Racing Post drop in sales

st there was a time when i bought both papers and thought nothing of it now i only buy the post on decent racing days.

I'm starting to think after reading this thread

that there is a gap in the market and the time is ripe for The Sporting Life or The Sporting Chronicle to make a comeback!

Proper racing journalists, independence from bookmakers, we would all have to promise to buy a copy every day


   i'll tell you were i'm at with this....i'm out!

too expensive for most

imagine spending over £2 on your daily newspaper somedays

what a shame but they seem to be out of touch, spending serious money on the i pad app when most of us do not use one is a mistake, you can be to far in front with new technology of your readership it could take years for us all to get a ipad.

The only way to get the readership back is to give the customers what they want interesting articles from readers and freelance racing journalists

a systems page, a punters readers page, make us buy it just like you could not miss the handicap book every week because you could gleam a idea or at least read something interesting about betting and gambling, most of us are not interested in a day in the life of a jockey or what the trainer has for breakfast
i bought the post from day one until 4 years ago i picked mine up everyday when i went to the newsagents he had 5 days posts waiting for me, it was time to call it a day because i had stopped reading nothing interesting

i would love to read it every day again but when all it contains is form then you can get that on line, what you cant get on line is decent ideas/systems/gambling and decent jounalist gambling/racing articles.

the market is crying out for a decent article led racing/gambling paper but due to start up costs i dont think we are going to get one

par i don't mind spending £2 pound on certain days because i like the form spread out on paper in front of me and have done for a lifetime i would much rather it was not the post but that's the way it is.

Heres the deal Racing Post  costs about £600 per year
Ruk / Sky sports costs £540 thats £1,140 before you have a bet  Ok ATR  is free  well you would not pay anything  for that  rubbish .
lets get back to £1.140  at 8%  profit on turnover you need to bet  about  £16.000 per year  just to pay for The Racing Post and RUK ..
Them are the facts..make your own mind up ..zipper

midnight line

One thing is for sure, no one at the racing post will take any blame for a drop in sales.

There are not enough people interested enough in the sport anymore for a new racing daily to work; no matter how well produced.

Don't agree Verb. For a start, there are many thousands employed in racing who'd buy the paper if it was sold at a reasonable cost and written by journalists who were in tune with the industry.

Ordinary punters would likewise cough up for a half-decent news sheet as opposed to something stuffed full of bookmaker-inspired PR material or trainers quoted about which horse runs where. It's lazy, cheap journalism - pure and simple, in my view.

If they concentrated on increasing circulation
They'd attract more advertising
To reduce the "Post" to an affordable price
Instead of shooting themselves in the foot.

Trouble is they don't survive from subs alone and advertising is a necessary evil. Apart from bookmakers who else is likely to advertise in a racing paper. You've guessed it - no-one.

the problem for any racing publication is the overheads

life was viable so long as it just stuck to the south

chronicle viable so as it had the north

I'm not quite sure what the reason was but i think it was the Life which went for a national market and put the Chronicle to bed but in the end the cost of getting to all ends of the UK, plus the cost of garnering the info for a specialist product, meant there was ever only room for one paper and it was the Post which replaced the Life

and now it, like all papers, is struggling

don't forget the Post's current owners paid far far too much for it and are having to pay off the money they borrowed to purchase it and this from a lower revenue stream than expected (unless the online Post is coming up trumps but unlike mooted above, I somehow doubt it)

Happy Valley. You are right about overheads, of course. But it's obvious that the Post isn't providing a product that many racing followers feel is value for money.

I submit that the only way to increase it's circulation is to improve the standard of editorial content. Unless the management faces up to this, then the UK will be without a specialist daily racing paper within a few years

PinHooker - I'm right with you about the editorial content, i have posted to that effect on this thread and many othr times on here and a few years ago I said the same to the powers that be at the Post about the lack of proper news in the paper compared to previous years, it had just become a load of iffs and maybes about running plans, sometimes a page would be led by what wasn't going to happen, ie something a non-runner, ok if it's frankel but it wasn't

(unless the online Post is coming up trumps but unlike mooted above, I somehow doubt it)

They may do alright out of the website, but I can't see this iPad push being anything but a white elephant. How many people are going to do any serious form study on a tablet?

