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Clearly a champion horse but the question still remains if he is the greatest of all time why do connections feel the need to have dodged So You Think at Ascot which the majority of lot have rubbished for 12 months on here as being a massively over rated pretender?
Of course he would have beaten So You Think and I'm not for one minute arguing that he wouldn't have but by the same token why dodge him and yes make no mistake, they clearly dodged him and went for a much easier event at Ascot.
Farhh is a very nice horse, probably the best Godolphin have had for some time and arguably the best he's encountered this prep but until Frankel encounters genuine top class Group 1 performers Danedream, Nathaniel, the star 3yo Camelot etc in the Arc and thumps them then you can't logically argue that a horse whose connections continually refuse to take on the very best and who have cherry picked his races in order to protect his reputation is the greatest of all time.
The greatest of all time confronts every challenger and beats them convincingly, they don't beat up on the same horses or same type of horses time and time again, horses who are good horses but far from great ones.
And please don't bring up the ridiculous ratings that have been given to him which are clearly bias when you have the people who set them publicly stating in interviews how much they love the horse, ever heard of making an unbias assessment.
If I owned a horse this good there would no hesitation, you take on the best going around, confront them and dispose of them and then there is no argument as you have truly earned that ranking of the greatest of all time.
Bart Cummmings knew how valuable So You Think was after winning his second Cox Plate in succession something only the very best achieve then he backed that up with a demolition job of his rivals in the Mackinnon Stakes 3 days prior to the Melbourne Cup.
Yet Bart didn't try to protect the horses reputation he ran him in the Melbourne Cup because that is the Australian way, we don't hide from a challenge and if anything the courage that So You Think displayed after pulling ferociously, as hard as I've seen any horse pull in a Melbourne Cup and still perform well, proved categorically that his performance to still finish in the placings was simply outrageous.
He didn't lose any value in defeat, if anything his value was enhanced as astute racing people knew his performance was nothing short of outstanding under the circumstances and that he ran into a great stayer in Americain, who enjoyed a perfect trip in running and who was ideally suited by the track conditions and who was at the peak of his powers.
Clearly some in the UK do things differently though and rather than embrace a challenge, they avoid it.
Black Caviar who you lot have also rubbished, didn't shirk a challenge despite a long arduous record breaking racing season, her trainer and connections travelled halfway around the world and put her reputation on the line and she still won despite being injured and beat a genuine Group 1 star in Moonlight Cloud and despite this they have also been rubbished ever since, even though she won.
Ortensia's connections have gone to Dubai and conquered and now to the UK and conquered and still the "greatest" horse of all time can't even leave his own backyard and confront his destiny by simply crossing the channel and taking on genuine top class horses away from his comfort zone for the first and only time in his career in order to irrevocably erase any doubt over his place in history.
Of course he would have beaten So You Think and I'm not for one minute arguing that he wouldn't have but by the same token why dodge him and yes make no mistake, they clearly dodged him and went for a much easier event at Ascot.
Farhh is a very nice horse, probably the best Godolphin have had for some time and arguably the best he's encountered this prep but until Frankel encounters genuine top class Group 1 performers Danedream, Nathaniel, the star 3yo Camelot etc in the Arc and thumps them then you can't logically argue that a horse whose connections continually refuse to take on the very best and who have cherry picked his races in order to protect his reputation is the greatest of all time.
The greatest of all time confronts every challenger and beats them convincingly, they don't beat up on the same horses or same type of horses time and time again, horses who are good horses but far from great ones.
And please don't bring up the ridiculous ratings that have been given to him which are clearly bias when you have the people who set them publicly stating in interviews how much they love the horse, ever heard of making an unbias assessment.
If I owned a horse this good there would no hesitation, you take on the best going around, confront them and dispose of them and then there is no argument as you have truly earned that ranking of the greatest of all time.
Bart Cummmings knew how valuable So You Think was after winning his second Cox Plate in succession something only the very best achieve then he backed that up with a demolition job of his rivals in the Mackinnon Stakes 3 days prior to the Melbourne Cup.
Yet Bart didn't try to protect the horses reputation he ran him in the Melbourne Cup because that is the Australian way, we don't hide from a challenge and if anything the courage that So You Think displayed after pulling ferociously, as hard as I've seen any horse pull in a Melbourne Cup and still perform well, proved categorically that his performance to still finish in the placings was simply outrageous.
He didn't lose any value in defeat, if anything his value was enhanced as astute racing people knew his performance was nothing short of outstanding under the circumstances and that he ran into a great stayer in Americain, who enjoyed a perfect trip in running and who was ideally suited by the track conditions and who was at the peak of his powers.
Clearly some in the UK do things differently though and rather than embrace a challenge, they avoid it.
Black Caviar who you lot have also rubbished, didn't shirk a challenge despite a long arduous record breaking racing season, her trainer and connections travelled halfway around the world and put her reputation on the line and she still won despite being injured and beat a genuine Group 1 star in Moonlight Cloud and despite this they have also been rubbished ever since, even though she won.
Ortensia's connections have gone to Dubai and conquered and now to the UK and conquered and still the "greatest" horse of all time can't even leave his own backyard and confront his destiny by simply crossing the channel and taking on genuine top class horses away from his comfort zone for the first and only time in his career in order to irrevocably erase any doubt over his place in history.
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LOL....probably Treebeard yeah.
I love it too when people like northernlad5 make an attempt at an analogy to help prove their point when it's not even close to what they are comaparing it with.
He asks would Vettel be world champion and considered the best if he'd only won one Grand Prix as if Frankel has only ever won one Gr1 and so makes that analogy totally meaningless. He then asks would Federer be considered the best if he'd only won 1 Grand Slam and the same applies there too, totally meaningless but most people would still have also considered Fedderer a great had say he not won a French Open, just as McEnroe never, nor an Aussie open either but I'm sure most would say McEnroe was still one of the best ever.
He himself has decided Frankel doesn't stay 12f too, even though he didn't look like he was stopping to me at York or the fact that he just might still run in the Arc anyway, or at the very least that can't be dismissed yet but even if he did and won the Arc and retired, no doubt it will be argued he can't be considered the best because he only won once at 12f.
There's no check list that you can go ticking off criteria as you go along as to what decides whether a horse is the best or an all time great and despite the fact Frankel has won G1s at 7f, a mile and 10f, if that just makes him a great miler and not one of not the best horse ever to race then all Black Caviar can be considered is a "great" sprinter and nothing else and can't then be talked about as one of the best race horses ever.
I love it too when people like northernlad5 make an attempt at an analogy to help prove their point when it's not even close to what they are comaparing it with.
He asks would Vettel be world champion and considered the best if he'd only won one Grand Prix as if Frankel has only ever won one Gr1 and so makes that analogy totally meaningless. He then asks would Federer be considered the best if he'd only won 1 Grand Slam and the same applies there too, totally meaningless but most people would still have also considered Fedderer a great had say he not won a French Open, just as McEnroe never, nor an Aussie open either but I'm sure most would say McEnroe was still one of the best ever.
He himself has decided Frankel doesn't stay 12f too, even though he didn't look like he was stopping to me at York or the fact that he just might still run in the Arc anyway, or at the very least that can't be dismissed yet but even if he did and won the Arc and retired, no doubt it will be argued he can't be considered the best because he only won once at 12f.
There's no check list that you can go ticking off criteria as you go along as to what decides whether a horse is the best or an all time great and despite the fact Frankel has won G1s at 7f, a mile and 10f, if that just makes him a great miler and not one of not the best horse ever to race then all Black Caviar can be considered is a "great" sprinter and nothing else and can't then be talked about as one of the best race horses ever.
Messara is getting a taste of training Newmarket style, albeit with one horse, stable star Ortensia, one of the favourites for the Group 1 July Cup at Newmarket racecourse tomorrow.
Some of the best trainers in the world are based at Newmarket including Sir Henry Cecil of Frankel fame, Sir Michael Stoute, Luca Cumani, John Gosden and others, and Messara has taken the opportunity to learn from these masters of their trade.
“I’ve spent a couple of mornings at different stables, spent some time with Luca Cumani,” Messara said.
“It is fascinating, a very different style of training, The training facilities are very different to back home, they have a lot of staff in the stables, the tracks they race on are very different.
Some of the best trainers in the world are based at Newmarket including Sir Henry Cecil of Frankel fame, Sir Michael Stoute, Luca Cumani, John Gosden and others, and Messara has taken the opportunity to learn from these masters of their trade.
“I’ve spent a couple of mornings at different stables, spent some time with Luca Cumani,” Messara said.
“It is fascinating, a very different style of training, The training facilities are very different to back home, they have a lot of staff in the stables, the tracks they race on are very different.
Messara has taken the opportunity to learn from these masters of their trade.
just LMFAO at some of the posts on this thread!!!
Snowden was forced by Godolphin to run two horses that were out of form and whom he knew couldn't win Helmet was going like a busted arrse before he left Australia and was millions and Sepoy hadn't come back the same horse either in the autumn and is not a straight track and didnt handle the tapeta a fact that Snowden a fortnight beforehand when he expressed his concerns publicly about the horse failure to adapt to the surface.
This is how smart Godolphin have been in their placement of these australian horses given the track condition in the July Cup Soul would have just about won the race as he is an absolute swimmer, yet Godolphin run in him in a relatively minor Group race on the same day at a different meeting, Sepoy who has proven that he can't handle the wet insteads represents them in the July Cup, shocking placement of both horses. Sepoy also is nowhere near as good down the straight as he is around a bend, a fact that he proved time and time again in Australia, again shocking placment of the horse.
This is how smart Godolphin have been in their placement of these australian horses given the track condition in the July Cup Soul would have just about won the race as he is an absolute swimmer, yet Godolphin run in him in a relatively minor Group race on the same day at a different meeting, Sepoy who has proven that he can't handle the wet insteads represents them in the July Cup, shocking placement of both horses. Sepoy also is nowhere near as good down the straight as he is around a bend, a fact that he proved time and time again in Australia, again shocking placment of the horse.
and is not a straight track horse, he's won ons everal occasions at flemington down the straight but has never gone the same as he does around a bend.
Just for megsy who had a memory obliteration
FRANKEL (45) put up one of the most breathtaking displays of front running when setting an almost impossibly fast pace in the 2000 Guineas. He went so fast he was at least ten lengths clear at halfway and clocked times that would win top Group 1 sprints for the first five, six and seven furlongs.
