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09 Dec 12
12:03
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Date Joined:
13 Oct 01
Fred Winter?
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off the top of my head,johnjo oneill,pat eddery,walter swinburn and jamie osbourne are 4 that wont be at the top of the list
Jonjo's won plenty of top races, Gold cup,Grand national,festival winners and many more.A bit harsh to say he aint a top trainer.
I can't think of a flat jockey since Wragg and Richards who was a real success as a trainer. Lewis,Durr,Swinburn all had a bit of success and I am sure there were one or two others who operated at that level but not first rank.
Geoff Lewis. won the 1000 and 20000 guineas Derby, Arc, etc, trained about 500 winners.
salmon, I think D.Smith was quite successful seem to remember he trained some big winners for Lord Derby.
durose he was better at training Pigs than Horses.
Dec 9, 2012 -- 7:35PM, miprixabloater wrote:
durose he was better at training Pigs than Horses.
he cudnot train them to be filthy
Dandy and Paul Nicholls were both decent jocks and went on to be decent trainers
Outpost both M Dickinson and David Nicholson were decent jockeys who were top class trainers.
Neither Nicholls was exactly top-class as a jock imo.
I've been wracking my brains for 10 mins trying to remember which Derby and Arc winners Lewis TRAINED. Now reread the post.
I've been wracking my brains for 10 mins trying to remember which Derby and Arc winners Lewis TRAINED. Now reread the post.
Nicholson would qualify imo even though he wasn't exactly a nice man.
salmon spray, you know exactly what I was saying, now don't make a cúnt of yourself, there's a good chap.
salmon I am surprised at what you posted about Nicholson I always found him
to have liked a drink but nice with it.
to have liked a drink but nice with it.
No need to be abusive boxingthefox. I worked it out eventually though it was hardly clearly expressed.
I'll just say Nicholson wasn't EVERYONE's cup of tea.
I'll just say Nicholson wasn't EVERYONE's cup of tea.
Bruce Hobbs.
At the age of 17 rode Battleship to win the Grand National. Turned to training after injuries forced him to retire from riding at 25.
At the age of 17 rode Battleship to win the Grand National. Turned to training after injuries forced him to retire from riding at 25.
Not sure who but it amazing how many journeyman jockeys suddenly become "gambling trainers".....
Must be famous if you then have to mention his rides.....
It was for the benefit of the younger forumites who might not know Freddie once was a jockey, and for any older ones who are suffering from amnesia!
Chris Grant may not yet be a top trainer but he is gradually moving up the greasy pole. Nick Henderson was a very good amateur who might have done well as a pro if he had given it a try. It is a very long time sice a champion jockey under eiher code has reached the top 5 trainers. Peter Scudamore is getting there but he does not hold the license.
Might not be liked on here but surely jonjo has been in the top 5 many times?
out of the names mentioned so far, I would say that for NH both Fred Winter and Jonjo have ridden and trained big race winners and on the flat Freddy Head has ridden and trained group winners.
Gordon Richards was a top jockey and I know he trained National winners but I'm not sure if he ever had a big Cheltenham winner.
Gordon Richards was a top jockey and I know he trained National winners but I'm not sure if he ever had a big Cheltenham winner.
