Very difficult quiz question for the old-timers

Easter Sun

Minster Sun

couldnt think of any but minsters son is a good one

there was Bustino who had that great duel with Grundy.

Refer my 19.10 post, after more thought and refreshment think the horse I was thinking of was Boldboy not Homeboy.

HOMEBOY WAS a Lady Beaverbrook - but the reason he was ridden by Bruce Raymond was - he was trained by Michael Jarvis.

The Goodwood race that stewarts refers  to was -

1977 Saturday July 30th - Firm

2:50 PTS Laurels Handicap 1m2f - £7,479

1.  HOMEBOY - M Jarvis - 4-8-10 - Bruce Raymond
2.  Sousa - 4-7-12 - Paul Cook
3.  Frankie - 4-9-0 - Eddie Hide

Dist: 2 lengths, One and a Half - 8 ran
SP: 14/1 (20's)- 6/1 - 14/1

--------------------

BOLDBOY - used to run in, and often win, the ABERNANT Stakes, at the Craven Meeting.

In fact - he won it in this year, 1977, aged 7 - at 6/4 Fav from 7/4

Thanks onlooker.  I really enjoy looking back at these results from years ago.  I was watching some of the great July Cups from the late 70's/early 80's on RUK earlier tonight.  What memories they brought back - the likes of Thatching, Moorestyle, Marwell, Habibti, Chief Singer and Sharpo.  Boldboy won the Abernant 4 times in 5 years in the 1970's.

On the Lady Beaverbrook 7 letter dabate, have a memory of dashing home form school in about 73 and seen her horse Zeb (Geoff Lewis riding?) win a Newmarket handicap on ITV. Seem to remember that the press were saying that was her first non 7 letter runner. Anyone have a form book from them to refresh my memory?

Strangely - Cannot find a horse listed named ZEB - from 1966 to 1979 -
and I am sure you would have left school by then.

Although the name does ring a bell, though.

Library closed now - Off  for my nightly Pint.

Will look again, later.

Zab maybe? Have April 73 at Newmarket in my head but worried now I could be losing the plot!

Try 'Zob' - wasn't he the last name on Rowan Atkinson's register on the original Secret Policeman's Ball

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiWJWLCoH2M&feature=related

Classic stuff

Zab was Lady B/Hern. He was 9th in Peleid's St Leger, having beaten him at Royal Ascot in the King George V Stakes. As a 5yo, he won the Henry II at Sandown, and was 2nd in the Ormonde at Chester.

One called ZAAB trained by HERN, could never understand why they
kept their military rank in civvy street, yours faithfully PRIVATE BAZZAR.

Here's one for you Cecil buffs, name the horse in the same ownership as Chalon & Dunbeath, that (I think) was unbeaten in 4 starts at 2 in the 70's, he was by a sire I don't remember having any other runnuers in the UK called TV Lark?

Super Asset??

Wow that was quick

Can you remember the d'Alessio horse that won about 6 races on the trot at 2, that was by Crimson Satan?

in 1986, 5 of the top 9 2yos were fillies. canyouname them

A question - Which long on odds horse cocked his jaw and lost a three horse race which resulted in a massive Tote dual forecast.  It caused an outcry by the bookies and as result I believe the calculation methodology was changed to take into account small fields?

Miesque, Minstrella & Forest Flower for starters

SA - was that Little Owl?

correct

Take an educated guess at Polonia & Milligram too?

Little Owl

WD correct - Little Owl, my memory was it was the dual forecast but it might have been the straight forecast calculation.  Nothing on the internet so its' only what we can remember but the bookies were not happy.

milligram correct. 1 to go

Zilzal -  Super Asset...what a blast from the past

Ravinella one?

Al Bahathri

not ravinella,think that was later

Was it Venture To Cognac who benefitted?
Can't remember whether it was Sandown or Kempton

not al bahathri. answer was sakura reiko

I should have got that Fidway...she beat Miesque in the Morny (I think it was)

Bill Elsey had one of the luckiest group winners - why?

Venture To Cognac - what a long career he had; from those initial novice hdle days when he was hailed as a future Gold Cup winner ,to his career levelling out and lasting to his Hunter Chase career in those halved orange and green Sherwood colours when he ran in Eliogarty's Foxhunters with the celebrated Tied Cottage also in the field.First had access to a video recorder on the first day of Chelt 83, think the tape works but can never be arrsed checking as I get as much as buzz from some of the other sports nowadays - just too much cack filling the wall to wall fixture list.

Wat the Don in the St James Palace ?

The Lockibge too, there is a pic in Pacemaker the month after of Jellaby unseating Taylor and on the rails you can see Joe Gormley amongth the crowd.

It was Don but not St James Palace

Aye it was Jellaby putting it's foot in a hole when would have been 1.01 on here. Whenever there is an old racing thread I always think of that race. The scars must be very deep.