Frankel was understandably tiring quite dramatically in the last half furlong but was still half a dozen lengths clear at the line.
FRANKEL (45) put up one of the most breathtaking displays of front running when setting an almost impossibly fast pace in the 2000 Guineas. He went so fast he was at least ten lengths clear at halfway and clocked times that would win top Group 1 sprints for the first five, six and seven furlongs.
Frankel was understandably tiring quite dramatically in the last half furlong but was still half a dozen lengths clear at the line.
Can anyone name a race Frankel could even race in in Aus? Only ones I can think of at G1 1600 m level are handicaps, where he would be handicapped to death. Emirates Stakes. George Main stakes are the only two big ones I can think of.
Sadly there are "still" some punters & other racing people that think Frankel is not one of the best EVER. They will not be happy until he gets beaten (which wont happen) and will always "try" to find fault in what the GREAT horse has achived in the last 3 seasons, madness in my book.
I have NO doubt what so ever, that Frankel is one of the racing greats, prob the best ever to grace the racecourse.
I have never been more impressed by a racehorse since Dancing Brave until this fellow came along (Frankel) For my money, Frankel would be to gd for The Brave over 1m & 1m2f, over 1m4f who knows?
I dont expect Frankel to run in the Arc or in the USA, & personally i dont think he needs to, as the Arc can be a very messy & rough race run on bad ground with way to many runners for a G1 race, bad ground alone would rule him out. If he were yours or mine (if only) would you be willing to let him race (for the 1st time) over 1m4fs on bad ground & from say (stall 20 of 20) in the Arc?? NO WAY ON EARTH WOULD YOU!!!
I very much hope & expect the two Great Men (Sir Henry & The Prince) will stick to there plans & finish Frankels Brilliant & expertly handled racing life in style, by winning the Champion Stakes on Champions Day at Ascot.
I have NO doubt what so ever, that Frankel is one of the racing greats, prob the best ever to grace the racecourse.
I have never been more impressed by a racehorse since Dancing Brave until this fellow came along (Frankel) For my money, Frankel would be to gd for The Brave over 1m & 1m2f, over 1m4f who knows?
I dont expect Frankel to run in the Arc or in the USA, & personally i dont think he needs to, as the Arc can be a very messy & rough race run on bad ground with way to many runners for a G1 race, bad ground alone would rule him out. If he were yours or mine (if only) would you be willing to let him race (for the 1st time) over 1m4fs on bad ground & from say (stall 20 of 20) in the Arc?? NO WAY ON EARTH WOULD YOU!!!
I very much hope & expect the two Great Men (Sir Henry & The Prince) will stick to there plans & finish Frankels Brilliant & expertly handled racing life in style, by winning the Champion Stakes on Champions Day at Ascot.
Especially the parts in CAPITALS!
Those alone have convinced me
Those alone have convinced me
the aussies won't accept frankel as a great horse until he can win over the plodders distance of the melbourne cup.
Come on now geoff m be serious, megsy will tell us that Frankel was actually speeding up and going faster in the final furlong and that it's all in the sectionals and we know nothing about times in this country as they aren't traditionally used here, so that obviously means none of us know for example that 11 seconds last longer than 10 seconds. 
He thinks a horse that has already run 7f and really quickened say 3f out and put in his fastest 2f between the 3f and 1f out markers can still sustain that and go even faster in that final furlong despite already having run 7f earlier. Oh and Dubawi Gold and Native Khan were actually really quickening and closing Frankel down in the 2000gns, it has nothing to do with Frankel tiring slight for the final furlong and nothing to do either with those 2 horses running passed beaten horses that had tried to match strides early with Frankel but were seen off and so were dropping back!
Horses like:
7th - Pathfork - Prominent in main group, ridden and no headway halfway, no chance final 2f
10th - Casamento - Chased clear winner after 2f, ridden and no headway over 3f out, lost place and well beaten over 2f out, tailed off
11th Roderic O'Connor - Prominent in main group, ridden and struggling over 3f out, well behind final 2f, tailed off
Yet note the difference here:
2nd - Dubawi Gold - Steadied start, held up towards rear, headway halfway, disputing modest 2nd and hung left 2f out, chased clear winner over 1f out, kept on but no threat to winner
3rd - Native Khan - Held up off the pace in midfield, ridden and headway over 3f out, chased clear winner well over 2f out until over 1f out, kept on but no threat to winner
A quote from a leading Aussie expert of sectional timing:
Horses decelerate at the finish. The everyday punter assumes that the closing sectional is the fastest of the race but often that's not the case.
He thinks a horse that has already run 7f and really quickened say 3f out and put in his fastest 2f between the 3f and 1f out markers can still sustain that and go even faster in that final furlong despite already having run 7f earlier. Oh and Dubawi Gold and Native Khan were actually really quickening and closing Frankel down in the 2000gns, it has nothing to do with Frankel tiring slight for the final furlong and nothing to do either with those 2 horses running passed beaten horses that had tried to match strides early with Frankel but were seen off and so were dropping back!
Horses like:
7th - Pathfork - Prominent in main group, ridden and no headway halfway, no chance final 2f
10th - Casamento - Chased clear winner after 2f, ridden and no headway over 3f out, lost place and well beaten over 2f out, tailed off
11th Roderic O'Connor - Prominent in main group, ridden and struggling over 3f out, well behind final 2f, tailed off
Yet note the difference here:
2nd - Dubawi Gold - Steadied start, held up towards rear, headway halfway, disputing modest 2nd and hung left 2f out, chased clear winner over 1f out, kept on but no threat to winner
3rd - Native Khan - Held up off the pace in midfield, ridden and headway over 3f out, chased clear winner well over 2f out until over 1f out, kept on but no threat to winner
A quote from a leading Aussie expert of sectional timing:
Horses decelerate at the finish. The everyday punter assumes that the closing sectional is the fastest of the race but often that's not the case.
Dr Gonzo
There is one thing that hasn't been taken into consideration with Frankel – his recovery time between races. Frankel has needed an average recovery time of 5 weeks between races.Cockney Rebel only needed 3 weeks before going on to win the Irish 2000 easily. Why didn't Frankel?
Obvious answer is he was not fit enough to take his place. If he had run and won would he have been fit enough to run in the St James & win it? Cockney Rebel up until the time he was injured in the St James & retired. 3yo career is better than Frankel's. Even you lot can't argue that Frankel winning 1 Classic in 6 weeks is better than Cockney Rebel winning two Classics in 3 weeks. & there are many other Guineas winners that did the double.
Why didn't Frankel go for the French Derby 1m2f or the Eclipse 1m2f as Mill Reef did as a 3yo. Instead of the St James? And don't tell me they had it all worked out. Frankel was entered for the Epsom Derby. After weakening in the final furlongs he finished spent in the Guineas and even 1m2f was considered too far for him. The St James is just a group one and doesn't have anything like the value or the prestige of the French Derby or the Eclipse, are you seriously trying to say his connections
saw the St James as a superior prize?
The racing equivalent of Grand Prix's & Grand Slams is the Classics English/Irish/French, the Arc & the King George.
In tennis terms, the St James, Sussex etc. would be more like winning Queens.
There is one thing that hasn't been taken into consideration with Frankel – his recovery time between races. Frankel has needed an average recovery time of 5 weeks between races.Cockney Rebel only needed 3 weeks before going on to win the Irish 2000 easily. Why didn't Frankel?
Obvious answer is he was not fit enough to take his place. If he had run and won would he have been fit enough to run in the St James & win it? Cockney Rebel up until the time he was injured in the St James & retired. 3yo career is better than Frankel's. Even you lot can't argue that Frankel winning 1 Classic in 6 weeks is better than Cockney Rebel winning two Classics in 3 weeks. & there are many other Guineas winners that did the double.
Why didn't Frankel go for the French Derby 1m2f or the Eclipse 1m2f as Mill Reef did as a 3yo. Instead of the St James? And don't tell me they had it all worked out. Frankel was entered for the Epsom Derby. After weakening in the final furlongs he finished spent in the Guineas and even 1m2f was considered too far for him. The St James is just a group one and doesn't have anything like the value or the prestige of the French Derby or the Eclipse, are you seriously trying to say his connections
saw the St James as a superior prize?
The racing equivalent of Grand Prix's & Grand Slams is the Classics English/Irish/French, the Arc & the King George.
In tennis terms, the St James, Sussex etc. would be more like winning Queens.
Entered for the Derby !
Don't know about this years but..........
There was 442 entries for the 2013 Derby. Just about every decent two year old in the top trainers yards.
Don't know about this years but..........
There was 442 entries for the 2013 Derby. Just about every decent two year old in the top trainers yards.
That's your definition and maybe not the best one either too considering in theory you could be an F1 world champion with one Grand Prix win all season or that a male horse can only run in 3 classics in each country per season and isn't likely to run in all of them at the same trip let alone all of them and over various trips.
As for the St James's being tennis's Queen's, that's the race where often the ones beaten in the classics win and reverse form with classic winners or the one where 3YO champions/classic winners from 2 or 3 countries face each other and bar a 3 way dead heat, they can't all win and so are often harder to win than some classics.
Frankel won the 2000gn and SJP in his year and didn't run in Ireland. Canford Cliffs was beaten at Newmarket but won the Irish 2000gns and then the SJP and in winning the SJP reversed Newmarket form with Mafki and D1ck Turpin. Presumably the Arc matters because it's one of the biggest 12f races for all aged runners, well the Sussex is the same for all aged milers and neither are classics either.
I'm not saying this is definitely the reason that Frankel didn't run in the Irish 2000gns but many recent winners at Newmarket's 2000gns have gone straight there without a run like Cockney Rebel did but Frankel had already had a run before the 2000, so seeing as the SJP is almost like a 3YO championship mile race, if he also ran in Ireland and/or France then it would have made the SJP his 4th or 5th start that season, plus I suppose there was also the possibility of going for the Derby or the French Derby with Frankel too.
Then again they might have just thought with the manner of his 2000gns win they would give him a bit more time between that race and the next and his connections don't decide the dates of these races so had little choice in the matter.
As for the St James's being tennis's Queen's, that's the race where often the ones beaten in the classics win and reverse form with classic winners or the one where 3YO champions/classic winners from 2 or 3 countries face each other and bar a 3 way dead heat, they can't all win and so are often harder to win than some classics.