You could have any amount of decent columnists and features etc .... BUT -

the ONLY way to RECOVER circulation sales is .................................

COVER PRICE

They would HAVE to HALVE the price - in order to get people actually BUYING it {b]again[/b] -
to, THEN, get them hooked - AGAIN - on decent regular writers.

Merely announcing - 'W'eve signed X, Y and Z to write regular columns' - will NOT reverse the dowmnward Circulation Sales spiral, without a DRASTIC  REDUCTION in Cover PRICE.

Dr Gonzo     18 Oct 12 20:03 

' .....I can't see this iPad push being anything but a white elephant. How many people are going to do any serious form study on a tablet?
--------------

Agreed, Gonzo.... certainly NOT ME.

But it now appears that BOTH the Racing Post and Bookmaker's TARGET audience/customers -
are  NO longer, "serious form study, " punters.

They could make it free and I still wouldnt touch with the current incumbents,double the price and get Sir Clement and Paul Haigh back and I would happily buy it,getting decent racereaders/summaries and it might would be a bonus.

go in bookies--hog the paper for 90 mins

GT-MOLE

not going to be easy to get the late Sir Clement back

Haigh probably much easier

we are extremely unlikely to get a new racing daily as the circulation figures alone could not support it.

these specialist publications, with only a small percentage of the population as readers, require lots of advertising simply to keep them afloat and apart from a few racing adverts once or twice a week, the only regular advertisers in a racing newspaper would be the bookies.

the same bookies who withdrew their adverts from the life to support the post are unlikely to desert their champion now in order to help a competitor.

the current situation works well for both the bookies and the RP and they will continue to be mutually beneficial to each other at the expense of the punter.

cannot believe that the cost can affect sales, with other daily, weekly, monthly, bills fluctuating wildly, filling the car up changes a tenner every month, utility bills up and down faster than a ****s drawers.

went into O2 change phone, told me my monthly contract I'd been paying for years, £35 a month should only be a £10.

shirley, a R/P 50p, £1, £1.50p or even £2 aint life changing.

didn't a new racing paper go under recently?

cannot believe that the cost can affect sales

You're right Barry. The cost of something affecting its sales is certainly a highly unusual occurence.

I would suspect that if another publication started up now, and it was one that was interested in working for its readership rather than seeking to exploit it with cynical third party propaganda at every turn, then people would jump ship without so much as a backward glance.

I have used this analogy before, but any punter currently giving his money to the Racing Post is like a turkey going out and buying the twelve inch of 'I Wish It Could Be Christmas Every Day' imo...

I think their annual price hike for the cheltenham festival will just about finish them this time round.

millhouse, wassa 12 inch?

it's a 12 inch record barry 
(not a world record but a musical record for playing on your gramaphone)

Two other factors:

The vast increase in fixtures over the last few years means the Post has to print a lot more pages with no increased advertising to pay for it.

Moving all (well, most) good races to weekends means there is less reason to buy the paper during the week.

There is no future for a daily racing paper costing £2+.  The Rp is in its death throes...it will eventually go under to re-emerge as a freebie funded by and for bookies......actually not that much different from what it is now.

T&C, freebie sounds good, who pays distribution and newsagents?

Only available in bookies

this is why they dont have a forum, any progressive site needs a community.

ffs the sportsman that right atleast.

this is why they dont have a forum, any progressive site needs a community.

They will not allow any criticism of themselves. Particularly the editor.

These are the figures that the Original Poster refers to ...

