Today's BF Video problem

The £2 trade for zero liability will soon become another 'loophole' BF will see fit to close if I know them.

Rather than prioritizing my proper bets for the inrunning market I'm busy abusing the system by putting in various 2 squid backs and lays just to watch a race that I will turn over bundles on.

If I wasn't laughing at the ludicrousness of the situation, I'd be crying.

Everyone does get it duffy....its a nuisance that isn't needed and if anything will cost betfair more than it will make them.

By putting in 2 squid back and lays at virtually the same price the resulting profit/loss figure is below the minimum to trigger commission, so Betfair get less than Phuck all for their mean spiritedness.

Putting in minimal trades just to watch LV seems a really pointless exercise which generates virtually no commission and only puts more strain on their already overloaded systems. Crazy.

they will close the loop holes one by one ,forcing in running punters elsewhere.getting the pictures fifteen seconds after the off plus the time delay from the course will just lose them business

Carrot Im not sure BF are that stupid .. well .. mmmm .. not so sure thinking about it!

well seeing as i was watching the 7.00 for the last two minutes before the off having placed an sp bet it does not make sense

Just got home to this and could Betfair do anything else to pi$$ their customers off anymore.

i just got home aswell mr spock and i'm almost rofling at this utter fookin stupidity.


absolute joke of a company these days

What's the problem? duffy put it succinctly above  - it's an irritation which needn't be there but I'd rather it was there and we could watch races basically for free than BF close that avenue which is where all this moaning might lead us.

I've just done 80p in cold blood trading the fav in the 19.30 at Sandown just so I could watch the live video.

PHUCK THAT.

I will have to resubscribe to Racing UK, its much cheaper, better pictures, more reliable service and faster to boot.

No contest.

How on earth did you do that Loper?

I laid the fav at 4.7 then the price went to 4.3 and lower in an instant!

you should have backed it first

I backed it first but traded out instantly for zero profit

Loper its easier to do it about an hour before the first race of the day and do the afternoon races and then at about 5ish do the evening races as the market is more stable

wouldn't it be better to back and then lay on the place market ?

even though i keep using the win market , as i keep forgetting

rcing
18 Jul 12 20:04 Joined: 26 Jun 08 | Topic/replies: 1,098 | Blogger: rcing's blog
wouldn't it be better to back and then lay on the place market ?

even though i keep using the win market , as i keep forgetting

Well done

Open a second Gruss Betting Assistant with place markets in the "quick pick" and set to automatically trade out. Job done.
I can then use my main Betting Assistant with my in-running settings to trade the in-running "WIN" markets without faffing about

If they really want to they'll close the trading 'loophole' and demand you have a minimum £2 exposure per race to watch it. There must be every likelihood that they will do this, given this appears to be a stepping stone to making people pay to watch live racing on here. Then you will be making a fuss Duffy.

'We are aware that there have been some instances where customers may have been able to view races on Live Video without having a bet matched. Work was undertaken today to fix those problems.' ( customer disservices )

bfcm2 any other firm having such a long-necked-african-quadraped at its customers would be regarded as extraordinary.

Please allow us our own latest turkish at BF, by informing us when BF became aware of this 'problem', because as folk will know this state has pertained,certainly, ever since I have accessed your 'marvelous' LV product, except of course the 6 months dispute when you showed no RUK pics.

When bfcm2 you insist on evacuating on your clients please justify why you deliberately give no warning '. tia

hornshoe - I'm asking a china plate from our Help Desk to give you a Brussell Sprout on the dog and bone so you can have a proper Frank and Pat about it

Sorry the call was missed bfcm2. I wrecked my cranial neuron trying to think who's number that was.

No Barney Rubble - I can get them to call back if you are around and can answer?

OK,but I hope theyll upload the transcript,minus expletives,to share any info for all here, my typing speed is always a hindrance.

One Nation     18 Jul 12 20:47 
If they really want to they'll close the trading 'loophole' and demand you have a minimum £2 exposure per race to watch it. There must be every likelihood that they will do this, given this appears to be a stepping stone to making people pay to watch live racing on here. Then you will be making a fuss Duffy.


Unlikely... it would only effect me on atr races for starters and all i would do is trade out immediately as the race started , if it cost a few more pence so be it, but you might make 20p on the other hand!!, the bit about missing the race and it all being a bit much is plain wrong, it all takes seconds to do, once again this has whole issue is being made far far more complicated and awkward than it actually is.