Frankel won the 2000gn and SJP in his year and didn't run in Ireland. Canford Cliffs was beaten at Newmarket but won the Irish 2000gns and then the SJP and in winning the SJP reversed Newmarket form with Mafki and D1ck Turpin. Presumably the Arc matters because it's one of the biggest 12f races for all aged runners, well the Sussex is the same for all aged milers and neither are classics either.
I'm not saying this is definitely the reason that Frankel didn't run in the Irish 2000gns but many recent winners at Newmarket's 2000gns have gone straight there without a run like Cockney Rebel did but Frankel had already had a run before the 2000, so seeing as the SJP is almost like a 3YO championship mile race, if he also ran in Ireland and/or France then it would have made the SJP his 4th or 5th start that season, plus I suppose there was also the possibility of going for the Derby or the French Derby with Frankel too.
Then again they might have just thought with the manner of his 2000gns win they would give him a bit more time between that race and the next and his connections don't decide the dates of these races so had little choice in the matter.
AHH AHH AHHHCHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!
Excuse me, must be ima_mugs bullshyt im allergic to.
CANT COMMENT ON SO MUCH BULLSHYT, AHH AHH AHHHCHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!
SO, NO COMMENT FROM ME
Excuse me, must be ima_mugs bullshyt im allergic to.
CANT COMMENT ON SO MUCH BULLSHYT, AHH AHH AHHHCHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!
SO, NO COMMENT FROM ME
$3,000,000 WFA Cox Plate 2000m Moonee Valley, $1,000,000 Mackinnon Stakes WFA a week later over 2000m, $400,000 Underwood Stakes Group 1 WFA over 1800m at Caulfield, $500,000 Group 1 Turnbull Stakes Set weights and penalties 2000m at flemington, 400,000 Group 1 WFA Caulfield Stakes over 2000m at Caulfield, and that's only the victorian spring carnival, so that illustrates yet again your lack of knowledge mate, all those races with the exception of the Turnbull are WFA and that doesnt include several WFA Group 2's one 2400m the Sandown Classic at Sandown worth $350,000 a week after the Melbourne Cup carnival, and the Group 2 WFA $300,000 Makybe Diva Stakes at Flemington over 1600m.
After the sandown race there is the $500,000 Group 1 WFA Kingston Town Classic over 1800m at Ascot and the 2100m Group 2 WFA CB Cox Stakes over 2100m at Ascot. during the WA Ascot summer carnival during early summer.
There is a similar program in the autumn to the spring program in victoria which leads up to the $1,000,000 WFA Australian cup over 2000m at Flemington then you move onto the Sydney carnival with the $400,000 Group 1 WFA Ranvet Stakes over 2000m at Rosehill which is the lead up event for the $2,250,000 Group 1 WFA BMW Stakes over 2400m at Rosehill.
Should I keep going or or have you had enough of your complete and utter ignorance of Australian racing being exposed mate.
After the sandown race there is the $500,000 Group 1 WFA Kingston Town Classic over 1800m at Ascot and the 2100m Group 2 WFA CB Cox Stakes over 2100m at Ascot. during the WA Ascot summer carnival during early summer.
There is a similar program in the autumn to the spring program in victoria which leads up to the $1,000,000 WFA Australian cup over 2000m at Flemington then you move onto the Sydney carnival with the $400,000 Group 1 WFA Ranvet Stakes over 2000m at Rosehill which is the lead up event for the $2,250,000 Group 1 WFA BMW Stakes over 2400m at Rosehill.
Should I keep going or or have you had enough of your complete and utter ignorance of Australian racing being exposed mate.
So much for there not being any suitable race that Frankel could run in not to mention the sensational HK International day at Sha Tin where there is the Group 1 2400m Hong Kong Vase WFA and the Group 1 2000m WFA Hong Kong Cup on the same card worth several million after the Melbourne Cup carnival.
LOL.....poor megsy, you must be about the only one in both hemispheres who can't see how pathetically desperate that last post of yours really was and lets face it, you've created plenty of challengers to have given it a run for its money. You've clearly tied yourself up in so many knots, you were like a someone having a heart attack mid fcuk and didn't know whether you were coming or going and clearly had nothing of any logic or relevance to come back with by way of a meaningful response, yet still felt duty bound to at least post something as a show of misguided defiance.
The moon is made of cheese. There see, I've said it so therefore it must be true, just like if you say my previous post was bullsh1t is obviously must also be true.......well true in megsyvilleland at least.
According to your logic (or lack of) on sectionals, Frankel must have been going faster in the final furlong in the SJP than he was in the 3 individual furlongs before that. Yet the rest of the planet (and probably you on another day) have all said that was the one and only time where he has ever looked vulnerable, was least impressive and was weakening at the line with others closing in on him.
If you're allergic to bullsh1t megsy you must be the biggest self harming sadomasochist out there and I can just see you now, typing away in your gimp mask and nipple clamps, with an industrial sized tub of calamine lotion sat there with the seal broken and lid already off in readiness, as you simply ooze bullsh1t with it spilling out from every pore!
The moon is made of cheese. There see, I've said it so therefore it must be true, just like if you say my previous post was bullsh1t is obviously must also be true.......well true in megsyvilleland at least.
According to your logic (or lack of) on sectionals, Frankel must have been going faster in the final furlong in the SJP than he was in the 3 individual furlongs before that. Yet the rest of the planet (and probably you on another day) have all said that was the one and only time where he has ever looked vulnerable, was least impressive and was weakening at the line with others closing in on him.
If you're allergic to bullsh1t megsy you must be the biggest self harming sadomasochist out there and I can just see you now, typing away in your gimp mask and nipple clamps, with an industrial sized tub of calamine lotion sat there with the seal broken and lid already off in readiness, as you simply ooze bullsh1t with it spilling out from every pore!
AHH AHH AHHHCHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!
Excuse me, fcuk the bullshyts thick .
Excuse me, fcuk the bullshyts thick .
According to your logic (or lack of) on sectionals, Frankel must have been going faster in the final furlong in the SJP than he was in the 3 individual furlongs before that
according to me fcukwit it was the opposite way around.you claim that as fact about BC, dont twist your story to suit as you always do you filthy scum.
AHH AHH AHHHCHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!
bye now
according to me fcukwit it was the opposite way around.you claim that as fact about BC, dont twist your story to suit as you always do you filthy scum.
AHH AHH AHHHCHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!
bye now
3yo career is better than Frankel's. Even you lot can't argue that Frankel winning 1 Classic in 6 weeks is better than Cockney Rebel winning two Classics in 3 weeks
You're right, we'll just ignore the other four races Frankel won as a 3yo
You're right, we'll just ignore the other four races Frankel won as a 3yo
megsy • August 28, 2012 10:42 PM BST
like i said before.
i would like to see Frankel race without cover for once, not tucked away behind he's pacemaker with the run of the race,use a bit of energy his opposistion have to use
Still ignoring the 2000 guineas Megsy .
The greatest ever front running display in a classic
like i said before.
i would like to see Frankel race without cover for once, not tucked away behind he's pacemaker with the run of the race,use a bit of energy his opposistion have to use
Still ignoring the 2000 guineas Megsy .
The greatest ever front running display in a classic
absolutely nothing wrong with any horse needing "a bit of cover" during a race.
some horses are best out in front making all and some are better covered up to keep something back for the finish.
Frankel is one of the few horses who can run both ways although I think they prefer it when he's covered up.
he has also never had a pacemaker since last year, but everyone knows this as it has been mentioned regularly.
(just doesn't suit some folk to admit it though)
the horse that leads him up the gallops every day gets entered in his races just to keep him settled early on, not to set the pace.
he is not a pacemaker, he is simply a lead horse, and to be perfectly honest, I think york proved that frankel does not really need anything anymore to keep him settled in a race.
frankel gets better with every run and with every step up in distance and all his detractors on here must secretly be praying that he goes for the champion stakes instead of the arc, as they know then they can still pretend with their made up
nonsense about him avoiding others when the whole world knows that it's the others who are avoiding him.
some horses are best out in front making all and some are better covered up to keep something back for the finish.
Frankel is one of the few horses who can run both ways although I think they prefer it when he's covered up.
he has also never had a pacemaker since last year, but everyone knows this as it has been mentioned regularly.
(just doesn't suit some folk to admit it though)
the horse that leads him up the gallops every day gets entered in his races just to keep him settled early on, not to set the pace.
he is not a pacemaker, he is simply a lead horse, and to be perfectly honest, I think york proved that frankel does not really need anything anymore to keep him settled in a race.
frankel gets better with every run and with every step up in distance and all his detractors on here must secretly be praying that he goes for the champion stakes instead of the arc, as they know then they can still pretend with their made up
nonsense about him avoiding others when the whole world knows that it's the others who are avoiding him.
geoff m
Date Joined: 23 Feb 03 Add contact | Send message When: 30 Aug 12 10:47 Joined: Date Joined: 23 Feb 03 | Topic/replies: 4,292 | Blogger: geoff m's blog
Still ignoring the 2000 guineas Megsy .
The greatest ever front running display in a classic
tell me how that same field has faired since, as good a horse as frankel is, that was a piss poor field, nothing to get wound up about and a very slowly run race, TIME 1m 37.30s (slow by 1.80s) on good to firm track.
and please dont say Roderic O'Connor who last raced as SYT's pacemaker.
Date Joined: 23 Feb 03 Add contact | Send message When: 30 Aug 12 10:47 Joined: Date Joined: 23 Feb 03 | Topic/replies: 4,292 | Blogger: geoff m's blog
Still ignoring the 2000 guineas Megsy .
The greatest ever front running display in a classic
tell me how that same field has faired since, as good a horse as frankel is, that was a piss poor field, nothing to get wound up about and a very slowly run race, TIME 1m 37.30s (slow by 1.80s) on good to firm track.
and please dont say Roderic O'Connor who last raced as SYT's pacemaker.
you australians must all believe that So You Think is an absolute donkey as he has never won over 12f, since it seems horses must win over 12f to be considered good.
actually, ive always believe SYT was a miler in the UK...2000m in oz
it's OK - nothing wrong with being a miler - some great milers around.
even some horses that run over less than a mile are considered decent.
even some horses that run over less than a mile are considered decent.
Still ignoring the 2000 guineas Megsy .
The greatest ever front running display in a classic.
Also the Sussex Stakes 2011.