ANNUAL Comparisons .... July 2011 to July 2012

National dailies
•    Daily Mirror : 1,082,054 ; -8.74
•    Daily Record : 275,526 ; -9.73
•    Daily Star : 623,534 ; -11.78
•    The Sun : 2,550,859 ; -9.60
•    Daily Express : 555,544 ; -11.25
•    Daily Mail : 1,921,239 ; -6.29
•    The Daily Telegraph : 581,249 ; -8.34
•    Financial Times : 290,765 ; -13.61
•    The Guardian : 209,354 ; -15.85
•    i : 280,122 ; 52.51
•    The Independent : 83,619 ; -54.28
•    The Scotsman : 34,127 ; -12.47
•    The Times : 404,099 ; -8.41
•    Racing Post : 46,836 ; -15.34

National Sundays
•    Daily Star Sunday : 456,429 ; -35.13
•    The Sun (Sunday) : 2,157,482 ;
•    Sunday Mail : 312,042 ; -24.22
•    Sunday Mirror : 1,077,882 ; -39.66
•    The People : 459,032 ; -43.09
•    Sunday Express : 503,492 ; -22.40
•    Sunday Post : 276,250 ; -14.16
•    The Mail on Sunday : 1,779,449 ; -21.10
•    Independent on Sunday : 118,759 ; -28.99
•    The Observer : 245,094 ; -15.15
•    Scotland on Sunday : 41,492 ; -14.97
•    The Sunday Telegraph : 456,487 ; -8.95
•    The Sunday Times : 919,424 ; -7.48
------------------------

free newspapers are a great idea as long as you don't mind lots of non racing adverts as well as the racing ones.

there would probably be a pull out home buyers guide and a pull out car buyers guide as well as loads of other advertisers desperate to show their wares in a newspaper that they know is going to every house in the country.

the advertising revenue alone would cover distribution costs but you would have to search for the racing form in an advertising paper as thick as a telephone directory.

Black print on the fingers to blame?

I doubt there will be a daily newspaper in a few years time however there will still be a market for the post. I guess there will be a bigger shift to sports betting and online content/subscriptions and maybe a weekly print edition. I think Saturday sales of the post are ok but £1.90 an issue for weekdays just isn't worth the money.

The future for the RP is its internet business, as it is for most newspapers because  print technology is no longer cost-effective for fast communication of data.

Evening Standard  Free
Metro             Free
Time Out          Free
I                 20p
Racing Post       £1.90 (falling circulation)

Whats wrong with this picture?

For the Racing Post to run down its print edition to the extent that it takes twice as long to read because after every statement you have to ponder the truth of it, is crazy.They have a monopoly with the newspaper but when it comes to online there are sites that are much better plus there is nothing to stop new entrants joining the competition.If indeed the paper does cease to exist then the whole business would be worthless.

to the extent that it takes twice as long to read because after every statement you have to ponder the truth of it, is crazy


I would suggest that the only people the RP can possibly make any sense to any more are serial losing punters, for whom the bookmaker propaganda still applies.

Everyone else might as well be reading the screenplay to The Little Mermaid, for all the truth that exists on the pages...

millhouse

millhouse - I subscribe to the Racing Post website - I am not a serial loser and I use those parts of the site that are useful to me ....

You bang on about this at every opportunity - you really are full of yourself and give the distinct impression that you have cornered all the correct answers ...

By all means comment about the website in question but at least have some respect to those who find it a useful tool .....

All you lot complaining about the form coverage etc. ought to try the Paris-Turf.

It's pants - like a racing paper from the 1930s.

Even allowing for industry uptake it is still staggering that a publication as poor as the RP can shift 47k papers a day - just goes to show that no matter how bad an editor you have if you have a monopoly there is no motivation not to treat your readers with utter contempt...

crepello -good to know that a few people still find rp.com useful, do you really think is represents value for money though, particularly as many subscribers will also buy the print version?

I have no problem with £13 per month for the ESSENTIAL subscription to the Website.

