any potential winner can have his most intimate details & pictures circulated around all their databases for future reference...I'm just surprised they don't want some inside leg measurements & DNA evidence too!
As a few have mentioned...how can it possibly be justified that it's not made clear when you're depositing?
On a point of principle, I agree entirely with the OP and I hope you stand your ground...someone needs to pulls the trousers down of these pieces of shíte and fcuk 'em with the only 'currency' they pay homage to - hard cash!
Utter stinking bastards!
PS - to the OP...name & shame these ****!
As a few have mentioned...how can it possibly be justified that it's not made clear when you're depositing?
On a point of principle, I agree entirely with the OP and I hope you stand your ground...someone needs to pulls the trousers down of these pieces of shíte and fcuk 'em with the only 'currency' they pay homage to - hard cash!
Utter stinking bastards!
PS - to the OP...name & shame these ****!
**** = ****
It seems like the B/F filters are even barring the use of accents on vowels...there's 'progress' for you!
It seems like the B/F filters are even barring the use of accents on vowels...there's 'progress' for you!
As a few have mentioned...how can it possibly be justified that it's not made clear when you're depositing? It's in the terms and conditions - obv no one reads these, but this is what happens when you don't.
Dave - I would prefer to know WHY & HOW it can be justified...not what's written in AN ESSAY that's in effect a 'chancer's charter'
Its very ironic that many bookmaker managers and staff let kids into gambling centers that are definitely under 18 to
lose all their money on FOBTs ,just to look better to area managers when the profits are up!
lose all their money on FOBTs ,just to look better to area managers when the profits are up!
Do bookmakers read the terms and conditions of owning a turf accounts licence?
I really can sympathise with the OP as I once lost around £600 of winnings because I was fuming that these same kind of shítty T&C's were pissing me off that much, over the next month or so it felt like I was like betting with Monopoly money, and even though it was legitimately mine, I couldn't get my paws on it!
My scanner's fcuked and I wasn't prepared to mail them the evidence (out of principle) they demanded as I'd already had a driving licence stolen before by similarly unscrupulous twáats!
People sue everyone nowadays for 'hurt feelings' and the likes of this shít is allowed to continue!
I should be able to take such bastards to court and get that cash back...they 'affected my judgement' as I was flapping and I gambled in a rash manner!
Maybe I'll just have to smash a few windows at their HQ and cost them a few quid more than my paltry £6 centuries
My day will come
My scanner's fcuked and I wasn't prepared to mail them the evidence (out of principle) they demanded as I'd already had a driving licence stolen before by similarly unscrupulous twáats!
People sue everyone nowadays for 'hurt feelings' and the likes of this shít is allowed to continue!
I should be able to take such bastards to court and get that cash back...they 'affected my judgement' as I was flapping and I gambled in a rash manner!
Maybe I'll just have to smash a few windows at their HQ and cost them a few quid more than my paltry £6 centuries
My day will come
Asking for 3 is just taking the piss as a proportion of the population don't own 3 forms of age identity, thus you could take them to court for unfair business practices?
I am pretty sure that somewhere along the line this policy is not legal in court.
I've tried to bust 700 pounds out of an Australian operator that asked interminably for photos of the whole family certified by winning and ended up winning some 5,400 pounds with the bookie for the loss of about 30 pounds in commission.
Some of this was on UK racing where their oddsline changed slowly, so I am now limited to 0 pounds on all bets.
The dispute over whether I have provided adequate id info. is still ongoing.
If the sum was slightly smaller, I'd love to take them to court as their t&c s are unclear. The joke would be to get them to claim jurisdictional issues, while advertising what an appalling service they offered to international punters.
Much more likely I'll still bend over backwards to satisfy them with the data.
The ironic thing is that the only people for whom the win / loss is out of the way for the kind of market and customer is the miserable Aussie book, that offers markets it doesn't understand and can't manage.
Some of this was on UK racing where their oddsline changed slowly, so I am now limited to 0 pounds on all bets.
The dispute over whether I have provided adequate id info. is still ongoing.
If the sum was slightly smaller, I'd love to take them to court as their t&c s are unclear. The joke would be to get them to claim jurisdictional issues, while advertising what an appalling service they offered to international punters.
Much more likely I'll still bend over backwards to satisfy them with the data.
The ironic thing is that the only people for whom the win / loss is out of the way for the kind of market and customer is the miserable Aussie book, that offers markets it doesn't understand and can't manage.
message to dfave1357, take yoour head out the sand my friend, ive got thousands of emails, account jpegs, even got a betsson account who happily refunded after having docs they then refused to payout a decent win because the passport had run out of date in between payouts, ladbrokes refusing a payout of thousands because they said there was discrepancies with the information they had and the banks stored info, we tried to deposit whilst this was going on, they took the deposit and when asked why said "we dont like to interfere with our customers enjoyment of sport" this is while they are accusing a customer of fraud, it became legal they backed down and it turned out there differing information was the county was not entered on registration !!!!!!!!!!! these people are SCUM end of, but the problem is far deeper, in no other business in the blame and claim uk of 2013 could you get away with such practices, its so obvious that if they have a problem authenticating you, you are not allowed to bet until they do, if they take a bet it means they are sure you are 18 and allowed to bet, but heres the problem with that, the case thats going to court im involved with, ladbrokes took thousands and thousands of pounds over months, when a withdrawal was requested because theyd refused bets after a few winners they said "we cannot verify you"..... so dave 1357, you reckon thats within the law or ethically right ? are you one of these ts and cs people whereby it might as well say "carry on until you lose your house we wont bother you but dont win and try and withdraw" dave yoiu need to start thinking for yourself !
