Any joiners about

if you can force the insulation down with the batons to nail to the joists, you should be able to nail the chipboard to the joists also, thereby not needing the batons

Screw them down, if you nail them, then chances are you will crack the plaster on the bedroom ceilings.

tommysmum, from what I've read the insulation apparently circulating air to be effective. Also, pushing the insulation down can lead to sagging in the ceilings below.

Thx koi, I read that somewhere too.

Theres a few vajoiners about on this place.

16 inch centers then, same as joists should be.

feck, you need to screw your batons on top of the joists.

i have absolutey no idea - but may i suggest that you get a pro in and pay the going rate ya Feck N. Eejit

Are the joists in good nick Feck.....i've seen some older houses where they havnt really been suitable for load bearing.

btw - i wish i could spell absolutely correctly

use batons with 12 inch nails 5 in each one if out goes wrong at least your always trying just blame MJ

Tnx for the replies.

scaredm, yeh they seem ok.

swifty, why on top of the joists rather than at right angles?

Sorry swifty, were you meaning screw rather than nail (correct) as opposed to screwing the baton onto the joist long ways?

16 inch centers then, same as joists should be.

tommysmum, so that means one 8 foot length would be in contact with 7 batons? Is that not overkill?

feck, if your joists are only 4*2 then i would pack on top of the joists, if you lay your batons perpendicular then the weight is bearing only on the 2*2 batons. Plus you won't need to cut up all the insulation. Is this purely for storage? In which case try to load the weighty items near to the walls where the joists are bearing. If you are intending to use the loft space then you really need new 7*2 minimum joists which should be bolted to the 4*2 joists.

Just for storage swifty. Putting the batons on top and parallel to the joists would save having to cut a strip out of the top layers of insulation. Almost every thread I've seen on the subject someone suggests putting the batons at right angles but I don't see the advantages or logic in it myself. Thanks swifty.

Feck

I've been a Joiner for the best part of 40yrs and if I was doing it I would run the 2x2 battens in the opposite direction to your joists. Space them every 2ft to catch the joint and screw everything. If you run them on top of the joists you are not sure to catch the joint.. Good luck and watch yer back..

If your existing joists are 3x2 or 4x2 and spanning a distance of say 12 foot (unsupported), then just adding a 2x2 sawn, which in reality is just 46/47mm square, will add very little strength to the joist, so you will be relying on the chipboard alone to stop each individual existing joist from flexing when the floor is walked on, and will likely crack the plaster joints in the ceiling.

By having the 2x2 across the existing joists (or much better if the budget allows, 3x2) then the load is being spread over several of the existing joists causing less flex in individual joists. Yes, it will always be like a trampoline but better several/many joists flexing than just one.

Feck - do you know the difference between a joiner and a carpenter

Our Lord was a carpenter, Ronnie Biggs (on now) was a joiner.

Billy & Pugs, thanks for the advice. Funny enough Billy "watch yer back" was a thought that did enter my mind earlier.

thebrave, a carpenter is a joiner who is also a great prophet imo.

Another 2nd . I hope you're not Richard Hughes Billy.

Thinking about it Billy, spacing the battens so that either side of the boards sit on a batten is the way to go. Any advice on the positioning and number of screws per board?

pay someone you miserble coont...

Wish I had someone I could trust Slim. Every tradesman I get I end up having to tell them how to do the job. If you've got to stand over them you might as well do it yourself.

Feck - a joiner nails wid the gither, a carpenter paints cars

What's the old girl look like, is it the front or back loft that needs doing, I could call by
and put down some of my own piping, my baton is 9 by 3, do you think she'd like that.

Because its in the loft you don't have to go mad, 2x2 PAR battens (planed all round) screw every joist and screw the boards about every 2ft. You can lay the 2x2 as you go along if you want to save running out on the joint. Use 1 1/2 x6 screws for the boards, they get a good grip. 3 inch screws for the 2x2.. Watch your knees as well and any wires..