I neither need, nor want, any Tipping Sections, Blogs, other bullsh!t,  or any of the other peripheral paraphernalia -

But, the Cards, Results, Form etc are - as it says - Essential.

Time Out is free now?

The Big 3 or is it 4 ..it dont matter they have too big a say
How many other business could stand a 3rd party taking out   hundreds  of millions  and putting very little back in
Greyform  a few years ago was a very good  paper  the bookies pull out  and it folded  if the bookies pulled out of the Racing Post it would not be on the news stand next week

Daily Mail : 1,921,239 

correct zipper

Crepello I wasn't really referring to the website, it's the newspaper I was talking about. I can see how you might find the form and racecards on the website useful, as it's all obviously pretty good.

Maybe unrestrained and unquestioned bookmaking industry propaganda is unoffensive to you, but in my view this newspaper's only real interest is to perpetuate the agendas of its business partners, and any punter that supports them is only making his life harder in the long run, imho...

Aviboyd - I would not subscribe if I did not think it value for money - I do not purchase the printed edition as I have little interest in articles that are published there - the website suits my punting as almost everything I need is there on the one site - that is not to say that it is likely to suit others - that is a personal choice of course ...

thin and crispy - that'a a very interesting point about Bookies publishing a freebie form paper/sports paper sometime in the future. i agree that could well be what happens if and when the RPost crashes (taking a part of me with it, so I hope it doesn't)

ramruna thanks for pointing out what we have all overlooked and that is the increased pagination brought about by some many extra meetings and these mainly crap ones on a weekday so causing serious cost increases but little commensurate jump in income

this is such a good point, imo, and reinforces the possibility of the spectre thin and crispy raised coming true

onlooker, gosh those stats for newspapers look depressing - they is Finnish!!

and i am with barry dennis on the price, i have been really surprised by the complaints about the cost. if you can afford to have a bet, surely you can afford to buy the betting paper.

is it that there are other apsects of the paper which annoy and that annoyance is coming out via the price than really via what is really p!ssing off the punters

i notice also that there have been relative few remarks about the sports betting section on this thread (save Steve Palmer) - now i know this is the racing forum but there is surely a big crossover.

my reading of this is that it is because this section is not taken at all seriously or expected to be as informative as the racing section, which is marked harder, so to speak,

rather than because the sports section is so pleasing and satisfying to its readership at the price in question

I stopped buying the R.P. simply because there is no form shown for the virtual horse racing.

Also in the sports section they never tip anything for the cartoon car races.

I can remember the days when you had to sort through dozens of video tapes to find the race you wanted to see. Now, you can almost instantly get to see the video of any race in the formbook. If that is not an improvement and worth a few quid a week, then I don't know what is.Plus, its much faster accessing ALL the form and not just the last 3 races. The daily paper is only worth buying if you go to the course as its better value than the race cards.

1.01

price goes to £2.50 chelt festival

Happy Valley     19 Oct 12 13:30 

is it that there are other apsects of the paper which annoy and that annoyance is coming out via the price than really via what is really p!ssing off the punters

i notice also that there have been relative few remarks about the sports betting section on this thread (save Steve Palmer) - now i know this is the racing forum but there is surely a big crossover.
----------------------------

1. - Disillusionment with the Editorial content = Fewer purchasers
     Fewer such purchasers = Inevitable Cover Price rise
     Cover Price rise = Even Fewer purchasers  ....
.....and so on - and so on

2. - "relative few remarks about the sports betting section on this thread"

..... Pop across to the Football Forum - for your fill of that....

on second thoughts - I don't want to depress you even further.