In any case, trading out a £2 bet pre race isn't a loophole.....A minimum matched bet of GBP2 must be placed on the relevant ‘day of the race market’ via the exchange, or in a tote market in order to watch a particular horse race.

no mention of liability there

Had people not posted on here about how to exploit the loophole in the first place Betfair would probably had been non the wiser. No doubt either a moderator or BCM2 has read it on here and reported it.

Its no coincidence the loophole had worked for over a year,was then posted on here and was 'fixed' the day after being posted.


Moral of the story, better to be remain silent and thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

never seen it discussed on here ever, in fact i for one never even knew about it, i've always traded a £2 matched from the start...."loophole" is a funny term though, it makes it sound like it actually gained you something of substance

starfish - it is actually coincidence! Not grassed by me or moderators.

waste of space bet not matched pre race , then gone a furlong before feed goes live come on betfair give us a chance

Been working for over a year BCM2. Gets posted on here one day then its removed the next.

I make that at least a 365/1 coincidence !

carrot,
why didn't you get it matched pre race, not being funny but you only have to press a button to do it

starfish - well I can honestly tell you I didn't see it posted anywhere yesterday, nor did any of the admins working. If we could fix stuff in a day, I'd be getting things fixed far faster than they are now....

and when they close that loophole what next

duffy
18 Jul 12 14:40 Joined: 28 Mar 03 | Topic/replies: 6,739 | Blogger: duffy's blog
if youre on gruss just place a bet and level profit it out straight away pre race....may cost you tuppence...often it doesn't cost you anything.

You then posted this exactly 5 mins later all from this very thread

etfair Community Manager 2
18 Jul 12 14:49 Joined: 22 Nov 10 | Topic/replies: 2,431 | Blogger: Betfair Community Manager 2's blog
Wesdag - not a new policy, what I posted there has been the T&Cs for ages. It may be that there was some loophole or error that meant a matched bet could be avoided? I don't know. As for liquidity/ease of viewing, I can see your point totally - bot not really a debate I can get into the thick of....





But you never read anything about the loophole ? Its worked for over a year then its fixed within 24 hours of the loophole and yourself posting the above



Somebody's telling porkies....

26 races tonight do you really want to be placing 52 bets just to watch the racing

starfish - sorry, I don't see your point? That post by duffy was at 14.40 yesterday, mine was at 14.49 yesterday. The changes that happened were rolled out before the start of racing yesterday, so before either of those posts. Yes, I mention potential loopholes - but only because when I asked yesterday (in response to this thread popping up) what had happened, it became apparent that work had been undertaken to make sure that the Terms and Conditions for LV (ie relating to requiring a matched bet to view) were enforced.

Whats the big deal carrot its 26 trades that will take about 2 mins to do

Ok I'm not blaming you BCM2. I just found it a bit strange that as soon as people started posting ways around 
having to have a bet to view live video its was fixed quickly.

Its probably best if anyone has any other way around this they just shut up about it rather than posting it on here.

Quite right S&C.

starfish, sort it out before you post up erroneous info...as BCM2 states, i posted that after the changes happened, and the changes didn't even apply to what i put, but if you are now saying that betfair now know of this loophole....well what i put isn't a loophole....you're post makes no sense in the slightest.

I know you weren't - believe me starfish, I would rather have known before yesterday that this work had been done, as then we could have told people in advance before they stumbled upon it. That's the way I like to operate.

As far as I could see, any comments about how people were managing to view LV started yesterday, after we rolled out the work at our end.

If anyone has any advice on tax, PM me.....

I have to say this is a little bit of a non event.
yes things could be done better and yes paying PC etc perhaps should give access to LV etc, but placing a small bet pre off isnt a biggy and is consistent with the bookies, except you can even hedge it here.

Think ppl need to get things in perspective a bit. If its changed its a small change but still well within acceptability imo.

save your spears for when the LV actually doesnt work......later on

dusty - you've jinxed it now  . . . and I have golf to watch

dusty - if goes belly up because of you today, I will PM you some numbers and you can try to sort it out while banging your head against a wall/table/fist of your choice

the fix was put in place and then people started moaning about it.....and then people talked about the fact that you need to trade out a bet before which is simple.....think about it....if the change hadn't happened before the racing started then there wouldn't have been a thread about it in the first place ...would there

duffy - stop saying what I would say, people will accuse me of having multiple accounts

Duffy I cant be arsed going through all the lv threads on here but I do read most of them and have seen the loopholes mentioned a good few times previously.