Feck, technically speaking you don’t have to support proper (tongue & grooved) chipboard flooring, and as Billy has 15yrs more experience than me I'm not going to criticise his 2 foot centres, but I wouldn’t go much more than 18inch centres because that's all chipboard was designed for. Floor boards or ply board would be ok at 2 foot but chipboard (only my opinion) would be at risk of cracking the tongue and groove. One screw every 12 to 16 inches would be ample

Sorry Billy, I type very slow

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, that's it i'm off to the ploughing c/ships in norfolk

Reading Billy’s post, I do over engineer slightly, but then again I am 18 stone

75mm x 50mm battens across joists screwed down every 400mm
battens laid down every 400mm
22mm chipboard fixed to battens by screws four in each batten
and make sure you glue all joints
easy peasy

Thanks pugs & whiteowl.

I take it those in the 400 mm camp are suggesting the length of the board should be perpendicular to the battens?

4 screws in each batten sounds overkill whiteowl. Surely 1 screw through the board into each batten would be enough given each board is held in place by the other boards?

Whiteowl, that’s almost exactly how I’d do it, but in far less words

Feck, you know you’re going to probably use 100+ 3 or 4 inch screws (depending on baton size) to screw the batons down, so forget the bad back and knees, if you don’t have 2 x 2.5mm/3mm long series pilot drills, an electric drill, a good quality cordless drill with back up battery and a few screwdriver bits, your wrist and forearm will be good for nothing for days, not even for the “Bet Now” button

Nope four screws to each batten
screw either side of joint at length of chipboard {4 screws on each board}
glued and screwed at these specifications you will have no problems trust me
its important to glue the boards except where any lifter boards are required
for access to any services

Feck, I think Whiteowl is thinking of an 8x4 board, where you would have somewhere in the region of 4 screws down each baton giving you a total of approx 16 screws per board.
You’re using 8x2’s so approx 8 screws per board is ample. And yes, you could set the end of each board in line (normally you would stagger, like with laminate flooring) but if you set the middle/last baton on the joint then no need to cut every other row of boards

Sorry Whiteowl, slow typing

No probs pugs
chipboard 2440x600x22
when laying the boards stagger the boards by at least 2 battens (800mm)
set out your boards so that your offcut will be your first board on your next line of boards
this is to cut down on waste

OK, thanks again everybody. I'm sure it will all work out if I don't go through the ceiling. I floored my own loft but that was 18 years ago. No tongue and groove, just chipboard 8' x 4' sliced in two with a circular saw to get it into the loft. It's still there and will still be there when I'm offski.

Feck, for what it’s worth I concur 100% with Whiteowl in the correct method for laying chipboard flooring. Aligning the end of boards (as I suggested earlier) often results in a poor uneven joint, and something I swear I have never done, well at least not whilst someone is watching me

plasterboard over loft hatch,forget about it and buy her a shed for storage

Feck I decked mine with 8x4 sheets whilst I was putting a new roof on my house, the trouble was it rained before I got the felt on and the chipboard is so soft I’m frightened to go up there now

I agree with what's said above. Don't buy sh!tty tongue&grooved boards which are a pain and more expensive than 8x4 boards.

Get the 8x4's and screw them down. This way if you need to get under them for electrics in the future you don't have to pull the full floor up. Also invest in cordless drivers and drills if you don't have them. Worth their weight in gold (don't buy cheap cordless although you can get away with a cheapish drill).

Use a place like this to buy screws in bulk. Never buy such things from B&Q - unless you're rich and very lazy

http://www.transtools.co.uk/

2" x 2" ?

Thanks again all.

666, I wouldn't be able to get 8 x 4 through the hatch.

Boom, that's the batons. Why the question mark?

Would this satisfy the 450 mm spacing crew. I put down 50 x 100 (2" x 4") such that they add 50 mm to height of joist. I space them with 500 mm between them and each board has 50 mm resting on each baton?

Feck
Use 75x50 battens 75mm is the height of existing joists
if you dont want to space the battens at 400 centres then
put them at 600 centres but if you are spacing them at 600mm centres then use 22mm chipboard
you can use 18mm chipboard if you space them out at 400mm centres
work out the cost difference then do the job to suit your budget

No I wouldn’t Feck. Far more expensive and if using chipboard it would still flex between your batons.