Sports betting  other than football  they are All a minor sport  Darts, Snooker, fishing
Any one remember  the TV boys had wrestling on each Saturday  finished on the dot at 4.00 oclock

I use to buy the racing post every day,now I never buy it  during the week because of the dross racing,i also use to buy The weekender but only for the Gerald delamere column,.
not bought it for years now

I buy the RP every day and have done for several years, and while the Racing Plus is perfectly adequate, imo it doesn't match the RP in terms of the quality of presentation of the cards, form and spotlights - which primarily is what I buy a racing paper for.
And as pointed out previously on the thread, some of us like to have the RP cards for convenience, and besides, it's what I'm use to working from.

While I can obviously see where millhouse is coming from, the paper still has non-bookie related material which is worth reading imo.

And as someone who is virtually a 100% exchange punter, save the odd tote / multiple bet, there ain't much bookie propaganda which is going to influence me.

Btw, one column I do miss is Tony Morris' pedigree analyses. Morris still writes for the paper occasionally, but presumably is semi-retired?

some drivel on this thread.

The Post is far better all round paper than the Life ever was.

Coverage of Greyhounds is Fabulous. . every card printed and full form for all open races (Life never did)

Plenty coverage of Football, Golf, Rugby and US sports (Life never did)

Horseracing coverage is fine.

Do you fellas really want 'better tipsters'!!! Pick your own selections ffs!!

And the price...about the cost of half a lager. If thats too much for you..you are in trouble!!

All newspapers in decline. In a few years it'll all be online.

Stop moaning ffs!!!

^ Greyhounds =  Minority interest - most people NO interestr

"Golf(Life never did)" .... pardon?

Jeremy Chapman covered GOLD in the LIFE - for MANY, many, YEARS before it closed, and he was THEN snapped up by the Post.

... and I will still be enjoying £2 per pint Beer later tonight, too.

lee h2, i suspect you have ome kind of affinity with the Post (me too btw!)

and i agree the Post is better than the Life ever was - Onlooker will disagree (vested interest there, too!) but let's not forget the rubbish Len Poole and Chris Gundry used to come up with in thier tips which amounted to "I like this one because I like this one". And what about that awful Court Circular column.

that said, i do not think the horse racing coverage is fine. there are some many guessing tipping columns nowadays. spotlights have deteriorated over the last four or five seasons, so many should go close IF this and IF that. well they are meant to be saying what is likely to happen. Will he handle the ground or not, given the relative odds. and i think the spotlight writers are not as good as they were. not at all. i know he isn't there anymore but i also thought James Willoughby's musings had a very limited market.

would be interested to know how many papers get sold because of greyhound coverage, with tracks closing all over the shop i have my doubts. this may be unpalatable but i fear it is correct. it could be argued that such extensive greyhound coverage is not viable commercially.

sure there is a very wide sports coverage but how much of it is a "must" read for anyone having a punt or just interested in sport. i mean if you are a sports fan, rather than a racing fan, is it good enough to make you buy the Racing Post as opposed to go online or use your own national paper.

as i've said above, I do agree about the price and am surprised this is a constant criticism but as it is, it probably has to be taken more seriously

yes newspapers are in decline to the point of Finnish as backed up by onlookers post above which shows the latest falls in circulation across the board.

Hah - another Nap obliges, told you Onlooker would disagree!

The wasen't much sports coverage in the Life because in the 70's and first half of the 80's  there was very little available to bet on :
Footy -  consisted of the fixed odds coupon where the the minimum number of selections on the main list was five, and three on a select list of difficult matches.
Golf - Could only bey on the four majors.
Tennis - Wimbledon, not even sure if there were markets on the other majors.
Rugby and Cricket - hardly remember any markets available.
Grand Prix - Am quite certain no betting available.

Is there any part of the industry bookmakers don't have control over?

The sport's finances are directly linked to their profits and as a consequence how that has affected the 'racing's' rules / race programme

Shares in Arena Leisure / SIS

They "power" RUK's coverage

They sponsor ATR

So what's the solution other than walk away from the sport?

My point being - millhouse is saying people should not buy the RP because of the influence he believes bookmakers have over the paper, so do we stop watching RUK / ATR because they too are under bookmaker control to a point?