You have moderators viewing these forums so its probably best that you keep any loophole to yourself.

You might think you're doing people a favour on here by posting them but most people aren't thick and know of them anyway. All you're doing in reality is highlighting everything for betfair who otherwise probably wouldn't even had thought twice about this.

dustybin     19 Jul 12 14:39 
I have to say this is a little bit of a non event.
yes things could be done better and yes paying PC etc perhaps should give access to LV etc, but placing a small bet pre off isnt a biggy and is consistent with the bookies, except you can even hedge it here.

Think ppl need to get things in perspective a bit. If its changed its a small change but still well within acceptability imo.

save your spears for when the LV actually doesnt work......later on

Nail on head.

starfiash

The "loophole" as you put it is on about the same "loophole" level as advising someone that if they drink plenty of water they will be healthier....but listen...keep it under your hat or they'll all be at it!!!

Terrible analogy. Very naive. Best of luck today....

BCM2, any reason why you don't have to place a matched bet on LV to watch any other sport?

I believe it is to do with the terms of the contract.

Contract with the suppliers??

Wasn't here yesterday but this with what they took of me in my my weekly taxation that masquerades as PC just illustrates that they don't want people who show loyalty and are winners and thus just try to hinder you as much as possible. Losers only need apply to this organisation should be the new mantra.

Betfair Community Manager 2 • July 19, 2012 2:41 PM BST
dusty - if goes belly up because of you today, I will PM you some numbers and you can try to sort it out while banging your head against a wall/table/fist of your choice

hmmmm...I wouldnt mind that in truth.....I dont think I'd be tempered by my position either and the language would get rather industrial. Wouldnt mind telling the people responsible what the users think of em. In fact addresses might be even better, I got some pretty industrial boots too

starfish and coffee,

You are correct. I have read and may have even mentioned the loophole myself, unawares at the time it was actually a loophole.

Of course he's correct and telling people to keep schtum about certain things is also correct.

the only thing that has been changed is sticking an unmatched bet on and then viewing...no-one spoke about that being allowed in the first place, i never used it for one thing....what i've spoke about is back and lay pre race and that is allowed...no problem...the loophole (which isn't a loophole) that i'm on about...you are allowed to do.!!!

Cheers guys although its obviously wasted on some people !

Duffy, the argument is the inconvenience of it all,if they see by your account that you bet in 90% of races in running and you have a substantial turnover why can't it be free to air instead of the whole rigmarole of backing and laying BEFORE a race you are going to be playing in anyway.

duffy     18 Jul 12 14:40 
if youre on gruss just place a bet and level profit it out straight away pre race....may cost you tuppence...often it doesn't cost you anything.


That is the post you've been referring to starfish.....that was a response to betfair shutting the unmatch bet allowing you to view the race with...completely different thing altogether....and you can still use my way.....how in gods name has that post to blame...it's not even the same thing and the change had already happened!!!

S&C seen this "loophole" mentioned many time one here, not that it was the forum that made me aware of it.

I just thought that it wasn't a problem to put in a bet and get it matched in-running - given that Betfair are the pioneers of betting in-running.

tomhunt - I've heard that argument from a number of customers, on threads and privately. I have passed those messages on. I cannot, obviously, promise anything - but if I do have anything to update, I will.

tom
I understand that but my argument is that if you have to take up a couple secs with a trade that may even make you a penny....so what!

Pie in ears!

ahh, that famous old saying , " pie in ears "

bcm2 , can anything be done for punters who just take sp, as these bets cant be cancelled

carrot - if you back at SP, you get to see the race don't you? But only from the off?

no as by the time it loads youve missed the start and at least a half a furlong to a furlong has gone which is no good in sprints

Nope, I can see that - let me raise that as well at this end

anyone get the bath pause at the end there ?

for a couple of secs, yes

Pause,start,stutter,stop,pause start....and to think they actually have the cheek to charge for this.

if we were supplied a reliable 'live 'feed on here i would pay a decent annual sum on here
and my turnover would also double in an instant but this product is so flawed.

every day there's a problem and most of the time it stinks. it's not just a technical glitch imo

it puts you out of stride and makes me defensive in some cases meaning my turnover drops

just doesn't add up to me.

wes/starfish/clouded - I've just come off a call where I have been outlining the views on here with regard to requiring a matched bet, no recognition to in-play trading, no recognition of amount bet annually etc etc. I need to pull together some thoughts and feedback - privately (ie not on a thread). If you are willing to help me, PM me the best e-mail address to contact you on, and I'll drop you a line. This obviously extends to others on this thread, although I'm ideally looking for no more than 6 to 8 to kick this off.

