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backed the second twice and layed it twice haven't got a clue where I am!
"hes going to say lost weight in race as so hot. will keep it"
this arguement only holds up if others riders lost similar amounts of weight too
this arguement only holds up if others riders lost similar amounts of weight too
same here tomhunt backed both 1st and sec but not sure where i am now
If he IS 1.5 under and therefore .5 under the allowed limit - has to be dq'd cant go around changing rules willy nilly
I wish I could lose 1.5lbs in 30 minutes....Given that it is 30 degrees, they must give him benefit of doubt!
In most instances Paul Moloney of all jockeys would need a counsellor of O.J.Simpson status to get him off on the grounds of excessive weight loss during race due to effort in the saddle
makes no diffence if he did lose the weight through sweat , a pound and a half is the limit under it and out you go
there is no arguement, the horse MUST be disqualified. They have leeway for 1lb of overweight, anything above that results in instant disqualification. That's why the idiots at bookmakers should never try to play steward and pay out before the weighed in signal. It's their own fault - pure greed, only want you to have your winnings to play on the next race. Unlucky for Betfair punters who will be looking at a negative balance.
if there`s any common sense or discretion he`l keep it...altho...............................................knowing this game...........................................................................
I've never seen The Clerk Of The Scales lose an objection. It's a formality.
Ive seen one before being overrule and the RS cant remember where or when tho, but it has happened presumable several times
????? That is clearly ridiculous.... No wonder British racing is going down the sh1tter.
Don't know what the fuss is about. Many on hear lost more than one and a half pounds on that race.
may as well chuck the rules now it's all just a joke,betfair enquiry me thinks
you couldn't make that up
fk the rules eh
stewards on the gamble
They took too long,should've been tossed out 15mins ago,Jokers
Jul 25, 2012 -- 2:50PM, mousaka wrote:
The RIGHT decision....30% ...chase...no argument imo
Do you know the rules?
who runs this racing game???? they make it up as they go along...off to ride me bike for an hour...I could waste away.
scandalous.this means anyone can lose 1 and half pounds of lead at start of 3 m hcap chase.win race.weigh in light.and keep race?!
bring in young blood to the sport ?
yeah , 2 hopes with that sort of sh!T
yeah , 2 hopes with that sort of sh!T
massive can of worms opened, how the hell can you have a rule in place only for it to mean nothing
Yes i know the rules... have you ever heard of discretion in exceptional circumstances ?....half a pound over in these temps...again..the RIGHT decision
common sense prevailed, horse would have won with another 10lbs on his back.
how much was done at 1.01 and by whom,got to have been some influence from bookmakers/exchanges.
Jul 25, 2012 -- 2:53PM, mousaka wrote:
Yes i know the rules... have you ever heard of discretion in exceptional circumstances ?....half a pound over in these temps...again..the RIGHT decision
no i havent, where is that in the rule book you clueless tart
you KNOW what i mean......lol....clueless tart...i think somebodys angry ....arrr never mind hey x
If Maloney lost 11/2lb and won on the bridle the other jockeys must have lost a stone
Surely if it was lost through sweating his silks would soak it up,can't see him losing the weight that way.
they cant give jockeys half pound because its hot.carnage awaits every day with jockeys arguing the temperature.should be thrown out end of
was expecting a brucie bonus on the 2nd getting that
i've nEVER known this to happen when cOS objects
i've nEVER known this to happen when cOS objects
Discretion in exceptional circumstances?
Tell you what just tear the rule book and decide whats fair on the day depending on circumstances.
Tell you what just tear the rule book and decide whats fair on the day depending on circumstances.
Mousaka...i really think u want to consider what your saying...with all the experience of racing we have at our disposal,surely it would already be in the RULES....this is a disgrace...and no i didnt loose any money on the race....the stewards all need sacking
you cant let the weather dictate this its insane,how variable is that ffs
No point in a rule book anymore, just ride at whatever weight you want and we'll guess what would of happened if you were at the right weight.
Weighing room to blame now LOL
Weighing room to blame now LOL
Surely the current rules are already framed to take account of this type of scenario (i.e. with the leeway given)?
what next
'i had a sh1t half way down the back straight, it was huge at least 2lbs' after jock weighs in light
'i had a sh1t half way down the back straight, it was huge at least 2lbs' after jock weighs in light
Correct decision. Its common sense with the heat. Don't know why its such a big deal.
grand national winning jockey shud be able weigh in about 3lbs light and shud keep the race based on the weather factor, shocking to be able weigh in light and keep the race.