Oliver Sherwood-Venture to Cognac,Rodman,Dasman,
Sandeman Maghull Novices' Chase Class A Grade 1 6Apr00 Cenkos D J Casey £36,000
Network Design International Feltham Novices' Chase Class A (Grade 1) 26Dec98 Lord Of The River Jamie Osborne £22,715
Cleeve Hurdle Class A Grade 1 25Jan97 Large Action Jamie Osborne £25,640
Avonmore Hatton's Grace Hurdle (Grade 1) 1Dec96 Large Action Jamie Osborne £26,804
Long Walk Hurdle Class A Grade 1 16Dec95 Silver Wedge Jamie Osborne £25,996
Challow Hurdle Grade 1 31Dec94 Berude Not To Jamie Osborne £18,020
Challow Hurdle Grade 1 1Jan94 Large Action Jamie Osborne £17,075
Waterford Castle Arkle Challenge Trophy Chase Grade 1 10Mar92 Young Pokey Jamie Osborne £37,345
Scilly Isles Novices' Chase Grade 1 2Feb91 Tildarg Jamie Osborne £25,215
Baring Securities Tolworth Hurdle Grade 1 5Jan91 Change The Act Jamie Osborne £16,802
Sandeman Maghull Novices' Chase Class A Grade 1 6Apr00 Cenkos D J Casey £36,000
Network Design International Feltham Novices' Chase Class A (Grade 1) 26Dec98 Lord Of The River Jamie Osborne £22,715
Cleeve Hurdle Class A Grade 1 25Jan97 Large Action Jamie Osborne £25,640
Avonmore Hatton's Grace Hurdle (Grade 1) 1Dec96 Large Action Jamie Osborne £26,804
Long Walk Hurdle Class A Grade 1 16Dec95 Silver Wedge Jamie Osborne £25,996
Challow Hurdle Grade 1 31Dec94 Berude Not To Jamie Osborne £18,020
Challow Hurdle Grade 1 1Jan94 Large Action Jamie Osborne £17,075
Waterford Castle Arkle Challenge Trophy Chase Grade 1 10Mar92 Young Pokey Jamie Osborne £37,345
Scilly Isles Novices' Chase Grade 1 2Feb91 Tildarg Jamie Osborne £25,215
Baring Securities Tolworth Hurdle Grade 1 5Jan91 Change The Act Jamie Osborne £16,802
outpost, I seem to remember Gordon having the names of horses beginning with
the prefix winning at the cheltenham festival. Ribero does Jonjo train the
horses at Jackdaws Castle? a moot point.
the prefix winning at the cheltenham festival. Ribero does Jonjo train the
horses at Jackdaws Castle? a moot point.
copied from the internet so might not be true.
Gordon Richards will be remembered for his name as well as for the feat of training two winners of the Grand National in a magnificent career which spanned 34 years of National Hunt racing.
Born in Bath, the eldest of 10 children of a timber merchant, he was named after the legendary jockey Sir Gordon Richards, who was no relation. He had a "W" inserted as a middle initial on the insistence of a fastidious clerk of the scales in order to avoid confusion with his namesake when he started riding as an apprentice on the flat at Salisbury in 1944. At the time Richards was attached to the stables of J.C. Waugh and the "W" stood for Waugh.
Even so there were times when the two names were confused by both punters and racing's officialdom. Sir Gordon was once stopped by a well-wisher while holidaying in Barbados and congratulated on all the winners he had been training during the winter. On another occasion Richards was mistakenly sent Sir Gordon's account by Weatherbys, racing's secretariat, and he used to tell the tale with a smile saying: "I have never been so well off!"
Of course he was well off in his own right after many successful seasons as a trainer in the Cumbria village of Greystoke near Penrith. He owned property and land in the locality, where he handled a string of some 70 jumpers.
Richards's fortunes rode on the backs of some outstanding steeplechasers, beginning with Playlord and Titus Oates and continuing with the 1978 Grand National winner Lucius, followed six years later with another momentous Aintree victory via Hallo Dandy. His most recent stable star was the enigmatic grey One Man, winner of two King George VI Chases and last March hero of the Queen Mother Champion Chase at the Cheltenham Festival. Richards's brave fight against cancer prevented him from being at Cheltenham for One Man's emotional victory, which was probably the triumph he cherished most of all.
Gordon Richards will be remembered for his name as well as for the feat of training two winners of the Grand National in a magnificent career which spanned 34 years of National Hunt racing.
Born in Bath, the eldest of 10 children of a timber merchant, he was named after the legendary jockey Sir Gordon Richards, who was no relation. He had a "W" inserted as a middle initial on the insistence of a fastidious clerk of the scales in order to avoid confusion with his namesake when he started riding as an apprentice on the flat at Salisbury in 1944. At the time Richards was attached to the stables of J.C. Waugh and the "W" stood for Waugh.
Even so there were times when the two names were confused by both punters and racing's officialdom. Sir Gordon was once stopped by a well-wisher while holidaying in Barbados and congratulated on all the winners he had been training during the winter. On another occasion Richards was mistakenly sent Sir Gordon's account by Weatherbys, racing's secretariat, and he used to tell the tale with a smile saying: "I have never been so well off!"