George, for what it's worth, and despite years of loyal support for the Racing Post in particular, I have made a point of not giving my money to any of the above in any way - punters ruthlessly removing their business from media platforms that have made the commercial decision to take money to deceive them is the only way anything will ever change, imho...

Basically the Racing Post does not provide a fair representation of the facts and that it is why it has a readership that has declined to an unbelievable 45k..

I have more people on my Christmas card list..

That RP tipping column has had more half wits contributing than the letters page of "Liverpool FC Fanzine"...

If I read of one more columnist that has not had a bet because their computer has broken down or because they were on holiday then I will.....

Lee h2

Can you tell me what page the BAGS meetings cards for today are printed on please?

I see a list of names but no cards or form.

Ta

Today is a prime example of the RP not doing the job.Last night molerat let the forum know the score regarding Frankel,the ground and any doubts.The RP reported the same info a couple of hours ago.

The Life DID have a Sports Betting Section for quite a few of it's latter years.

With the likes of - Derek Shaw who 'did' the Football - Adrian Humphries(now on the Post) Snooker - aforementioned Jeremy Chapman - Golf etc, etc.

In fact the Sports Betting Section became so extensive that it needed it's own Editor..............

- the job went to a whipper-snapper who had previously been on the 'Dog Desk' ..... called Bruce Millington.

Lol onlooker,I remember a dog with the same name.

lee h2

19 Oct 12 17:48

some drivel on this thread.

The Post is far better all round paper than the Life ever was.

Coverage of Greyhounds is Fabulous. . every card printed and full form for all open races (Life never did)

That is you taking the rise obviously.

Isnt it strange slippy how the drivel seems to be majority opinion?

Actually onlooker there were two candidates...Derek McGovern who actually had a handle on what was going on and a certain young kennelhand who knew where the bodies were buried.....

Its no surprise with that prize clown as Editor, he should be driving around in a collapsible car and wear a spinning bow tie, every Thursday, I visit as many shops as possible and write a four letter word next to his ugly mug

Hft wouldnt it be a wonderful thing for youtube to superimpose Brucie boy on Tom Cruises neck in the scene with Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men?

Can you guess the scene?

Deptford...

How is it possible that the likes of him gets a gig on a paper that is supposed to represent the punters..

How can any owners let him spout NOTHING  in his weekly column.For Christs sake take on anther Editor and sell a few papers !!

GT MOLE...

The last film that I watched was Dambusters.Who is Tom Cruise...

Hft I worked for several years with the Americans (still do a bit),they hated my version of their version of the Dambusters........The Dumb Bastards.

Jack Nicholson "The truth" etc??????????? Shirley?

They plaster Pricewise over the front page every Sat. and meanwhile any shrewdie is limited to 10 pounds PW and any other standout selection in the big three.

The way they'd get me to buy the paper again is to offer a service, as part of the Members Club, that I could have the Pricewise box prize up to a certain takeout (2k wd make me a member) for any horse. The Post wd be my agent and their pooled bets would get on as a condition of the bookie advertising.

Otherwise I'll read it in the shop.

They still have not apologised for failing to tell people about the rule 4 on their front page after 5 non runners.

There isn`t 45 or 47thousand (whatever the fig ) bought by punters,don`t forget every bookie buys at least 1 sometime 2 copies.So you`re probably looking at circa 35-40 thousand bought by your punter.

My irk is that it has go to the point where the printed post is prepared to sacrifice lines of form for more advertising space. Not hard to be cynical about why, although the counter argument is that no-one bothers to read for any more - so why publish it.

ATR have gone to the bother of covering whole meetings in the past couple of years where the post haven't even published form lines.

Bookies devote their space to cartoon racing and promoting machines rather than putting form out. They look at you like a nutter if you lift up the paper to read the form behind (on the odd occasion I have to venture in).