If it wasn't for Bullet Train Frankel would have to make all his own running from start to end in every race - risking souring the horse's appetite for racing.
The greatest ever front running display in a classic.
Also the Sussex Stakes 2011.
If it wasn't for Bullet Train Frankel would have to make all his own running from start to end in every race - risking souring the horse's appetite for racing.
Your point Megsy was the following
i would like to see Frankel race without cover for once, not tucked away behind he's pacemaker with the run of the race,use a bit of energy his opposistion have to use.
The simple bit (you should be ok with this)If you cant see that Frankel raced without cover & used a bit of enery in that race its time to pack up.
A bit more tricky for you the times of races are governed by a number of variable factors not least which is overlooked on many occassion is the wind factor:
Newmarket is a wide open track & if you bothered to check a strong headwind was blowing that day which is why all the other races that day where slow by comparison with other yrs of similar ground
Sea The Stars & Cockney Rebel are 2 of the fastest 2000 gns this century however when you equate a timefigure to there performance compared with other races run the same day you will find Frankel put up a better speed performance.
The 3 fastest 2000 guineas winners are Mister Baileys/Pennekamp/Cockney Rebel not 1 of them would make it to the top 20 of all time milers
i would like to see Frankel race without cover for once, not tucked away behind he's pacemaker with the run of the race,use a bit of energy his opposistion have to use.
The simple bit (you should be ok with this)If you cant see that Frankel raced without cover & used a bit of enery in that race its time to pack up.
A bit more tricky for you the times of races are governed by a number of variable factors not least which is overlooked on many occassion is the wind factor:
Newmarket is a wide open track & if you bothered to check a strong headwind was blowing that day which is why all the other races that day where slow by comparison with other yrs of similar ground
Sea The Stars & Cockney Rebel are 2 of the fastest 2000 gns this century however when you equate a timefigure to there performance compared with other races run the same day you will find Frankel put up a better speed performance.
The 3 fastest 2000 guineas winners are Mister Baileys/Pennekamp/Cockney Rebel not 1 of them would make it to the top 20 of all time milers
The wind, you are kidding mate, so let me get this straight, the "greatest" horse of all time is worried about a large field and a little bit of hustle and bustle and a bit of wind, the only wind on here is the hot air various clowns spew forth on here attempting to justify fantasy as fact.
Dr. Gonzo,
I'm simply questioning why Frankel didn't go & win the Irish 2000 if he was fit enough after the English? Many Guineas winners have done the double. Some have then gone on to win the St James as
well. It's the sheer lack of intensity, - needing on average 5 weeks recovery time, no step up in trip even up to 1m2f. A step down in Class from a Classic to G1's. No taking on older horses in the Eclipse, the Judd International or the Champion because as a 3yo he simply wouldn't stay 1m2f.
If you want to compare Frankel's 4 G1's with a horse (Cockney Rebel) that had been injured & retired, then you really are scraping the barrel & not doing Frankel any favors at all.
If you put Frankel's 3yo career under the spotlight, apart from his 2000 win, it is seriously lacking both intensity & quality.
I'm simply questioning why Frankel didn't go & win the Irish 2000 if he was fit enough after the English? Many Guineas winners have done the double. Some have then gone on to win the St James as
well. It's the sheer lack of intensity, - needing on average 5 weeks recovery time, no step up in trip even up to 1m2f. A step down in Class from a Classic to G1's. No taking on older horses in the Eclipse, the Judd International or the Champion because as a 3yo he simply wouldn't stay 1m2f.
If you want to compare Frankel's 4 G1's with a horse (Cockney Rebel) that had been injured & retired, then you really are scraping the barrel & not doing Frankel any favors at all.
If you put Frankel's 3yo career under the spotlight, apart from his 2000 win, it is seriously lacking both intensity & quality.
There was a crosswind on Guineas day, which affected the times of all the races. Then again, you obtuse Aussies (are there any other) think that quality of races depends on number of runners, times and prizemoney.
I'm not an Aussie!
When it comes to judging racehorses I don't have a nationality.
As I said before - this isn't football.
And Frankel the so called 'greatest of all time', when you look at his un-intense & poor quality 3yo record, is simply ridiculous.
Just as England are always going to win the World Cup/Euro's
(according to you lot -"Football's coming home")
until they get dumped out.
Try to be unbiased & judge racehorses on what they have actually
acheived!
When it comes to judging racehorses I don't have a nationality.
As I said before - this isn't football.
And Frankel the so called 'greatest of all time', when you look at his un-intense & poor quality 3yo record, is simply ridiculous.
Just as England are always going to win the World Cup/Euro's
(according to you lot -"Football's coming home"
)until they get dumped out.
Try to be unbiased & judge racehorses on what they have actually
acheived!
Ver naieve if you dont think wind makes a difference to overall times.
Ary you really that thick.
As for cockney rebels year the wind was from across/ behind
Ary you really that thick.
As for cockney rebels year the wind was from across/ behind
Thet say yer canna educate pork but we will have a go.
York
The overall time of 2 min 06.59 sec was 1.30 seconds outside the course record set by Sea The Stars in this race in 2009. But, crucially, all the times were slower in 2012 than for the equivalent races three years earlier. Once you adjust for conditions, including wind, Frankel's performance against the clock emerges comfortably the better.
Indeed, Frankel's Timeform timefigure comes out at 136, which is the equal of his timefigure in the 2000 Guineas last year and means that he has the two best time-based ratings by any horse this century.
Got to try something better with a bit of meaning guys.
York
The overall time of 2 min 06.59 sec was 1.30 seconds outside the course record set by Sea The Stars in this race in 2009. But, crucially, all the times were slower in 2012 than for the equivalent races three years earlier. Once you adjust for conditions, including wind, Frankel's performance against the clock emerges comfortably the better.
Indeed, Frankel's Timeform timefigure comes out at 136, which is the equal of his timefigure in the 2000 Guineas last year and means that he has the two best time-based ratings by any horse this century.
Got to try something better with a bit of meaning guys.
I'm simply questioning why Frankel didn't go & win the Irish 2000 if he was fit enough after the English?
step down in Class from a Classic to G1's
So we're back to your obsession with the Classic tag then.
You're criticising Frankel for not stepping up, so presumably the Derby sits above the 2000 in your hierarchy. The Arc is also 12f, but then it's not a Classic. So how does that fit in - above or below the 2000?
Is this year's 1000 Guineas the best race run for fillies this year purely on the basis of it being 'a Classic', and does that make Homecoming Queen the top filly? Or is it Was because she won the Oaks - despite The Fugue meeting major trouble in-running, and since finishing ahead of her twice, by bigger margins?
You're tying yourself in knots with this determination to justify your bizarre obsession with criticising the horse.
If you want to compare Frankel's 4 G1's with a horse (Cockney Rebel) that had been injured & retired, then you really are scraping the barrel & not doing Frankel any favors at all.
Dear me, you really are determined to make a complete fool of yourself aren't you? You are the one who claimed Cockney Rebel's 3yo career was better.
step down in Class from a Classic to G1's
So we're back to your obsession with the Classic tag then.
You're criticising Frankel for not stepping up, so presumably the Derby sits above the 2000 in your hierarchy. The Arc is also 12f, but then it's not a Classic. So how does that fit in - above or below the 2000?
Is this year's 1000 Guineas the best race run for fillies this year purely on the basis of it being 'a Classic', and does that make Homecoming Queen the top filly? Or is it Was because she won the Oaks - despite The Fugue meeting major trouble in-running, and since finishing ahead of her twice, by bigger margins?
You're tying yourself in knots with this determination to justify your bizarre obsession with criticising the horse.
If you want to compare Frankel's 4 G1's with a horse (Cockney Rebel) that had been injured & retired, then you really are scraping the barrel & not doing Frankel any favors at all.
Dear me, you really are determined to make a complete fool of yourself aren't you? You are the one who claimed Cockney Rebel's 3yo career was better.
Of course the Epsom Derby sits above the 2000 Guineas - it's the
most important Classic in the world!
O no according to you the G1 SJP or Sussex stakes are far more important!
most important Classic in the world!
O no according to you the G1 SJP or Sussex stakes are far more important!
O no according to you the G1 SJP or Sussex stakes are far more important!
If you were unable to use straw men arguments, you'd be floundering even worse than you already are
If you were unable to use straw men arguments, you'd be floundering even worse than you already are
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I had to bring him out, some of the replies on this thread are truely staggering
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I had to bring him out, some of the replies on this thread are truely staggering
There are some mental folk who think after that guineas run the Derby was the way to go,.
The July Cup would have been more likely after that performance.
The July Cup would have been more likely after that performance.
Listen, my argument with ILWAB over See The Stars 3yo record is that it chose weak races as compared to the great Nijinsky's campaign.
He should have gone for the Irish Derby after winning at Epsom not the weaker Eclipse 1m2f.
He should have gone for the King George instead of the weaker International 1m2f. And the Irish Champion Stakes G1. was pretty meaningless when he should have gone for the St Leger 1m6f.
Nijinsky did, & won them all, in a canter.
So imagine how I feel when Frankel is even mentioned in the same breath as some of the greatest racehorses, looking at his pathetic 3yo career.
For the greats it was Derby's, Arc's, King Georges after they won their 2000 Guineas and proved themselves the best milers of their generation. It was on & up to greater height's, & while they
were still only 3yo's. If you want immortality there’s no hiding place. You must prove on the course you are the best from 1m to 1m6f & beat the older generation as a 3yo.
All this hype over Frankel's meaningless & low class, single distance repetitive 3yo career does nothing for racing except bring it into disrepute & b@$tardise the sport!
He should have gone for the Irish Derby after winning at Epsom not the weaker Eclipse 1m2f.
He should have gone for the King George instead of the weaker International 1m2f. And the Irish Champion Stakes G1. was pretty meaningless when he should have gone for the St Leger 1m6f.
Nijinsky did, & won them all, in a canter.
So imagine how I feel when Frankel is even mentioned in the same breath as some of the greatest racehorses, looking at his pathetic 3yo career.
For the greats it was Derby's, Arc's, King Georges after they won their 2000 Guineas and proved themselves the best milers of their generation. It was on & up to greater height's, & while they
were still only 3yo's. If you want immortality there’s no hiding place. You must prove on the course you are the best from 1m to 1m6f & beat the older generation as a 3yo.
