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Hello. I would like some advice please regarding possibly going to the small claims court regarding the non payment of a winning bet I had some four months ago.
The Firm in question is registered with the Isle Of Man Gambling Commission and is operating as a white label, I would imagine you can work out which Firm runs the white label. I have been advised to go to IBAS by the Isle Of Man GC but IBAS have said the Firm is not registered with them (this is despite them still being on their list of registered operators, even two months after I was told they were not registered by IBAS themselves). I have gone back to the Isle Of Man GC and told them this and they are now basically refusing to answer - obviously IBAS is the mediator here so I need to exhaust all avenues of mediation here before taking this further.
It has been an eye opener so far, has anyone else had dealings with the Isle Of Man GC please? I would appreciate any advice on where to go next etc..
Thank you for your help I hope.
The Firm in question is registered with the Isle Of Man Gambling Commission and is operating as a white label, I would imagine you can work out which Firm runs the white label. I have been advised to go to IBAS by the Isle Of Man GC but IBAS have said the Firm is not registered with them (this is despite them still being on their list of registered operators, even two months after I was told they were not registered by IBAS themselves). I have gone back to the Isle Of Man GC and told them this and they are now basically refusing to answer - obviously IBAS is the mediator here so I need to exhaust all avenues of mediation here before taking this further.
It has been an eye opener so far, has anyone else had dealings with the Isle Of Man GC please? I would appreciate any advice on where to go next etc..
Thank you for your help I hope.
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Just a quick bump, surely someone must have an experience please or does nobody on here manage to even get a bet on now apart from with Betfair!?!
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What was the bet?
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In running bet on Golf player on "without fav" market. Firm were running a book with the fav in running also - bet was placed around the 13th hole - Firm saying the market should not of been up to bet on and was left up by accident, they say the with market was fine (how does an in running trader not notice he has a without fav market up?). Basically welching on the bet.
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Price was 18/1, other firms were less but only by a few points - such as 14s and 12s. Bet was settled as a winner in full but not voided until 36 hours after it was settled as a winner, no e-mail notification sent at all of bet being voided.
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If the bet was settled as a winner surely that is an end of the
matter, issue a summons for non payment and I am sure you will be paid before the case comes to any court. |
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Dont give it up.....sounds to me you should be collecting, especially if the market was "live" and odds were changing.
If a trader was moving odds and the bet was taken you will get paid...imo |
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Thanks for the help. I need to know what the best way is to go about this really as the Firm are being very, very unhelpful and also the Isle Of Man Gambling Commission are very poor. IBAS have been very good so far.
Is there a step after IBAS? The Isle Of Man GC say the Firm have done nothing wrong but they only say in line with their rules, their is no analysis offered of the case - they are basically saying the Firm can cancel any bet they want without offering solid evidence as to why they are cancelling. |
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Dont give up!!! I had a right load of hassle getting a bet settled correctly with a high street bookmaker not so long ago. Twice they said the bet had been settled correctly when it had clearly not been. I didnt give up when a lot of others would of and then eventually admitted their mistake.
Paul Haigh reads these types of posts and he can probably offer you some advice. |
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How much are you claiming?
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Im unsure of what your next step should be, but there are many on here far more clued up than me on matters like this. Someone will add somthing to the thread soon, im sure quite a few chaps on here have had similar dealings.
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Not far off 2k
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That's the trouble with smaller firms like BI, the bet winning is sometimes the least of your worries, you have to get paid out as well. All the best jbbrfc, hope you get paid, sounds like they are trying it on imo...
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That is canny amount, surprised you got that amount on.
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I would write to the firm stating that you are giving them a 7 days to pay up or you will be making a claim via the IofM small claims court. You would have to assess whether the costs involved are worth it compared to how much you are claiming. I got paid by Laddies within hours of them getting the letter when they voided a perfectly reasonable bet but this was in a shop so I had the ticket as proof. It might be more difficult with an online bet.
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Thanks for taking the time to read this and comment. I am currently waiting confirmation from IBAS and the IOMGC as to whether IBAS can mediate here - there is a dispute over whether the white label site is covered by the registration of the Firm that powers it.
I am confident that IBAS will resolve this personally as the evidence is pretty clear to me but I wanted to know about the small claims court and if anyone had actually been down that path, I have been advised by other people who have had disputes with bookmakers but not ones with Isle Of Man Firms - I would of thought the Isle Of Man smalls claims court plays by the same rules as anyone in England though? |
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Dont give up!!! I had a right load of hassle getting a bet settled correctly with a high street bookmaker not so long ago. Twice they said the bet had been settled correctly when it had clearly not been. I didnt give up when a lot of others would of and then eventually admitted their mistake.
Paul Haigh reads these types of posts and he can probably offer you some advice. Provided you went to a public school, and are a member of White's. |
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Sir
It is clear from the evidence compiled that the wrong price for the market was published in error, 18/1 and not 8/15. This was clarified by other websites which published the correct price. The xxxxxxx terms and conditions state; “xxxxxxx reserves the right to cancel any bet made on an obviously "bad" line or a wager made after an event has started”. My investigation is complete and the company has acted in accordance with their terms and conditions. This matter has been dealt with appropriately by the operator and therefore I consider this now closed. What do you think to that? No proof has been provided that these other websites were 8/15 at all. |
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You posted earlier that at the time you got 18s 12s and 14s were available elswhere, can you prove it?