What made racing interesting for me was that it was a semi solvable puzzle. Unfortunately, it is being bracketed with the mind numbing drivel, driven and paid for by those who have found an easier way to make a buck.. and the racing post seems happy to tow the line.

doantwin2easy - yes the bookies clearly trying to emulate situation in Oz where an "event" every 30 secs so no time to think and it sucks in all the semi addicted punters who must get a quick rush, so the live action becomes like a fruit machine, whirring and whirring around

racing post can't stand against this or really even point it out due to crippling financial position caused by paying too much for it in a signficantly declining market

but that's about the situation as it stands (there are plenty of good and talented people on the Racing Post, btw - though not as many as there used to be. Isn't that right Onlooker?

i don't remember derek mcgovern going for the job as Sports Editor on the Life. I do remember the antipathy which extended to their columns which existed between him and Millington and am sure it started with Millington making childish remarks.

punters ruthlessly removing their business from media platforms that have made the commercial decision to take money to deceive them is the only way anything will ever change, imho


and what do you envisage is going to change, millhouse? there is nowhere near enough advertising revenue coming into the sport to replace bookies ad money....the sport, the RP and the racing channels arent viable without bookies ad money....i think if it became common knowledge (in and outside of racing) that bookies only want the business of losing punters and refuse bets of any winners, you might see a sea change sufficient for them to change there ways to some degree, but not buying the RP or subscribing to RUK will achieve nothing

....other than to put them out of business if enough follow suit

Duncan, given that it is operating with an agenda that is absolutely against our interests, why would any right minded punter want the Racing Post to survive..?

You can't expect to shaft your own customers and then expect them to continue to bend over, imho.

I don't know whether you have ever run any businesses, but if you have you'll know that when commercial enterprises find they are losing customers, they re-evaluate the way they do business, and this is what I believe would happen if customers continue to drift away from these bookmaker infected media platforms.

I know that punters are no longer perceived by these organisations as their primary focus - clearly their real customers are the bookmaking industry - but if you have a haemorrhaging customer base, then you no longer have a critical mass to sell to those who want to manipulate it. Therefore if enough punters drew a line in the sand, these companies would all have to start standing in the corner of those watching and reading again, imho...

why would any right minded punter want the Racing Post to survive..?


personally, i still find it a useful aid to my work, having the colours in front of me and being able to make notes on the racecard works better for me when watching vids, doing sectionals etc than purely working from websites....i also prefer to read any relevant news in the paper copy rather than online cos my eyes stare at the pooter too long as it is....apart from pricewise b*ggering up prices occasionally, the tipping side of the paper is irrelevant to me

you talk about them haemorrhaging customers but i feel that is much more likely because i) people are gravitating to the website and ii) there is too much racing for people to get value out of a 100-page daily than for the reasons you give...there's not a paper out there that isnt experiencing falling sales, so i very much doubt the customers would come flooding back if they 're-evaluated the way they do business'

ps i've never owned a business but i have managed a shop

I think people have got long memories,when the post started,They put up a competitive price 10p -20p if i remember,the working class and poor were happy to pay that,but just look at the ridiculous price of the daily paper now?

It's still below hourly minimum wage

You see the post like most of the rest of the society ,ripped off the public so they could justify there over paid jobs,The false economy continues!

if that doesnt include internet subs then its to be expected really, but if it does they really are fooked imo

Slippy

I'm primarily a dog punter.

I used to love the Life but the Post is different class foe dog coverage.

Dog punters are spoiled rotten (remember there are only a few of us left!!)

Todays Post has 10 pages of coverage.


Articles
Runners at every Track in UK plus shelbourne
Full form for EVERY open race
Full Form for all RPTV race
results from every race in UK - plus comments for every open race result.

We (the few of us left) are spoilt rotten by it.

All this for probably a few hundred people who read this section.

They could save plenty of money if they simply put all this on the website.

Good luck

lee