All this hype over Frankel's meaningless & low class, single distance repetitive 3yo career does nothing for racing except bring it into disrepute & b@$tardise the sport!
megsy
According to your logic (or lack of) on sectionals, Frankel must have been going faster in the final furlong in the SJP than he was in the 3 individual furlongs before that
according to me fcukwit it was the opposite way around.you claim that as fact about BC, dont twist your story to suit as you always do you filthy scum.
AHH AHH AHHHCHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!
bye now
What are you gabbing on about now ffs? Tell me what the little voices in your head told you what you think I said and then maybe I can reply to it.
In the meanwhile all I will tell you is that the final furlong time in many races is not usually the fastest furlong time of the whole race. This is usually because horses kick 2-3f out and so by the time they are crossing the line they have been in full flow for 2-3f and so naturally slowing slightly or they have the race won and are eased, which in turn affects the sectional time of that final furlong.
I don't know what you think I've said in the past but let me try once again to make it clear here. Frankel kicked in the SJP to close the gap on his pacemaker about 4f out and to try to keep up that pace for half of the race was impossible, so by the time he entered the final furlong he was slowing due to being at full pace for the previous 3. I have no idea of his actual sectionals but anyone who thinks he recorded his fastest time for the final furlong is an idiot.........please feel free to step forward.
On Black Caviar:
Nolen kicked for home two furlongs out and his partner swept into the final furlong from there in 10.48 seconds – her quickest sectional time of the race.
See now if you can work out whether that means her final furlong time was the fastest in the race? I'll give you a little clue to help. The 10.48 was her fastest furlong time and is the one she swept into the final further off the back of, meaning there was still another furlong to go. The jockey also eased her down for a few strides in the final furlong.
I also have no idea of Ortensia's sectionals in her last race either but since the ground was on the softer side of good and she was run off her feet early on and hard at if from a long way out, I would say that by the time she entered the final furlong she was slowing in comparison to the previous couple time wise but those early leaders had either also slowed and dropped away or others had built up a big enough early lead that enabled them to still make finish up there despite also slowing towards the end.
Of course horses are going faster in the final furlong that in the first from a standing start of other earlier furlongs in the race when they are just holding a position and ticking off the furlongs before the jockey then decides to ride a finish. So although still going faster in that final furlong than in some others, it's rarely the fastest furlong in the race and so if it takes longer to cover than say the 2 previous ones then the horse must be slowing at the finish in comparison to those previous couple of furlongs.
According to your logic (or lack of) on sectionals, Frankel must have been going faster in the final furlong in the SJP than he was in the 3 individual furlongs before that
according to me fcukwit it was the opposite way around.you claim that as fact about BC, dont twist your story to suit as you always do you filthy scum.
AHH AHH AHHHCHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!
bye now
What are you gabbing on about now ffs? Tell me what the little voices in your head told you what you think I said and then maybe I can reply to it.
In the meanwhile all I will tell you is that the final furlong time in many races is not usually the fastest furlong time of the whole race. This is usually because horses kick 2-3f out and so by the time they are crossing the line they have been in full flow for 2-3f and so naturally slowing slightly or they have the race won and are eased, which in turn affects the sectional time of that final furlong.
I don't know what you think I've said in the past but let me try once again to make it clear here. Frankel kicked in the SJP to close the gap on his pacemaker about 4f out and to try to keep up that pace for half of the race was impossible, so by the time he entered the final furlong he was slowing due to being at full pace for the previous 3. I have no idea of his actual sectionals but anyone who thinks he recorded his fastest time for the final furlong is an idiot.........please feel free to step forward.
On Black Caviar:
Nolen kicked for home two furlongs out and his partner swept into the final furlong from there in 10.48 seconds – her quickest sectional time of the race.
See now if you can work out whether that means her final furlong time was the fastest in the race? I'll give you a little clue to help. The 10.48 was her fastest furlong time and is the one she swept into the final further off the back of, meaning there was still another furlong to go. The jockey also eased her down for a few strides in the final furlong.
I also have no idea of Ortensia's sectionals in her last race either but since the ground was on the softer side of good and she was run off her feet early on and hard at if from a long way out, I would say that by the time she entered the final furlong she was slowing in comparison to the previous couple time wise but those early leaders had either also slowed and dropped away or others had built up a big enough early lead that enabled them to still make finish up there despite also slowing towards the end.
Of course horses are going faster in the final furlong that in the first from a standing start of other earlier furlongs in the race when they are just holding a position and ticking off the furlongs before the jockey then decides to ride a finish. So although still going faster in that final furlong than in some others, it's rarely the fastest furlong in the race and so if it takes longer to cover than say the 2 previous ones then the horse must be slowing at the finish in comparison to those previous couple of furlongs.
Why in the name of God would Frankel run in some ridiculous WFA race like the Cox plate where he would be giving loads of weight to some 2yo filly? We also know the Aussie handicappers give ridiculous weights to European horses, so that is all HCPs out. I just can't see any 4yo+ set weight GP1s out there.
The reason they have G1 handicaps is because of the lack of genuine G1 horses.No quality above the sprint division.
Funny isn't it that Yeats after one Ascot Gold Cup got 9st 4lbs in the Melbourne Cup and was giving almost a stone to English horses he was racing off levels previously or that Septimus got 9-3 after winning the Irish Leger yet So You Think got 8-11 after going into the race off the back of 5 wins, 4 at Gr1 level and including the Mackinnon and Cox Plate races.
Even Makybe Diva only had 9-2 when winning it for the 3rd time with 8-11 and 8-0 the other times and that's obviously 9-2 the 3rd time with winning course and distance form.
Even Makybe Diva only had 9-2 when winning it for the 3rd time with 8-11 and 8-0 the other times and that's obviously 9-2 the 3rd time with winning course and distance form.
You don't think they fiddled the handicap in their favour do you? 
Let's be honest there are GP1 races at Eagle Farm, thats like having a GP1 at Wolverhampton!
We can question Frankel's connections and a few race choices, I certainly have, but how can anyone possibly say Frankel isn't one of the best horses anyone has ever seen? could anyone seriously put up a case for any horse outside of the top handful of horses ever that would have even a remote chance of toppling Frankel?
A failed hurdler like Purple Moon got 8-7 and Red Cadeaux 8-6 compared to their "superstar" So You Think" getting 8-11 in the MC and if Yeats got 9-4 and Septimus 9-3 in their first attempt in the race and Makybe Diva got 9-2 for her third after winning it twice before, it makes you wonder what either Irish horse would have been given had there been a 2nd time if they had actually won the race first time up. As for what weight Frankel would get, it doesn't bear thinking about!
If they've not fiddled the weights then they definitely think the UK Gr1s are better quality than their own going by what they have given the UK and Irish horses.
If they've not fiddled the weights then they definitely think the UK Gr1s are better quality than their own going by what they have given the UK and Irish horses.
They would be right to to think that,though the aussie contingent on here won't have it.
Presumably this is based on the fact that SYT won a few what were virtually walkovers and a few more weak Gr1s plus that their sprinters have won some Gr1 over here despite being beaten in them far more often.
AHH AHH AHHHCHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!
excuse me, damn bullshyt im ellergic too
someone sure hasnt a clue how much bullshyt they are posting
excuse me, damn bullshyt im ellergic too
someone sure hasnt a clue how much bullshyt they are posting
You are knocking SYT Ima but, Frankel apart, he was the best we had over here. What does that say about our horses?
Versatility is a definite requirement for a horse to be pronounced the greatest European racehorse ever. Dancing Brave will still have the upper hand when comparisons are made between his Guineas, Derby might have been and brilliant Arc win. Also Sea Bird on similar lines.
It is simple, Frankel has always stayed a trip. He is a freak which is why people cannot accept he has a sprinters speed but can stay middle distances. The way he has been ridden has dictated the way the horse has been campaigned. Far from letting the horse tell Henry where to go next it has always been Henry deciding on how he was ridden and therefore where he wanted him to go next. The tactics in the Guineas was to burn off the field so obviously he was going to show hissprinters speed. The Royal Lodge over a mile he was settled until the jockey, not the horse, decided to go for home. He was bouncing on slow ground at the finishing post and could have carried on going further clear there is very little doubt about that. Henry knew by virtue of the Guineas tactics where he wanted to go and that was to keep him to the mile afterwards.
Frankel is a freak and should go for the Arc to claim the title European greatest of all time from the likes of Sea Bird and Dancing Brave.
Anything less is a tragic waste of the horses versatility of which we are unlikely to get the chance of seeing in such abundance ever again.
It is simple, Frankel has always stayed a trip. He is a freak which is why people cannot accept he has a sprinters speed but can stay middle distances. The way he has been ridden has dictated the way the horse has been campaigned. Far from letting the horse tell Henry where to go next it has always been Henry deciding on how he was ridden and therefore where he wanted him to go next. The tactics in the Guineas was to burn off the field so obviously he was going to show hissprinters speed. The Royal Lodge over a mile he was settled until the jockey, not the horse, decided to go for home. He was bouncing on slow ground at the finishing post and could have carried on going further clear there is very little doubt about that. Henry knew by virtue of the Guineas tactics where he wanted to go and that was to keep him to the mile afterwards.
Frankel is a freak and should go for the Arc to claim the title European greatest of all time from the likes of Sea Bird and Dancing Brave.
Anything less is a tragic waste of the horses versatility of which we are unlikely to get the chance of seeing in such abundance ever again.
Megsy resorting to bluster because he has no answer.Same old.
Message to all aussies,we have the best horse in the world,you don't.Take it well.
brigust1
Date Joined: 07 Dec 01 Add contact | Send message When: 30 Aug 12 23:02 Joined: Date Joined: 07 Dec 01 | Topic/replies: 4,458 | Blogger: brigust1's blog
You are knocking SYT Ima but, Frankel apart, he was the best we had over here. What does that say about our horses?
the most honest assessment i have read on here by a brit.
Date Joined: 07 Dec 01 Add contact | Send message When: 30 Aug 12 23:02 Joined: Date Joined: 07 Dec 01 | Topic/replies: 4,458 | Blogger: brigust1's blog
You are knocking SYT Ima but, Frankel apart, he was the best we had over here. What does that say about our horses?
the most honest assessment i have read on here by a brit.
Your total obsession with max makes me doubt your sexuality.
He still seems to have alot to say but as per usual nothing of any substance.
SOunds a bit like a chimp jumping into a hot bath.