Jockey never broke sweat during the race. If he lost 1.5 lbs the others must have lost twice as much.
andy
fair play if other jocks are light but not if he's the only one
fair play if other jocks are light but not if he's the only one
if he's the only light jock in race thats a disgrace
unless we don't know something else thats a factor
report will be very interesting
i've never seen this happen before.
unless we don't know something else thats a factor
report will be very interesting
i've never seen this happen before.
so where do you the draw the line andy? 20 degrees?25?30?.forget rule book lets get john kettley in the stewards room
Jul 25, 2012 -- 3:04PM, stridingedge wrote:
andyfair play if other jocks are light but not if he's the only one
ok, that's a fair comment.
plus some people sweat more than others how do you account for this, this is a farce !!
Jul 25, 2012 -- 3:07PM, red beach ball wrote:
plus some people sweat more than others how do you account for this, this is a farce !!
okay okay....I concede.
davyb is right how much do you think Maguire should have lost then on Ballabriggs,4 and a half miles over 30 fences in searing heat?
An official explanation is required - in over 40 years, I cannot recall an objection by the clerk of the scales being overruled !
Only faulty scales or other unknown influence can lead the Stewards to the decision they have made - otherwise they are all sacked
Only faulty scales or other unknown influence can lead the Stewards to the decision they have made - otherwise they are all sacked
I have also never known this to happen before but i`m glad it has...surely discretion is a good thing...didn`t matter to me financially either way so i`m not talking out of my pocket..like ive said IN MY OPINION they made the right decision.
because exchanges have never had so much influence that's WHY.
I backed the winner and to be honest would of won with an extra 10lbs on its back, but....
According to the rules it has to go, so i am amazed i won.
Rules need to be changed as in this heat, especially over jumps 1lb limit under is a bit tight IMO.
According to the rules it has to go, so i am amazed i won.
Rules need to be changed as in this heat, especially over jumps 1lb limit under is a bit tight IMO.
For those of you griping that t he stewards have done something wrong - you need to read the rules properly. They state
"67.10 The Stewards may take Disciplinary Action against any Rider,Trainer or both when the Rider is reported to them under Paragraphs 67.4.2 to 67.4.4.
This allows the stewards to use their discretion. If it said "must" then they would be out of order but it doesn't - it says "may". Obviously we will all have our views as to whether they should have exercised their discretion but it is entirely within the rules that they can.
So 1stpost, you ought to be winding your neck in!
"67.10 The Stewards may take Disciplinary Action against any Rider,Trainer or both when the Rider is reported to them under Paragraphs 67.4.2 to 67.4.4.
This allows the stewards to use their discretion. If it said "must" then they would be out of order but it doesn't - it says "may". Obviously we will all have our views as to whether they should have exercised their discretion but it is entirely within the rules that they can.
So 1stpost, you ought to be winding your neck in!
but what do you change the rules to?are we going to go off track temperatures with a sliding scale?every individual will sweat different amounts on any given day
With respect though you have to wait for the official explanation....
If every jockey in the field weighed in too light due to extreme heat who do award the race to if disqualifying the winner , you'd have to void the race or find some tailed off rag that may have weighed in correctly.
Result stands seems common sense to me , pending the official explanation.
If every jockey in the field weighed in too light due to extreme heat who do award the race to if disqualifying the winner , you'd have to void the race or find some tailed off rag that may have weighed in correctly.
Result stands seems common sense to me , pending the official explanation.
Ok, after hearing that, common sense has prevailed.
why did he weigh out for 2 races ? rules are rules should have been thrown out,very strange decision.didnt have a bet in race.
true hayden have to wait but
1>) surely other jocks must have been light there
2.) i have never known a COS objection not to result in a horse being thrown
if 1 jock has weighed in light this cannot be fair that he keeps the race, its absurd.
1>) surely other jocks must have been light there
2.) i have never known a COS objection not to result in a horse being thrown
if 1 jock has weighed in light this cannot be fair that he keeps the race, its absurd.
Looks like Dean Richards is the Chief Steward at Worcester today. 
Didn't have a bet at all, but after hearing that it is all very convenient
And how long before a race can you weigh?
And how long before a race can you weigh?
My reading of rule 67 would be as follows:
67.4.4 The Clerk of the Scales must report to the Stewards and Rider who weighs out by more than 1lb. As 1.5 lbs is greater than 1lb the Clerk of the Scales would thus have to make the report.