Feck, using 3x2 batons, 3 inch height at 400 centres would be better (less flexing between existing joist spans and the load would spread over a greater number of existing joists) but 2x2 will suffice (if your existing joist centres are no more than 16/18 inch) so it all depends on budget and the amount of use the floor is going to have. For very light use I personally would just use 2x2 (cheaper, lighter, less pilot drilling, shorter fixing screws, more head height) but I would not set the new batons at any more than 400mm centres or the chipboard will flex and the edges/joints may crack between them.

Beware when laying the 2x2 because they tend not to be very square i.e. 45x47, so lay them all on the 45mm width or the 47mm width.

Whiteowl, iv'e done it again

Wish I could get this much help, trying to find a winner

Ha Ha Pugs
Feck follow the advice by the guys on this thread and you really cant go wrong
good luck with your project and tell us how get on

Can't find winners so I LAY

Whiteowl, Feck, where do we all live? If she's pretty and has cold beer in the fridge we could knock this out in a few hours saturday morning

My early experience of boarding lofts was old chipboard wardrobes cut to size for joist / loft opening / roof pitch clearance and drilled directly to the joists ....  worked for me and a cheap job

Now days it's 320 mm of insulation recommended bollocks

And the modern loft ladder hatches are made of 20mm MDF shirley that's a waste of time insulating the loft to a high standard and then fitting a loft hatch that will let a lot of the heat through

Feck, if you have not already bought the chipboard make sure you get Moisture resistant board in case of moisture ingress, a real problem in lofts in this country. it well worth it if you are using the space for storage, and you don't plan to move anytime soon. It matters not what way you lay the 2x2 from a strength point. don't exceed 400 centres as chip particle bonded board has a low level of  elasticity. allow a minimum of 5cm around all edges for ventilation, you should not buy P A R 2x2 {planed all round) its much more expensive than rough sawn. P A R is for show you won't see it with the F'kin board on top !.

Will look nicer when the ceiling pops off though

Right, 400 mm spacing it is then. I'm beginning to think geos 23:25 post is the way to go.

Will look at moisture resistant boxing. Thanks.

Feck, where it says “joists” those are your batons. And obviously the board size is just the biggest you can get through your hatch, with baton centres to suit your board size. Easy peasey

http://www.mashomes.co.uk/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=Loft%20Flooring 

Thanks pugs.

Went up to measure the loft this morning and had a closer look. The insulation is such that I'd really have to add 4 inches to clear it but there's also heavy metal (iron?) conduit sticking up which 4" wouldn't even cover. I suppose I could work around the conduit but what about the insulation? Should I attach 2" x 2" directly on top of the joists then attach further 2" x 2" at right angles to that or should I strip away layers (2" worth) of the insulation?

Don't touch the insulation Feck.

Why Aviboyd? Would removing around 25% of the depth make that much difference?

Are they all at work?

all in the pub after a hard day joinering

It must be an old house???

The conduit will be carrying old cables, you will be able to cut it down to below the joists, just dont cut the cable

It's like iron though koikeeper. It's not like I can use a copper tube pipe cutter. A hacksaw job while having to be careful not to cut the cable would be purgatory. If I could bend them that would suffice but they're going into the light fittings so there's a chance I could cause cracks in the ceiling.

Call the pros in Feck, it ain't like you can't afford it !     

Pro tradesmen are rarer than straight trainers halycon. They are almost all cowboys who couldn't give a fk if your ceilings all collapsed the day after they've been paid.

Feck

The day my son was born in the early 80's it was Royal Ascot week, after coming home from the hospital after being there most of the night I settled down to study The Sporting Life. At one of the off meetings there was a horse called Carpenters Boy, I had a fiver on and it won at 17/2. Paid for wetting the babies head later on that night.

Has he become a chippie off the old block Billy.

Sorry, I'll get me coat.

He couldn't knock a nail in staight Feck, **** hot at poker though..

Bill,


good evening. Open fires... those were the days !

HD

Don't see many Coalmen these days, remember the leather waistcoats they used to wear.

coalman.jpg