SOunds a bit like a chimp jumping into a hot bath.
hmm, i do recall vintage crop, rated the best stayer in the world at the time and he won a melbourne cup and wasnt even top weight, only fools talk about things they dont know shyt about, i suggest you read a book on handicapping conditions for the melbourne cup.
and can anyone tell me the last visiting English horse to win the melbourne cup? you wont find it on racing post
let me see, aussies, kiwis,irish, french, even a japanese visitor has won it
what does that mean?
and can anyone tell me the last visiting English horse to win the melbourne cup? you wont find it on racing post
let me see, aussies, kiwis,irish, french, even a japanese visitor has won it
what does that mean?
How many were second by a short head? It would if i had anything to hide.i don't.
megsy
AHH AHH AHHHCHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!
excuse me, damn bullshyt im ellergic too Crazy
someone sure hasnt a clue how much bullshyt they are
Oh you're definitely right about that megsy but your lack of self awareness means you don't have a clue why!
It's funny how you keep saying it's bullsh1t but never specifically what part is or how exactly it is and no doubt you will just repeat it again next post knowing you can convince your own delusion mind, whereas everyone else can see that's all you have left as you've nothing better to come back with and have adjudged that to be marginally better than saying nothing or admitting as much.
Oh and what's "ellergic" is that line an online allergy or something?
brigust1
You are knocking SYT Ima but, Frankel apart, he was the best we had over here. What does that say about our horses?
I'm not knocking SYT brigust1 as I've always said think he's a decent horse but no superstar like some of the Aussies on here tried to have us believe but my point was Yeats and Septimus were no superstars either but were still given more weight in the Melbourne Cup than SYT and a 3 times Melbourne Cup winner.
As far as SYT and our horses goes, 10f is a bit of a hybrid distance where for non specialist it would mean milers stepping up 2f and 12f horses stepping down by the same distance. In the PoW last year SYT was beaten, in the Eclipse he beat two 12f horses in Workforce and Snow Fairy and SF reversed the form at 12f, in the Champion Stakes he was beaten again, albeit not by an English horse but probably would have been had Snow Fairy had a clearer run and in the PoW this year he was all out to beat a horse that has won 3 from 8 and is a Gr2/3 horse at best and another running at the trip and class for the first time out of handicap company that didn't get the best of runs and would probably beat SYT later in the season were they to have raced again, seeing as Farhh looks to have improved each time it has run.
SYT managed to miss clashing with Danedream, Frankel, Nathaniel and Sea Moon this season and Coolmore obviously had to protect their investment and do a bit of reputation repairing so weren't really likely to put any of their other better ones up against him either.
AHH AHH AHHHCHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!
excuse me, damn bullshyt im ellergic too Crazy
someone sure hasnt a clue how much bullshyt they are
Oh you're definitely right about that megsy but your lack of self awareness means you don't have a clue why!
It's funny how you keep saying it's bullsh1t but never specifically what part is or how exactly it is and no doubt you will just repeat it again next post knowing you can convince your own delusion mind, whereas everyone else can see that's all you have left as you've nothing better to come back with and have adjudged that to be marginally better than saying nothing or admitting as much.
Oh and what's "ellergic" is that line an online allergy or something?
brigust1
You are knocking SYT Ima but, Frankel apart, he was the best we had over here. What does that say about our horses?
I'm not knocking SYT brigust1 as I've always said think he's a decent horse but no superstar like some of the Aussies on here tried to have us believe but my point was Yeats and Septimus were no superstars either but were still given more weight in the Melbourne Cup than SYT and a 3 times Melbourne Cup winner.
As far as SYT and our horses goes, 10f is a bit of a hybrid distance where for non specialist it would mean milers stepping up 2f and 12f horses stepping down by the same distance. In the PoW last year SYT was beaten, in the Eclipse he beat two 12f horses in Workforce and Snow Fairy and SF reversed the form at 12f, in the Champion Stakes he was beaten again, albeit not by an English horse but probably would have been had Snow Fairy had a clearer run and in the PoW this year he was all out to beat a horse that has won 3 from 8 and is a Gr2/3 horse at best and another running at the trip and class for the first time out of handicap company that didn't get the best of runs and would probably beat SYT later in the season were they to have raced again, seeing as Farhh looks to have improved each time it has run.
SYT managed to miss clashing with Danedream, Frankel, Nathaniel and Sea Moon this season and Coolmore obviously had to protect their investment and do a bit of reputation repairing so weren't really likely to put any of their other better ones up against him either.
Megsy,let me get this straight.You think i am a poster called Max,who from what i have learned is banned everytime he or she shows their face on here.That means that you want me banned,yes?
AHH AHH AHHHCHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!
excuse me, damn bullshyt im ellergic too, someone walked in the door
MAX nobody should get banned, but why play the fool, you are who you are MAX
excuse me, damn bullshyt im ellergic too, someone walked in the door
MAX nobody should get banned, but why play the fool, you are who you are MAX
You are wrong,get over it.Your boyfriend isn't coming back.
He has a limited intellect,that's why he never answers a question.He has no answers.
SYT managed to miss clashing with Danedream, Frankel, Nathaniel and Sea Moon this season and Coolmore obviously had to protect their investment and do a bit of reputation repairing so weren't really likely to put any of their other better ones up against him either.
beat nathaniel 3 lens in the Qipco Champion Stakes, raced and won the prince of wales stakes day before Frankel raced for nearly 100,000 pounds less.
sea moon, been running in 12 furlong races and raced 4 days after SYT 's last raced. seeing the latter 2 were racing just after SYT, does that mean they avoided SYT?
yes you do talk shyt.
AHH AHH AHHHCHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!
excuse me
beat nathaniel 3 lens in the Qipco Champion Stakes, raced and won the prince of wales stakes day before Frankel raced for nearly 100,000 pounds less.
sea moon, been running in 12 furlong races and raced 4 days after SYT 's last raced. seeing the latter 2 were racing just after SYT, does that mean they avoided SYT?
yes you do talk shyt.
AHH AHH AHHHCHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!
excuse me
GT,why would he care about me,i don't know the man or woman.
I think you need to stay a big fish in your little pond,go home.
So because you beat a horse once that means you will beat him again or that some horses don't improve with age? Oh and Frankel raced on the 19th, the opening day of Royal Ascot, SYT ran on the 20th so now who's talking sh1t?.......Maybe you should have checked on Wiki or the Racing Post site before spouting off your usual b0ll0cks and then have the front to try to mock me for checking the facts first.
Sea Moon is also a winner at 10f, just as SYT has also run at 12f but once again mesgy you make up your own point just so as you could counter it but I wasn't claiming any horse avoided any other horse, just stating what happens to be a fact that SYT for whatever reason didn't face any of those other runners and so had a fairly easy time and free run at this season's PoW, and had any of Danedream, Frankel, Nathaniel and Sea Moon met that same field then you would think they would be up to beating Carlton House and the rest of them too.
As for Vintage Crop supposedly being the best stayer in the world at the time he won the Melbourne Cup, this would be the same Vintage Crop that finished 6th in the Ascot Gold Cup the same season but because he won your handicap race, that obviously makes him the best stayer in Aussie eyes. Oh and he got 8-10 in the MC that year and would have been near the top weight anyway but this was before the Aussie horses were regularly getting beaten by the overseas horses but the handicapper didn't take any chances with the likes of Yeats and Septimus after that.
Oh and yes, no English trained horses have won the MC but the likes of the failed hurdler Purple Moon and Bauer have been close up 2nds and would fall out of the back of the telly in a Gr1 race over here and we've seen Red Cadeaux well beaten at group 1, 2 and 3 level here since his photo finish 2nd in the MC........and not really much point saying that Aussie horses have won the MC when for years they were just about the only runners in it but if NZ, Irish, French and Japanese horses have won the race then considering some of the international runners have only started going over relatively recently, that just goes to show how poor your horses must be.
By the way, how many Aussies horses have won the July Cup?
Sea Moon is also a winner at 10f, just as SYT has also run at 12f but once again mesgy you make up your own point just so as you could counter it but I wasn't claiming any horse avoided any other horse, just stating what happens to be a fact that SYT for whatever reason didn't face any of those other runners and so had a fairly easy time and free run at this season's PoW, and had any of Danedream, Frankel, Nathaniel and Sea Moon met that same field then you would think they would be up to beating Carlton House and the rest of them too.
As for Vintage Crop supposedly being the best stayer in the world at the time he won the Melbourne Cup, this would be the same Vintage Crop that finished 6th in the Ascot Gold Cup the same season but because he won your handicap race, that obviously makes him the best stayer in Aussie eyes. Oh and he got 8-10 in the MC that year and would have been near the top weight anyway but this was before the Aussie horses were regularly getting beaten by the overseas horses but the handicapper didn't take any chances with the likes of Yeats and Septimus after that.
Oh and yes, no English trained horses have won the MC but the likes of the failed hurdler Purple Moon and Bauer have been close up 2nds and would fall out of the back of the telly in a Gr1 race over here and we've seen Red Cadeaux well beaten at group 1, 2 and 3 level here since his photo finish 2nd in the MC........and not really much point saying that Aussie horses have won the MC when for years they were just about the only runners in it but if NZ, Irish, French and Japanese horses have won the race then considering some of the international runners have only started going over relatively recently, that just goes to show how poor your horses must be.
By the way, how many Aussies horses have won the July Cup?
and not really much point saying that Aussie horses have won the MC when for years they were just about the only runners in it but if [b]NZ, Irish, French and Japanese horses have won the race then considering some of the international runners have only started going over relatively recently, that just goes to show how poor your horses must be[/b]
now a bit of education for you, kiwis are practically in the race every year since its infancy
that just goes to show how poor your horses must be
yes it does show how poorly your horses ( english )are, cant even win the race
Oh and yes, no English trained horses have won the MC but the likes of the failed hurdler Purple Moon and Bauer have been close up 2nds and would fall out of the back of the telly in a Gr1 race over here
didnt Septimus run a distant 21 lens behind Bauer?
yes you know a lot about handicaps, how its an even playing field....NOT in your eyes!!!
WAIT A SEC!!!
AHH AHH AHHHCHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!
excuse me, IM OUTTA HERE
now a bit of education for you, kiwis are practically in the race every year since its infancy
that just goes to show how poor your horses must be
yes it does show how poorly your horses ( english )are, cant even win the race
Oh and yes, no English trained horses have won the MC but the likes of the failed hurdler Purple Moon and Bauer have been close up 2nds and would fall out of the back of the telly in a Gr1 race over here
didnt Septimus run a distant 21 lens behind Bauer?
yes you know a lot about handicaps, how its an even playing field....NOT in your eyes!!!