Of course he was well off in his own right after many successful seasons as a trainer in the Cumbria village of Greystoke near Penrith. He owned property and land in the locality, where he handled a string of some 70 jumpers.
Richards's fortunes rode on the backs of some outstanding steeplechasers, beginning with Playlord and Titus Oates and continuing with the 1978 Grand National winner Lucius, followed six years later with another momentous Aintree victory via Hallo Dandy. His most recent stable star was the enigmatic grey One Man, winner of two King George VI Chases and last March hero of the Queen Mother Champion Chase at the Cheltenham Festival. Richards's brave fight against cancer prevented him from being at Cheltenham for One Man's emotional victory, which was probably the triumph he cherished most of all.
Gordon W was undoubtedly an outstanding trainer but I don't think he was anywhere near a top jockey.
Oliver Sherwood may well have been leading amateur but I am fairly certain he never turned pro. His brother did and was very successful but never took off as a trainer.
Oliver Sherwood may well have been leading amateur but I am fairly certain he never turned pro. His brother did and was very successful but never took off as a trainer.
Sherwood, 42, among the most polished riders of his era, won fame as Desert Orchid's jockey, jockey Simon Sherwood's first ride on Desert Orchid, the start of a partnership that was successful nine times in their ten races together.
partnering the grey champion to a memorable victory in the 1989 Cheltenham Gold Cup.
When he switched to training, Sherwood sent out two NH Festival winners in his first season.
partnering the grey champion to a memorable victory in the 1989 Cheltenham Gold Cup.
When he switched to training, Sherwood sent out two NH Festival winners in his first season.
Some strange offerings on here.
Josh Gifford was always an underachiever as a trainer. Mind you it could have had sonmething to do with his choice of stable jockeys.
Fred Winter and Fred Rimell are the only two I can think of who were champions in both disciplines.
Jonjo has probably come closest since.
Paul Nicholls was an ok jockey. At least a bit more sensible than suggesting Nicky Henderson was a top jockey.
Josh Gifford was always an underachiever as a trainer. Mind you it could have had sonmething to do with his choice of stable jockeys.
Fred Winter and Fred Rimell are the only two I can think of who were champions in both disciplines.
Jonjo has probably come closest since.
Paul Nicholls was an ok jockey. At least a bit more sensible than suggesting Nicky Henderson was a top jockey.
W.A Stephenson was a great amateur jockey riding 100s of winners as a trainer he was great.
There was only one Gordon Richards. Just as there was only one Stanley Matthews.
Surely Gifford's training career should not be judged by its later stages when he certainly went downhill but he was a bigger trainer than Jonjo imo earlier on.
Surely Gifford's training career should not be judged by its later stages when he certainly went downhill but he was a bigger trainer than Jonjo imo earlier on.
Don't agree,Salmon. He started off with a big yard full of horses. Obviously successful but never reached the heights.His horses rarely seemed to fulfil their potential.
Didnt it take gifford years to have a cheltenham festival winner?
Yes,ribero.About 20 years though tbf he did have a few more once he broke the ice.
.... All right have it your way then Bolty......Johnny Murtagh..
David Pipe and Christine Dunnett...........Lenny Lungo?
It is easy to scoff at amateurs who don't wish to turn pro. Jim Wilson, Nicky Henderson and Charlie Brooks were plenty good enough to turn pro if they had wanted to. Simon Sherwood might have stayed amateur but decided to turn pro and was champion jockey.
As the limerick goes...
There was once a professional jockey who rode a Cheltenham winner in the 1990s and went on to train a Cheltenham winner in the 1990s.
The anals of time have forgotten his name!
Anyone?
Btw - it may be a stetch to argue he was a top jockey, though he certainly got top rides
There was once a professional jockey who rode a Cheltenham winner in the 1990s and went on to train a Cheltenham winner in the 1990s.
The anals of time have forgotten his name!
Anyone?
Btw - it may be a stetch to argue he was a top jockey, though he certainly got top rides
sageform, simon sherwood was a decent pilot but never a champion jockey from memory, which year do you believe he won the Championship...?
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