in a nutshell BCM2, people want to be able to set up in-running bets using the site (not an API) pre-race then they want to able to watch the live video of the race without it stuttering or cutting out, I think that covers it.

hi bcm , hope you well,

tbh i don't think the matched bet thing is really such an issue here

it's been up there for ages and everyone knows about it.


it's just the same old story with the constant issues on it

havnt' got much time now but i'll get back to you via email next couple of days

may have some ideas

shady - yes, I totally agree on that part. What I'm also trying to nail down is what people see as viable/acceptable/possible alternatives to having to match a bet a to view: should those who clearly trade be able to view for free? Should we look at turnover? Would you pay a subscription etc. Nothing is off limit - just an understanding I can't promise they will be brought into play, but they will be taken on and looked at. But easier for me to do off the forums, so if you want to get involved, PM your name and an e-mail address.

Clouded - that would be great, have a look at what I said to shady above. Drop me a PM with name/e-mail and I'll get in touch.

Would you pay a subscription?

Come on now BCM2 a funded account should suffice. Betfair will get more money in commission if they make it easier to view.More viewers more chance people will play etc its not rocket science

and if it has to be a matched bet at least make sure the product you're charging for works A1.

Message sent

Id like a candy floss machine...and a chin rest also do betfair do slippers?

i imagine the people who trade on here are doing it for much bigger amounts than the minimum £2 so should be able to watch imo, however i also imagine most of those who only trade are closing positions pre-race and are not using the live video service.

starfish - I've replied. But what I meant by subscription was that, instead of needing to bet to view a race, should we consider a subscription (ie per week, per month, per year) which would just let you watch every race? Not saying it can happen, but keen to gauge and then feed back.

dusty - monogramed dressing gown ok?

on a serious note Ive just noticed that bet365 have bolluxed up their LV
they have incorporated it into the website browser which makes it a right pain in the arris
ffs why wont be leave alone?

I suspect you wont take the blame for their LV too eh BCM2?
just thought Id add it to the mix tho as its topical

dusty - PM name/e-mail and I'll drop you a line and get your ideas (the serious ones, not the stars of Baywatch peeling grapes for you as you watch LV).

no chance of that working , betfair would have to employ a small army to deal with the rebates considering the amount of daily problems on the live feed

tbh bcm2 the circumstantial stuff is just that, I dont really mind having to have a bet (but if others want to come up with suggestions that make it easier then fine)
I think you know what I'd like and that is a consistent LV that works and is as Live as possible, something you are doing all you can to achieve already (or at least I hope so and you aint laughing at us all )

dusty - as if I'd do that

Absolutely DEAD AGAINST a subscription BCM2 - you provide it largely for free currently -why would I want to pay for it just because a few people are moaning about having to trade pre race. Surely you provide the 'service' so your customers get the best possible experience. I don't know where the word subscription came from but please bury it.

I pay thousands in commission every year to Betfair - I do not want to pay even more for LV.

Picture pausing like crazy at Bath

And if you want to drive me/us over to betquack that's the way to do it . Sorry to go on but am extremely anti subscription.

That's Betquack's pictures of course.

Yesterday I set up a second Betting Assistant on place markets with the "tick offset" active and set to 1. I still had to occasionally monitor it in case the market suddenly turned against me and the second part of the trade wasn't matched, so today I will also activate the "stop loss" to ensure the second part is matched. SO, one (2 depending on settings) simple clicks of my Betting Assistant and it's job done and I can watch the LV.

This obviously proves to everyone, (BCM, Duffy, and others) that yes, it is very easy (with Betting Assistant) to conform to the T&C's and watch the LV.

However, If you check my P/L below, multiply the amount of bets by 2 (back & Lay), then multiply by the amount of people that want to watch/play in-running using LV, then my question remains, What's the point?

BCM, I'm not adverse to paying for a service but what price would you put on the LV? Bearing in mind ATR pic's are free, RUK is £20/month (which I consider expensive but pay because the size, quality and reliability of the LV is overall very poor).

IMO most people who use the LV use it to try and play in-running on ATR tracks because their pic's are pitifully slow and impossible to compete with, BUT we are ALL still prone to be being picked off by the track/fast pic boys so the LV is no money spinner, it merely allows us to be marginally competitive.