WAIT A SEC!!!
AHH AHH AHHHCHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!
excuse me, IM OUTTA HERE
Now a bit of education for you megsy, "just about" the only runners in it isn't the same as "the only" runners in it and unless the NZ runners made up half the field every year, then the Aussie horses would be in by far the majority and running in their home country and so as pointless as saying English horses have won the Epsom Derby, otherwise know as the Derby (pronounced thee for emphasis, it's OK, I knew you would be struggling).....although I appreciate an extra word here or there overtaxed your ability to retain information.
The travelling must have taken a massive amount out of the NZ horses too by the way and again although no English horses have won the MC, Jeune won it in November 1994 carrying 8-13 when last seen here the season before racing in England for Geoff Wragg when a 9th of 10 and beaten 19L in a proper Gr1 like the King George when carrying 9-7 and at levels bar the female allowance and WFA.
Oh and if you are going to ask a question, it helps to be a bit more specific and/or include all of the information so that the person you are asking knows what they are supposed to be answering. Now assuming you are asking didn't Septimus finished 21L behind the winner in his MC compared to Bauer practically (try to retain that key word now) winning it, then yes that is the case but then as I've already said (those damn information retention problems eh megsy?) Septimus had 9-3 and Bauer had 8-3 so you aren't exactly comparing like with like.
And then YOU say:
yes you know a lot about handicaps, how its an even playing field....NOT in your eyes!!!
The travelling must have taken a massive amount out of the NZ horses too by the way and again although no English horses have won the MC, Jeune won it in November 1994 carrying 8-13 when last seen here the season before racing in England for Geoff Wragg when a 9th of 10 and beaten 19L in a proper Gr1 like the King George when carrying 9-7 and at levels bar the female allowance and WFA.
Oh and if you are going to ask a question, it helps to be a bit more specific and/or include all of the information so that the person you are asking knows what they are supposed to be answering. Now assuming you are asking didn't Septimus finished 21L behind the winner in his MC compared to Bauer practically (try to retain that key word now) winning it, then yes that is the case but then as I've already said (those damn information retention problems eh megsy?) Septimus had 9-3 and Bauer had 8-3 so you aren't exactly comparing like with like.
And then YOU say:
yes you know a lot about handicaps, how its an even playing field....NOT in your eyes!!!
Now you are really embarrassing yourself Ima with your lack of knowledge, Purple Moon was btn narrowly in a Melbourne Cup and the the Hong Kong Vase Group 1 and the Dubai Sheema Classic Group 1 and if he has any luck in the last two mentioned races he wins as was a certainty btn in the Sheema Classic in Dubai prior to that he won your much vaunted Ebor hardly a failed hrudler.
Makybe Diva had to set an all time weight carrying record for a mare, let alone a mare of her age in the Cup lumping 58kg a staggering weight for a mare over that trip in the great race and was equal top weight with 4 time Irish St Leger winner Vinnie Roe whose international rating ensured he would carry that sort of weight.
Now either you stand by your ratings system or you don't, you can't have it both ways, that weight of 58kg was an increase of 2.5kg on her win the previous year over Vinnie Roe who was beaten 1.3 lengths by her on that occasion and top of all of this she was asked to do this as 7yo mare which is unprecedented, so to say she was in light is laughable.
The VRC handicapper Greg Carpenter is regarded as not only the best in Australia (is renowned for his encyclopediac knowledge of form and history and ability to fairly weight horses from diverse formlines all over the world for both Cups) and is regarded as one of the best handicappers in the world.
So You Think when weights were released had won one Group 1 at that stage as a spring 3yo the Cox Plate and had never won beyond 2000m or even raced beyond that distance and he was asked to carry 56kg just 1kg less than Shocking the previous years Melbourne Cup winner and So You Think found that task beyond him, so you again you have completely embarrasssed yourself with your ignorance and lack of racing knowledge.
Makybe Diva had to set an all time weight carrying record for a mare, let alone a mare of her age in the Cup lumping 58kg a staggering weight for a mare over that trip in the great race and was equal top weight with 4 time Irish St Leger winner Vinnie Roe whose international rating ensured he would carry that sort of weight.
Now either you stand by your ratings system or you don't, you can't have it both ways, that weight of 58kg was an increase of 2.5kg on her win the previous year over Vinnie Roe who was beaten 1.3 lengths by her on that occasion and top of all of this she was asked to do this as 7yo mare which is unprecedented, so to say she was in light is laughable.
The VRC handicapper Greg Carpenter is regarded as not only the best in Australia (is renowned for his encyclopediac knowledge of form and history and ability to fairly weight horses from diverse formlines all over the world for both Cups) and is regarded as one of the best handicappers in the world.
So You Think when weights were released had won one Group 1 at that stage as a spring 3yo the Cox Plate and had never won beyond 2000m or even raced beyond that distance and he was asked to carry 56kg just 1kg less than Shocking the previous years Melbourne Cup winner and So You Think found that task beyond him, so you again you have completely embarrasssed yourself with your ignorance and lack of racing knowledge.
ima_mazed66
Date Joined: 12 Oct 09 Add contact | Send message When: 31 Aug 12 01:53 Joined: Date Joined: 12 Oct 09 | Topic/replies: 3,641 | Blogger: ima_mazed66's blog
The travelling must have taken a massive amount out of the NZ horses too by the way
PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE,
quit now, you are only looking a complete utter idiot
education for you, 42 i repeat 42 times new zealand has won the melbourne cup !!!!!!!!!!!
and
Septimus had 9-3 and Bauer had 8-3 so you aren't exactly comparing like with like.
PSSSST, ITS A FCUKING HANDICAP, WHAT HAVENT YOU LEARNT?, WEIGHT GIVEN, GIVES EVERY HORSE A CHANCE !!!
I SUGGEST YOU LISTEN TO LETS ELOPE, YOU MIGHT LEARN A THING OR 2
WAIT A SEC!!!
AHH AHH AHHHCHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!
excuse me, IM OUTTA HERE
Date Joined: 12 Oct 09 Add contact | Send message When: 31 Aug 12 01:53 Joined: Date Joined: 12 Oct 09 | Topic/replies: 3,641 | Blogger: ima_mazed66's blog
The travelling must have taken a massive amount out of the NZ horses too by the way
PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE,
quit now, you are only looking a complete utter idiot
education for you
, 42 i repeat 42 times new zealand has won the melbourne cup !!!!!!!!!!!and
Septimus had 9-3 and Bauer had 8-3 so you aren't exactly comparing like with like.
PSSSST, ITS A FCUKING HANDICAP, WHAT HAVENT YOU LEARNT?, WEIGHT GIVEN, GIVES EVERY HORSE A CHANCE !!!
I SUGGEST YOU LISTEN TO LETS ELOPE, YOU MIGHT LEARN A THING OR 2
WAIT A SEC!!!
AHH AHH AHHHCHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!
excuse me, IM OUTTA HERE
and jeune was a late developer, just like his breed, came to australia in search of hard tracks which australia had, trained by a master C J Hayes.
again you show your true knoweledge of racing.....fact !!!!, racing post and The Wikipedia dont give you every answer ima_mazed66, it actually bites you on the asre constantly
again you show your true knoweledge of racing.....fact !!!!, racing post and The Wikipedia dont give you every answer ima_mazed66, it actually bites you on the asre constantly
Ima I'm not talking UP So You Think. I think at best he is just above average. The famous Cox Plate he won he beat Zipping (form confirmed in MC) and Zipping is 9 year old who has been beaten twice as many times as he has won.
Since arriving in the UK he has been beaten Carlton House (Group 3 horse), Famous Name (Group 3 horse), Snow Fairy (an average Group 1 horse), Workforce ( never recovered from injury and almost last in the Arc), Campanologist and Bob Le Beau. He was long odds on for most of theseraces such was the lack of strength in the opposition. He has been beaten almost as many times as he has won.
His Arc form is as good as he is and that is 5 lengths behind a German filly who ran 11 times before she won a Group 1.
He is of Group 1 quality only in a very average year.
Since arriving in the UK he has been beaten Carlton House (Group 3 horse), Famous Name (Group 3 horse), Snow Fairy (an average Group 1 horse), Workforce ( never recovered from injury and almost last in the Arc), Campanologist and Bob Le Beau. He was long odds on for most of theseraces such was the lack of strength in the opposition. He has been beaten almost as many times as he has won.
His Arc form is as good as he is and that is 5 lengths behind a German filly who ran 11 times before she won a Group 1.
He is of Group 1 quality only in a very average year.
Wednesday, 20 June 2012: Racing Victoria's chief handicapper Greg Carpenter believes Frankel's amazing win at Royal Ascot ranks it above some of Australia's greatest racehorses.
http://www.racingandsports.com.au/sports/rsNewsArt.asp?NID=253241&story=Frankel_best_mile_racer_ever:_Greg_Carpenter
[b]Caviar can't beat Frankel on rankings[/b]
Number one: Frankel.
DESPITE heavy criticism from Peter Moody regarding the widening gap between unbeaten British colt Frankel and champion sprinter Black Caviar following the release of the latest round of World Thoroughbred Rankings, it is highly unlikely that the brilliant mare will wrest the title of the world's best horse from Frankel any time soon.
Greg Carpenter, Racing Victoria's general manager of Racing and Australia's representative on the international handicapping panel, said it was highly unlikely that a Royal Ascot win would be enough for Black Caviar to knock Frankel from his throne.
Most of the 10 active members of the International Handicapping Panel recommended that Frankel receive a career-high mark of 138 following his first-up win in the Lockinge Stakes in late May, but Carpenter believed that a conservative approach was more appropriate when it came to assessing Britain's best racehorse.
"My view was that we should wait and see how the season unfolds to determine exactly if Frankel has a better season this than last," he said. "Once the English and European handicappers see her first hand and understand and taste her greatness, we might get her back to the 132 of last year, or higher."