Said the St James as I rememember a disq in that around the same time, Radetzky or Patris.

Can anyone find me a result/race details please?

It was a race around June 1981? at Ayr..Florida Son won the race

Don't remember that St James Palace but I do remember Radetsky

Ran in the Jack Hanson colours.

Which horse never won the Cheltenham Gold Cup but beat two horses that did win it, in a 3 horse race?

Think it was 76 RT - head spinning , on my second bottle of Colli Vincentini.

Was that a Charlie Hall RT ?

RT - Kildimo

Not 76 or Charlie Hall

Sorry, the 76 I was referring to was the St James disq

Kildimo is correct. What an horse. I put literally every penny I had in the world on it in the Sun Alliance.

Which Cheltenham Festival winner was whipped so mnay times the rider was banned for 3 months?

Jockey was Byrne I think and it was one of the novice hdles. Whipped it even after it had past the line.

Close but no cigar. Byrne's ban was for finishing 2nd

Drumlargan

(Not in the same race)

T.J. Ryan.

Drumlargan is correct Batista was Byrne's in the Triumph

SF - Drumlargan rings a bell with me as well

Some really good hard to get footage of races from 70's and onwards here:

https://www.youtube.com/user/bluemanc43/videos

W/D SF

SA - I spent an hour or so there the other day...he's definitely an enthusiast, and likely to be amongst us on here.

Thanks Bluemanc43

Which Cheltenham Gold Cup winner fell at the first in a Sandown handicap that was won by a future Cheltenham Gold Cup winner?

BHB should have a free site with an archive of all these - would cost a fraction of the the wasted money spent on some of the other halfwitted projects.

in 1986 name the peter easterby 2yo that won 3 in a row then was 2nd to midyan in its last race.

Desert Orchid fell at the first but I thought it was a Kempton hurdle?

Correct but not this answer. This was a chase and it had already won it's CGC.

On Tap was the Easterby 2-y-o beaten by Midyan ay York.

wd pauli

Someone mentioned Super Asset above, as being by TV Lark. He was actually by Sir Ivor, though his dam was by TV Lark, which is spooky. I think I remember Barry Hills having a horse by TV Lark (who was champion US turf horse in 1961, and champion sire in 1974).

I'll have to tell you because I'm off out now.

I think it was Little Owl and Burroughhill Lad won it.

Have a jolly evening all.

I've been racking my brains but I don't think I would have got it.  I know Little Owl sadly faded quickly.

Rollo - who won the Whitbread when Dawn Run fell at the first?

Did Dawn Run run in a Whitbread !

Beau Ranger

Whitbread Gold Label was it called? Aintree

Whitbread sponsored the Aintree race, then. Was actually there that day.

Devilish question.

I think I have a tape of that race.  Beau Ranger started at 40/1 as he had been off for a long time with an injury and just come back, maybe having one come back race?  Richard Pitman tipped on the BBC saying it was a ridiculous price given how good the horse was over 2½ miles and Aintree 3m would be no problem AND Dawn Run was not a reliable jumper.  He was proved right in this race and sadly later in the year when they went for the French hurdle with her.

I thought Dessie was the jolly that day?

I think you might be right SF

Did both Dawn Run & Dessie both fall at the first in that race?
Different years of course

I've changede my mind...I'm back with Dawn Run as Dessie was a few years later

When The Mighty Mac moved from from John Edwards to Michael Dickinsons; what other chaser in the same ownership moved at the same time and likewise showed immediate improvement?

Navel - I am leading you up the garden path I think. I got my Whitbreads muddled up - I knew that Dawn Run fell at the first but got my courses muddled up.   Still ablood y good question though!

Would have been around 1982 VL...I'll guess at W Six Times?

Bregawn?

Began with a P - not a superstar.

Political Pop?

Sf - I think that's it squire

Not sure what question you guys are trying to answer, but the one I am on is which CGC winner fell at the first in a Sandown Hcap that was won by a subsequent CGC winner. The original poster has posted his solution but he does not seem sure.

Planetman - if I remember rightly them at harewood turned him into a front runner, as with TMM. A sort of precedent for Pipe maybe. Polital Pop brings back memories - saw him win his first chase at Southwell with Earnshaw aboard. Bradley rode a gambled on Jummy Fitz horse called Tunnel Master, Phil Tuck pulled up another Jimmey Fitz runner called Wilton's First.

yahoo won it when dessie fell

My question had nothing to do with the Whitbread.

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/15472/lot/169/

Not sure anyone said it did Rollo - though a question about Gold Cup winners and Sandown Handicaps kind of lends itself in that direction doesn't it.