BCM I'm certain you're a good guy and hope your efforts make the LV the envy of the betting industry, and FREE to your active customers

Market    Start time    Settled date    Profit/loss (£)
Horse Racing / Donc 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 21:00 19-Jul-12 21:05 0.02
Horse Racing / Leop 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 20:55 19-Jul-12 21:00 0.00
Horse Racing / Epsm 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 20:50 19-Jul-12 20:53 0.02
Horse Racing / Bath 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 20:40 19-Jul-12 20:43 0.02
Horse Racing / Donc 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 20:30 19-Jul-12 20:34 0.04
Horse Racing / Leop 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 20:25 19-Jul-12 20:29 0.00
Horse Racing / Epsm 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 20:20 19-Jul-12 20:23 0.00
Horse Racing / Bath 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 20:10 19-Jul-12 20:13 0.04
Horse Racing / Donc 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 19:55 19-Jul-12 19:58 0.02
Horse Racing / Leop 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 19:50 19-Jul-12 19:53 0.00
Horse Racing / Epsm 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 19:45 19-Jul-12 19:49 0.00
Horse Racing / Bath 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 19:35 19-Jul-12 19:38 0.00
Horse Racing / Donc 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 19:25 19-Jul-12 19:28 0.02
Horse Racing / Leop 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 19:20 19-Jul-12 19:25 0.00
Horse Racing / Epsm 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 19:15 19-Jul-12 19:18 0.00
Horse Racing / Bath 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 19:05 19-Jul-12 19:08 0.00
Horse Racing / Donc 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 18:50 19-Jul-12 18:56 0.02
Horse Racing / Leop 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 18:45 19-Jul-12 18:49 0.00
Horse Racing / Epsm 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 18:40 19-Jul-12 18:47 0.23
Horse Racing / Bath 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 18:30 19-Jul-12 18:33 0.06
Horse Racing / Leop 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 18:15 19-Jul-12 18:19 0.02
Horse Racing / Epsm 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 18:10 19-Jul-12 18:17 0.00
Horse Racing / Bath 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 18:00 19-Jul-12 18:03 0.04
Horse Racing / Brig 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 17:50 19-Jul-12 17:55 0.02
Horse Racing / Leop 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 17:45 19-Jul-12 17:51 0.00
Horse Racing / Bath 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 17:30 19-Jul-12 17:33 0.02
Horse Racing / Killar19thJul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 17:25 19-Jul-12 17:32 0.00
Horse Racing / Brig 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 17:15 19-Jul-12 17:23 0.00
Horse Racing / Ham 19th Jul  : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 17:00 19-Jul-12 17:03 0.02
Horse Racing / Killar19thJul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 16:55 19-Jul-12 17:03 0.02
Horse Racing / Brig 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 16:45 19-Jul-12 16:51 0.02
Horse Racing / Ham 19th Jul  : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 16:30 19-Jul-12 16:35 0.02
Horse Racing / Killar19thJul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 16:25 19-Jul-12 16:31 0.03
Horse Racing / Brig 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 16:15 19-Jul-12 16:21 0.00
Horse Racing / Ham 19th Jul  : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 16:00 19-Jul-12 16:04 0.02
Horse Racing / Killar19thJul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 15:55 19-Jul-12 16:01 0.02
Horse Racing / Brig 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 15:45 19-Jul-12 15:50 0.02
Horse Racing / Ham 19th Jul  : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 15:30 19-Jul-12 15:38 0.00
Horse Racing / Killar19thJul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 15:25 19-Jul-12 15:32 0.00
Horse Racing / Brig 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 15:15 19-Jul-12 15:21 0.02
Horse Racing / Ham 19th Jul  : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 15:00 19-Jul-12 15:03 0.02
Horse Racing / Killar19thJul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 14:55 19-Jul-12 14:59 0.00
Horse Racing / Brig 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 14:45 19-Jul-12 14:49 0.02
Horse Racing / Killar19thJul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 14:25 19-Jul-12 14:30 0.02
Horse Racing / Brig 19th Jul : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 14:15 19-Jul-12 14:19 0.00
Horse Racing / Ham 19th Jul  : To Be Placed 19-Jul-12 14:00 19-Jul-12 14:07 0.02

What we want is very simple and doesn't require, emails, letters, meetings, etc.

A reliable LV service for horseracing that is provided on EXACTLY the same terms as ALL the other sports on LV.

There we are. Done, and all in one sentence.