What were the scores of the leading players when you placed your bet, this is very relevant. |
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Yes I have provided a detailed explanation of how the scoring went from day one
I placed the bet after roughly 14 holes had been played and Stan James and Betfair were also betting on the same market - Stan James were 12/1 Ramsey and Betfair 14/1, to me 18/1 seemed a fair price. Dear Sir, could you please answer my question about why the market was on your website? I could maybe understand if you never had betting on the site for the outright champion but the fact is that you did and the 18/1 at the time I placed my bet was a fair price for me to bet on and for you to take. What do you mean by a "technical error"? Like I said before, to me it looks like you are just welching on a bet, I have said why I placed the bet and when I placed the bet. The reasons you are giving is very poor to me and make no sense at all. How you can say "obviously never updated" is beyond me as Fraser was 2 shots ahead of Ramsey when I placed my bet so 5/2 and18/1 seemed perfectly fair to me - like I have said Stan James and Betfair were 12/1 and14/1 respectively so 18/1 seems in line to me, would you disagree with that? Could you look at this again, I feel like I am being fobbed off. This is very, very, very poor and inept to me and I am sure most people would agree. Also, why did you void this bet 32 hours after you settled it as a winner please? Looks to me like the person who settled the normal champion market also settled the without fav market but then decided he had lost too much on the without fav market so decided to cancel the bets, send no notification to myself as the punter and just carry on as normal. I think you will find it is hard to disagree with that? |
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Yes i thought you had a good chance when you said you could get 14/1, 12/1 elsewhere. They claim it should of been 8/15 which is a hell of a difference!
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Ok where the hell do they get 8/15 from? Sounds like they are getting that price from a different market!
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[i]Whilst we apologise for the late cancellation of the bet the bet was placed on a market that was not in-running and was incorrectly displayed on the site.
After discussions with the Independent Bookmakers Service (http://www.iba.gb.com)we have established that the price on Richie Ramsey at 06:38 on 29/04/2012 in the Ballentines's Championship without the favourite was 8/15.[/i] Try the link for the IBS - it was suspended the day they sent that and still is, very professional |
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Looks to me now as if you are up a gum tree.
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If the price was 8/15 and they were so sure why did they void the bet and not offer to settle it at 8/15? You have to provide solid proof of this, you can't just say it was this and that. On another e-mail they say the market had been left up accidentally for 7 hours - yet they were betting in play on the with fav (with fav fav started off at around 1.02 and remained like that for the whole day I think).
Hardly the sharpest of traders. |
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So Fraser was 2 shots clear from Ramsey? Were the prices of 5/2 and 18/1 in the without fav market? In this case presumably there was a third golfer (the favourite) ahead of both of them?
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The only solid advice I can give you is not to bother with IBAS. They only rule on whether a bookmaker has settled a bet in accordance with their own rules and by the sound of it they will claim it's an error. Therefore IBAS will rule in their favour. Tell them you are going to take them to the Small Claims Court unless you receive full payment.
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You are in the right......DO NOT QUIT ON THIS
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Also don't be misled by IBAS "being good so far" - they will rule against you 1.01
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That is almost a certainty.
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Fair point yeasty, in all honesty this was a long time ago but you are right and I cannot remember in full, it was an in play bet - it was in the without fav market.
Remember this was settled in full and then reversed 36 hours later. They have consecutively said all bets placed on this market were cancelled but ignore the question when I ask for proof of this. Regarding the small claims court, surely just saying that doesn't mean instant payment? |
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nice at least to see a thread with one forumite trying to help another...even if it shouldnt have come to this in the first place.
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For information purposes, Wiesenberger was about 5 shots clear going into the fourth round.
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The thing I also want to know is how do you run a with fav market from the start of play yet fail to notice you have not suspended the without fav market?
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He was the fav and they ran an in play with the fav market - he was never in trouble I think, so they ran that all night yet still failed to notice the competitive market was taking bets? hmmmm
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Only reason I ask is that it would help make some sense as to why they're claiming palpable error. Still doesn't make a load of sense to me - I'm struggling to imagine a market where the leader is 5/2 and the player 2 shots off is 18/1 and on the flip side the bookies "correct" price is 8/15! For that to happen the 2 must have been a mile clear. Yet it's 5/2 the fav! Might be me being dense...long day.
Either way, best of luck. |
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Thanks areyoutalking to me. That makes a little more sense. Sounds like the 8/15 should have been the price for Fraser, not Ramsey in that case...
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No worries yeasty
jbbrfc....He was very short all night, as you say, never in trouble. Most firms would have seen money in the w/o market, have you tried to collate info from them? They may be able to provide you with the info that you require. Also, don't have too high an opinion of any trader, let alone those that work for these tin pot operations. |
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Yes i agree the 8/15 sounds like Fraser's price.
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Bookmakers are happy to encourage punters with a dispute to go to IBAS because they know that 'palpable error' still rules supreme in their eyes.
The ironic thing about that is that Kevin Pullein is one of the panel members and he constantly bangs on about the need to only bet when you believe you have spotted a pricing error. Sadly, all too often the only way to get paid in such circumstances is to pursue legal action and make it clear you have no intention of referring the dispute to IBAS. |