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horseracing/caviar-cant-beat-frankel-on-rankings-20120612-20850.html#ixzz257Ff7D88
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horseracing/caviar-cant-beat-frankel-on-rankings-20120612-20850.html
You're right - knows his stuff does Greg
http://www.racingandsports.com.au/sports/rsNewsArt.asp?NID=253241&story=Frankel_best_mile_racer_ever:_Greg_Carpenter
[b]Caviar can't beat Frankel on rankings[/b]
Number one: Frankel.
DESPITE heavy criticism from Peter Moody regarding the widening gap between unbeaten British colt Frankel and champion sprinter Black Caviar following the release of the latest round of World Thoroughbred Rankings, it is highly unlikely that the brilliant mare will wrest the title of the world's best horse from Frankel any time soon.
Greg Carpenter, Racing Victoria's general manager of Racing and Australia's representative on the international handicapping panel, said it was highly unlikely that a Royal Ascot win would be enough for Black Caviar to knock Frankel from his throne.
Most of the 10 active members of the International Handicapping Panel recommended that Frankel receive a career-high mark of 138 following his first-up win in the Lockinge Stakes in late May, but Carpenter believed that a conservative approach was more appropriate when it came to assessing Britain's best racehorse.
"My view was that we should wait and see how the season unfolds to determine exactly if Frankel has a better season this than last," he said. "Once the English and European handicappers see her first hand and understand and taste her greatness, we might get her back to the 132 of last year, or higher."
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horseracing/caviar-cant-beat-frankel-on-rankings-20120612-20850.html#ixzz257Ff7D88
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horseracing/caviar-cant-beat-frankel-on-rankings-20120612-20850.html
You're right - knows his stuff does Greg
Just thought i'd say again - Australia's representative on the international handicapping panel, just in case any Aussies thought the ratings were done by Pomms.........
LOL megsy, you really are as thick as sh1t aren't you? Do me a favour and hold your hand out flat above your head hand then move if back and forth whilst making a whooshing sound, as cleary so much in life just whizzes right over your (empty) head.
Me - The travelling must have taken a massive amount out of the NZ horses too by the way
Thick as fcuk megsy - PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE,
quit now, you are only looking a complete utter idiot
education for you, 42 i repeat 42 times new zealand has won the melbourne cup !!!!!!!!!!!
You total fcuking mug, you obviously think irony is a pill you take in the morning with your victims and whatever other medication you are clearly on.
You're even slower than some of your horses ffs and when you listed the countries' horses that had won the Melbourne Cup, you did so by beginning with Australia and NZ. So I then say it's a bit pointless saying Aussie horses have won it as they are just about the only others in it, being fully aware NZ horses have run in and won it, which was why I used the expression "just about" and that's still only 2 countries anyway that have made up the bulk of runners. I then sarcastically pointed out the travelling must really have taken it's toll on the NZ horses anyway (by way of saying it was no big deal for them to hop across the water) but you being as thick as sh1t couldn't even work that out.
Saying Aussie and NZ horses have won the Melbourne Cup has about a much effect as saying English and Irish horses have won the Epsom Derby. Then if some Aussie said he obviously expected English horses to have won it and that it must really take it's toll on the Irish horses travelling over, I think I and anyone else not as thick as sh1t would pick up on the fact that they were taking the p1ss......but that was obviously beyond your capabilities.
Oh and you have to laugh, as being called an idiot by you is like being call a fat **** by John McCririck!!!!
Yes I'm fully aware your Gr1 is laughably a handicap and some horses will have to give weight to others but giving away a stone to a horse you would in top races meet on level terms is still clearly going to have an effect on a horse, yet that is obviously beyond your comprehension to get that.
A horse like Land 'n Stars only ever got a long distance view of Yeats's @rse whenever they met on levels in our group level cup races and was beaten 10½L by Yeats in the Goodwood Cup, yet beat him 2 necks when reversing teh form after getting almost a stone off of him in the MC. Even one of our also rans like Jardine's Lookout that was more often than not beaten out of sight at levels in our cup races finished 3rd in your MC handicap and even then still had to give 10lbs to Makybe Diva and was still only beaten 4¼L and she's supposed to be one of your all-time greats!
Oh and yes I looked up some of the finer details such as the weight carried and so on using the Racing Post website but I do that so as I have my facts right and not just spouted off any old b0ll0cks (maybe that sounds familiar?) but if you think I went through every MC in history to find that then you really are as thick as **** (was it ever in doubt?) and I obviously had the knowledge of those horses/races from memory.
Anyway, on to the grown up stuff, I wasn't suggesting you were talking up SYT brigust1, I was just saying that I wasn't talking him down and have said previously and we seem to agree that he was decent, but just far from the superstar some of these Aussies claimed him to be and they even disowned him for a while when he was regularly getting beaten but then claimed him back again when he won another p1ss poor Gr1 from averages horses like the ones you mentioned.
Me - The travelling must have taken a massive amount out of the NZ horses too by the way
Thick as fcuk megsy - PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE,
quit now, you are only looking a complete utter idiot
education for you
, 42 i repeat 42 times new zealand has won the melbourne cup !!!!!!!!!!!You total fcuking mug, you obviously think irony is a pill you take in the morning with your victims and whatever other medication you are clearly on.
You're even slower than some of your horses ffs and when you listed the countries' horses that had won the Melbourne Cup, you did so by beginning with Australia and NZ. So I then say it's a bit pointless saying Aussie horses have won it as they are just about the only others in it, being fully aware NZ horses have run in and won it, which was why I used the expression "just about" and that's still only 2 countries anyway that have made up the bulk of runners. I then sarcastically pointed out the travelling must really have taken it's toll on the NZ horses anyway (by way of saying it was no big deal for them to hop across the water) but you being as thick as sh1t couldn't even work that out.
Saying Aussie and NZ horses have won the Melbourne Cup has about a much effect as saying English and Irish horses have won the Epsom Derby. Then if some Aussie said he obviously expected English horses to have won it and that it must really take it's toll on the Irish horses travelling over, I think I and anyone else not as thick as sh1t would pick up on the fact that they were taking the p1ss......but that was obviously beyond your capabilities.
Oh and you have to laugh, as being called an idiot by you is like being call a fat **** by John McCririck!!!!
Yes I'm fully aware your Gr1 is laughably a handicap and some horses will have to give weight to others but giving away a stone to a horse you would in top races meet on level terms is still clearly going to have an effect on a horse, yet that is obviously beyond your comprehension to get that.
A horse like Land 'n Stars only ever got a long distance view of Yeats's @rse whenever they met on levels in our group level cup races and was beaten 10½L by Yeats in the Goodwood Cup, yet beat him 2 necks when reversing teh form after getting almost a stone off of him in the MC. Even one of our also rans like Jardine's Lookout that was more often than not beaten out of sight at levels in our cup races finished 3rd in your MC handicap and even then still had to give 10lbs to Makybe Diva and was still only beaten 4¼L and she's supposed to be one of your all-time greats!
Oh and yes I looked up some of the finer details such as the weight carried and so on using the Racing Post website but I do that so as I have my facts right and not just spouted off any old b0ll0cks (maybe that sounds familiar?) but if you think I went through every MC in history to find that then you really are as thick as **** (was it ever in doubt?) and I obviously had the knowledge of those horses/races from memory.
Anyway, on to the grown up stuff, I wasn't suggesting you were talking up SYT brigust1, I was just saying that I wasn't talking him down and have said previously and we seem to agree that he was decent, but just far from the superstar some of these Aussies claimed him to be and they even disowned him for a while when he was regularly getting beaten but then claimed him back again when he won another p1ss poor Gr1 from averages horses like the ones you mentioned.
What a surprise, not, that connections again avoid genuine top class opponents by bypassing the Arc.
frankel doesn't avoid top class opponents.
top class opponents avoid frankel.
top class opponents avoid frankel.
Can we have anyone that has laid Frankel in the Arc own up please.
To argue Champion Stakes instead of Arc is insane.
To argue Champion Stakes instead of Arc is insane.
I did! and the derby & the eclipse.
Clear he wasnt going to any of em.
Clear he wasnt going to any of em.
Anyone who questions that Maybe Diva's handicap marks weren't "lenient" needs locking up.
Lets Elope
What a surprise, not, that connections again avoid genuine top class opponents by bypassing the Arc.
They can always take him on at Ascot if any other connections feel he has a weakness and that his own connections are running scared.
You're both right and wrong in your comments though as yes, it's no surprise they haven't tried 12f for the first time in probably the most competitive 12f race in Europe if not the world against proven 12f horses, but you're wrong about the avoiding top class opponents as he's already beaten those previously and months ago the stated plan was Lockinge, Queen Anne, Sussex, Juddmonte and Champion Stakes and so everyone has known his targets and were and still are free to take him on if they choose to.
You bitter Aussies must really still be hurting so much about how your so called superstars have been knocked off their perch.
What a surprise, not, that connections again avoid genuine top class opponents by bypassing the Arc.
They can always take him on at Ascot if any other connections feel he has a weakness and that his own connections are running scared.
You're both right and wrong in your comments though as yes, it's no surprise they haven't tried 12f for the first time in probably the most competitive 12f race in Europe if not the world against proven 12f horses, but you're wrong about the avoiding top class opponents as he's already beaten those previously and months ago the stated plan was Lockinge, Queen Anne, Sussex, Juddmonte and Champion Stakes and so everyone has known his targets and were and still are free to take him on if they choose to.
You bitter Aussies must really still be hurting so much about how your so called superstars have been knocked off their perch.
one of the great milers of all time..most certainly
If he wins well at Ascot
possibly one of the all time great 10f horses..
....but only this side of the Atlantic...America where the 10f horse is king, will not have it, not a chance
well unless he turns up for Breeders Cup Classic and convinces them of course
But methinks his connections would rather have the reputation of being the greatest of all time
rather than actually prove it
Sea Bird still has his crown at middle distances
If Frankel's connections dont think he will stay 1m 4f...then neither do I
A very special horse all the same
If he wins well at Ascot
possibly one of the all time great 10f horses..
....but only this side of the Atlantic...America where the 10f horse is king, will not have it, not a chance
well unless he turns up for Breeders Cup Classic and convinces them of course
But methinks his connections would rather have the reputation of being the greatest of all time
rather than actually prove it
Sea Bird still has his crown at middle distances
If Frankel's connections dont think he will stay 1m 4f...then neither do I
A very special horse all the same
if so you think was given the cotton wool treatment he could conceivably be considered amongst the greatest.
The only great thing to come out of Oz is..,er..no wait,give me a moment..er,er...no,sorry.
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