67.7 All weights will be rounded down to the nearest 1lb unit.
Thus the 1.5 loss becomes a 1lb loss for these purposes
67.9 - The Stewards have power to disqualify the horse under rule 14.2 where
67.9.1 a Rider weighs in below the weight at which he weighed out by more than 1lb.
But the 1.5 loss has been rounded down to 1lb and thus is no longer greater than 1lb and thus it would appear that the Stewards did not in fact have the power to disqualify and thus they would appear to have come to the correct decision because of rule 67.7
67.4.4 The Clerk of the Scales must report to the Stewards and Rider who weighs out by more than 1lb. As 1.5 lbs is greater than 1lb the Clerk of the Scales would thus have to make the report.
67.7 All weights will be rounded down to the nearest 1lb unit.
Thus the 1.5 loss becomes a 1lb loss for these purposes
67.9 - The Stewards have power to disqualify the horse under rule 14.2 where
67.9.1 a Rider weighs in below the weight at which he weighed out by more than 1lb.
But the 1.5 loss has been rounded down to 1lb and thus is no longer greater than 1lb and thus it would appear that the Stewards did not in fact have the power to disqualify and thus they would appear to have come to the correct decision because of rule 67.7
Nosuchthingasvalue 25 Jul 12 15:15
For those of you griping that t he stewards have done something wrong - you need to read the rules properly. They state
"67.10 The Stewards may take Disciplinary Action against any Rider,Trainer or both when the Rider is reported to them under Paragraphs 67.4.2 to 67.4.4.
This allows the stewards to use their discretion. If it said "must" then they would be out of order but it doesn't - it says "may". Obviously we will all have our views as to whether they should have exercised their discretion but it is entirely within the rules that they can.
So 1stpost, you ought to be winding your neck in!
please give any other example of this happening before...
we can't have stewards suddenl;y using discretion they have never shown in past.
anyway until reading the full report its all up in the air. people have every right to be questioning this though.
For those of you griping that t he stewards have done something wrong - you need to read the rules properly. They state
"67.10 The Stewards may take Disciplinary Action against any Rider,Trainer or both when the Rider is reported to them under Paragraphs 67.4.2 to 67.4.4.
This allows the stewards to use their discretion. If it said "must" then they would be out of order but it doesn't - it says "may". Obviously we will all have our views as to whether they should have exercised their discretion but it is entirely within the rules that they can.
So 1stpost, you ought to be winding your neck in!
please give any other example of this happening before...
we can't have stewards suddenl;y using discretion they have never shown in past.
anyway until reading the full report its all up in the air. people have every right to be questioning this though.
But why was he allowed to weigh out for 2 races at once? In this heat that is surely asking for trouble?
I backed Papradon so would've been pleased if the winner was thrown out. I know rules are rules, but considering the circumstances, I think common sense has prevailed
he weighed out before the firsdt race so basically they (stewards) admitted he rode the whole of the 2nd race underweight. usual bull, if it was a 5lb claimer riding a syndicate horse for a small trainer he would have been trown out long ago
2.) i have never known a COS objection not to result in a horse being thrown
Understand that striding and neither have I , in all honesty though that says something about past racing without a common sense element , I would suspect quite a few " In the past " should have stood with common sense applied instead of some ridiculous antiquated rule book.
Good luck today
Understand that striding and neither have I , in all honesty though that says something about past racing without a common sense element , I would suspect quite a few " In the past " should have stood with common sense applied instead of some ridiculous antiquated rule book.
Good luck today
whats all this common sense about ? rules are rules & i reckon these stewards at worcester will be in trouble for this.
Sorry if it's already been covered but how the feck can they allow jocks to weigh out 2 races in advance on a day with record heat, isn't obvious that he's be light through the 2nd race ffs
i just thought 1 jockey weighing in light was a mad reason to use a discretion thats never been shown before. there are several different things about why the result stood being banded around so hard to know whats what until we get the official verdict.
need to see the report, gl to you too mate
need to see the report, gl to you too mate
is this weighing out for 2 races really true
whats the source of this ?
whats the source of this ?
duffy there are so many questions that need answering on this race
they took shortcuts by allowing jocks to weigh out for future races and it's come back on them big time,the stewards and the clerk will be in trouble but in about 2 months time and everyone will have forgotten.
God knows how they would cope if they had horse racing in really hot places like Australia or The Middle East........
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