Soft-Pawn
14 Jul 12 18:13
Joined:
08 Jul 12
| Topic/replies: 26 | Blogger: Soft-Pawn's blog
Can you remember the d'Alessio horse that won about 6 races on the trot at 2, that was by Crimson Satan?


I've just checked this, sorry he was by an American stallion called Chieftain. Funny how your memory plays tricks on you

Re the Little Owl forecast.

At that time the bookies had their own Straight Forecast chart which they had worked out to prevent them getting caught out by large tote dividends.

As usual when bookies came up with something, it made any forecasts involving shorter priced horses so poor that it was hardly worth betting on, while the chart was also set to pay very large dividends in the unlikely event of massive priced horses, that nobody would possibly bet, finishing first and second.

In that 3 horse race, Little Owl went off unreasonably short, while the two others were priced away above what they should have been.

I believe Little Owl pulled up early on and the forecast, which had been bet in quite a few shops, payed out a 3 figure sum.

Naturally the poor bookies cried "Foul" and the Jockey Club had an investigation but could find no wrongdoing.

This was the end of the Chart Forecast and the beginning of the more closely controlled Computer Straight Forecast (CSF) where the bookies had a "scientific formula" to work out the forecast, or as the punters used to say "They worked out what the forecast should be and then halved it"

The Little Owl race was the 3 runner Fulwell Chase at Kempton.  Little Owl was 4-11 fav and was pulled up leaving Venture To Cognac to win by a distance from Great Dean.

Mark Coton's account:-

"The 1982 Fulwell Chase at Kempton Park appeared
a mundane contest. True, the Gold Cup winner
Little Owl was in attendance but he faced only
two rivals in Venture To Cognac and Great Dean.

"Venture To Cognac had some useful form to his
credit but had become injury-prone and was
considered to need the run. As for Great Dean,
he had been pulled up at lowly Fontwell and
needed a miracle if he was to win such
a valuable prize.

"Little Owl was sent off the 4-11 favourite,
Venture To Cognac 5-2 with Great Dean appearing
for all the world a lost cause at 66-1.

"As far as winning the race was concerned,
Great Dean was virtually friendless.
On the course and in the betting shops it was
only the odd `just-for-fun' merchant and
habitues of the `outsider-of-three' system who
gave him even a moment's consideration.

"Or so it seemed. But dotted about the country
were a handful of shrewd punters who had spotted
the chance to make a killing on the race.
A chance, that's all. Those shrewdies didn't
_expect_ to pickup but knew exceptional value
when they saw it.

"And what a killing! Not only were these punters
expecting to receive odds of around 150-1 on
their bet, they were also gleefully awaiting
the chance to make fools of the big bookmakers.

"For once, the bookmakers had made a `rick' and
a mighty serious one at that.

"The mistake was in the format for the then
relatively new Computerised Straight Forecast
(CSF), which allowed for inflated dividends should
a long-priced outsider make the frame in a small
field.

"The Fulwell Chase offered an ideal chance to
exploit this loophole. All it needed was for
Little Owl to fail to complete the course (as
he had done at Cheltenham on his previous start)
and this would enable Venture To Cognac to win
with Great Dean hopefully putting in a clear round
to come second.

"The race went entirely to script for these
backers. Little Owl leading and seemingly
going well, swerved and was pulled up by
jockey and part-owner Jim Wilson at the 10th.

"This left Venture To Cognac clear of the already
tailed-off Great Dean. The former sauntered round
to win by a distance and Great Dean, with forecast
backers holding their breath, completed in his own
time to earn a place in the history books.

"Little Owl's bit had reportedly slipped, but
the bookmakers were not happy, especially when
they realised the extent of their liabilities.

"Payment was held back while BOLA and the racing
authorities carried out an investigation into
the race. No evidence of any misdemeanour was
produced and the bookmakers, suitably chastened,
paid out.

"They also called in their computer people to
change the format of the CSF to avoid such inflated
dividends in small fields in the future, and
the result was what is disingenuously referred
to as the `Harmonic formula' for producing CSF
dividends. Today, if Venture To Cognac were to
beat Great Dean in identical circumstances, backers
would receive odds of only 15-1.

"This was a blatant over-correction and the few
punters who were on were crying foul after
after the 1989 Eclipse in which Nashwan at 2-5
beat 200-1 shot Opening Verse. Those that had
the combination were dismayed to receive odds
of only 24-1 (the Tote paid over 50% better at
38-1), which provides a fine indication of
the high level of profit bookmakers build into
the CSF."

...and back to TV Lark. Barry Hills trained TV Sunday (by TV Lark), who was 3rd, as a 3yo, to Girandole and Kambalda in the 1975 Goodwood Cup over 2m5f. He went off 4/1, with Girandole 7/2, and carried 7-10 vs Girandole's 9-0.

these bookies chaps dont like things that are not in their favour