No I'm one of those people that says if you bet with an offshore book, you have to expect to abide by their rules. I'd rather that fraudsters money launderers amd bonus abusers had a difficult life than have online gambling shut down like it is in the USA.
Can somebody clarify where a bookmaker stands in the following situation.
You have an account which eventually gets limited/closed.
You are then able to set up a new account (maybe your address changed & they didn't pick it up). If this account wins do they have any grounds for voiding the winning bets? Surely if they are going to decline the bets then they have to prevent you from signing up in the 1st place?
Does anyone actually know or has tested this situation? Assume you can provide ID etc to prove what they require.
You have an account which eventually gets limited/closed.
You are then able to set up a new account (maybe your address changed & they didn't pick it up). If this account wins do they have any grounds for voiding the winning bets? Surely if they are going to decline the bets then they have to prevent you from signing up in the 1st place?
Does anyone actually know or has tested this situation? Assume you can provide ID etc to prove what they require.
vermin the lot of them.
no doubt tracked your IP address and linked it to other accounts....now they'll put the pressure on by asking for allsorts of ID in hope that you'll give the money up.
trust me it happens. bookies are worse than hitler.
no doubt tracked your IP address and linked it to other accounts....now they'll put the pressure on by asking for allsorts of ID in hope that you'll give the money up.
trust me it happens. bookies are worse than hitler.
stoozbet....all bets stand and they have to pay out.
dave, the trouble is with bonus abusing is the paranoia its caused, i had someone who had a payment of 393.00 confiscated because of an ip address issue, the ip address was that of foursites library south west england, used by thousands of people daily, it is dave "any excuse"............ i dont make this up, i have all the docs, emails accounts, im writing a book, it is a no brainer. you do not get to place a bet until they say "you are verified"...... but they dont want that, remember the ladbrokes 1.6 million take from the guy who spent his empliyers money, "we saw no reason to question this account" yet i have one guy who backed three outside football teams in the capital one cup a few months ago, account closed !!!!!!! and this is because ladbrokes lack the basic trading skills to understand the difference between a capital one game and a premiership game between the same two teams, they are so poor they price the same in both events, and who gets the blame, the punter,as for offshore companies, you just have to avoid some of them at any cost, anyone heard of boogiebet, we found them leaving horses out of races, there reply, "if people tell us we will add it in".......... as david coleman used to say "quite remarkable" !!!!!!!!! as for trading standards, victor chandler portrays himself as the gentleman bookmaker, well im a tin of pears, his company are also SCUM, they shut accounts without even telling you, just block access............... real classy !
Ok, just checked my E-Mail and have an update.
I sent an E-Mail off to them yesterday evening in response to their steadfast stance, and here is the result;
From: "documents@ *************
To: ******
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2013, 16:29
Subject: RE: Your ********* account
Hi ******
We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused. However, all online betting websites request for documents from players at some point.
There are several reasons for this, the most important ones being:
1. We have a legal obligation under our gaming license to ensure that we are sending the funds to the correct person, and;
2. These documents aid us in compliance with international money laundering regulations, which have increased in severity in recent years.
If you are concerned about the privacy of your credit card, you can block out the middle 8 digits of the card number, as we only require the first four and last four digits for verification.
We hope to have a long and mutually beneficial relationship with you, and look forward to your cooperation in handling this matter.
Best regards,
Security Department
Dear Sir,
Thank you for your reply.
I maintain my position that I am not prepared to supply you with the requested documents.
In response to the points you raise;
1. Do you not have a legal obligation under your gaming license to ensure that you are receiving funds from the correct person?
2. There is no legal reason why you are unable to transfer MY funds back to MY card without sight of the requested documents.
If, as you say, you "need to ensure security is maintained at all times", why then, have I been able to deposit into my account subsequent to your security checks not being met?
Further, prior to my request for withdrawal, your traders limited my stakes to a maximum of 0 on any one horse racing market. It is clear then, that **********, along with the vast majority of High St Bookmakers, only want to entertain losing clients. This would explain why you have only requested the security documents once it became apparent that my account was in profit. Why do you not insist on clients providing these documents upon opening an account, and before allowing any deposits?
This practise is by no means exclusive to ***********, but the Bookmakers spin machine needs exposing as blatant lies.
I will allow a further 5 days for ********* to transfer my funds back to my debit card.
If the funds do not appear in my account within that period you leave me with no option but to take this matter to Court.
Regards
Subject: RE: Your ************ account
Hi ******
Your account has been updated and your withdrawal has been released
Your cooperation has been greatly appreciated.
Best regards,
Security Department
************
[/i]
My co-operation?
Yeah right. It seems clear that the fact that I had made a small deposit subsequent to their "security checks not being met" has forced this complete turnaround.
I sent an E-Mail off to them yesterday evening in response to their steadfast stance, and here is the result;
From: "documents@ *************
To: ******
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2013, 16:29
Subject: RE: Your ********* account
Hi ******
We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused. However, all online betting websites request for documents from players at some point.
There are several reasons for this, the most important ones being:
1. We have a legal obligation under our gaming license to ensure that we are sending the funds to the correct person, and;
2. These documents aid us in compliance with international money laundering regulations, which have increased in severity in recent years.
If you are concerned about the privacy of your credit card, you can block out the middle 8 digits of the card number, as we only require the first four and last four digits for verification.
We hope to have a long and mutually beneficial relationship with you, and look forward to your cooperation in handling this matter.
Best regards,
Security Department
Dear Sir,
Thank you for your reply.
I maintain my position that I am not prepared to supply you with the requested documents.
In response to the points you raise;
1. Do you not have a legal obligation under your gaming license to ensure that you are receiving funds from the correct person?
2. There is no legal reason why you are unable to transfer MY funds back to MY card without sight of the requested documents.
If, as you say, you "need to ensure security is maintained at all times", why then, have I been able to deposit into my account subsequent to your security checks not being met?
Further, prior to my request for withdrawal, your traders limited my stakes to a maximum of 0 on any one horse racing market. It is clear then, that **********, along with the vast majority of High St Bookmakers, only want to entertain losing clients. This would explain why you have only requested the security documents once it became apparent that my account was in profit. Why do you not insist on clients providing these documents upon opening an account, and before allowing any deposits?
This practise is by no means exclusive to ***********, but the Bookmakers spin machine needs exposing as blatant lies.
I will allow a further 5 days for ********* to transfer my funds back to my debit card.
If the funds do not appear in my account within that period you leave me with no option but to take this matter to Court.
Regards
Subject: RE: Your ************ account
Hi ******
Your account has been updated and your withdrawal has been released
Your cooperation has been greatly appreciated.
Best regards,
Security Department
************
[/i]
My co-operation?
Yeah right. It seems clear that the fact that I had made a small deposit subsequent to their "security checks not being met" has forced this complete turnaround.
eggpresident i also had money stolen from me by bettson, had a few wins, went to withdraw a % and was given a list of documents to produce which i did. They reply that there was a problem with 1 of the documents. I ask which one so that i can rectify it and they refuse to tell me !! About 8 emails later than refuse to correspond and have kept my winnings.As it's slightly less than £500 i coudn't justify legal advice. Just waiting to meet one of their reps at a live event now.
This happened to me with the purple lot some years ago. Was experimenting with them and put £50 in. Turned it into £80 but then wanted to draw it out and was asked to send all sorts of documents to Dublin. Was told it was company policy and got no further when I pointed out a friend had drawn out hundreds without similar problems. Decided it wasn't worth p****** about for for that much so decided I would get up to £200 before sending them the stuff. I lost the £80 of course but I'm not going back there.
crc champ, if i meet one of betssons reps before you, you will be talking to him as hes lying on the floor, im not a violent person but on this occasion as stated in the blues brothers, unnecessary violence "has been approved"...........
What i wall say is the people on customer services at these companies have a collective IQ of 7 so you cannot expect too much, they are following orders and sending out templates, they are truly thick, legal action in the uk is a doddle just do it yourself but when it comes to firms in malta etc its not good and boy do they know it...........
betsson will pay trust me, even if i have to go over to see them , i have to say the worst company ive come across are jetbull, followed by boogie bet for incompetence, and avoid gr88 who will take your deposit, refuse any horse bet and when you try and withdraw they want 5 documents and YOUR SIGNATURE, ......... I had the craziest notion you had to be 18 to bet and that was the end of it.......... but hiding behind money laundering laws these ****s can clone your ID, the irony !!!!!!!!!
What i wall say is the people on customer services at these companies have a collective IQ of 7 so you cannot expect too much, they are following orders and sending out templates, they are truly thick, legal action in the uk is a doddle just do it yourself but when it comes to firms in malta etc its not good and boy do they know it...........
betsson will pay trust me, even if i have to go over to see them , i have to say the worst company ive come across are jetbull, followed by boogie bet for incompetence, and avoid gr88 who will take your deposit, refuse any horse bet and when you try and withdraw they want 5 documents and YOUR SIGNATURE, ......... I had the craziest notion you had to be 18 to bet and that was the end of it.......... but hiding behind money laundering laws these ****s can clone your ID, the irony !!!!!!!!!
Well done IDKW, this small deposit afterwards catches them out
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